“If I were really asked to define myself, I wouldn’t start with race; I wouldn’t start with blackness; I wouldn’t start with gender; I wouldn’t start with feminism. I would start with stripping down to what fundamentally informs my life which is that I’m a seeker on the path. I think of feminism, and I think of anti-racist struggles as part of it. But where I stand spiritually is, steadfastly, on a path about love.”

Gloria Jean Watkins, born in Hopkinsville, Kentucky in 1952, once said she chose her public name—bell hooks—as a way of honoring a woman who had gone before her: her maternal great-grandmother, who was known for her sharp tongue. She also wanted to step away from her parents’ choice of Gloria Jean, which she thought “a southern belle’s name.” Her preference for using the lower case may derive from the 1960s fashion of making your own ego secondary to the cause.

The author of over 40 books of essays, poetry, children’s literature, and scholarly articles, hooks’ subjects were love, race, class, gender, art, mass media, sexuality, and feminism.

Some key takeaways from our conversation:

* Born a half century after civil rights pioneer Ella Baker, her feminism picks up the struggle for Black women to be heard.

* She saw the creeping nihilism damaging much of Black life (and American life generally) as stemming from her four-headed ideological enemy: "imperialist white supremacist capitalist patriarchy"

* Her intersectionality is about the interconnectedness of issues, similar to the way King realized at one point that the Vietnam War was not a separate issue from civil rights.

* She liked to say her goal was not to become an elite intellectual but “to produce theory people could use.”

* Her small town Kentucky origins strongly shaped her later life as she explored both her unhappiness as a child and the warmth of her agrarian community. She also developed a warm friendship with fellow Kentuckian Wendell Berry.

* She identified with (and embodied) Cornel West’s idea of an “organic intellectual” who never forgot her roots.

* She used the reach of popular culture—especially film—as a way of connecting more directly with her students.

* Her spirituality, which began in her Stanford years in an encounter with Gary Snyder’s Buddhism, grew as she aged and became a driving passion of her life.

Timestamps:

[00:10:00] Spiritual Influences: Discussion of how the dialogues between Thich Nhat Hanh and Daniel Berrigan helped hooks unite spiritual quest with radical activism.

[00:14:00] Ain’t I a Woman?: Background on hooks’ 1982 foundational third-wave feminist text that addressed the unique oppression of black women.

[00:31:30] Intellectual Discipline: A look at hooks’ daily routine, which included waking early to read one non-fiction book a day and limiting internet and cell phone use.

[00:42:30] “Homeplace” as Resistance: Analysis of hooks’ argument that the private home serves as a radical site of resistance and a sanctuary from public oppression.

[00:51:30] The Love Trilogy: Exploration of hooks’ best-selling books on love, where she defines love as a “verb” and an active practice within community.

[01:05:30] Connection to Wendell Berry: Discussion of hooks’ 2009 book Belonging and her shared vision with Berry regarding land, rural life, and Kentucky roots.

[01:20:30] Interview with Nadra Nittle: A conversation with the author of bell hooks’ Spiritual Vision.

Recommended:

* Ain’t I A Woman (1982)—her breakout first book, looking at the condition of Black women from the time of slavery through 1980

* Feminist Theory: From Margin to Center (1984)

* Breaking Bread: Insurgent Black Intellectual Life (1991)—conversations with her friend Cornel West

* Teaching to Transgress (1994)—strongly influenced by Paulo Freire

* Outlaw Culture (1994)—essays on culture, including pop star Madonna, the Clarence Thomas/Anita Hill controversy, and Spike Lee’s Malcolm X

* Bone Black (1996)—hooks’ luminous memoir of her girlhood in rural Kentucky

* All About Love: New Visions (1999)—the first of three books on love

* Salvation: Black People and Love (2001)

* Communion: The Female Search for Love (2002)

* Homegrown: Engaged Cultural Criticism (2006)—conversations with the Latina artist and scholar Amalia Mesa-Bains

* Belonging: A Culture of Place (2008)—reflections on her rediscovery of her native region, including an interview with her friend Wendell Berry

* bell hooks’ Spiritual Vision: Buddhist, Christian, and Feminist by Nadra Nittle (2023)

Who was Holly Whyte? Richard K. Rein’s excellent 2022 biography, American Urbanist: How William H. Whyte’s Unconventional Wisdom Reshaped Public Life, attempts to list his many personae: “magazine editor, author, urbanist, urban anthropologist, filmmaker, pundit, public intellectual, politician (unelected and behind the scenes), consultant, teacher, mentor (to, seemingly, hundreds), as well as husband and father.”

Born in 1917, he served in the Second World War at Guadalcanal. After the war, he joined Fortune magazine, where he coined the term “groupthink,” a fitting phrase for his big assignment of 1955-6: writing a book-length profile of American corporate culture in hopes of capturing its future direction.

That meant: rising suburbia, the gray flannel suit, the steno pool, bridge clubs, and the importance of being “well adjusted.” (“To what?” he asked. “Nobody really knows.”)

In his many interviews with CEOs as well as “middle managers” for The Organization Man, Whyte caught the shift away from the individualistic Protestant ethic toward a new conformity—really an idolatry (in his words) of the system, along with the misuse of science. (By the latter, he meant the tools of social science like personality tests.)

The other great subject for Whyte was the life of cities, especially their street life, a topic on which he served as mentor to urbanist Jane Jacobs. (See our conversation about her here.) His The Last Landscape has been seen as the Silent Spring of urban sprawl and the loss of urban open space — and his Social Life of Small Urban Spaces is a bible for placemakers to this day.

Our guest, Alexandra Whyte, is the daughter of Holly Whyte.

Key takeaways from our conversation:

* Whyte was one of the chroniclers of the Age of Conformity, as the 1950s are often thought of. On the model of the Cold War’s “containment” policy, there was a political economy of containment, as Eugene McCarraher suggests. Whyte is partly acquiescent, partly critical—almost “Beat.”

