"Technology does a really good job of floating us past all of these inconvenient blessings." - John Mark McMillan 

Today on the show, singer-songwriter John Mark Mcmillan joins me to talk about his new music, technology's impact on the arts, confessing to an AI Jesus, and recovering a sense of meaning in our disenchanted world. 

If you’ve listened to the Makers and Mystics podcast or have been to any of our Breath and Clay events, then you’ll know that John Mark is no stranger to our community. He’s been a part of the Breath and Clay and Makers and Mystics world since the beginning. We love keeping up with his creative work and appreciate his voice to this community. 

John Mark will be bringing his full band to perform some of the new songs for the first time ever in public at The Breath and The Clay March 21-23, 2025. 

Topics:

The Impact of Technology on The Arts

AI Jesus

How we experience music together

Links/Resources: 

Connect with John Mark

Book Mention: I'll Take You There: Pop Music and The Urge for Transcendence by Bill Friskics-Warren

AI Jesus Article

Kosuke Koyama Book

The Breath and The Clay 

This episode offers a preview of the types of panels we'll be hosting at The Breath and The Clay 2025. It includes a live conversation with Grammy Award-winning singer/songwriter Victory Boyd, gospel recording artist Leeland Mooring, visual artist and curator Corey Frey, and podcast host Stephen Roach.

This conversation was recorded live at the Resound Creative Arts event in Boulder, Colorado.

Reserve Your Spot at The Breath and The Clay March 21-23 in Winston Salem, NC.

In this series of conversations, Makers and Mystics will highlight several of the presenters and themes for the BC25 creative arts gathering, March 21-23, in Winston Salem, NC. 

Today’s guest is Theo-poet and mystic Dr. de’Angelo DIA.  The conversation explores the intersections of poetry, theology, and personal experience. DIA discusses how his early exposure to literature and comic book mythology shaped his understanding of sacredness and black charismatic spirituality. Stephen Roach highlights BC25 themes of fragmentation and wholeness, the search for the divine in secular spaces, and the influence of neo-Appalachian art on DIA’s work.

Learn more about Dr. de’Angelo DIA

Get Tickets to BC25

Join the Makers and Mystics Creative Collective 

Treat us to a cup of coffee for our work on the podcast. 

In the season 14 finale of Makers and Mystics, Stephen Roach reflects on the theme of reclaiming wonder. Drawing from personal stories, spiritual insights, and the wisdom shared by this season’s guests, Stephen examines how we can rediscover awe and beauty in our everyday lives, even in a world that often feels disconnected from the miraculous.

Stephen closes the episode with a thought-provoking insight: Wonder is not just an experience; it’s an invitation. It’s the residue of the divine, a call to transformation, and a reminder that we are made for more than survival. When we open ourselves to wonder, we become what we behold and begin to see the possibility for beauty and meaning in every corner of life.

Get Tickets to The Breath and The Clay

Join the Makers and Mystics Creative Collective

Help us continue our work with a one-time donation.

Myths and storytelling have been a part of human culture since ancient times. From the oral traditions of indigenous peoples to the epic tales of gods and heroes, stories have shaped our understanding of the world, our place in it, and our deepest desires.

For artists, these narratives offer more than a glimpse into the past—they are a source of guidance, inspiration, and meaning. 

In this final conversation of our ‘Reclaiming Wonder’ series, I am joined by renowned storyteller, mythologist and Christian thinker Martin Shaw.

In our conversation, Martin and I discuss the profound relationship between storytelling and the arts. Martin shares the importance of allowing stories to remain wild, to breathe, and not become domesticated by rushing to interpretation. We discuss the concept of being 'wedded to the wild' and the role of artists in re-wilding faith.

You can learn more about Martin’s work here

You can explore our library of over 300 episodes with artists, mystics, theologians, and creative thinkers at http://www.makersandmystics.com

Thank you to everyone who has followed along in this series of conversations. I’d love to hear from you. Which conversations inspired you most? Which ones did you wrestle with or skip over? Send me a line, and if you want to go deeper into these conversations, please consider joining our creative collective at http://www.patreon.com/makersandmystics

We’d love to have you with us. 

I hope to meet you all at The Breath and The Clay event March 21-23, in Winston Salem, NC.

When you see me, come say hi. You’ll be in good company with other artists and creative seekers such as John Mark McMillan, Amanda Cook, Sho Baraka, Joshua Luke Smith, Kendra Apache, Elissa Weichbrodt and many others. 

The new year is a time of reflecting, looking back over the lengths I’ve come, evaluating what has transpired in my life and in my inner life, and then looking ahead, seeking clarity and direction for where I will place my time, resources and attention for the months to come.  

