Long Time No Talk

This episode is a direct continuation of Ep. 35.  What was Eve’s thought process when hearing the serpent’s claims? We explore what might have been running through her mind based on her interpretation the fruit was “to be desired to make one wise.”

Why did Eve eat the fruit? Was this a special tree?

From Eve’s interpretation of which was formulated by the serpent’s words, ideologies and beliefs branched forth.  Concepts fleshed out include power, natural and supernatural.

We return and conclude the capabilities demonstrated by Eve by her response to the serpent.

"What makes man, man?"  This question facilitates a discourse on the nature of man, which is a basis for foundational thought.   The spring board for understanding the nature of man is the examination of Adam and Eve.  "Did they have the capability to deliberate before eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil?"  The significance of the occasion recording in the first few chapters of Genesis is addressed.

These abbreviated accounts provide a glimpse into a completely different structure, form and existence; which is the key to a deeper level of understanding.  

Is choice the initiator for deliberation?

We take both Eve's internal and external processes following the serpent's claim and place them under a microscope to extrapolate Eve's capacities. Eve's words demonstrated her capacity to do what? Contrary to popular belief, words are important.

Eve’s words demonstrated her abilities that are detailed.

We also explore how the garden of Eden might be like. 

Highest Form of Human Connection: Intimacy

These forms are hierarchical and of a spectrum in nature.

Intimacy has been reformed into Romantic relationship.

Marriage then is the highest form of Intimacy.

What if there was a murderer  and he had an intimate relationship with another person who knew everything he had done and he told her of everything that occurred and she accepted him completely, without restraint, and supported him in the continuation of his behavior and without any change.

Would this intimacy be good?

So this intimacy cannot be the highest form.

So thus intimacy couldn't be the intent of creation. Intimacy is an effect.

Reveal who He is.

The more you know of someone, the more that you put his thoughts, actions, behaviors, intents, motives, relationships, under the microscope the more it reveals who He is. And we are amazed, wonder, and try to understand the character and qualities of the someone.

Indirectly the serpent is implying "how do you know?" 

Man's eyes were not opened, man did not have awareness because man was not testing the words of God.

In the beginning he blatantly, with reservations or restraint accepted God's word as "gospel truth."

 Man's eyes were not opened, man was not aware because he did not TEST, he did not CORROBORATE the words of God.

He was BLINDLY ABIDING by His word.

When the serpent approached  Eve, he is indirectly saying "what do you know?" " how do you know this is true. "

KNOWLEDGE can only occur when it is tested.

2 Forms of man: Autonomous -  Submissive.

Submissive cannot "Know" anything. because he/she DEFERS to another. 

Autonomy - know for MYSELF.

The serpent was inferring - you are the ruler of yourself - you have the power to test the word of God. To see If what He said was right or wrong.

If you do not do this, you are moving along BLINDLY. How do you know what is truth? You know it by TESTING it.

So then Adam & Eve didn't KNOW anything. They didn't KNOW good & evil. They didn't KNOW right & wrong. 

They only "possessed" what they were told. 

They "gained" KNOWLEDGE, good & evil when they TESTED it. The eating of the fruit was testing God 's word

 which was deteriorated into a claim by the serpent

When they tested God's word, they no longer needed God to tell them good and evil, 

They knew it for themselves. They knew it by themselves. They knew of their own.

How - they felt it. Th emotional experience was and IS the proof of what is good and what is evil.

That is why emotions are so dangerous because they are the device we use to differentiate good and evil.

In this moment - MAN became PURVEYORS of TRUTH.

Of course we see man obeying God, but in practically every instance beyond that we see man taking control of his own life, as sharing the control with God.  The theory is correct but the practice is formulated by the external model. How can we see this. By taking look at the structure of Jesus' life. How many people's lives- the way He lived, where He stayed, what He did with His life looks like other people lives.

Larry's previous talk about a debate between an atheist and a theist is the impetus to broach the subject of foundational thought.  (The episode elaborating foundational thought as well as other levels of thought are forthcoming.)  

We revisit choice, particularly the relationship between choice and action with the notion that these two activities trigger thought and deliberation.  These ideas lead us to the theme we will be exploring in more detail over a few episodes, "What were Adam and Eve before they ate the fruit and afterwards?"

We end up with the thought, "What makes man, man?"

We begin by revisiting a past discussion of whether Adam and Eve were acting without thought or deliberation, prior to the appearance of the serpent.  In other words, were they going through the motions automatically which then changes after the eating of the fruit signified by the description, "their eyes were opened."

We discuss why exploring these concepts might be important, which also leads us to wonder, "Why did God create us in the first place?"

Larry introduces us to the notion of moral culpability.

Jason shares his realization that while its easy and natural to move forward, to jump from one topic to the next, what is missing is a thorough understanding and examination.  Without these two activities, what we engage in is more accurately described as banter.

So before we continue, the need to revisit previous discussions with a closer eye is detailed. 

"Why is the account of creation and the garden of Eden so important?"

We explore the significance of origins, particularly effective plot devices utilized within developed story lines.

(Opening theme created by CGEffex. Licensed by attribution license.  {https://freesound.org/people/CGEffex/sounds/89595/}

Closing theme created by SRO. Licensed by attribution license. { http://freemusicarchive.org/music/Sro})

The idea of a series entitled "Scratching Below the Surface" that would encompass a collection of talks is raised.

We celebrate Rewell and Levi's birthday and have them share their thoughts for their upcoming year, also Larry shares his thoughts for his upcoming year as well.

We discuss the form and configuration of our group talks and why it carries meaning for each of us.

We take a brief moment to absorb and digest the recent conversations and to preview future discussions, particularly the unpacking of desire and reasoning. (Desire and reason were tabled and postponed for later episodes because other more pertinent conversations needed to be fleshed out prior to advancing forward as a foundation for future discussions.)

The concept of striving towards God is briefly detailed.  Larry refers to the seven churches and the notion of overcoming.

We continue right off from the last episode about how Eve's desires overran her other processes.  The concept of desire and reasoning are fleshed out more thoroughly.  The correlation of choice along with the notion of "good" are detailed.  Particularly how the nature of good expressed itself in the garden.

The notion of good is divided into two distinct forms and examined: "good for me" versus "good by nature."