* His elite origins, a descendant of politicians, growing up in a mansion, attending St. Andrews boys’ prep school (inspiration for the film Dead Poets Society). His full name: W. Hollingsworth White III.

* His talent for writing prose with a literary flair. Becomes part of a scene of “connected critics” of society, along with James Agee, Dwight MacDonald, John Kenneth Galbraith, and others.

* His Organization Man can be seen as part of a post-war concern about the direction of the new business culture and its potential capture by various kinds of experts. It is also filled with very funny quotes.

* His vivid descriptions of the new suburban culture and its “packaged villages” that have become the dormitories of the Organization Men.

* A huge fan of cities his entire life. When asked to name his three favorite, he replied: “New York City, New York City, New York City.”

* His intellectual practice (like that of so many of our Lost Prophets!) was intense observation, whether in his interviews of corporate executives or in his way of learning about cities by walking the streets and watching the interactions in public spaces. The brilliance of his “amateur sociology.”

* His fascination with townscape: the physical outlines of the downtown, the city center, the main street. (He wrote “The street is the river of life of the city, the place where we come together, the pathway to the center.”)

* His love of street life and even street people—he considered them an index of the health of a place and defended their legal rights to gather, play music, etc.

* In The Social Life of Small Urban Spaces, he develops the key concepts of what becomes the art of placemaking.

* Whereas his more famous student, urbanist Jane Jacobs, tended toward lyrical, qualitative observations, Whyte loved data gathering (which could include hiding behind trash cans in order to watch the pedestrian traffic in a particular plaza).

Timestamps:

0:03:30 — Introduction: The Counterculture in a Suit

00:11:00 — Early Life: From Vicks VapoRub to the Marine Corps

00:14:30 — Fortune Magazine and the Invention of “Groupthink”

00:24:00 — Deep Dive: The Organization Man

00:41:00 — The “New Suburbia”

00:47:30 — The Pivot to Urbanism: The Exploding Metropolis

00:55:00 — Discovering Jane Jacobs

00:59:00 — Conservation Easements and the 1969 NYC Plan

01:04:30 — The Social Life of Small Urban Spaces

01:15:30 — Interview with Alexandra White

Recommended:

* The Organization Man (1956)

* The Exploding Metropolis (1958)

* Social Life of Small Urban Spaces (1980)

* City: Rediscovering the Center (1988)

* American Urbanist: How William H. Whyte’s Unconventional Wisdom Reshaped Public Life, Richard K. Rein (2022)

* Social Life of Small Urban Spaces—documentary film (1980)

* James Howard Kunstler on “How Bad Architecture Wrecked Cities”

“Devout and Dangerous” is the title—irony intended—of an excellent documentary film about the life and times of Fr. Daniel Berrigan, his brother Philip, and their circle of Catholic activists for peace.

The priest brothers were indeed publicly devout in their antiwar actions but “dangerous”? Certainly FBI director J. Edgar Hoover was convinced of the great harm the group posed to his reputation and to that of his unaccountable agency.

In reality, during the years of the Vietnam War and afterward for two decades, what these militantly nonviolent activists “endangered” was the continuing, mostly unquestioned operations of the U.S. military-industrial complex, whether in the offices of local draft boards or in the weapons plants manufacturing nuclear warheads.

If only recently, a Jesuit pope was speaking to the world about the need to finally discard doctrines of “just war” in favor of the philosophy and practice of nonviolence, the witness of Dan Berrigan and his circle of fellow resisters spoke prophetically of these things over a half century ago.

As the anguish around the Vietnam War grew to a white heat in the 1960s, American Catholics were just getting comfortable with their arrival in middle-class society, symbolized by the Kennedy election at the beginning of the decade. Nothing could have been more shocking than the spectacle of a Catholic priest being arrested and going to jail for an act of civil disobedience (at a massive antiwar protest at the Pentagon). Such a thing had simply never happened before. (Actually it had, when Daniel’s brother, Father Philip Berrigan, was first arrested for a civil rights demonstration in 1962.)

Nor were any Americans prepared to read of two priests and several laypeople entering a draft board center in Catonsville MD, taking out draft records to cover with blood, and then burning with homemade napalm in a parking lot before joining hands in prayer as they awaited arrest.

Were these useless, symbolic efforts? The Berrigans’ actions inspired over 200 draft board raids before the Vietnam war ended, and convinced Daniel Ellsberg to copy and disseminate the 7,000 pages of the Pentagon Papers. Numerous voices later attributed a major role to the Berrigans in turning world public opinion against the war. But even if that didn’t happen, Berrigan wouldn’t have seen his work as a failure: “ Good work is its own justification,” he would say. “The outcome is in other hands besides ours.”

Dan Berrigan published over 50 books of essays, poetry and theology, and was nominated numerous times for the Nobel Peace Prize, notably for his work in Northern Ireland during the Troubles.

Our guest for this episode, Fr. John Dear, was a close collaborator with Dan Berrigan for several decades. He is an internationally known author, activist and teacher of peace and nonviolence. He has been nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize by Archbishop Desmond Tutu, Senator Barbara Mikulski, and several others.

Some key takeaways from our conversation:

* Daniel Berrigan’s gift for creating memorable language about justice. As he and his fellow resisters stood burning draft files at Catonsville, Maryland in 1967, Berrigan famously said to the small crowd (and to the world), “Our apologies, good friends, for the fracture of good order, for the burning of paper instead of children, for the angering of the orderlies in in the front parlor of the charnel house. We could not, so help us God, do otherwise.”

* He moved away from some aspects of his Jesuit culture but he never failed to acknowledge what his training gave him: a deep sense of God in the world, and most especially in the human community.

