Making Business Matter (MBM)

Sticky Learning Lunches #4: Use Your New-Found Time Productively Whilst Working From Home

Get the secret to having laser-like on your productivity with episode 4 of the Sticky Learning Lunches.

You Can Read the Full Transcript Below:

Nathan Simmonds:

Good afternoon everybody. Slight technical hitch and we still made it at one and a half minutes, just over the start time. So we are just getting prepared. People are still arriving. Nice number of people here. Ready? Again, just making sure that everyone is ready. Bottle of drink, water, herbal tea, whatever it is, you need to keep it going. Staying hydrated, sun's out to make sure we're looking after ourselves. Also, pens and paper at the ready as well.

Nathan Simmonds:

We'll give it another 30 seconds while we're waiting for people to come in. Couple more of people arriving. Fantastic heads up. Gonna give you, um, a little bit of a intro for the end of those. Those of you that are staying till the end of the session today, we've got a little bit of bonus material for you, which I'm really excited to be sharing some new coaching tips and tools, um, from the the MBM lab and also gonna openly invite you guys that are arriving now, get registered for Tuesday's session.

Where to start when working from home?

 

Nathan Simmonds:

So these lunchtime learnings, these, these sticky lunch, learn lunchtime learnings are gonna continue for as long as you guys need it. For as long as we're in this situation in lockdown, we're gonna be doing a one o'clock session, a 20 minute micro learning with q and a every single day until things go back to some sort of normal, whatever that might look like in the future. So right now we're gonna share the link. Alison, you can't hear me. We have some challenges with this. Can anyone, can? Who? Is there anyone else that can't hear me? Crash? Anyone else? Can't hear me?

Nathan Simmonds:

Can hear you fine. Okay. Can hear me throwing my drink all down myself. It's a good look. We might have to edit that one out for the, uh, the upload. Just saying, Alison, just double check your speaker and your volume. I just had to do a complete system, shut down and then come back into this. Um, because we had some technical challenges there, but the reboot seemed to help. Apparently it cures 98% of all problems. Um, if you speak to your IT service desk, um, I'm not sure about that though. Highly debatable.

Nathan Simmonds:

So make sure everyone else has got a drink 'cause I now don't. Good. So the first thing I wanna share with you guys is the link for next Tuesday's learning. Okay, Alison, you might have to go out and come back in. Computer audio should be the right one. Double check your headphone port, all of those sorts of things. Take it out, put it back in, everything like that. If not, come out of GoToWebinar, come back into it afresh and see if that works.

Nathan Simmonds:

So next we're gonna be dealing with, we're gonna continue to look at the mindset model today. Um, we're gonna be looking at D which is about deliverables. Now on Tuesday when we're gonna come back to this, we're gonna be looking at space, which is gonna be talking about our environment. So we're gonna share the link for next Tuesday's session. So you can plug into that immediately and get registered for that session. It's gonna come up immediately at the beginning of the next working week. Okay, I think we're good to go Alison. We will return back shortly, I feel. Brilliant. Let's go, let's do this. Let's make sure we've got some good cover pens.

Nathan Simmonds:

Keep those in the pocket. Fantastic. So guys, welcome aboard. Welcome to this lunchtime learning. Really appreciate you being here. I'm looking forward to sharing the content from today. Picked up some gems this morning. I'm looking forward to sharing those with you as well. So good. Welcome to Sticky lunchtime sticky learning lunches. This is MBM, the Home of Sticky Learning. And we are the soft skills provider to the UK grocery and manufacturing industry.

Nathan Simmonds:

And it's all about sharing ideas and concepts that are gonna help you be the best version of yourself, especially in a time of crisis like this. But also at the same, same time, future proofing you, your mindset, your development, and how we are gonna be working in this brave new world. Let's not kid ourselves. We are not gonna be working the same. When all of this comes to some sort of end, our lives will be completely different, there'll be more homeworkers. Um, the way that we focus on our work will be different.

Nathan Simmonds:

And we're gonna talk a bit about this today and how industry is gonna change. 'cause if it doesn't, there's gonna be some major challenges for businesses and corporations moving forward if they think they can go back to how they were working previously. Okay, before this situation, what are we gonna be covering today? Closing the door just in case we get a little visitor of a 7-year-old. So what are we gonna be covering today? We are gonna be covering deliverables.

Nathan Simmonds:

We've already covered the managing side of it, managing some of your focus, your routines, uh, certain elements here. We've talked about cabin fever through isolation and actually how some of us are already experiencing some of those symptoms. We talked a little bit yesterday about making sure that we're staying neat and looking at our wardrobe and seeing how we make sure we separate the right elements of our wardrobe, uh, and make sure that we're using that wardrobe wardrobe to focus our thinking and to create habits that are gonna help us move from one aspect of our life into another so that we don't blur it.

Nathan Simmonds:

So we're not wearing the relax, the relaxed clothes while we're doing work. And take on that physiology and psychology of that clothing into our, our our routines. Today's session is about deliverables. It's about actually what you are delivering and how you deliver that and how you have those conversations and make that happen. The first thing we're gonna cover today, and I wanna bring some clarity to this for you,

Nathan Simmonds:

Is one of the, the business staples and personal development staples, smart objectives. So guys, go crazy. Break it down. Tell me what smart means in the comments. What elements of, um, what are the, what does the S stand for? The m let's get those in the comments and get those moving first of all, and we'll see what's working, what's not working, and then how I can help you tweak and adjust that to actually get even more out of that model, that framework to help you focus even further. 'cause I guarantee some of you're using it in a way which is actually holding you back.

Nathan Simmonds:

And I want to change that right now today and, and make that really exceptional for you. So in the chat box in the questions, what does smart stand for? If you wanna do break it down one at a time. Go. Come on people. Let's see some fingers moving. I'm gonna get this up on the board. Can we see that just about still got a little bit of sunshine or we've got, we've got specific measurable, achievable, relevant, good time targeted, nice, realistic. We dropped in there as well. Good. Any more for any more

Nathan Simmonds:

Realistic? Good. Agreed. Nice. We've got some different elements. There are a few different perme uh, permeations of this, a kind of few different variants of the smart model and it's really important that we use the right elements of it at the right time. So when we are planning out our time, it's really important that we break these into two parts. The first thing is smart objectives. Yes, smart goals. No. So let's look at this. So the first part is about it being specific.

Nathan Simmonds:

Your goals and your objectives have to be specific. Yeah, they say vague goals lead to vague results. So you have to have absolute clarity on what you are working on and the elements that need to be adjusted, where you are going to this, um, who's involved, all these sorts of questions. And we're going to gonna share a link also in, in the chat box, there is an article on the MBM website all about smart objectives and we're gonna share that. So you've got that as a takeaway for today. The second one is measurable. Make sure my spelling's good.

Nathan Simmonds:

How will you know where you are in relation to the top of the mountain? This specific part is which mountain are you climbing? The measurable part is how do you know where you are in relation to the top of the mountain? How far have you got to go? Um, what elements are required? Or you know, what distance can be clear today that you know. So in the point of three days, four days, five days, you are on track to get to where you said you were going.

Nathan Simmonds:

These are the measurable elements and I'm gonna come back to um, some texts I've got here. Some interesting facts I've learned, um, over the last few months. It's what gets measured gets done. So if you can see, um, how you want to get fit, you wanna run a certain distance, okay, I want to get this fit, I want to be able to run this distance in this time, um, with this sort of recovery. And you put the specific details in there. Then the measurable part is how you're gonna clear that distance and how you're gonna make those improvements over time. The third part

Nathan Simmonds:

Is it achievable. So what have we got in here? We've got agreed as well. Achievable is the common one agreed on. Also, is it achievable? Can I do that? Is it structured in a way? Um, so that I can take bite-sized chunks out of this objective? Because if it isn't, you need to go back to the drawing board and at that point break it down a little bit further. Maybe put another step in that's gonna move you closer towards it. Um, and I'm not sure who the quote was.

Nathan Simmonds:

You know, one man's, um, stepping stone is another man's stumbling block....

Sticky Learning Lunches #3: 3 Principles to Know What to Wear When You Are Working From Home

Understand the ‘3 Wardrobe Principles’ to make it easy to know what to wear when you are working from home. Use your time working from home to become the very best version of yourself.

