Main Justice

Andrew and Mary host this week's episode in front of a live audience at Princeton University, starting with the latest in the Kilmar Abrego Garcia case where last Tuesday, Maryland district judge Paula Xinis ordered the Trump administration to provide among other things, “butts in seats” to explain their efforts to get him back. Then they describe what led up to the Supreme Court’s early Saturday decision temporarily blocking the deportation of more Venezuelan migrants, after a flurry of back and forth between the Solicitor General and the ACLU. And being at Andrew’s alma mater, he and Mary hold up the absolute necessity of academic freedom and independence in the wake of Trump’s attempts to defund universities who do not comply with his demands. Last up, they touch on the Supreme Court granting argument in the birthright citizenship cases- not on the merits, but on whether a nationwide injunction is appropriate in this instance.

Further reading: HERE is Judge Harvie Wilkinson’s sharply worded opinion, writing for a 3-judge panel in the US Court of Appeals for the 4th Circuit, rejecting the Trump administrations effort to stop a lower court’s order that the government facilitate Kilmar Abrego Garcia's return.

Want to listen to this show without ads? Sign up for MSNBC Premium on Apple Podcasts.

Sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts to listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads. You'll also get exclusive bonus content from this and other shows.

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

The US government’s mistaken removal of Kilmar Abrego Garcia to El Salvador has captured national attention, and it’s as stunning as it is heart breaking. So Mary and Andrew dedicate the bulk of this week’s episode to what’s happened since the Supreme Court ruled that the Trump administration must follow the lower court’s order to facilitate his return. So far, the administration seems to be slow-walking the process, dodging accountability for the fact that Abrego Garcia was never afforded his due process rights, a core American principle. Andrew and Mary go on to explain each consecutive government response, and two habeas petitions that have been granted a TRO since last week's Supreme Court decision. Before wrapping up, they highlight the cancelling of a landmark civil rights deal in Alabama, and Trump’s latest retribution in action-- targeting individuals, the Associated Press and Harvard.

Further reading: Here is Mary’s OpEd in the Washington Post: It’s time to compel Justice officials to testify on Abrego García.

And please vote for your favorite MSNBC podcasts in this year’s Webby Awards:

• Prosecuting Donald Trump in the Podcasts - Crime & Justice category: VOTE HERE
• Why Is This Happening? With Chris Hayes in the Podcasts - Interview/Talk Show category: VOTE HERE
• Into America: Uncounted Millions in the Podcasts - News & Politics category: VOTE HERE

Voting closes this Thursday, April 17th.

Want to listen to this show without ads? Sign up for MSNBC Premium on Apple Podcasts.

Sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts to listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads. You'll also get exclusive bonus content from this and other shows.

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

As the Supreme Court weighs in on the president’s use of the Alien Enemies Act, Mary and Andrew approach this week's developments with both concern and relief. While relieved at the unanimity of the High Court’s belief that due process is a necessity, the concern lies with the Trump administration's response to a court order directing them to arrange the return of Kilmar Abrego Garcia, the man who was wrongfully deported to El Salvador. They also see cause for alarm after the government retaliated against their own lawyer in this case. Andrew and Mary then take a beat to spotlight the DC circuit upholding a judge’s decision related to scope of Trump’s J6 pardons. And before closing out this week’s episode, they detail the lawsuit brought by the conservative leaning NCLA over the constitutionality of the sweeping tariffs the president has announced.

Further reading: This is Mary’s recent op Ed in the Washington Post: The White House war on Big Law hits some speed bumps

And please vote for your favorite MSNBC podcasts in this year’s Webby Awards:

• Prosecuting Donald Trump in the Podcasts - Crime & Justice category: VOTE HERE
• Why Is This Happening? With Chris Hayes in the Podcasts - Interview/Talk Show category: VOTE HERE
• Into America: Uncounted Millions in the Podcasts - News & Politics category: VOTE HERE

Voting closes April 17th.