* His faithfulness to the Word of Scripture as liberation: “We go to this Word in fear and trembling, knowing that the World itself is a judgement, a two-edged sword, as Paul declares.”

* His wonderful ability to perform, to act, to transform prosaic events into theater and poetry, as in the case of his Broadway play, The Trial of the Catonsville Nine

* His humor (usually with a point): “Don’t just do something, stand there”, he liked to say. (A way of making the point that most “doing something” is less valuable than taking a stand for something.)

* He came to believe and teach that the nonviolent way of life should be the normal way for a human being to live, something that in fact neither of his great inspirations—Gandhi and Martin Luther King Jr.—had ever quite said.

* As for our motivations, he taught: “Do the good because it’s good; speak the truth because it’s the truth. Don’t worry about your influence or the outcome—leave it to God, it’s in better hands than ours.”

* Berrigan was once asked, “How many times have you been arrested?” He replied, “Apparently not enough.”

Timestamps:

* (0:00) Intro discussion

* (6:00) Childhood and early years as a priest, experiences in Europe, first writings, founding of Catholic Peace Fellowship, exile to Mexico

* (20:00) Travels in Latin America, returns to the U.S. (Cornell U.)

* (23:30) Hanoi trip, the Catonsville MD draft card burning, repercussions and reactions, trial of the Catonsville Nine

* (38:30) Goes underground, arrested and imprisoned

* (49:30) New activism around nuclear weapons, just war theory, nonviolence, friendship and book with Thich Nhat Hanh

* (52:30) Peace action at G.E. plant in King of Prussia PA, trial and later film about the trial

* (59:30) Acts in The Mission movie, teaching, writing, final interview

* (1:06:00) Interview with Father John Dear

* (2:01:30) Final reflections

Recommended:

* Daniel Berrigan, Essential Writings, ed. by John Dear (2009)

* At Play in the Lion’s Den, biography of Berrigan by a good friend and collaborator, Jim Forest (2017)

* No Bars to Manhood, Daniel Berrigan (2007)

* Disarmed And Dangerous: The Radical Life And Times Of Daniel And Philip Berrigan, Brothers In Religious Faith And Civil Disobedience, Murray Polner, Jim O’Grady (1998)

* In the King of Prussia, Emile de Antonio’s filmed re-enactment of the Plowshares trial, 1982 (YouTube)

* The Holy Outlaw, 1970 doc film by Lee Lockwood for NET.

* Bare Ruined Choirs: Doubt, Prophecy, and Radical Religion, Gary Wills (1972)

* Jeremy Scahill on Daniel Berrigan, Democracy Now (2016)

“If we could get every billionaire in the world to move here, that would be a godsend.” —former New York City mayor Michael Bloomberg

Somewhat short of the former mayor’s hopes, it seems that exactly 123 billionaires—the most in the country—now make New York City their home, according to the 2025 Forbes list. Perhaps they have been a political godsend for the campaign of mayoral candidate Zohran Mamdani, whose meteoric rise has been partly fueled by street-level policy proposals aimed at restoring affordability for the city’s non-billionaires.

It’s enough to make you think Zohran had a pre-publication copy of historian Daniel Wortel-London’s wonderfully heterodox and well-written new book on the economic history of the city of New York— The Menace of Prosperity: New York City and the Struggle for Economic Development, 1865-1981. (You can pre-order here — and a Google Play audiobook preview is here.)

How on earth, some readers will wonder, could prosperity ever be a menace? But that’s the story Wortel-London tells (with appearances by Lost Prophets Jane Jacobs, Paul Goodman, Lewis Mumford, and others) as he recounts over a century of struggles about which form of prosperity the city should aspire to — one that distributes ownership widely…or centralizes power; one that cultivates civic virtue…or rewards profiteering speculation; one that builds wealth locally…or hitches local prosperity to the task of attracting outside corporations and billionaires (and occasionally redistributing some of their wealth)?

It seems undeniable that capitalism tends to move from crisis to crisis, at least if you look at the three periods under scrutiny here. The first crisis stemmed from the Panic of 1873, when the city’s post-Civil War real estate boom from public spending ends in the Wall Street-railroad bubble bursting. The 1930s were the next crisis years as Fiorello LaGuardia and the City Planning Commission struggled with fiscal stabilization, possibly undermined, as the author interestingly explains, by federal assistance, which only accelerated the problems. Manhattan’s land values did not fully return to their pre-Depression values until 1977, by which time a shift in focus from land values to white collar income as the real source for taxes was well underway. The striking thesis offered here is that the fiscal crises were due to a “bankruptcy of economic thought and policy”, a poverty of ideas and “a dogma of powerlessness.”

Wortel-London turns around the usual shibboleths about the city’s welfare services being a driver of crisis in order to see them as a downstream product of the private sector’s irresponsibility and power: power to pay lower wages, charge high rents, and deny investment to needy communities. The culprit—one rarely mentioned in conversations about urban development—is unsustainable elite-driven development with its attendant social costs.

As we review this history with Daniel, we find the book to be a storehouse of urban policy alternatives. Mayor Bloomberg is only one of the more recent proponents of the comforting notion that “the rich take care of everybody else” with what Wortel-London calls their “poisoned largesse.” Many years ago, the urban policy mix included worker cooperatives, public housing, land value taxes, neighborhood finance, and community-owned enterprises. As a stroll around many parts of New York today will reveal, cities today mostly utilize tax incentives for corporations, real estate speculation, and financialized development.

Wortel-London’s narrative stops in 1981, with the arrival of Reaganomics, austerity and the first wave of the billionaires. It would be a further contribution to expanding what he calls our “fiscal imaginations”—badly shrunken as they are—if his next book could pick up the story at that point. Unless he decides to take a job in the new Mamdani administration, of course.