You Can Read the Full Transcript Below:

Nathan Simmonds:

Good afternoon everyone. We're just waiting for a few people to turn up. There were a couple of minutes early, so I just wanted to get this, get the broadcast going, get you into the room and as those extra people start to arrive, we'll then kick this off promptly at one o'clock. So I'm just gonna put myself on mute. Uh, turn my camera off just for couple of minutes.

Nathan Simmonds:

While we're waiting for those last few to getting, do, make sure that you've got a drink, whatever you need, make sure you're hydrated. The sun's come out in here in the uk, so making sure you've got plenty of water, making sure you've got a pen and pad ready for this. Okay, so a couple more minutes and then we're gonna start. So I was gonna put myself on mute again and I'll be back with you in a minute.

What to wear when working from home

 

Nathan Simmonds:

Coming back in now. Alright, where is that button? There we go. Good afternoon everybody. Really great to be here again, great to be sharing some insights with you and sharing some new concepts to help really support those newly working at home and even some of those people that have been working at home for a while with some different ideas to keep you focused and even the people that are working at home in a crisis to really help keep them focused as well so I can maintain that thinking that's gonna help us get the best possible results. It's great to see you on again.

Nathan Simmonds:

I know we've got some repeat attenders, which is really, really nice to see. Really hope you got value from the previous sessions. And if you haven't seen the previous sessions, they are now up on YouTube. So we will share the links with 'em. If you wanna go back and have a look, that'd be, you know, there's some great value and great content in there that's gonna help continue to support you in a different way using this model we've got, which is the mindset model that we've set up for working and at home. Make sure the right angle there. Good. Everyone drinks? Everyone got fresh iPad? Make sure you've got pen, paper ready to go. Okay,

Nathan Simmonds:

What are we covering today? Today we are gonna be covering the n from mindset, which is about neat. This is about making sure that we're working, um, our wardrobe in the best possible way and making sure that we are, we are dressing for the job that we are doing or the, or the job that we want to be doing while we're in working in this arena and making sure we're bringing that to life mentally as well as physically. Firstly, my name's Nathan Simmons. For those of you who haven't been here before, my name is Nathan Simmons.

Nathan Simmonds:

I'm the senior leadership coach and trainer at MBM Making Business matter, which the home of sticky learning. And we are the soft skills provider to the UK grocery and manufacturing industry. I come with over 20 years of leadership experience and some reasonably hard learned lessons around homeworking and also leadership.

Nathan Simmonds:

So these are the ideas. We wanna share these concepts with you so that you can get the best of these experiences and practically apply them in what you are doing right now, immediately applicable concepts that are gonna support you to be the best version of yourself. Okay, so today, neat, the m from mindset. Let's make sure we get that out there for you guys. Number one we've got on here that I've written down is to separate your wardrobe. What do we mean by this?

Nathan Simmonds:

As I said just now, it's about dressing for the job that you are doing. It's about not getting those elements confused. Now you don't go to work dressed in your gym clothes and you don't go to the gym dressed in your work clothes because it's not gonna have the desired effect. 'cause if you're going to the gym in your suit, you're gonna tear your shirt when you're trying to do, uh, trying to use the rowing machine. And if you're going to work in your gym clothes, people aren't gonna take you seriously if you're sitting there in your shorts.

Nathan Simmonds:

So it's really important that we start to understand and separate those elements so that we can mentally, if we need to, depending on our working arena, is put that outfit on. So it helps us to think clearer when we're in that space. So what we need to do is break it into three key areas so that we can help to, uh, to, to focus that attention in the right area. The first is

Nathan Simmonds:

Going out close is the best way to put it is the clothes that we wanna wear when we're going out and enjoying things or maybe going to an event. Now that's a little bit more challenging here at this point in time because we're in lockdown as it were. But when we go back to isolation, one of the key points from isolation was arranging events. So even if you want to do a zoom call with a friend or do a pub quiz dress in the clothes that you would wear, if you were gonna do that, make the effort to bring that psychology and and physiology back.

Nathan Simmonds:

When you put those outfits on the second wardrobe, choice is gonna be your relaxation wardrobe. So how many people here right now, yes or no are meant to be working? Hands up with a yes. Say yes if you are, you are meant to be working right now. I'm one I'm, you can see me working. You got some yeses coming up, Colin? Yes. Thank you Colin. David. Nice.

Nathan Simmonds:

I wanna make this window wider so I can see people's. There we go. How many people are wearing a normally wear a shirt to work and are wearing a shirt? Now let's have some more yeses and nos up there. Are people actually wearing their work clothes? Darren say, yes, Colin, no sports shirt. Okay, is that normal attire for you, Colin, for work or how's that working? At the moment

Nathan Simmonds:

What you may find is when you put the you mixer, no figure your shirt like here, is depending on how you are working and the meetings that you are going to, what you may find is as you put a more relaxed attire and you may start to find, you start to relax more. So you may start to sit as if you are watching television rather than paying attention to a meeting. So you need to be aware of the psychology and physiology of how your brain is working in this space.

Nathan Simmonds:

So when we want to, when we want to make sure that we're doing the right thing, sometimes we have to put the right clothes on to mix and match that. So the first outfit choices are the going out smart and and smart, casual, whatever, going out, out type clothes. The second one is your relaxation, your third one is your work clothes.

Nathan Simmonds:

So what is it you are gonna be wearing to work? What do you normally wear to work? And making sure that you keep the, the, there's a differentiation between those things because like I say, the psychology that goes with that, with that outfit can dictate how you sit biologically in the chair. How you approach a conversation.

Nathan Simmonds:

How many people here then have mixed up their wardrobe? Colin's done it a little bit. How many people are mixing up their wardrobe at this point in time? Yes. Mixing question for you David. Have you found that, you know, depending what sort of meetings you're going to, are you wearing smarter attire for certain meetings if it's a conference call or are you still mixing and matching as you're doing this?

Nathan Simmonds:

Yes. Mixing. Okay, good. Check how you feel physiologically with this and psychologically, depending on the, the, the necessity of the meeting, the seriousness of that meeting, think about actually what you wanna bring to that address code is dress for your day. So dress appropriately to what you have. Uh, why Guys, hold on. It's gonna make that chat box bigger. Uh, come on.

Nathan Simmonds:

Okay, so dress appropriately Good. Think about when we're doing this. So the first thing we want to do as if I'm training on dress smart. Good. So when you're delivering training content, absolutely separate the wardrobe. 1, 2, 3, going out, relaxing, doing work. This is the first thing. The second element we wanna start bringing to this is actually preparing our wardrobe.

Nathan Simmonds:

What do I mean by this? What's one of the first things you do if you are working away from home or you are going to a hotel? What's the first thing you do when you get into that hotel room or one of the first things you do with your wardrobe when you get into that hotel room? Let's see some answers over here. What do we do for those people that work away from home? There should be a fairly quick response. Unpack. Thank you very much Christopher. Absolutely do hang, show up so it's presentable. Perfect. So we're starting to prepare a wardrobe, aren't we?

Nathan Simmonds:

What normally happens is, you know, you full well what's gonna be going on tomorrow. So you are in an alien environment, you get your clothes out and you put them where they need to be. You hang your shirt up so I know where it is. I put my, you know, socks and underwear over here. I put this element here so that the moment I get up I can go to the bathroom, do what I need to do, get dressed in the clothes and walk out the door to breakfast. So we create a set routine when we're in that alien environment and it's the same we need to do with our workloads as well.

Nathan Simmonds:

Prepare ourselves mentally to get out of bed at home and working in this alien environment. Our clothes are ready for us so that we can walk straight into them, put them on, we put the mindset in gear and then we go and do good work. So this is hugely important....

Sticky Learning Lunch #2: How to Overcome Isolation When Cabin Fever is Starting to Take Hold

Understand the 3 stages of isolation and how to overcome them, when cabin fever is starting to take hold. Use your time working from home to become the very best version of yourself.

You Can Read the Full Transcript Below:

Nathan Simmonds:

Amazing. Welcome everybody. I'm just watching the screen on the right hand side here. We've got a few more people coming in. Gonna give it another minute just to let any of those people that have signed up come in and uh, attend and take part in this. So let's make sure you've got kind of 30, 30 to 60 seconds. Let's make sure you've guys got drinks. So you've got your fluids in front of you and I haven't got mine's. Grab mine ringing out the last of that teabag.