Want to listen to this show without ads? Sign up for MSNBC Premium on Apple Podcasts.

Sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts to listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads. You'll also get exclusive bonus content from this and other shows.

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Six emergency applications have now made their way to the Supreme Court concerning President Trump’s executive orders, so Andrew and Mary begin this episode by breaking down the emergency stay motions in several key cases involving birthright citizenship, federal workers, the use of the Alien Enemies Act and canceling education grants. Then, after a review of Trump’s latest law firm blacklist targets and the problematic nature of targeting of universities and students, they focus on an executive order aiming to change how U.S. elections are run. And last up, Andrew and Mary decry the lack of accountability over Signalgate, as Trump resists doling out any consequences to his senior National Security leadership.

For more on Trump’s continued attacks on universities, check out the latest episode of Trumpland with Alex Wagner about the fallout at Columbia University and maintaining free speech on campus.

Further reading: Here is the order from the DC Circuit Court of Appeals over Judge Boasberg’s TRO pausing deportations under the Alien Enemies Act, which includes separate concurring statements of Judge Henderson and Judge Millett and a dissenting statement of Judge Walker.

Want to listen to this show without ads? Sign up for MSNBC Premium on Apple Podcasts.

Sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts to listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads. You'll also get exclusive bonus content from this and other shows.

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

On this week’s episode, Andrew and Mary start with the major capitulation of the Paul, Wiess law firm to Trump’s demands late last week, in exchange for rescinding an EO targeting the firm. This is the chilling effect they’ve been talking about in action. Then: what are the consequences of the Trump administration defying court orders from US District Chief Judge James Boasberg? The deportation of Venezuelan migrants without due process seems to be careening into that constitutional question, so Andrew and Mary break down the latest on that case, as the government invokes the “state secrets privilege”. And lastly, they detail the legal issues surrounding the now-infamous Signal chat reported by The Atlantic- an extraordinary demonstration of gross negligence when it comes to national defense information. 

Further reading: 

• Here is Mary’s piece on Just Security: Dissecting the Trump Administration’s Strategy for Defying Court Orders
• And here is Andrew’s piece, also from Just Security: The New “Blacklists” Work When Law Firms Stay Silent
• And here is the criminal code Andrew and Mary referenced: 18 U.S. Code § 793 - Gathering, transmitting or losing defense information

Want to listen to this show without ads? Sign up for MSNBC Premium on Apple Podcasts.

Sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts to listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads. You'll also get exclusive bonus content from this and other shows.

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Last Friday, President Trump spoke before a gathering at the Department of Justice to lay out what was seen largely as a grievance fest, singling out individuals and media organizations he perceives as his enemies. Main Justice hosts Andrew Weissmann and Mary McCord lay plain the unorthodox nature of a speech like this, especially before a department that is meant to maintain independence from the executive branch. But that was just the start of a wild weekend, after Trump invoked the Alien Enemies Act to deport hundreds of Venezuelan migrants, just as a court order blocking their removal was filed. So, Andrew and Mary tackle the latest developments in several buckets before breaking down the Supreme Court’s consideration of the request by the president to lift the pause on his birthright citizenship executive action.

Want to listen to this show without ads? Sign up for MSNBC Premium on Apple Podcasts.

Sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts to listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads. You'll also get exclusive bonus content from this and other shows.

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

After news this weekend that Columbia student and permanent legal resident Mahmoud Khalil was arrested by ICE agents, hosts Andrew Weissmann and Mary McCord explain the petition filed from his lawyer and the significance of his case as a harbinger of things to come, as a hearing is set over the effort to deport him. Then, they shift focus to the Trump administration’s continued attacks on law firms and universities themselves, after the president cut federal funding to Columbia, and Georgetown was rebuked by the DC US Attorney for teaching principles related to diversity, equity and inclusion. Last up, Andrew and Mary review the latest in the Eric Adams case, with a shocking court filing containing texts from prosecutors, and they break down a few cases making their way through the courts right now: some of which have been touched by SCOTUS, others likely on their way to the High Court.