[Note: This episode was recorded before the New York City mayoral primary.]

Recommended

* The Menace of Prosperity: New York City and the Struggle for Economic Development, 1865-1981 — pre-order here

* “(We’re) Back in the USSR” from Daniel’s great substack, The Economy of Community

* Daniel on Zohran’s primary victory in New York Daily News

* Daniel on Zohran and Community Wealth-Building in the Democracy Collaborative’s blog

* Paul and Percival Goodman’s Communitas

Many thanks to the great band NOBLE DUST, who provides the music for Lost Prophets. Their latest album, A Picture for a Frame, is here.

LOST PROPHETS is a podcast about the mid-century voices of solidarity we need to hear again. To listen on your podcast player, our Spotify link is here, Apple Podcasts link is here, and RSS link is here.

In 1962, the American public’s faith in science was very high. After all, science was credited with helping us win World War II (Spam rations, nylons, the bomb) and was giving an emerging middle-class ever more conveniences and choices.

It was also a time when the answer to many questions was simply: more chemicals.

Certain things had gone unnoticed in this triumphal story, however. The synthetic pesticide DDT had been rushed into battle zones in 1940 in the hopes of defeating the spread of typhus via lice or malaria. Over one million people—thousands in the city of Naples and whole islands in the South Pacific, for example—were “deloused” by DDT dusting.

By 1951, DDT was being deployed by crop dusting planes after it had been cleared for civilian use, eliminating malaria from U.S. households after extensive house-spraying efforts. The Department of Agriculture advocated vigorously for farm use.

When the USDA’s fire ant eradication (not just control) program was rolled out in the Deep South, 20 million acres were sprayed, killing various kinds of wildlife. In these years, consumers had some 6,000 different pesticide products available, with little testing, nor restrictions on use. Meanwhile, more reports of dead birds and fish kept appearing.

Rachel Carson, the author of the iconic report Silent Spring, resembled her near contemporary Jane Jacobs in being something of a reluctant prophet—but one who was unafraid to question authority (or corporate power), once the time of testing came.

Her first love was the ocean which, as she later noted, came to teach her everything about “the connectedness of the world.” Between 1941 and 1955, she wrote three lyrical books about the sea, at a time when there was little popular knowledge about the subject. Serialized first in the New Yorker, her The Sea Around Us became one of the best-selling science books of all time, translated into 30 languages.

In one of her warm letters to her friend Dorothy Freeman, she explained what was compelling her to write a new—and darker—kind of book: “Everything which meant most to me as a naturalist was being threatened and nothing I could do would be more important.” After books about beauty, she had to write one about death and its causes.

Scientists in this Cold War period were not advocates. But Carson became a crusader, all while fighting the cancer that would take her life shortly after Silent Spring’s publication. She was not against the prudent use of pesticides but against the indiscriminate use of poisons of any kind—including nuclear radiation—which had unanticipated consequences.

Her legacy can be traced in the Environmental Protection Agency (1970), the Safe Water Drinking Act (1974), and the Toxic Substances Control Act (1976), to say nothing of the global environmental movement generally.

Her writings influenced figures like Loren Eiseley, Stephen Hawking, Stephen Jay Gould, Oliver Sacks, James Watson, Jane Goodall, and Robin Wall Kimmerer.

Our conversation about Carson is with her grandnephew and adopted son, Roger Christie, who spent his early years growing up with Carson and learning from her. He is today the chairman of the board of the Rachael Carson Council.

Key takeaways:

* A poet of the ocean and in many ways a reluctant prophet—until she felt she had no choice.

* While not religious per se, she eventually becomes a social crusader—through her love of the natural world, her humility in the face of beauty.

* Her early life resembled Gary Snyder’s: rustic rural with a mother who loved reading.

* After years of longing to see the ocean, she gets a job at the Marine Biology Laboratory at Woods Hole, Massachusetts—her first sight of the sea. She begins to perceive the interconnectedness of all life.

* Her financial struggles: in the Depression years, she becomes her family’s sole breadwinner just as she was about to embark on a PhD at Johns Hopkins in Baltimore.

* Her oceanographic work at the Bureau of Fisheries gives her the idea for the first book in what will become her sea trilogy, Under the Sea Wind.

* After reading other nature writers, she discovers she has a gift for making the natural world vivid and interesting to readers.

* The experience of the Second World War, with its naval ships and submarines, spurred a greater curiosity about understanding the oceans, still little studied or known about at the time.

* The wartime success with DDT in defeating malaria boosts its civilian applications, despite its deadly effects on animal and plant populations.

* Her literary success finally enabled her to buy a seaside home in Maine where she writes The Sea Around Us and falls in love with a neighbor, Dorothy Freeman. She has also adopted her grandnephew Roger Christie after the death of his mother, her niece.

* Her observations about the impact of a chemical barrage destroying habitat and natural ecosystems is part of the first ecological thinking in American public life.

* The 1954 H-bomb test over Bikini Atoll puts the phrase “nuclear fallout” into common use—Carson sees it as part of our unwitting self-destruction. Ironically she develops a cancerous condition herself.

* Like several other of our Lost Prophets, she resists the technocratic dream of mastering nature instead of simply living within it. This stance brings her under fierce criticism, especially from corporate interests. If Jane Jacobs was an urban naturalist pushing back on the self-appointed experts, Carson is her ecological cousin.

* Her heroic final years of illness while completing and speaking about Silent Spring were a race against time.

Timestamps:

00:00—We open the episode with thoughts on Carson's foundational insight: that nature’s balance cannot be overridden without consequence.

05:00–On a Pennsylvania farm, Rachel’s mother instills in her a dual love of nature and writing — the two passions that define her life.

08:00—Forced to take a science requirement in college, Carson falls in love with biology and shifts from aspiring writer to poet scientist.

