Loosening Up: The KA-EMDR® Podcast

You understand where your patterns come from. You’ve talked about your past and gained insight into your trauma. So why do the same emotional reactions, relationship struggles, and protective responses keep showing up?

In this episode of Loosening Up: The KA-EMDR Podcast®, hosts Danielle Ciccone and Michele Topel welcome Ashley Vande Slunt, of Hidden Trails Therapy in Portland, OR, to explore Ketamine Assisted EMDR Therapy as a healing modality to break through this stuck point.

Drawing on her work with EMDR, somatic therapy, parts work, and psilocybin-assisted therapy, Ashley shares her perspective on integrating low-dose ketamine with EMDR trauma reprocessing. Together, they discuss how this approach may help clients connect with difficult emotions, approach painful experiences with greater openness, and work with protective parts that keep familiar survival patterns in place.

The conversation explores the importance of therapeutic connection, emotional safety, and dual awareness, staying connected to the present while processing experiences from the past. Ashley also shares how feeling supported by an attuned therapist during her own KA-EMDR® training experience helped her revisit a relational rupture from a previous psychedelic experience.

Topics include:

• Why insight into trauma doesn’t always change automatic emotional and bodily responses.
• How low-dose ketamine may support EMDR reprocessing when clients feel stuck.
• Working with protective parts through an Internal Family Systems (IFS)–informed perspective.
• The role of therapist attunement, attachment, and connection in trauma therapy.
• Differences between ketamine-assisted EMDR, higher-dose ketamine experiences, and psilocybin-assisted therapy.
• Why the intensity of a psychedelic experience does not necessarily correlate with the depth of therapeutic change.
• Supporting client agency and choice throughout trauma processing.

Whether you’re an EMDR therapist, a clinician exploring ketamine-assisted psychotherapy (KAP), or someone interested in trauma healing, this episode offers a thoughtful look at how the medicine, the therapy, and the therapeutic relationship can work together.

Learn More About Our Guest:
Ashley Vande Slunt, LMFT
Licensed in Oregon and Colorado
https://www.hiddentrailstherapy.com/
Email: [email protected]
Phone: (971) 271-1875

Learn More About Us:
Ketamine Assisted EMDR Therapy Institute:
https://www.ketamineassistedemdr.com

Our published, peer-reviewed research article:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/41186022/

KA-EMDR® Training:
https://www.ketamineassistedemdr.com/training

KA-EMDR® Therapist Directory:
https://www.ketamineassistedemdr.com/directory

Email: [email protected]

Ketamine Assisted EMDR Therapy: "A Superhighway to the Source"

Combining Ketamine and EMDR Through a Therapist’s Eyes

What happens when you understand your past, but still carry it in the way you react, relate, and see yourself?

In this episode of Loosening Up: The KA-EMDR® Podcast, Danielle Ciccone and Michele Topel welcome Lida Lisowe, an EMDR therapist and consultant who brings both personal and clinical perspectives to integrating low-dose ketamine within EMDR therapy.

She shares how her own work using the KA-EMDR® protocol helped her revisit longstanding struggles and experience a sense of integration she describes as “coming home” to herself.

From the therapist’s chair, Lida reflects on the changes she has noticed in clients navigating developmental trauma, deeply held beliefs of not being enough, and protective patterns that can make reprocessing difficult.

Together, they explore the difference between intellectually understanding something and experiencing that understanding more fully in the body, and how those shifts can show up in relationships and everyday life.

The conversation also explores clinical decision-making, collaboration with medical prescribers, and the value of a therapist’s calm, attuned presence.

At its heart is a question familiar to many EMDR therapists: What becomes possible when we trust the client’s capacity for healing while providing the support that helps it unfold?

Learn More About Our Guest:
Lida Lisowe, LCMHC
Licensed in North Carolina
https://www.lidalisowe.com/
Email: [email protected]
Phone: (919) 272-3434

Learn More About Us:
Ketamine Assisted EMDR Therapy Institute:
https://www.ketamineassistedemdr.com

Our published, peer-reviewed research article:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/41186022/

KA-EMDR® Training:
https://www.ketamineassistedemdr.com/training

KA-EMDR® Therapist Directory:
https://www.ketamineassistedemdr.com/directory

Email: [email protected]

What happens when two longtime EMDR therapists bring Ketamine Assisted EMDR Therapy into a group practice built around EMDR?

In Episode 12 of Loosening Up: The KA-EMDR® Podcast, Danielle Ciccone and Michele Topel talk with Julie McAllister and Deana Charter, co-founders of EMDR Transformations Counseling in Gilbert, Arizona. Julie and Deana share what drew them to the KA-EMDR® approach and what they’ve noticed while working with clients who had felt stuck in EMDR therapy.