Nathan Simmonds:

Let's also make sure what we're doing is let's get ourselves set up for success for the next 20 to 30 minutes. Making sure everyone get the phones out, get your phones on flight mode. He says we're on flight mode. Zero distractions. You've got your drinks in front of you, phones on flight mode. Any of you that don't need to be on your social media right now, if you've got LinkedIn, if you've got Facebook, if you've got WhatsApp, open on anything, let's turn those off.

Working from home comes with its cons

 

Nathan Simmonds:

Let's get maximum attention into where we are right now. I wanna share some ideas with you guys that are gonna really help, quite frankly to keep you sane in these times, especially when you are working from home. Okay, so this is gonna be super important. Zero distractions, absolute focus. Full attention on where we're going. Good. Couple more people come into the room.

Nathan Simmonds:

It's nice. So phones off, drinks in front of you. Next thing notepads. Nice clean sheet. Let's get your notepads in front of you. Pen, paper ready so you can start to take some notes. Any of the ideas that I share today, I want you to make a note of them, doodle it down, put the key words down so that when you read this again afterwards or you've got any questions later, that you can fire this up really quickly, that it sparks a new level of imagination and thinking when you're going back through that, oh yeah, I remember Nathan said that, or I remember someone asked this.

Nathan Simmonds:

Bring that back to your memory. So it's continually helping you to learn more about the content even after the event. Good. Got a good handful of people here. Let's do this. So welcome. This is Sticky Lunches. The sticky learning lunches.

Nathan Simmonds:

It's gonna be 20 minutes of content to help you be the best version of yourself in these times. Okay? Huge amounts of change going on, huge volumes of transition and transformation that are taking place right now. So this is a great time for us to really excel in ourselves. My name's Nathan Simmons and I'm senior leadership coach for the team at NBM. And I'm gonna bring you a series of 20 minute learnings, micro lessons with q and a at the end of it over the next 3, 4, 5, 6 weeks.

Nathan Simmonds:

Whatever's required for you guys to help you do that and help you accomplish and help you succeed in working from home. 'cause we're the home of sticky learning and we wanna make this stuff stick. We wanna make sticky lunches stick. So what we're covering today, the key thing that we're covering today is the eye from the mindset model.

Nathan Simmonds:

I stands for isolation Bonus points. First question to you guys in the chat question box where you wanna go? Name three stories or films that talk about isolation. Three films or three stories that talk about isolation. And the reason I'm doing this, and the reason I'm asking is 'cause these story, these stories and these ideas are gonna help you, absolutely. Gonna help you to focus on because they're teaching you stuff. So when you are watching Castaway, when you are reading Robinson Cruso, yeah, when you are looking at these films, they're showing you what's gonna happen in your psyche as you go into these experiences.

Nathan Simmonds:

So we can learn lessons from these fictional characters through their experiences is what film and media is all about. Truly isolation, cabin fever. This might have been more of a horror, horror film rather than a, a , than a true life story of how these things, I am legend. Amazing shout on that one Toy story. Two interesting point. I like it.

Nathan Simmonds:

Again, it is just the flavor of what's gonna happen for us when we look at I am legend. What happened to him psychologically from those extended periods of time, quite literally working from home surrounded by, you know, crazy mutants with only his dog for company that eventually leaves him. And he's thinking about these elements that, you know, what is it showing us right now in this variant of that theme? I'm trying to find the right word for it.

Nathan Simmonds:

You know, what we are doing right now is, is it's like being on a continuum. We're at the very far end of the continuum, the easy version of that, not surrounded by mutants depending on where we work quite possibly right now though, we're working from home, we have a choice, we have a possibility to connect with people. What we need to understand is we need to understand these three stages that commonly come up when we do work from home.

Nathan Simmonds:

And then what we're gonna do is give you five tips to help you overcome cabin fever. So what's the first thing that we see in these three stages when we're working from home? We have these, it's a new experience. It's like being on your school holidays for the first time and really knowing what that's worth. And your mum gives you a list of chores to do and you, you're on home at home and your parents have gone to work and you're like, ah, the house is mind, what can I do?

Nathan Simmonds:

And then you get, you know, yeah, action movie out. You know, you are, you, you're 15, 14, 15, and you get the action movie, got the 18 rated, uh, Arnold Schwarzenegger movie. And you're sitting there watching that and go, ah, this is the life I'm, it's gonna eat crystal day and watch Arnold Schwarzenegger movies.

Nathan Simmonds:

And, and then all of a sudden it's four o'clock and you've still got this list of chores to do. And then you suddenly go into freak out, I've got all this work to do, mom's gonna be home in half an hour. The place is a mess. And you go absolutely crazy. It's the same experience. What happens is we have this sensation of freedom first and foremost, and we dunno quite what to do with it. It's all too much.

Nathan Simmonds:

It's all too overwhelming. This's this vast space of what we can do or not do. And then all of a sudden it turns into guilt. I haven't done anything. And we start kicking ourselves and giving ourselves a hard time. And we, what happens is we tend to fluctuate from one to the other. We go from freedom to guilt, to guilt, to freedom. Ah, we don't know quite what to do.

Nathan Simmonds:

And I've done this myself. Now given those first opportunities to work from home, it's like, well, I've got all this work to do. Yeah, but I've got three weeks to do it. Maybe I'll do half an hour. And then you get to three o'clock and you're like, right, sudden surge of energy and you, you do three hours work and an hour and a half you're like, why didn't I do that at nine o'clock? So you constantly kind of berating yourself and, and trying to enjoy yourself, but berate yourself at the same time. So there's constant pushed call.

Nathan Simmonds:

The second stage we have is then when we start to get into this and we start to understand it's what we call busy, busy, busy. You now know what you know about the space that you've got and how long have you guys been doing this? Let me know in the comments, how long have you guys so far been working from home in this current situation? How long have you been isolating for? Let's see how long people are out there for?

Nathan Simmonds:

Three weeks. I think we're on the cusp of our fourth week here at the Simmons household since the 18th of March. Crikey. So we're starting to get a flow of what working from home was like. So it's about 315 years. Really? Yeah. So three and a half weeks like this. Some of us have been doing it for a long time. These are new experiences. Now we're starting to find that that operating rhythm, the cadence, the flow of what we're doing, and all of a sudden we've, we've shifted out of this freedom, guilt cycle and we're now in busy, busy, busy.

Nathan Simmonds:

And we're getting to the office and we're getting up half past eight and we, we work through and all of a sudden we realize we've missed lunch and it's six 30 and we haven't helped our significant others, um, arranging dinner. Then when we go downstairs, we, we know, we get the, the the frustrated look of who, where have you been all day when we've already been in the house for so long together.

Nathan Simmonds:

So we go from one to the other. We start to overwork ourselves, we start to overcompensate. We've got all this time, I can be super productive. How much can I get done? And we try and ram as much as we can into that tiny little space. But, but then potentially, like I say, we start to overwork. We start to put stress and strain onto our family space because we are thinking we should be getting more done.

Nathan Simmonds:

We feel like maybe that guilt piece is, are we doing enough or are we being observed in our own perception for the amount of work we are or aren't doing? So we try and overcompensate by doing too much. It causes damage to our relationships and our own psyche in this space. The third part stage that we need to get to is quite simply, it's the balance. So what we do is we go from the guilt to the freedom to the busy, busy, busy.

Nathan Simmonds:

And then we go, ah, right, I don't have to answer that email right now....

Sticky Learning Lunches #1: How to Be More Productive Whilst Working From Home

Find out how to manage yourself better with 'M' - The first of 7 best practices from the M.I.N.D.S.E.T model for working remotely and how to be more productive whilst working from home.

You Can Read the Full Transcript Below:

Nathan Simmonds:

Amazing. So we're just, we're a couple of minutes early, we're just seeing who's arriving. Let's make sure we're setting ourselves up for success. Give this a few minutes just while other people are starting to come in. This is the first day back from the Easter weekend. I definitely feel like it's the first day back at school. Good to see you guys coming in. Like, as I've said before, let's make sure we've got drinks available. Let's make sure we've got clean notepads and pens before we dive into this.