14:00—Working for the U.S. Bureau of Fisheries, she publishes a lyrical essay about the ocean in The Atlantic, launching her writing career.

22:00—The Sea Around Us, her second book, becomes a surprise bestseller, bringing national fame and allowing her to leave government work.

26:00—The postwar spread of DDT—once hailed as a miracle chemical—plants the seeds of Carson’s concern as the record of ecological damage grows ever higher.

38:00—Spurred by the alarming data, she begins writing Silent Spring, the book that will make her both famous and controversial.

54:00—Silent Spring is published, followed by a powerful CBS special on Carson and her work. The public rallies to her cause and JFK publicly supports her.

1:00:00—Secretly fighting terminal cancer, she testifies before Congress and inspires the wave of environmental legislation that follows over the next decade and beyond.

1:07:00—Written in 1956 but her final published work, The Sense of Wonder, is an essay written to inspire parents to show their children the wonder of nature.

1:11:00—We interview Roger Christie, Rachel’s grandnephew and adopted son, who offers insights on her work as well as memories of her warmth, humor, and devotion.

1:17:00—Roger describes Carson’s silent suffering with terminal cancer as she was raising him and completing Silent Spring—her final act of service.

1:26:00—We reflect with Roger on how Carson’s ecological worldview applies to today’s crises—from climate change to technocracy.

1:36:00—Final thoughts connecting Carson’s message to those of Jane Jacobs, Wendell Berry, and Abraham Joshua Heschel: start with love, stay rooted in wonder, and resist abstraction.

Recommended:

* Under the Sea Wind (1941)

* The Sea Around Us (1951)

* The Edge of the Sea (1955)

* Silent Spring (1962)

* The Sense of Wonder (1965)

* Rachel Carson (2017)—PBS documentary biography

* The Power of One Voice (2014)—documentary on Carson’s legacy

* Maria Popova on Rachel Carson

His Buddhist community called him simply “Thay,” the Vietnamese word for teacher.

Zen Buddhist monk Thich Nhat Hanh died at age 95 in his native Vietnam, having endured 39 years of exile between 1966 and 2005. In his lifetime he became a global spokesperson for non-violence and peace, beginning with his missions to the U.S. in the early 1960s that aimed to halt the destruction of his country as the war in Vietnam continued to escalate.

Born in 1926, Nhat Hanh grew up in a time of French colonialism followed by American occupation and war. Thomas Merton, meeting him at his Gethsemani monastery in Kentucky, said he felt as though he had met Vietnam itself. He asked his gentle guest, “What is the war like?” Nhat Hanh replied, “Everything is destroyed,” the answer of a monk, as Merton later noted: no words wasted.

The Buddhist monk and the Cistercian monk: they seemed to embody, each in his own tradition, the interplay of action and contemplation, even the possibility that the taking up of new religious practices need not mean giving up the old ones.

Nhat Hanh’s engaged Buddhism resembled Merton’s later spirituality in its three components: contemplative practice, social action, and inter-religious dialogue. With his Order of Interbeing, established in 1966, he showed a path of non-attachment to all ideologies and real connection to the earth.

In addition to his writing and activism, Nhat Hanh established monasteries in Southern California, New York, Vietnam, Mississippi, Paris, Germany and Australia. His global ethic, including his mindfulness trainings, were highlighted by the United Nations for its non-sectarian ethical path for humanity.

Later in the episode, we are joined by Brother Phap Luu of the Deer Park Monastery, who received the Lamp Transmission from Nhat Hanh to become a Dharma Teacher in 2011 — and has been active in the Wake Up movement, which shares mindfulness practice with young people around the world.

Key Takeaways from our Conversation:

* Nhat Hanh’s similarities to Abraham Joshua Heschel and Martin Luther King Jr.

* His several connections to the “web” of the Beloved Community of our Lost Prophets

* Early training as a monk and his ideas on a new form of “engaged” Buddhism which always saw Vietnam as one country

* The Buddhist pagoda culture of good work and merit

* He introduces himself to Martin Luther King Jr. in a letter attempting to explain the real meaning of the widely publicized self-immolation of a Buddhist monk in Saigon—i.e., it should be seen as an act of deliberate martyrdom over religious repression rather than a mere act of suicide.

* In the 1960s, he was a leader in the difficult struggle between non-Communist nationalism and anti-Communist ideology, taking a non-dualistic approach.

* “His ideas for peace, if applied, would build a monument to ecumenism, to world brotherhood, to humanity.” (Martin Luther King Jr., nominating Thay for the Nobel Peace Prize in 1967.)

* The Beloved Community: a concept going back to Josiah Royce, then to A.J. Muste and Howard Thurman (King’s inspiration), it describes a society characterized by peace, justice, equality, and love, where all persons are valued and have the opportunity to thrive. Just as Nhat Hanh influenced King to speak out about the Vietnam War, King shared his understanding of the Beloved Community when they met in Geneva in 1967. Nhat Hanh then extends the vision by suggesting that not only deities but all beings might attain the status of boddhisattvas (enlightened beings who awaken others).

* “Sitting is only one part of Zen…” (Fragrant Palm Leaves)

* In 1970, with the help of the Fellowship of Reconciliation, Nhat Hanh founds Dai Dong, a Buddhist movement for the health of the earth. Its founding statement is signed by thousands of scientists and policy professionals. Several meetings between Nhat Hanh and U.N Secretary General U Thant lead to the first U.N. Climate Summit in Stockholm (1972).