Julie and Deana reflect on the changes they’ve observed since introducing the KA-EMDR® approach to their clients. They describe people becoming able to engage with material that had previously felt out of reach, make connections across different experiences, and move through stuck points with greater ease. They also share how rewarding it has been to see clients carry those shifts into their lives outside the therapy room.

Julie and Deana also share what surprised them when they experienced the KA-EMDR® approach for themselves. Deana describes a powerful session that brought up feelings connected to her earliest experiences. Julie’s session felt less conclusive at first, but she noticed a meaningful shift over the following days. Their experiences offer two different pictures of what processing can look like.

Throughout the conversation, Julie and Deana return to the reason they pursued this work in the first place: they wanted more options for people who were doing the work in therapy but still felt stuck. Hearing how they’ve brought the KA-EMDR® approach into their practice, and what they’re noticing with clients, makes this an encouraging conversation for clinicians who share that question.

More About Our Guests:

Julie McAllister, LPC & Deana Charter, LPC
EMDR Transformations Counseling in Gilbert, AZ
Email: [email protected]
Phone: (480) 550-8340
https://emdrtransformationscounseling.com/

Learn More About Us:
Ketamine Assisted EMDR Therapy Institute:
https://www.ketamineassistedemdr.com

Our published, peer-reviewed research article:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/41186022/

KA-EMDR® Training:
https://www.ketamineassistedemdr.com/training

KA-EMDR® Therapist Directory:
https://www.ketamineassistedemdr.com/directory

Email: [email protected]

In Episode 11 of Loosening Up: The KA-EMDR® Podcast, Danielle Ciccone and Michele Topel sit down with EMDR therapist and consultant Megan Osborne to talk about her journey into the KA-EMDR® method, and what she began noticing when she incorporated low-dose ketamine into her work with clients who had repeatedly felt “stuck” in EMDR reprocessing.

After 20 years in private practice, Megan found herself encountering clients who were well prepared for EMDR therapy but continued to hit what she describes as a “wall.” Despite thoughtful preparation, resourcing, parts work, and previous reprocessing, there were places some clients simply could not seem to access or move through. Her search for another way to support these clients eventually led her to the KA-EMDR® method.

Megan shares what she began observing clinically, including greater ease and flow during reprocessing, an increased ability to approach previously overwhelming material, and moments of meaningful change in clients who had struggled to move through certain targets in the past.

Danielle, Michele, and Megan also explore an important distinction: low-dose ketamine isn’t a way to bypass difficult material or eliminate the need for preparation. Instead, they discuss how it may help make previously unbearable material more bearable, while preserving the essential role of the therapeutic relationship, careful case conceptualization, and the foundational principles of EMDR therapy.

Megan also reflects on her own experiences participating in KA-EMDR® experiential trainings and how experiencing the process firsthand changed her understanding of what her clients may encounter.

The conversation touches on the AIP model, memory reconsolidation, prediction error, interweaves, and the importance of thoughtful case conceptualization in this work.

For EMDR therapists who know the experience of doing “all the things” and still watching a client struggle to move through certain material, this episode offers a thoughtful conversation about what may become possible when another tool is carefully and intentionally added to the process.

More About Our Guest:
Dr. Megan Osborne, PhD, LCPC
Licensed in Idaho
Email: [email protected]
Phone: 208-734-0022
https://www.emdrofidaho.com/

Learn More About Us:
Ketamine Assisted EMDR Therapy Institute:
https://www.ketamineassistedemdr.com

Our published, peer-reviewed research article:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/41186022/

KA-EMDR® Training:
https://www.ketamineassistedemdr.com/training

KA-EMDR® Therapist Directory:
https://www.ketamineassistedemdr.com/directory

Email: [email protected]

In this episode of Loosening Up: The KA-EMDR® Podcast, Danielle Ciccone sits down with trauma therapist Cheryl Moore to discuss her experience integrating Ketamine Assisted EMDR Therapy into clinical practice.

Together they explore why Cheryl was drawn to this approach after training in ketamine-assisted psychotherapy, how low-dose ketamine can help clients stay engaged during EMDR reprocessing, and why she believes KA-EMDR® offers a more targeted and tolerable way to treat complex trauma.

Cheryl also shares her own transformative experience during our live experiential training, discusses how KA-EMDR® is changing the way she works with clients, and tells the inspiring story of a client who experienced remarkable healing after years of feeling stuck.

Whether you're an EMDR therapist, a mental health professional interested in psychedelic-assisted therapy, or simply curious about innovative approaches to trauma treatment, this conversation offers valuable clinical insights and real-world perspectives on the potential of Ketamine Assisted EMDR Therapy.