Nathan Simmonds:

Gonna make sure I've got some pens in the pockets. Colin, great to see you again. Andy. Thanks for being here. Few of the last people coming in. 30 more seconds. I'm watching the clock. 30 more seconds and then we're gonna dive into this and cover some key things around your workspace, especially when you're working from home. There's gonna be some key points here that you may not be thinking about.

Improve your soft skills with our sticky learning lunch videos

 

Nathan Simmonds:

There's gonna be some things that you know you might be thinking about and we're gonna try and tweak those and, and make them a little bit more, um, a little bit more clear for you and take 'em off another level to really support you, that you are getting the best out, the spaces that you are working in, right? I said drinks, pens, and papers. We will do questions through this. First of all, first question, while we're waiting for any last couple of people to join in, did everyone have a good Easter?

Nathan Simmonds:

Yes. We've got some yeses coming in. My question box is not working very well. Bear with me. Real thanks. Yeah, no, thanks for asking. So I appreciate it. I had a glorious one. The weather here was phenomenal. We're down in Hastings and it was beautiful for some reason. I have, I can only see one question. It's doing weird things on my question box. So I may have some challenges with that later, but we'll work that out later.

Nathan Simmonds:

Yeah, so I spent the, uh, a couple of days on the vegetable patch, growing vegetables and, and tidying things up, right? We're all here. I think this is good to go. We're gonna go in, gonna share some ideas. Welcome all. This is the Sticky Learning Lunches from Nathan Simmons here at MBM Making Business Matter. We are the home, well we are the leadership, uh, and soft skills providers to the UK grocery and manufacturing industry.

Nathan Simmonds:

And right now, while we're in this lockdown situation and we're working from home in these changing dynamics in this brave new world we're in, we're gonna be sharing 20 minutes of learning with you every single workday, uh, for as long as you guys need it. And sharing some core concepts and leadership skills that are gonna help you to be the best possible version of yourself while you can be while you are working in these new spaces.

Nathan Simmonds:

Bear with me just trying to find, fix some final elements of my question boxes. 'cause it is not playing the game. Right guys, let's do this. I'm gonna come off the screen share. So you've just got, uh, the background of me

Nathan Simmonds:

And dive into this. Come on, play the game, right? We're good. We're live, we're in. So today what we're gonna do is we're gonna continue to focus on the mindset model. Last week we already picked up on, um, managing some of our routines and our, and certain elements of our working from home. We also talked about isolation. The, the symptoms of cabin fever. We talked about work wear, how to make sure you are dressing for where you are mentally and physically. And also talks about deliverables.

Nathan Simmonds:

Today what we're gonna be doing is we're gonna be focusing in now on our space and about how you can make sure that you are getting the most out of where you are working in the nicest possible way. We didn't choose to work from home. We're being forced into this space. What it's about is maximizing what it is you are doing, where you are working, and how that's working for you. For the first part, number one, he says

Nathan Simmonds:

The spelling might be out. I think, uh, association, we'll work that out later. The law of association. What does this mean? This means that when you do something and you build a habit over a course of time in a certain environment, you'll start to associate that environment with that behavior.

Nathan Simmonds:

Often when people are being taught meditation, they're taught not to meditate while lying down in bed. Why? Open question to you guys. What's the one thing we do most of the time in our beds? And I say most of the time to make sure we keep the answers clean in the chat boxes. What do we do? I'm having a terrible time technically with this

Nathan Simmonds:

Sleep. Exactly this. If you start to relax and you start to meditate and bring your breathing down, actually when you are laying, laying in bed and starting to do this, the natural reaction and response is to fall asleep. Okay? This is a great meditation. However, you're not reaping the full benefits of uh, focusing your attention on that. So when we're doing our work, we have to create a space that we can associate with our work. Now, depending on the environment you are living in, that the space you've got available will depend on how you create that space. Okay?

Nathan Simmonds:

So one of the first things I'm gonna recommend is an absolute categoric. Do and do not is don't. If you have the option, make that workspace in your bedroom. Okay? Something I learned from homeschooling and working with children is very often as parents, and I know myself and I'd love to hear from you guys, when we got home from school with our homework, we were told to go to our room to do our homework. So we were out of the way.

Nathan Simmonds:

What happened though is we started to associate that place where we're meant to be resting with doing the work. So either the work didn't get done because we were relaxing or we weren't relaxing 'cause we were too busy focusing on the work. We didn't create the divide for ourselves.

Nathan Simmonds:

This is the same for your work as well. Working from home. Do not do that work in the bedroom. If you have a choice, go and create an individual space, whether it's in the corner of your lounge or the corner of the kitchen or the edge of the dining room, whatever it is, separate the spaces out. So it might be that if you do have a dining room area that maybe that becomes the home office just for a little while, while you're doing this and the kitchen becomes the eating space. Recommend there.

Nathan Simmonds:

Separate your dynamics out so you can get focused on your thinking. The other side of things, what's gonna happen into your relation or it's your own health. First of all, if you're going into those spaces and you're always thinking about work where you would be relaxing, think about what's gonna happen when you try and go to sleep.

Nathan Simmonds:

If you are working in in your bedroom, it's gonna have a really disruptive effect on you. It's called the law of association. Now what are the things that we can do then to support this? The next elements over here, one separate. Separate the space. Absolutely key. Two, set up a desk if you have space to do this. As I said, if it's the corner of the kitchen, if it's the corner of a dining room, create a little pocket of workspace for yourself, okay?

Nathan Simmonds:

Make sure you, and then get your own setup there. So remember the things that you had on your desk while you were working in your office and maybe you have a cacti, maybe you have a plant, maybe you have some of your stationary. Create that little section of where you work in. So when you go there, you can do the thing you need to do.

Nathan Simmonds:

Get your own kit, get your own stationary available. Make sure it's accessible to you. I'm lucky because I have an office here. I have desks, I have drawers, I have all my own equipment, I have everything I need so I can grab it when I need to. I'm not distracted, I'm not worrying about it.

Nathan Simmonds:

I'm not trying to order it. It's there. It's available for when I need it. Do not disturb. This is vital. I have a 7-year-old who here has got children who here have got their children getting involved in their work. Gimme a yes, yes or no in the box. They see who here has got children available.

Nathan Simmonds:

What I do know is from myself, the wife is the biggest issue. Kids too busy on. Yes. Why? Because there's a novelty to being here and being available. There's a novelty to being con you know, a hundred percent available in proximity to your children rather than at work or working away or whatever it is we're doing as a result of this. It's very easy for those children or our partners. They have a question. Um, something else will come out or they just want a hug.

Nathan Simmonds:

You know, I might be sitting here doing work, my 7-year-old daughter and we, you know, we have great relationship and she'll just come up 'cause she wants a hug. She just wants to say hello 'cause she knows I'm here and she's got the opportunity to do it 'cause I'm not working away from home. At the same time though, I'm delivering content right now, so I have to have some sort of, um, a boundary, almost an expectation.

Nathan Simmonds:

When the door is shut, do not disturb. It means I'm working. I also create spaces where they're clearly aware of when I'm doing live broadcast or when I'm doing interviews with, with, with some of our connections, our network so that in the nicest pop possible way,...

Grocery Guru Ep#27: Nett Revenue Management and How it Relates to Supermarkets

Join Andrew Grant and Darren A. Smith in the twenty-seventh episode which is about What is Nett Revenue Management? And how it relates to supermarkets. Plus, where did NRM come from, and how can it be used. They also share their NRM Pyramid model.

You Can Read the Full What is Nett Revenue Management Episode Transcript Below:

Darren A. Smith:

Welcome to episode 27 of the Grocery Guru. We're here with Andrew Grant. Andrew, how are you doing?

Andrew Grant:

Morning Darren. Are you well?

Darren A. Smith:

Hey, I'm very well. There's a lot going on in the world, but let's focus on grocery. And let's focus on a trending topic, NRM.

Andrew Grant:

Oh, got me there. Is that a rapper? An '80s rapper?

Darren A. Smith:

What, like Run-DMC?

Andrew Grant:

Well no, I was thinking more, as we're talking grocery, maybe a confectionary wrapper.