* “In order to save the world, each of us has to build a pagoda, a sanctuary where you have a chance to be alone and to face yourself, the reality of yourself.” (The Raft Is Not the Shore)

* “If you have to choose between Buddhism and peace, then you must choose peace. Because if you choose Buddhism, you sacrifice peace—and Buddhism does not accept that.” (The Raft Is Not the Shore)

* “…If you are not transformed on the way, you remain at the point of departure all the time; you never arrive at the destination. So the way must be in you; the destination must also be in you and not somewhere else in space or time.” (The Raft Is Not the Shore)

* Mindfulness: In Buddhism, it is closely intertwined with interbeing. The energy of being aware and awake of the present moment. A better term, perhaps: remindfulness, emphasizing the root meaning of sati, closer to remembrance. It is at the same time a means and an end, the seed and the fruit. It is not merely a tool but a path.

* Practice smiling—especially the Buddha’s half-smile.

* In Buddhism, at least four persons practicing together are needed to be called a sangha (community). “Without a sangha, you will be lost.” (Living Buddha, Living Christ)

Recommended:

* “A Cloud Never Dies” (documentary film)

* Fragrant Palm Leaves, Journals 1962-1966, Thich Nhat Hanh

* Lotus in a Sea of Fire (1967), Thich Nhat Hanh

* Brothers in the Beloved Community: The Friendship of Thich Nhat Hanh and Martin Luther King Jr. (2021), Marc Andrus

* The Miracle of Mindfulness: An Introduction to the Practice of Meditation (1975), Thich Nhat Hanh

* The Raft Is Not the Shore (2001), Thich Nhat Hanh, Fr. Daniel Berrigan

* Living Buddha, Living Christ (1995, 2007), Thich Nhat Hanh

* Eyes of Compassion: Learning from Thich Nhat Hanh (2021), Jim Forest

* Walk With Me (documentary film, 2017)

Many thanks to the great band NOBLE DUST, who provides the music for Lost Prophets. Their latest album, A Picture for a Frame, is here.

Many thanks to the great Dan Thorn, who helped edit this episode.

LOST PROPHETS is a podcast about the mid-century voices of solidarity we need to hear again. To listen on your podcast player, our Spotify link is here, Apple Podcasts link is here, and RSS link is here.

We co-hosts at Lost Prophets each have a slightly different story about encountering Pope Francis, to use a word which he gave a particular meaning. (Elias’ reflection on the Pope of the Peripheries is here and Pete’s reflection on Francis and The God of Surprises is here.) Theologically speaking, the encuentro refers to an understanding of the Catholic faith, not as a set of doctrines, but as an experience of meeting a person (or more precisely, a Person).

In the wake of his passing last week, we reflect in this episode on Pope Francis as a Lost Prophet himself, emerging out of the same era and spirit that so many featured in our series also did. But unlike the others, Francis reached the peak of his influence half a century later and, in doing so, was much less “lost” to our time—in fact, he may have been the largest countercultural voice of our day.

Discussed in the episode:

* Francis as a symbol of the arrival of Catholicism as a world church whose center of gravity is now the Global South.

* Pete’s story of Francis rescuing him in 2013 from a turn toward millennial-style cynicism.

* Francis’ personal history, starting with his labor activist grandmother, his Salesian high school, his Jesuit training, his experience of Peronism.

* Vatican II and the Pact of the Catacombs, a document which will later influence Francis.

* His role as the Jesuit provincial of Argentina during the Dirty Wars of the 1970s and his authoritarian style at the time.

* His studies with Romano Guardini and a time of interior crisis before being appointed an auxiliary bishop in Buenos Aires, then Archbishop.

* We speculate: Was he, like Romero, a “conservative” who whose life experience broke him open to the world?

* The 2007 Aparecida meeting of the Latin American bishops: Francis emerges as a transformative leader.

* His anti-ideological views and his “revision” of liberation theology toward a theology of the people (teologia del pueblo)—and the beauty of mestizo culture.

* An alternative kind of development: integral ecology.

* Evangelii Gaudium (2013) and the evangelical importance of encounter.

* Time over space, realities over ideas, and the whole over the parts (the polyhedron).

* Laudato Si’ (2015) and hearing “the cry of the poor, the cry of the earth”

* Elias talks about his invitation to Rio for World Youth Day in 2013 and his experience of seeing Francis in person, the beginning of his personal encounter with Francis.

* Francis’ vision of the Church as a “field hospital”.

* Fratelli Tutti and the need to become a people, a culture.

* The Synod on the Amazon and the engagement with the indigenous concept of buen vivir.

* Pete’s reflection on his late father’s anthropological work in the Amazon and on behalf the rights of its indigenous peoples.

* Concluding thoughts on the movie Conclave and on Francis’ legacy.

Further reading:

* The Aparecida Document

* Evangelii Gaudium

* Laudato Si’

* Fratelli Tutti

* Austin Ivereigh’s biography of Francis, Wounded Shepherd: Pope Francis and His Struggle to Convert the Catholic Church

* Charles Taylor on Fratelli Tutti

* Andrew Sullivan on the “Untier of Knots”

* Bergoglio in 1991 on Corruption and Sin

Many thanks to the great band NOBLE DUST, who provides the music for Lost Prophets. Their latest album, A Picture for a Frame, is here.

LOST PROPHETS is a podcast about the mid-century voices of solidarity we need to hear again. To listen on your podcast player, our Spotify link is here, Apple Podcasts link is here, and RSS link is here.

We now have an even dozen episodes of Lost Prophets under our belts. Time to stop, we thought, sit down by the side of the road, and look back down the mountain at the distance we’ve come.

Some key points that came up:

* We want to do archaeology of the future, not just forecasts of the past (Russell Jacoby).