Topics discussed include:
**Why experienced EMDR therapists are drawn to Ketamine Assisted EMDR Therapy
**The differences between traditional ketamine-assisted psychotherapy and KA-EMDR®
**Using low-dose ketamine to support trauma reprocessing
**Increasing the window of tolerance during EMDR
**Working with complex trauma and deeply held negative beliefs
**The role of experiential training in learning KA-EMDR®
**A powerful client transformation and clinical outcomes

More About Our Guest:
Cheryl Moore, LMHC
Licensed in Iowa
Email: [email protected]
Phone: 515-240-1910
https://www.moorelifecc.com/

Learn More About Us:

Ketamine Assisted EMDR Therapy Institute:
https://www.ketamineassistedemdr.com

Our published, peer-reviewed research article:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/41186022/

KA-EMDR® Training:
https://www.ketamineassistedemdr.com/training

KA-EMDR® Therapist Directory:
https://www.ketamineassistedemdr.com/directory

Email: [email protected]

This episode offers an inside look at what's next for KA-EMDR™.

Danielle Ciccone and Michele Topel reflect on two years of collaboration and a year and a half of training, consulting with, and learning alongside clinicians from around the world. Through hundreds of conversations, experiential trainings, and consultation sessions, they've gained valuable insight into where clinicians thrive, where they tend to get stuck, and what concepts deserve a deeper exploration. Those experiences ultimately inspired their newest course, Optimizing KA-EMDR™: Refining Case Conceptualization and Reprocessing.

They provide updates on the continued growth of the Ketamine Assisted EMDR Therapy Institute, reflect on training nearly 500 clinicians, discuss preparations for their upcoming EMDRIA conference presentation, and share their vision for the future of KA-EMDR™.

Whether you're already practicing KA-EMDR™, have taken one of our trainings, or are simply curious about integrating low-dose ketamine with EMDR therapy, this episode offers a candid look at the ideas, experiences, and lessons that continue to shape our work and the future of the Institute.

Learn More: 

Ketamine Assisted EMDR Therapy Institute: 
https://www.ketamineassistedemdr.com

Our published, peer-reviewed research article:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/41186022/

KA-EMDR™ Training:
https://www.ketamineassistedemdr.com/training

KA-EMDR™ Consultation:
https://www.ketamineassistedemdr.com/consultation

KA-EMDR™ Therapist Directory:
https://www.ketamineassistedemdr.com/directory

Email: [email protected]

In this episode of Loosening Up: The KA-EMDR™ Podcast, Danielle Ciccone and Michele Topel sit down with psychologist Dr. Dana Girard to discuss her journey from traditional psychedelic-assisted psychotherapy to KA-EMDR™. After completing the Ketamine Assisted EMDR Therapy Institute's introductory course, experiential training, and consultation group, Dana shares how low-dose ketamine combined with EMDR opened the door to a deeply meaningful personal healing experience that continues to shape her work today.

Together, they explore the differences between psychedelic and psycholytic ketamine experiences, the unique role of EMDR in facilitating transformational change, and why maintaining engagement, dual awareness, and therapist attunement can be so powerful.

Dana also shares a moving account of her own KA-EMDR™ experience, highlighting how unexpected insights, symbolic imagery, and emotional processing led to lasting shifts in her relationship with herself and her father.

Whether you're curious about KA-EMDR™, considering integrating it into your practice, or simply interested in the intersection of ketamine, EMDR, and personal transformation, this episode offers a thoughtful and inspiring perspective.

Key Topics:

• Psycholytic vs. psychedelic ketamine experiences
• The role of dual awareness in KA-EMDR™
• Why experiential learning matters for clinicians
• How low-dose ketamine can enhance EMDR processing
• Personal transformation, integration, and lasting change
• Bringing KA-EMDR™ into clinical practice

About Our Guest:

Dr. Dana Girard, PsyD

Licensed in California and Oregon

https://drdanagirard.com/

[email protected]

(650) 889-8765

Learn More: 

Ketamine Assisted EMDR Therapy Institute: 

https://www.ketamineassistedemdr.com

Our published, peer-reviewed research article:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/41186022/

KA-EMDR™ Training:
https://www.ketamineassistedemdr.com/training

KA-EMDR™ Consultation:
https://www.ketamineassistedemdr.com/consultation

KA-EMDR™ Therapist Directory:
https://www.ketamineassistedemdr.com/directory

Email: [email protected]

In this episode of Loosening Up: The KA-EMDR™ Podcast, Danielle Ciccone interviews Ashley Hartman, a trauma therapist and yoga teacher specializing in complex trauma, attachment focused healing, EMDR, IFS, somatic therapies, and Ketamine Assisted EMDR Therapy.

Ashley shares her personal journey into psychedelic-assisted healing, what drew her to KA-EMDR™, and why she describes the experience as both gentle and powerful. Together, Danielle and Ashley explore how low-dose ketamine may help clients access difficult material without becoming overwhelmed, creating opportunities for deeper processing, increased self-compassion, and meaningful transformation.