Darren A. Smith:

Oh, I see. I was thinking you mean [inaudible 00:00:35]. So NRM. Not really managing? No, what's it stand for?

Andrew Grant:

Could be. Could be. I think it's net revenue management. I'm taking a wild guess there.

Darren A. Smith:

It is. So we're going to talk about what is nett revenue management now. Net, N-E-T or N-E-T-T?

Our Net Revenue Management Training Course covers a model and process for effective day to day NRM

 

Andrew Grant:

Oh. Oh that's a very [inaudible 00:00:56]. I don't think it matters, does it?

Darren A. Smith:

I don't know [crosstalk 00:00:58].

Andrew Grant:

I'd go with N-E-T-T, because that's a bit more accountancy and finance-y.

Darren A. Smith:

It is supposed to be the right way is N-E-T-T, but I'm sure no one really cares. The Google searches have been going up and up over the last three years, because we can track what people are searching for, what volume. So it's going up and up and up. It's getting more and more popular. Net revenue management, or NRM, or optimizing revenue, what the hell is it?

Andrew Grant:

Well, I think it is actually very topical. And if you are watching the Google stats it's probably not surprising it's starting to peak again, because I think it's going to become incredibly important the next six months. Do you know the background? Where it came from?

Darren A. Smith:

I know it's about the airlines, but I'm going to leave that to you. Go on.

Andrew Grant:

Yeah. So as most of these things, I think it's American derived. Basically grew up out of the low cost airlines in the States, whose sole purpose is obviously to fill planes as profitably as possible. If you're running an easyJet or a Ryanair model and selling seats at 7.99, you've got to maximize the revenue from every single bum on every single seat. And that's where, I mean Ryanair is the classic. Some of the more outrageous revenue raising tricks occur. Was it Michael O'Leary was going to charge for using the toilet at one point on Ryanair flights? But you charge for your baggage, you charge for refreshments, you charge for meals. You're charged if you want to sit in the first 10 seats. That is effectively net revenue management in action, but possibly at its worst.

Andrew Grant:

I think, well, it's going to become incredibly in vogue the next few months. If you think about it, the economy is going to open up fully on May the 17th, is it?

Darren A. Smith:

Yep.

Andrew Grant:

You're going to have the hotels back open, you're going to have restaurants open for indoor dining, and you're going to have the airlines flying again. And they're all, after a year in limbo, they're all going to be desperate to be maximizing the revenue from every single customer. Now something, there's supermarkets coming onto the grocery trade obviously have done very, very well during the pandemic, and they seem to have done it without any perception of the customers being overcharged or stung. Your worry is with, or you're already seeing it with holiday lets in Cornwall and Devon twice the price of last year. An easy way of effective net revenue management is just fleece your customer, but then they don't stay with you forever.

Darren A. Smith:

Well, it's not a long-term strategy. Let me share with you when you the Wikipedia definition. It's disciplined analytics to predict customer behavior and to optimize availability and price to maximize growth. Now that sounds a little bit like the scene I recall it Only Fools and Horses where Cassandra was telling Rodney about how to maximize strategy and growth. And Rodney just kind of [crosstalk 00:04:16]. So my definition is really: it's about old category management. Now, people will say category management is dead. Category management can't be dead if it's just about maximizing the shoppers' spend in your store. And how do you do that? Well, we have a mnemonic RAPPP, which is range, availability, price, promotions, and I've forgotten the last one. Price, promotions, and?

Andrew Grant:

What was the last one? Sorry.

Darren A. Smith:

Range, availability, price, promotions. Forgotten the last P, I'll come back to -

Andrew Grant:

[crosstalk 00:04:54]. Go on.

Darren A. Smith:

It's not a P. So I think net revenue management is a very close bedfellow of NRM, category management are one in the same.

Andrew Grant:

I absolutely agree. I think it's just how you package it for certain audiences. So if you're speaking to a retailer, they talk category management. They talk the language of the shopper. If you're talking to the finance director of a major brand, they'll probably be more enticed with the term net revenue management. But at the end of the day, if you focus it on the ultimate customer or shopper or consumer, whatever you call them, then all roads lead to that. And I think we've obviously developed the NRM pyramid, as we call it.

Darren A. Smith:

[crosstalk 00:05:47]. Now I'm going to do a shameful promotion of this NRM [crosstalk 00:05:51].

Andrew Grant:

Is this what you made earlier?

Darren A. Smith:

This is one I made earlier with Post-it Notes and sticky back plastic. [crosstalk 00:05:57].

Andrew Grant:

Yeah.

Darren A. Smith:

So this is the NRM pyramid. And what we've got up here is increasing profit, what it's all about. We've got shopper, WOP, FOP, and PEN, which is all about shoppers and maximizing where you get them from. Is it weight of purchase, WOP? Frequency of purchase, how much they buy. Or penetration, getting more shoppers. So the first two about getting your current shoppers to behave slightly differently, and the third one is about getting more shoppers. And then we've got the four Ps of marketing, which is a classic. And then we've got our five soft skills we call Spain. Selling, presentation, analytical, influencing, and negotiation. And then we've got our own NRM ten tools. [crosstalk 00:06:44].

Andrew Grant:

Yeah. As I was saying, I think the timing for any of our clients out there is perfect NRM is going to be maybe the buzzword of the next six months or so, as businesses, particularly supplier businesses. We talk a lot about the retailers in these things. Maybe not so much about the struggles of suppliers. They've basically spent a year nose to the grindstone, churning out as much product as possible, because the supermarkets have obviously done extremely well. Now is the time to potentially use our net revenue management tool to start making more profit from the oodles of stock that they're pumping into the very, very successful supermarket.

Darren A. Smith:

Yes. Very true.

Andrew Grant:

And doing it in a long-term sustainable way that focuses on still delivering shopper value, not going down the budget airline route of saying, "How can we take as much money from shoppers without really caring about them?"

Darren A. Smith:

Yeah, very true. Very true. So we talk about net revenue management, we've got a net revenue management pyramid that we've developed, which has a whole bunch of tools and a structure of how to approach net revenue management. We think it's going to be particularly on vogue, as you said, over the coming year. We've got supermarkets who have lost up to half a million in cost that they've spent on COVID. And we've got potentially a price war coming.

Andrew Grant:

Well, yeah. There's all the ingredients for a price war, but maybe it's a bit like the Jersey fish war of yesterday. Very much hyped, but wasn't much substance to it. I mean, if I had a pound every time I saw supermarket price war headline in the paper I wouldn't be sitting here doing this today.

Darren A. Smith:

Very true.

Andrew Grant:

Yeah I think we touched on it a few weeks ago, didn't we, with Asda were investing, was it 100 million? 100 million price drop campaign? And we worked out it was like less than a [inaudible 00:09:06] the pound to the shopper. So I'm not sure. I think there's the whole point of net revenue management. There's always the blunt tool of drop prices. It's a very blunt tool, it's very easily copied, and it has a very short term effect, if any. [crosstalk 00:09:24].

Darren A. Smith:

Sorry.

Andrew Grant:

I was going to say, what net revenue management does is make you think much more broadly, much more strategically. Actually, what are all the levers you can pull? And you come out the other end of it with something much more sophisticated than, "Oh, let's just take 10p off everything."

Darren A. Smith:

Yes. Yes. Because price is a race to the bottom. NRM will be the clever approach.

Andrew Grant:

Yeah, absolutely.

Darren A. Smith:

All right. Andrew, I'm aware of our time. What's the one takeaway you want our viewers to take from this episode?

Andrew Grant:

Bang us an email saying we'd love to know more about What is Nett Revenue Management

Darren A. Smith:

Okay. Shameful pitch, but I like it. All right. We'll see you next week. You take care.

Andrew Grant:

Okay. Bye.

Darren A. Smith:

Bye. Bye.

Take a look at the What is Nett Revenue Management vi

Grocery Guru Episode #26: Discussing Sainsbury's Preliminary Results with Covid Costs of £485m

Join Andrew Grant and Darren A. Smith in the twenty-sixth episode of the Grocery Guru Discussing Sainsbury's Preliminary Results with Covid Costs of £485m, digital sales doubling, and 1,900 innovative products to be launched.