* The counterculture at its most serious was a protest against nuclear weapons, technocracy’s essential criminality. (Theodore Roszak)

* The lost revolutions of these lost prophets didn't end because they were irrelevant — they ended because they were either beaten down or went quiet for some other reason. They're still very, very relevant. (Pete)

* Nazi resister Franz Jägerstätter's dream of the silver train. (Elias)

* The importance of having a sangha (spiritual community) if you want to stay strong. (Elias)

* Most of our prophets came from “thick communities” that give them the stability and confidence to be counterculture. (Pete)

* One common thread here: A deep faith in ordinary people. (Elias)

* Gandhi’s notion of soul force. (Elias)

* Love is the most important form of revolutionary labor — and growing our souls is a revolutionary act, a kind of freedom project (Grace Lee Boggs).

* Our need to recover communal—not just individual—spirituality (Gustavo Gutierrez).

* “My name is Pete Davis and I was addicted to blueprints and plans!”

* “Find the others.” (Douglass Rushkoff)

* Door knocking for peace and often hearing: “I’m secretly with you—just don’t tell my neighbors.” (Gar Alperovitz, retold here)

* Writing something about reality forces you towards being empirical, getting out in the world to see for yourself. (Pete, channeling Ralph Nader.)

* Ending with W.H. Auden’s “September 1, 1939”: “as the clever hopes expire/Of a low dishonest decade.” (Taken as a title of a George Scialabba essay collection.)

More Lost Prophets coming shortly: Thích Nhất Hạnh, Daniel Berrigan, and more!

Many thanks to the great band NOBLE DUST, who provides the music for Lost Prophets. Their latest album, A Picture for a Frame, is here.

Many thanks to our editor, the great Dan Thorn.

LOST PROPHETS is a podcast about the mid-century voices of solidarity we need to hear again. To listen on your podcast player, our Spotify link is here, Apple Podcasts link is here, and RSS link is here.

To understand the accumulating fractures of our time, it’s important to look back at key earlier periods and try to discern: What were we thinking?

Colette Shade — who has written for The New Republic, The Baffler, Interview Magazine, The Nation, and Gawker — reminds us that during the “dream state,” the years between 1997 and 2008, we were thinking things like the following:

* It’s the end of history—there’s no longer a need for politics!

* The internet has arrived—we’re about to enjoy life without limits!

* Gotta love butterfly clips, Lindsay Lohan, The Sopranos, bling, Smash Mouth, and the Hummer H2

In sparkling prose, Shade digs through pop anthropology to offer a quite serious sociopolitical critique of the deadly undercurrents of this time, such as the triumph of neoliberalism, the full arrival of the California ideology (tech bros ascendant), and the substitution of nostalgia for genuine politics.

Demonstrating that our podcast is not hung up on the 1960s, fellow millennials Colette and Pete have a great time comparing their childhood journeys as the world descends from the maximalist futurism of iMacs and body glitter to the reality check of the Great Recession.

Timestamps

* Introducing guest Colette Shade and how her book happily connects with our midcentury "Lost Prophets" theme: How the 2000s fit into the broader narrative of modernity, technology, and social change.

* 03:06 Looking back at 1991 and the fall of the Soviet Union: The shift in political and economic ideology shaping the Y2K era

* 06:19 The "Long 2000s": Defining this era’s influence as actually from 1997 to the 2008 financial crisis.

* 09:54 The culture of excess: Dot-com wealth, no limits pop culture, and the promise of an ever-expanding future.

* 12:34 The anti-politics of the 2000s: How post-Cold War confidence led to cultural shallowness and reactionary media

* 18:30 The triumph of the California Ideology, a fusion of countercultural freedom and libertarian tech capitalism.

* 29:40 The limits of the ideology: How Silicon Valley’s utopian vision overlooked systemic labor and social issues.

* 31:55 Gen X vs. Millennial left: How 1999 activism (WTO protests, anti-globalization) evolved into post-2008 political movements.

* 40:35 Certain 1999 movies as prophecy: The Matrix, Fight Club, American Beauty—all revealing the underlying cracks in the system.

Recommended

* Y2K: How the 2000s Became Everything by Colette Shade (Colette’s new book)

* Elon Musk Has Always Been Like This. So Has Silicon Valley (Colette’s article on Musk and where he came from ideologically.)

* When the Clock Broke: Confronting the Limits of the American Left by John Ganz (discussion of early 1990s political malaise)

* From Counterculture to Cyberculture: Stewart Brand, the Whole Earth Network, and the Rise of Digital Utopianism by Fred Turner (History of the tech movement’s countercultural roots)

* Palo Alto: A History of California, Capitalism, and the World by Malcolm Harris (Silicon Valley’s ideological and economic evolution)

* The Making of Global Capitalism: The Political Economy of American Empire by Leo Panitch and Sam Gindin (Economic and political history of globalization)

* The California Ideology by Richard Barbrook & Andy Cameron (1995 essay defining Silicon Valley’s libertarian-tech utopianism)

* No Logo: Taking Aim at the Brand Bullies by Naomi Klein (Anti-consumerist and corporate critique of the late 1990s)

Many thanks to the great band NOBLE DUST, who provides the music for Lost Prophets. Their latest album, A Picture for a Frame, is here.

Many thanks to our editor, the great Dan Thorn.

LOST PROPHETS is a podcast about the mid-century voices of solidarity we need to hear again. To listen on your podcast player, our Spotify link is here, Apple Podcasts link is here, and RSS link is here.

It is slightly jarring to find the radically-minded Paul Goodman a welcome guest on the September 12, 1966 episode of William F. Buckley’s Firing Line television show. The topic was “Are Public Schools Necessary?”, to which Goodman responds in the negative—or at least with an alternative vision of small, decentralized schools that emphasized experience in the real life of the neighborhood over stultifying curricula in quarantined classrooms.

By this time, Goodman was at the height of his fame as an oracle of the New Left and the 60s student movement, a speaker so popular that students at San Francisco State raised a year’s salary for him to come teach there. He was also in his mid-fifties.

