Transcript
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Gissele: Hello and welcome to the love and compassion podcast with Gissele.
We believe that love and compassion have the power to heal our lives and our worlds. Don't forget to like, and subscribe for more amazing content. we're doing an amazing documentary called the courage to love. Focusing on sharing stories of those who have chosen to do the unthinkable, loving and forgiving those who are the most hurtful through their stories, we will find out what the impact of forgiving and caring for our opponents is for those doing the forgiving.
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Please look out for the information coming out in March. On today's podcast, we'll be talking about [00:01:00] punishment free parenting. Our guest today is Rebecca Wolf. She is author of the book, The Gift of a Punishment Free Childhood. She is a parenting mentor, educator, and mother. She supports parents through mentoring and workshops and navigating their parenting journeys.
Using punishment free practices, however, her most important work was raising her own children without punishment. Her extensive personal experiences, contribute to her ability to guide others on their parenting journeys. Rebecca is a certified parenting educator for the redirecting children's behavior program.
and has conducted extensive research on how punishment impacts children's behavior. Rebecca has a Ph. D. from the University of Northern Colorado in education and has been a lifelong teacher and learner. Please join me in welcoming Rebecca. Hi, Rebecca. [00:02:00] Hello.
Rebecca: Thank you,
Gissele: Giselle. As I was saying to you before, I love your book.
Absolutely love it. I wish I had found this book earlier in my parenting experience. Because I feel like my husband and I really had to struggle to learn by making lots of mistakes with our kids.
So I wish we had found your book. And so I was strongly encouraging my listeners, especially who are starting out in the parenting journey, or even if they have kids today, because you talk about teens to get it. Can you tell the audience a little bit about how you decided to go punishment free?
Rebecca: Yeah, absolutely. So, as you shared in my biography, I was trained to work for the Redirecting Children's Behavior Parenting Workshops. And in that work, it, it, There still was punishment included, but it really started to emphasize the idea of redirecting right rather than punishing. Let's [00:03:00] redirect.
And so I had kind of this solid foundation. And but what I'll share is that it was really when I started thinking about some of the crises that we're seeing. In the world now. I live in Colorado. And so the Columbine high school shooting that happened back in 1999 was pretty impactful for me. I spent a lot of time thinking about that, thinking about that family, those parents you know, the parents on both sides, the parents of the shooters, the parents of those who lost their lives that day.
And there are many, many factors that go into a situation like that.
But
Rebecca: it was clear that the reason those two boys walked into that high school was to punish their classmates. And so I'm like, why do we think that that is the solution? And if you think about it, it's because that's what most, most children, it's how they are.
It's the relationship they have with their [00:04:00] parents. It's their primary relationship is one of love. When I misbehave, I'm punished. And if we can shift that paradigm where making a mistake or even misbehaving is actually just an opportunity to learn rather than to be punished, could we shift that paradigm around punishment?
We also know that that on a, not a significant scale, but still very important is that our adult relationships are very much informed. By how we relate to our parents. And so we see punishment in in our intimate relationships as well as relationships At work and with friends, so I decided with I had two children already who are about 10 and 12.
I was divorced and remarried and had to two fresh souls. They were brand new and 2 years old. And I said, I'm [00:05:00] going to conduct a social experiment. Can we raise children without punishment?
Gissele: I completely resonated with what you wrote about the fact that, it trickles down.
It starts in the home, right? Like we're taught to punish, we're taught to have violence. Like if you spank your children, for example, and then these individuals go out in the world. And like you said, like, if you look at everything, it is about punishment.
You, you do commit a crime, you go to jail. Like all of these things are about punishment and power. And a little bit later, I want to talk about the difference between like, I don't know, true power and force. But the first thing I did want to say was like. How courageous of you to actually even try to parent your kids without punishment, because I think one of the first thoughts that came into my head was, well, then how did you do discipline, right?
How did you navigate those difficult moments where you sometimes feel like you, you don't know what to do? can [00:06:00] you share a little bit about that?
Rebecca: Yeah, absolutely. You know, and it's, it's interesting.
Another conversation I had not too long ago, the question was, well, if you don't punish your children, they'll have no moral compass. Right? And so I think that gets at the meat of this question as well. So, you know, I had that same fear. I will be honest. I'm like, oh my gosh, am I going to just wreck these children?
But I, I had to try. And What I discovered is that once you build that relationship with your child for one, it becomes easier, but you're right in those early stages, having to be creative and having to pause and think, okay, how am I going to address this behavior? It was a little bit challenging. You know people are when they hear punishment free, they sometimes think, oh my gosh, these children are just going to run wild and, you know, they'll run the household and, and that is, not true, right?
as a parent, you're still definitely [00:07:00] parenting. You're still providing discipline, but it's really through teaching. Right. And I think it's why I love the title of your podcast, right? It is through love and compassion, right? It's being that support structure for them. You know, a child who grows up in a family where they feel supported and loved will thrive.
So much better than someone who is notI can start with an example, you know, let's say that a child is four years old, right? and you've had breakfast and like we're gonna go to the zoo today and but before we go I'm gonna put these dishes in the dishwasher and if you could put your blocks away and Then we will be ready to go.
So now it's time to go, and the blocks aren't put away. The easy answer to that, right? Because punishment is easy, and that's why we fall back on that so often. The easy thing to do is say, You're in trouble, I told you to pick [00:08:00] up those blocks. And depending on the situation, We're not going to go to the zoo today.
Or, when we get home, you're going to spend an hour in your room. Or, you know, whatever, whatever happens with that particular. Situation instead, right? Instead of reacting my kind of my three stage process, right? Is the first thing you do is just observe, right? and and describe your observation, right?
Because it's easy for us to. To go right into blame and what's wrong. So you just state calmly the observation. Hey, you know, we were going to have the house cleaned up. I was going to do dishes and you were going to clean up the blocks before we went. And I can see that the blocks aren't picked up, right?
It's just an observation. And so then, of course, the child would probably be a little sheepish or maybe come up with a few excuses. And so at that point, you would say, you know, it's going to it's important to do what you say you're going to do. And for us to work. [00:09:00] You know, to make this happen, let's take a few minutes and get these blocks cleaned up, right?
So then they feel that support, right? They feel that connection with you. You make sure that they help you, right? I'll put in one block and you throw two blocks in or whatever and get the blocks cleaned up and go have a great time at the zoo, right? And because you've built that relationship, because they're starting to see the importance of that, they are actually much less likely to not do what you've agreed to do in the future.
So your parenting as your child matures and develops actually gets easier because you have that strong relationship.
Gissele: Yeah, and this is so powerful because I think, you know, people think that the, the power over approaches, the spanking, the punishment gives them power. But the truth of the matter is it takes a lot more power, self power to stop regulate ourselves, then be able to support the child.
And I've noticed that in [00:10:00] myself, like I grew up in a household where we were hit, and. love my parents very much and they're wonderful people, but they were also people who were taught that they were taught that hitting was acceptable.
And so I remember one time when. My sister and I were getting hit. I remember noticing in my mom's face, the anger, the frustration, like it was almost like she was like you said in the book, like venting her own anger at life, at frustration things. And I remember looking at her in the face and I was like.
Wow. I never wanted to do that to my child. And I didn't really respect my parents growing up. I mean,...