You Can Read the Full Issa Brothers Episode Transcript Below:

Darren A. Smith:

Welcome to episode 26 of the Grocery Guru. We're here with Andrew Grant. Andrew, how are you?

Andrew Grant:

Good morning. Very good thank you Darren.

Darren A. Smith:

Cool, and I think we're continuing our series of looking at results. So we've looked at Morrisons previously, we've looked at Tesco. It's now our friends at Holborn.

Andrew Grant:

Yeah, you were going to say Stamford Street and show your age, weren't you?

Darren A. Smith:

I was.

Andrew Grant:

Yeah, no, we're getting towards the end of results season. I suppose, you know, those Sainsbury's results, you've read them.

Sainsbury's preliminary results with covid costs

 

Darren A. Smith:

I have.

Andrew Grant:

More of the same really that we saw with Tesco and Morrisons. Everybody, all the supermarkets, all the food grocers, doing incredibly well out of COVID, but at a cost.

Darren A. Smith:

That's true. So we're looking at the preliminary results for the 52 weeks ended 6th of March '21. What was the biggest highlight for you, the COVID cost?

Andrew Grant:

No, I think you're going to touch on that in a second, but for me, it's online. We've talked about it in several of these episodes, but their online sales have doubled from 8% of their business to 17% of the business. Most importantly, they're now saying that they're profitable online sales. So what the pandemic seems to have done is got all of them over that base cost line of running trucks and having to pick stuff in stores. You've got a lot of fixed costs there. They didn't have the volume before to make it profitable. All of a sudden it's kicked their online, or their home delivery operations, into profit, which is good news for, I guess, the shareholders going forward.

Darren A. Smith:

That makes sense. So we're saying now that one in five customers are ordering online.

Andrew Grant:

Yeah.

Darren A. Smith:

They've managed to make it profitable, so they've got over their hump, whatever that was 10%, 15%. Okay, all right. The one I do want to raise is the COVID costs, because it's so [inaudible 00:02:03]. So these guys are saying, I'll just read it out, "Offset by £485 million worth of direct COVID-19 costs."

Andrew Grant:

Yeah, I mean, their profits are down 39% on the back of that.

Darren A. Smith:

Wow.

Andrew Grant:

Yeah, I mean, a huge hit, and just have a look at the amount of Perspex in store, and the amount of stickers saying, "Two meters apart," and the number of extra security guards. I know when we were shopping during the first lockdown, Sainsbury's were the toughest on the rules.

Darren A. Smith:

Right, okay.

Andrew Grant:

Yeah, I can remember going in with my other half and being told to stand apart from your own wife in the Sainsbury's line, which I thought was slightly over the top at the time.

Darren A. Smith:

In our local [inaudible 00:02:51] store, which is quite small, there's a big queue at the front of the store, but what people have realized is you queue at the front of the store, but actually you can go in the back and there's no one there.

Andrew Grant:

Yeah. But yeah, I mean, huge extra costs. I don't know, maybe it's the cynical side of me, but if I was the finance director I think I'd be throwing everything at one-off COVID costs to maybe mask some under-performance elsewhere. But I didn't say that.

Darren A. Smith:

No, and I certainly wouldn't repeat it. So we've got a statutory loss for Sainsbury's, before tax, of £261 million, statutory loss. Wow.

Andrew Grant:

Yeah, a lot of exceptionals in there. I mean, their operating profit, as I said, was hit by that COVID, so, you know, underlying, you know, they're doing incredibly well. The other thing, actually, if anybody that follows Sainsbury's history, or been involved in Sainsbury's history is, a bit like all the other UK supermarkets, they've got a terrible history of acquisitions.

Darren A. Smith:

Yes.

Andrew Grant:

Homebase. I mean, Homebase hobbled them for years and years and they never really did anything with it. They do seem to be making a good fist of Argos.

Darren A. Smith:

Well, that's very true, and I remember a conference I was at was with Sir Peter Davis who, ran Sainsbury's in, probably, the late '90s, I think it was. He stood up on stage talking about acquisitions, and he said, "I know the answer's Egypt, but what the hell was the question?"

Andrew Grant:

Yes, they did buy a store in Egypt, didn't they, or whatever. But no, again, I think finally, timing seemed to be perfectly working for them, you know, to take on Argos just before home deliveries go ballistic because of, A, technology, and B, obviously, COVID accelerating it. You know, great move, moving Argos into Sainsbury's stores so that you click and collect. You know, massively extended opening hours for Argos at no real cost to them, because the supermarket's open anyway. Really convenient for customers, and Argos, you know, a pretty good high street, well-respected brand name. So yeah, they seem to be doing lots of good things. I know you chuckled at their new ready meals range, as did I, maybe some of their choice of branding could be improved.

Darren A. Smith:

Yeah, so I'm just going to flip to that, because I think we've got... So we've got the Stamford Street ready meals. Now, I've got a fondness for Stamford Street, but putting that aside, I get what they're doing. We've got Mary Ann's yogurts, and we've got the Imperfectly Tasty range. Okay, all right, you can see what they're doing. Tesco, obviously were first out of the box on doing this type of thing. They're doing it, maybe it'll work for them too.

Andrew Grant:

Yeah. It should do. All in all, Morrisons, Tesco, Sainsbury's, you won't really see Asda's figures, but they'll have done equally well. So, the pandemic has been good for the supermarkets, and they're continuing to rock and roll. I guess one final thing, again, while we're on the subject of Sainsbury's, is what their ex-boss Justin King's been up to. I don't know if you picked it up.

Darren A. Smith:

Well, I noticed something on LinkedIn. I saw a picture of him and then it was the headline, but it went past me. I think you've read it. What was he doing?

Andrew Grant:

Yeah, no, he's jumping on this. You know, we talked back in one of the episodes about 10-minute delivery windows, and I think you were quite shocked. I think you thought it was 10 minutes to place the order, no, 10 minutes to get your order. So no, Justin has invested in Snappy Shopper, which, as I read it, is sort of a middleman between a C-store and a customer. So if you're an independent C-store, you haven't got the clout and the investment of a Tesco or a Sainsbury's to do your own home deliveries. But Just Eat, in the restaurant sector, you know, if you're a small Chinese or Indian takeaway, or whichever cuisine, Just Eat, we'll pick up the order and deliver it, and do all the fulfillment, IT, clever stuff. Exactly what Snappy Shopper does. So if you're an independent C-store, your customers can order online through the Snappy Shopper app, and you get your delivery, and it costs either the customer or the shopper, I think, £3 commission.

Darren A. Smith:

Okay, [crosstalk 00:07:25]. If I want to order two pints of milk, some bacon, and some eggs for breakfast later this morning. Then I just do that for £3?

Andrew Grant:

Yeah, I mean, if that's all you order, it's going to be a high on-cost. But I guess, given that Tesco, Sainsbury's Morrisons, Asda's home deliveries are everywhere, what's the need to get it from your local C-store? If I want home delivery, my first thought would be one of those big three or four. Would I think about my little local C-store? I don't know. Obviously a lot of them have different ranges, more local produce, possibly fresher, maybe.

Darren A. Smith:

It could [crosstalk 00:08:14].

Andrew Grant:

Justin obviously thinks it's worth investing in. He's put quite a shed load of money into it, his own money supposedly.

Darren A. Smith:

Well, maybe if it was a specialty Polish store, Polish convenience store?

Andrew Grant:

Yeah, actually, as I say though-

Darren A. Smith:

[inaudible 00:08:31].

Andrew Grant:

But there's there's farm shops with all their own local produce. Maybe they can take... You know, that would be of interest to people. And as you say, specialist Polish or Eastern European supermarkets, of which there are lots, now suddenly have the ability to offer home deliveries.

Darren A. Smith:

Interesting. Let me just share a couple of highlights I noticed. I'll read out this statement, "We are changing the pace, making bold decisions." I thought that was an odd thing to put in, you know, it was obvious. Aren't they always moving at pace, and always trying to make bold decisions? Why tell us that in their statement?

Andrew Grant:

It's annual-report speak, isn't it? You've got to say that. You can't say the opposite, "We're slowing down and not doing anything."

Darren A. Smith:

No, I just thought it was such an obvious thing to put in. Aren't we always moving at pace? Aren't we always trying to making bold decisions?