Beginning in the Depression years, Goodman had poured forth novels, short stories, poetry and essays with great elan, despite a peripatetic existence caused by periodic sexual indiscretions. (Some of these incidents were just the result of the era’s bigotry, as Goodman was an unapologetic bisexual; other incidents would still be considered quite problematic today.)

A radical Freudian at first, Goodman became increasingly interested in the work of Fritz and Laura Perls, even co-authoring with them the first text on Gestalt therapy in 1951. His unpopular pacifist stance during the Second World War complicated his career and by the late 1950s, Goodman was continuously struggling to support a wife and two small children.

Then came an offer to write a book giving his solutions to the issue of the day, juvenile delinquency, as it was then quaintly called. His Growing Up Absurd (1960) was a cultural phenomenon, not least because Goodman blamed society itself, not young people, for the latter’s widespread sense of alienation. Published early in a moment of growing social upheaval—the rising Civil Rights movement, deepening involvement in Vietnam, the Free Speech Movement at UC Berkeley—the book became an omnipresent bible of student rebellion, selling hundreds of thousands of copies.

And despite the famous catchphrase of the times, “never trust anyone over thirty” (which Goodman certainly was), the more radical students on campuses across the country not only trusted him—practically alone among adults in these years—but flocked to hear his every word.

One of those students—who actually met and spoke with Goodman—was our guest for this episode, Gregory W. Knapp, now a professor emeritus at the University of Texas at Austin.

Greg received his BA from the University of California, Berkeley, in Mathematics and Economics, and his PhD in Geography from the University of Wisconsin. His research has focused on themes in cultural and regional geography. We were intrigued by Greg’s article, “Kenneth Rexroth and Paul Goodman: Poets, Writers, Anarchists and Political Ecologists” which inspired us to invite him on the show.

Some key takeaways from our conversation:

* A jack of all trades, Susan Sontag compared Goodman to Emerson, describing him as “a connoisseur of freedom.” A novelist, poet, lay psychiatrist, social scientist, urbanist, and practitioner of the now-lost art of being a “man of letters”

* Goodman was perhaps the best writer on the theme that launched the 1960s counterculture: our social world in its current arrangements is not worth “adjusting” yourself to. (This made Goodman a “reverse Don Quixote”, as one of his reviewers remarked, the only sane man amidst a crazy world.)

* He was an exponent of a kind of “revolutionary hope” which all but vanished after the Vietnam War.

* Goodman knew conforming was madness but that fully dropping out was also mad—he wanted a sane alternative. As critic George Steiner put it, Goodman was “trying to hack out elbow room for the imagination”—our lost genius for imagining bold solutions to problems.

* Life over theory and any ideas that reify Society: Against the jargon-ridden state of most academic writing, Goodman deliberately wrote to reach the largest possible educated audience.

* Goodman was an early reader of Peter Kropotkin, which led to a lifelong love affair with community anarchism in an anti-Marxist frame—but he cared about “citizenliness.”

* Like his good friend Ivan Illich, Goodman was a deep critic of education as merely “learning the code,” a way of keeping the young safely out of the labor market for 16 years.

* Goodman told Studs Terkel: “I might seem to have a number of divergent interests…but they are all one concern: how to make it possible to grow up as a human being into a culture without losing nature. I simply refuse to acknowledge that a sensible and honorable community does not exist.”

* In his 1967 Massey Lectures, he said: “The question is whether or not our beautiful libertarian, pluralist, and populist experiment is viable in modern conditions. If it’s not, I don’t know any other acceptable politics, and I’m a man without a country.”

Timestamps:

* [02:30] Pete describes discovering Goodman, a true public intellectual who worked across multiple disciplines, through the documentary Paul Goodman Changed My Life.

* [11:00] Discussion of Goodman's early life in New York City and how the city itself strongly influenced his worldview

* [14:00] Goodmans’s time at City College of New York, where he developed his commitment to community anarchism through reading Kropotkin; his early career as a writer and intellectual

* [31:30] Goodman’s anarchist philosophy, which focused on drawing lines to keep society's conforming impulses at bay and create free spaces for natural instincts and authentic living

* [41:00] Reflections on Goodman’s breakthrough book Growing Up Absurd (1960) and its critique of how modern society fails to provide meaningful opportunities and worthwhile goals for young people to grow into

* [52:30] Goodman’s work in psychology and as a co-founder of Gestalt therapy, which focused on helping people live authentically rather than adjusting to society's demands

* [1:14:30] How Goodman became alienated from the militant radicals of the late 1960s as he critiqued their growing cynicism while maintaining his faith in humanism

* [1:41:00] Interview with Gregory W. Knapp, who met Goodman at Berkeley in the 1960s and provides firsthand accounts of Goodman's interactions with students and his impact on the counterculture

* [2:19:00] Final reflections on Goodman's legacy: how some of his ideas about authenticity and personal freedom became mainstream while his vision of participatory democracy and community remains unfulfilled

Recommended:

* Paul Goodman Changed My Life (2011 documentary)

* Communitas (1947)

* The Empire City (1959)

* Growing Up Absurd (1960)

* Compulsory Miseducation (1964)

* “Are Public Schools Necessary?”, Goodman as guest on William F. Buckley’s Firing Line (Sept. 12, 1966)

* Like a Conquered Province—Massey Lectures (1967)

* New Reformation (1970)

* Kenneth Rexroth and Paul Goodman: Poets, Writers, Anarchists and Political Ecologists, Gregory W. Knapp (2021)

* On Paul Goodman, Susan Sontag in The New York Review (1972)

Many thanks to the great band NOBLE DUST, who provides the music for Lost Prophets. Their latest album, A Picture for a Frame, is here.

Many thanks to our editor, the great Dan Thorn.

LOST PROPHETS is a podcast about the mid-century voices of solidarity we need to hear again. To listen on your podcast player, our Spotify link is here, Apple Podcasts link is here, and RSS link is here.