I find that a large part of transitioning from one moment in time to another involves letting go of the past, often grieving our losses, and making peace with the life we have rather than pining after the life we thought we would have or wanted to have. Then, through the mystery of the process, finding wonder even in grief, and in the midst of ordinary life. 

My guest today is someone who has seen grief and loss in her own life and who also helps others on their journey through grief. She is one who has learned to recognize wonder in the most unexpected places, like grief and in letting go of the past. Her journey has led her through many different faith practices as well as her creative life has taken on many shapes and forms.  

Today, I’m speaking with Award-winning author, contemporary translator of sacred literature, international speaker, and world-renowned teacher of contemplative practice and inter-spiritual dialog, Mirabai Starr. 

This conversation was recorded earlier in 2024, but I think as we move into this new year, the conversation offers a timely invitation to find beauty even amidst our losses and to hold space for the every day to become a place of spiritual and creative transformation.  

Much of our conversation centers on grief as an unexpected doorway to wonder. Mirabai shares about her most recent book, Ordinary Mysticism, which Ann Lamont calls a gorgeous, transformative, welcoming book for anyone who longs to feel more present, more alive, more joyful, and aware of the holiness of daily life.

Patrons of the podcast can enjoy a longer unedited version of this conversation which includes several additional stories of my own and several from Mirabai.  Visit Patreon.com/makersandmystics to learn more.

GET TICKETS TO THE BREATH AND THE CLAY MARCH 21-23 2025.  

Wesley Vander Lugt is a pastor, theologian, writer, and arts advocate. He teaches theology and directs the Leighton Ford Center for Theology, the Arts and Gospel Witness at Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary in Charlotte North Carolina. Wes holds a PhD in Theology, Imagination and the Arts from the University of St Andrews, and his latest books are Beauty is Oxygen: Finding a Faith that Breathes and the forthcoming A Prophet in the Darkness: Exploring Theology in the Art of Georges Rouault.

In my conversation with Wes, we discuss his latest book Beauty Is Oxygen and the role beauty plays in our experiences of wonder. 

This episode is sponsored by The Breath and The Clay Creative Arts Organization, exploring the intersections of art, faith and culture. Our next gathering is March 21-23 in Winston Salem, NC. and features a diverse roster of presenters and performers, including Sho Baraka, Amanda Cook, John Mark McMillan, and many others.  Tickets are on sale now at thebreathandtheclay.com

The Breath and The Clay is returning to Winston Salem, NC!! Join us March 21-23rd, 2025, for our annual creative arts gathering!

This event will feature musical performances, an immersive art gallery, keynote talks, various workshops, and community discussions.

Participating artists include Sho Baraka, Kendra Adachi, John Mark McMillan, Molly Parden, Justin McRoberts, and many, many others.

You can find out more about the event and reserve your spot today at thebreathandtheclay.com.

Visual Artists and Film-makers! Submit your works for inclusion in our immersive art gallery here.

Follow the event on Instagram for regular updates @thebreathandtheclay

Rob Bell is the New York Times Best-Selling author of fourteen books and plays, which have been translated into 25 languages. His visual art can be seen on Instagram @realrobbell. His band is HUMANS ON THE FLOOR, and his podcast is The RobCast. 

Today on Makers and Mystics, Rob and I are talking about his Interplanetary tale of love, loss, and bread, his sci-fi fantasy novel Where’d You Park Your Spaceship.

In our conversation, we discuss following creative tangents and the long curiosity that keeps inviting us to follow them. 

This episode is sponsored by The Breath and The Clay Creative Arts Organization. Our next gathering is March 21-23 in Winston Salem NC. Tickets are on sale now. 

Katherine May is an internationally renowned writer, podcaster and speaker whose work touches on nature, spirituality, slow living and neurodivergence.

Her hybrid memoir Wintering was a global bestseller, adapted as BBC Radio 4’s Book of the Week, and shortlisted for the Porchlight and Barnes & Noble Book of the Year. Her most recent title, Enchantment became an instant New York Times bestseller.  

In our conversation Katherine and I discuss the common need for rediscovering pathways into enchantment and wonder. We discuss her concept of wintering and how even our most difficult times can become sources of creative and spiritual nourishment.  

Patrons of the podcast can enjoy an exclusive segment of our conversation where Katherine and I unpack the phrase “secular mystic” as she’s described in the inner sleeve of Wintering.  

I’d like to personally invite you to join us at The Breath and The Clay creative arts gathering March 21-23 2025 in Winston Salem, NC. Get Tickets here.