Andrew Grant:

Yeah, but also, every single annual report starts with, "I want to heartily thank my staff and colleagues and everybody." It's just what you expect in an annual report statement.

Darren A. Smith:

All right. Well, let me just highlight this one too. "Changing our ways of working and our supplier relationships will triple our levels of new product innovation to 1900 products in the year ahead." Now,...

Grocery Guru Ep25: Issa Brothers Buy Leon & Cafe Nero to Grab the Electric Car Market For EG

Join Andrew Grant and Darren A. Smith in the twenty-fifth episode of the Grocery Guru discussing the Issa Brothers buying Leon and Cafe Nero to grab the electric car market.

You Can Read the Full Issa Brothers Episode Transcript Below:

Darren A. Smith:

Well, hello and welcome to episode 25 of the Grocery Guru with Andrew Grant. Andrew, how are you?

Andrew Grant:

Morning Darren. Very good. I'm very good, thank you very much.

Darren A. Smith:

We've hit a milestone. We're at 25 episodes of sharing your guru-ness, if that's a word?

Andrew Grant:

Wow. Wow.

Darren A. Smith:

All right. So what's on your mind this week?

Andrew Grant:

Well, I guess the retail news that stood out to me alongside the European failed Super League was the Issa brothers buying Leon, the semi-fast food chain and seem to be closing in Caffe Nero.

Darren A. Smith:

Right. Oh, okay.

Andrew Grant:

And this idea of creating, if you like, super petrol forecourts. Posh petrol forecourts. Because I don't know what your experience of filling up at one of these forecourts is? There's either a very nice Tesco Express or Sainsbury's Local, but there's often a pretty grubby Gregg's or Subway or some unknown chain. And it's all a little bit ugh.

Darren A. Smith:

Tell us, the brothers, what did they recently buy?

Andrew Grant:

Well, they built up Euro Garages from nothing, into, I think, it's certainly Europe's largest chain of forecourts, top of my head, 1,500 forecourts.

The electric car market is being grabbed by the Issa Brothers

Darren A. Smith:

Right. Okay. Big.

Andrew Grant:

And they develop them as these mini shopping hubs. But I think now, they bought Aster. They can obviously use Asda's free holder stake. Because most of Asda's estate is freehold. So they can sale and lease back. Classic private equity stuff. Sale and lease back Asda's estate to them. Give them a whole load of money to spend on buying. A hundred million for Leon.

Darren A. Smith:

Wow. Okay.

Andrew Grant:

And then put these fancy forecourts together. But I don't know about you, but you pull up to a petrol station and there's a forecourt shop there. A nice one. Don't you feel guilty about browsing down the shelves while there's 1,700 people waiting to fill up and you're blocking the pump?

Darren A. Smith:

It is an odd one, but I'm not sure if it's a generational thing. Certainly 10, 20 years ago, when I started driving, you fill up at the pump, you pay, you go. Now I fill up at a pump and I'm in two minds. If I'm the one browsing, I can leave my car there, it's fine. If I'm the one waiting and there's a guy doing two weeks shop and he's about 25 minutes, I wants to slap him when he comes out.

Andrew Grant:

Yeah, exactly. As I said earlier, Leon is not fast food, it's semi-fast food.

Darren A. Smith:

Yeah. Yeah.

Andrew Grant:

You don't pick up a burger or a salad or that. They make it there and then so it's maybe a five or 10 minute wait.

Darren A. Smith:

Those people who haven't experienced a Leon, because there aren't that many around, what is a Leon?

Andrew Grant:

It's high quality semi-fast food. It is like a Pret, but not sandwich based.

Darren A. Smith:

Yeah. Okay.

Andrew Grant:

It's definitely not your Subway or your Gregg's.

Darren A. Smith:

Yeah.

Andrew Grant:

Which is literally grab and go a hot sausage roll or a six inch sub with whatever in it. You talked about a generational thing a second ago. I think they have been... It suddenly hit me and you probably won't get it because you're in the same situation as me. I think they've hit on something absolutely that's going to be jaw-droppingly successful.

Darren A. Smith:

Okay. Okay. So we're talking about the brothers. Issa brothers.

Andrew Grant:

Yeah. About them investing in... Because why would you invest in a forecourt with these super posh chains where you want to linger? And you're just going to have a whole lot of frustrated motorists sitting at the pumps going, "Why is that bugger ordering a cafe latte and then going over and getting a burger?"

Darren A. Smith:

All right. So I'm going to make a leap into electric vehicles. Is that where you're going.

Andrew Grant:

Exactly.

Darren A. Smith:

Ah, okay.

Andrew Grant:

Yeah. Think about the future we're all going to have to get used to. If we're traveling on holiday or business, we're all going to have to get used to stopping for at least 20 minutes, maybe 40 minutes to put some electric juice in our electric cars. So it's a work of brilliance.

Darren A. Smith:

Yeah, it is. It is, because-

Andrew Grant:

As those petrol stations turn electric, you'll turn up, you'll plug your car in, you've then got 40 minutes to kill. You will want some quality food, a quality beverage. Get yourself into this zone of having 40 minute breaks in a journey when you're driving to Scotland. So I think, five years time, work of genius.

Darren A. Smith:

That's very true because BP, I think it was four years ago, bought Chargemaster, the largest charging company in the UK. So of course this electric thing's moving on quicker and quicker and our journey patterns will have to change to, we're going to have to stop, charge, get something to eat and then keep going. You're absolutely right. We see the Tesla charges at the service stations already.

Andrew Grant:

Yeah, yeah. But as I said, at the moment, it's a very small minority of people and the people that are buying electric cars are those people that tend to do urban journeys. But 2030, there will be no more new petrol or diesel cars available. And the tax, the tax regime will just make them unaffordable. So if you're a national account manager, spend a lot of the time traditionally on the road, you're going to have an electric car. The tax benefits already outweigh petrol or diesel. If you're a home counties based account manager, you've got to go and visit Asda every week or so, you're going to have to get used to stopping either on the way there or the way back for a 20 minute charge. So why not have some decent quality food at an EG forecourt? Yeah. I think that the Issa brothers have been incredibly foresightful.

Darren A. Smith:

And what about any impacts [inaudible 00:06:15] leap with Asda?

Andrew Grant:

Well, what they get with that is they get Asda's massive purchasing power on the food and the beverage and obviously the forecourt shops can have Asda takeaway, Asda groceries, food. Maybe the extend click and collect. You're in your Tesla, it says you've got 10 miles before you need to recharge. You place your grocery order, your car's on charge, you go for a Caffe Nero or a Leon and then the nice Asda people fill your boot up with the groceries you've ordered.

Darren A. Smith:

Wow. I like it. That's a hell of a model.

Andrew Grant:

There we go. That's a bit of a look into the future today.

Darren A. Smith:

Well, let's see if you're right. We'll come back to that in a few months. Andrew, thank you for your guru-ness.

Andrew Grant:

No problem.

Darren A. Smith:

I might have to trademark that, and we'll see you next week.

Andrew Grant:

Take care.

Darren A. Smith:

Thank you. Bye. Bye.

Take a look at the Issa Brothers Share video on our YouTube Channel. Also, check out our award-winning blog.

Grocery Guru 24: Tesco Romping Ahead of Aldi in Kantar's Market Share Results 12 Week March 21

Join Andrew Grant and Darren A. Smith in the twenty-fourth episode of the Grocery Guru discussing how Tesco is romping ahead of Aldi in Kantar's market share results.

You Can Read the Full Tesco and Aldi Market Share Episode Transcript Below:

Darren A. Smith:

Welcome to this week's weekly grocery guru with Andrew Grant. Andrew, how are you?

Andrew Grant:

Good morning, Darren. Yes, very good.

Darren A. Smith:

Good, good. Well, episode 24, Andrew. And I hope we're not running out of things to say to our viewers. I sense we're not. What's in our postbag this week?

Andrew Grant:

Well, not necessarily postbag but news of a sort, I suppose. But maybe it's lockdown and I should get out more, but the world is turned on its head, as we all know. But I never thought I would see the day again when Tesco would grow its market share and Aldi would lose market share.

Darren A. Smith:

Well, that sounds strange. Yeah, go on. Tell me more.