They discuss attachment wounds, protective parts, witness consciousness, embodied healing, and the unique ways KA-EMDR™ can help clients who have felt stuck despite years of therapy. Ashley also shares what she has observed in her own clients, including increased access to emotional material, greater agency, and shifts that continue well beyond the therapy session.

Memorable themes from this conversation:

• "Gentle but powerful."
• Healing does not require losing control.
• Protective parts are not the problem. They are trying to help.
• Clients are not broken; their systems are working exactly as designed.
• Transformation occurs when emotional learning shifts, not just when insight is gained.
• The client is ultimately the medicine they have been waiting for.

Whether you're a therapist interested in integrating ketamine with EMDR therapy or someone curious about innovative approaches to trauma treatment, this conversation offers an inspiring look at what becomes possible when healing feels both gentle and powerful.

About Our Guest:

Ashley Hartman, LCSW, PMH-C

Licensed in Colorado and Illinois

https://www.the-sacred-becoming.com/

[email protected]

(708) 480-2016

Learn More: 

Ketamine Assisted EMDR Therapy Institute: 

https://www.ketamineassistedemdr.com

Our published, peer-reviewed research article:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/41186022/

KA-EMDR™ Training:
https://www.ketamineassistedemdr.com/training

KA-EMDR™ Consultation:
https://www.ketamineassistedemdr.com/consultation

KA-EMDR™ Therapist Directory:
https://www.ketamineassistedemdr.com/directory

Email: [email protected]

In this episode, Danielle Ciccone and Michele Topel sit down with therapist and Army veteran Sasha Flores, LCSW to explore her experience integrating Ketamine Assisted EMDR Therapy into her work with complex trauma.

Sasha shares how her own healing journey led her to seek approaches beyond standard EMDR after discovering that parts of her system continued to block access to deeper processing. She discusses how low-dose ketamine combined with EMDR created a sense of safety and nervous system protection that finally allowed difficult material to be fully experienced and processed.

Together, they discuss:
*Why preparation and stabilization still matter in KA-EMDR™
*How low-dose ketamine may make overwhelming material more tolerable
*The importance of relational safety and co-regulation in trauma healing
*Working with military veterans, first responders, and complex PTSD
*Why therapists doing their own healing work matters
*The role of consultation and collaboration with medical providers
*How clients can begin accessing joy, playfulness, and connection after years of survival

This conversation offers an honest and deeply human look at the transformational potential of KA-EMDR™ when used thoughtfully, relationally, and with clinical intention.

About Our Guest:
Sasha Flores, LCSW, LCSW-S, SWICL
Licensed in Texas, Oregon, Washington, and Colorado
https://www.thekindmindcounseling.com/
[email protected]
(361) 202-5238

Learn More:

Ketamine Assisted EMDR Therapy Institute:
https://www.ketamineassistedemdr.com

Our published, peer-reviewed research article:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/41186...

KA-EMDR™ Training:
https://www.ketamineassistedemdr.com/...

KA-EMDR™ Therapist Directory:
https://www.ketamineassistedemdr.com/...

In this episode of Loosening Up: The KA-EMDR™ Podcast, Danielle Ciccone sits down with Jessica Chacon, an integrative therapist based in Colorado, to explore how Ketamine Assisted EMDR Therapy is helping clients get to the root of trauma more quickly and effectively.

Jessica shares how she integrates EMDR therapy with low-dose ketamine (psycholytic dosing) to support deeper processing, reduce defensiveness, and accelerate access to core emotional memories. Together, they discuss why this approach can create a powerful middle space between traditional talk therapy and psychedelic experiences—making healing both more effective and more accessible.

You’ll hear real-world clinical insights on how KA-EMDR™ can support clients struggling with trauma, PTSD, anxiety, depression, grief, and substance use, as well as how this model may help clients move beyond feeling stuck in therapy.

They also explore:

• How low-dose ketamine enhances EMDR reprocessing
• Why clients can reach the root of issues in fewer sessions
• The role of preparation, pacing, and clinical judgment
• Why this approach may reduce long-term therapy dependence while increasing transformational outcomes

Whether you’re a therapist curious about integrating ketamine with EMDR, or someone exploring innovative trauma treatments for yourself, this conversation offers both practical guidance and a deeper understanding of how real change happens.

About Our Guest:
Jessica Chacon, LPC
Licensed in Colorado

https://www.sweetgrasstherapeutics.com/

[email protected]
(720) 695-1372


Learn More:

Ketamine Assisted EMDR Therapy Institute:
https://www.ketamineassistedemdr.com

Our published, peer-reviewed research article:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/41186022/

KA-EMDR™ Training:
https://www.ketamineassistedemdr.com/training

KA-EMDR™ Consultation:
https://www.ketamineassistedemdr.com/consultation

KA-EMDR™ Therapist Directory:
https://www.ketamineassistedemdr.com/directory

Email: [email protected]