Want to listen to this show without ads? Sign up for MSNBC Premium on Apple Podcasts.

Sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts to listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads. You'll also get exclusive bonus content from this and other shows.

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

As a bonus for listeners, we’re sharing this week's episode from "Trumpland with Alex Wagner" on attorneys general and their legal battles against Trump's agenda. Numerous lawsuits are underway as efforts ramp up to fight against the Trump administration’s agenda, with the charge led by a select group of attorneys general. On this episode, Alex Wagner heads to Phoenix, Arizona where Democratic state attorneys general organized a town hall for citizens impacted by Trump’s executive orders and DOGE’s targeting of the federal government. Alex speaks directly with some of the AGs behind these legal efforts, including Kwame Raoul of Illinois, William Tong of Connecticut, and Letitia James of New York. Then she sits with Arizona AG Kris Mayes, the organizer of the town hall, for a look at what’s next as these attorneys continue to advocate on behalf of the U.S. Constitution and the citizens it protects.
Follow and listen to the whole series here: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/trumpland-with-alex-wagner/id1638974657

Sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts to listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads. You'll also get exclusive bonus content from this and other shows.

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

In this week’s Main Justice episode, hosts Andrew Weissmann and Mary McCord explore a disturbing pattern of the Trump administration’s attack on lawyers and what it means for the rule of law, as firings and demotions continue to reverberate around the federal government. They examine the firing of the three top nonpartisan military JAG lawyers without cause— and why Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth referred to these officers as ‘roadblocks’. They look at Trump’s decision to revoke security clearances from a law firm with ties to former Special Counsel Jack Smith. And they update a few cases on their radar, to include the firing of Hampton Dellinger as well as the latest in the case against New York City Mayor Eric Adams. And before closing, Andrew and Mary zoom out to look at how the Trump administration is redefining the US’s role in world, after voting against a UN resolution that condemned Russian aggression in Ukraine, ignoring violations of international law.

Further reading: Here is the latest statement from the ABA that Andrew spoke about: The ABA rejects efforts to undermine the courts and the legal profession.

And here is a link to the letter Andrew and Mary talked about in this episode: A Statement of Conscience and Principle By Those Who Have Served as Assistant United States Attorneys For the District of Columbia Over the Past Fifty Years.

Want to listen to this show without ads? Sign up for MSNBC Premium on Apple Podcasts.

Sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts to listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads. You'll also get exclusive bonus content from this and other shows.

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

In a news cycle that keeps on churning, Main Justice hosts Andrew Weissmann and Mary McCord wade through the nonstop dispatches to set some focal points for this episode. They begin with the hearing held by Judge Dale Ho last week over the Eric Adams dismissal and the Judge’s appointment of Paul Clement as amicus, a.k.a. a friend of the court. Andrew details the important decisions Judge Ho has before him as Mary drives home why this case will reverberate beyond the embattled New York Mayor. Then, they touch on the latest resignation- this one, from Denise Cheung, the chief of the criminal division in the DC US Attorney’s office, after being asked to do something by the administration she believed was unsupportable.  And last up, Andrew and Mary look at the Supreme Court denial of a stay in the case involving Trump’s firing of Hampton Dellinger, and the disconnect between DOJ representations about Elon Musk’s role in court versus what Musk is saying and doing in practice.

Further reading: Here is Andrew’s piece on Just Security: Why the Rule of Law Depends on an Evidentiary Hearing in Mayor Eric Adams’ Case.

And HERE is the letter of resignation from the head of the criminal division in the U.S. attorney’s office in D.C.

Want to listen to this show without ads? Sign up for MSNBC Premium on Apple Podcasts.

Sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts to listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads. You'll also get exclusive bonus content from this and other shows.

Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.