Andrew Grant:

Yeah, because I mean, the history of the last, what? 10 years has been Aldi just going like that and Tesco slowly losing share every single month. And latest Kantar data has just come out. It's very exciting for people like you and me, but I'm not sure a lot of people stay up late at night to wait for it. But it's staggering. We talked last week or the week before I think, about this lockdown effect and how the malts have been the big winners.

Tesco are ahead of Aldi in Kantar's market share

Darren A. Smith:

Yes we did.

Andrew Grant:

But obviously, but would you really want to be a buyer this year facing last year's peaks?

Darren A. Smith:

Oh, I mean, it will be terrible for every buyer out there, every supplier, year on year, will just be... Hard. Yeah.

Andrew Grant:

No. Yes and no. Not so bad if you're a Tesco, Sainsbury's, Morrison's. Pretty bad if you're an Aldi or a Lidl.

Darren A. Smith:

Okay.

Andrew Grant:

What Kantar have very helpfully done is done a two year change figure, two year growth figure. So, they've done a year on year figure for March and a two year figure for March, so you can really see the effects of lockdown last year.

Darren A. Smith:

Okay. So you're looking at some Kantar data. What's this? 12 weeks to end of March?

Andrew Grant:

22nd of March. [crosstalk 00:02:03]

Darren A. Smith:

22nd of March.

Andrew Grant:

Yeah.

Darren A. Smith:

Okay. Okay. And you're picking up on some observations in that data? What you're seeing?

Andrew Grant:

Well, yeah. What is staggering is Tesco have actually grown market share. 26.8 to 27.1. So up 0.3. Aldi have lost 0.3, magically.

Darren A. Smith:

Okay.

Andrew Grant:

You've got Tesco growing ahead of the average. So they're growing at 8.5 versus multiples at 7.4. Morrison's at 8.7. Aldi 1.5.

Darren A. Smith:

Ouch.

Andrew Grant:

Yeah.

Darren A. Smith:

Oh. So, just give us... The average growth for a multiple, did you say it was 8.5?

Andrew Grant:

7.4. Tesco had 8.5.

Darren A. Smith:

7.4. And Aldi's growing at six points less than that.

Andrew Grant:

Yeah. I mean, almost not growing.

Darren A. Smith:

Wow.

Andrew Grant:

Which to me, shows what happens when you haven't got an online home delivery presence.

Darren A. Smith:

Yes, yes. Very helpful.

Andrew Grant:

And what nails that even harder home, you look at Ocado. Do you have a guess what Ocado's growth is year on year?

Darren A. Smith:

Well, so they're obviously very good at home delivery. That's their model. No, go on. Tell us.

Andrew Grant:

34%.

Darren A. Smith:

Wow.

Andrew Grant:

So, what? Yeah. Four times Tesco.

Darren A. Smith:

Wow. Now we talked in our previous episode, I think it's a couple of weeks ago, about the Morrison's preliminary results. And their sales were up well.

Andrew Grant:

Yeah.

Darren A. Smith:

But their profit had died because they were trying to manage COVID, the buying of PPE, labor and store, blah, blah, blah. That I guess won't be the case for Ocado, because the model is the model.

Andrew Grant:

That's a good point, actually. Yeah. They're probably driving some very profitable sales. Although, the point you just made, relate that back to Aldi. Imagine, Aldi's operating margins are probably the tiniest in the industry. They don't divulge them.

Darren A. Smith:

Yeah.

Andrew Grant:

But they'll have had exactly the same costs as a Tesco, Asda, Sainsbury's, et cetera. But they're driving no growth.

Darren A. Smith:

[inaudible 00:04:09].

Andrew Grant:

Aldi will be under a lot of pressure. It just shows this new world post-COVID, where the growth is in online and home delivery. And if you haven't got an online and home delivery presence, you're in trouble.

Andrew Grant:

Now, the other thing I find interesting, Asda are still managing to grow quite strongly. They've got the home delivery and an online presence. They haven't quite got the loyalty presence that a Clubcard or a Nectar card brings.

Darren A. Smith:

Yeah.

Andrew Grant:

Because what I've found again, quite interesting. And I mentioned it last week, a relatively big headline, "Asda start a hundred million pound price war."

Darren A. Smith:

Yeah.

Andrew Grant:

I think it was in one of the big read top papers. And Asda's new owners recognizing that they can't allow Aldi to steal their customers. [crosstalk 00:05:09] And about the only thing they've got to fight on is price.

Darren A. Smith:

Yes. Yes.

Andrew Grant:

So, great, big, hundred million pound price war.

Darren A. Smith:

Yeah.

Andrew Grant:

Are you impressed? Are you going to be going down to Asda for your weekly [crosstalk 00:05:21]

Darren A. Smith:

Obviously, a hundred millions a big number. And it's a good part of PR. I sense where this is going.

Andrew Grant:

Yeah. Asda's turnover is 23 billion.

Darren A. Smith:

Yeah.

Andrew Grant:

So, a hundred million investment is 0.4p in the pounds. Less than I ha'penny in the pound. Now, obviously, they won't invest that hundred million on every single line.

Darren A. Smith:

Yeah.

Andrew Grant:

But even if they took their top 10% line, say.

Darren A. Smith:

Yeah.

Andrew Grant:

And invested that money, it's four pence reduction.

Darren A. Smith:

It's all pretty-

Andrew Grant:

4p on a can of larger. Are you really going to cross the road for that?

Darren A. Smith:

Well, you're not. When you put it like that, you're not. So, it's a little bit like when the government say, "We're going to put 10,000 more bobbies on the beat." And we don't end up with 10,000, we end up with fewer numbers than that.

Andrew Grant:

Well, it's not that, is it? It's when they say what the investment is. Because I think Diane Abbott got caught out by that, didn't they? Saying, "We're going to put 10,000 bobbies on the beat and it'll cost a million pounds." And somebody said, "Oh, we're paying policeman 100 grand a year now, are we?"

Darren A. Smith:

Something like that, wasn't it?

Andrew Grant:

Yeah. The one that gets me is the sofa warehouses and the home furnishing warehouses that you see on the out of town centers. And they go, "Incredible 50 million pound sale." And you think, "Well, I personally aren't thinking of spending 50 million pounds on a sofa. So what's 50 million mean?"

Darren A. Smith:

It's just a big number to bandy about. Coming back to your Kantar numbers. The bit I'm taking out from our Morrison's preliminary results look, and the Kantar your shared today, is the real darling of all this must be Ocado, because their sales are up hugely and they haven't changed their model. So they must be the ones that are really profitable and really smiling from all this.

Andrew Grant:

It gets so, other than obviously, if you do look at Ocado's results. Their operating model is a very, very heavily capital invested model, which will take a lot of years to pay back. But yeah, on the day-to-day face of it, they must have the biggest smiles of the lot on their face.

Darren A. Smith:

I'll look forward to that.

Andrew Grant:

But as I said, I think, just bringing it round. Aldi have got real problems. Because...

Darren A. Smith:

Haven't they started Click & Collect?

Andrew Grant:

They have, but I tried it because I'm actually quite an Aldi fan. I think their quality is superb. The price is no longer jaw-dropping, but still very, very good. And other than them never having more than one checkout open and it taking forever to get through, I quite like Aldi.

Darren A. Smith:

Yeah.

Andrew Grant:

And I've had a look at their Click & Collect and it's poor.

Darren A. Smith:

In what way?

Andrew Grant:

It's clunky. It's not in every store. I don't think it's every product. It's not seamless, like a Tesco or a Sainsbury's experience is.

Darren A. Smith:

Right.

Andrew Grant:

And it's Click & Collect.

Darren A. Smith:

Yeah. It's different.

Andrew Grant:

And obviously, Aldi stores don't necessarily have the car parking and the space to make it easy to operate Click & Collect.

Darren A. Smith:

Yeah. Very true.

Andrew Grant:

So, will they be going into vans? And the other thing that struck me again, going back to Asda's hundred million pound price war, it's very unsubtle, very brutal. And probably not going to work if it's less than a ha'penny in the pound.

Andrew Grant:

I can imagine what the likes of Tesco are doing and they're doing it very successfully in terms of winning back Aldi customers. They'll be deploying a weapon that Asda can't deploy, which is Clubcard data.

Darren A. Smith:

Yes. Yes, of course.

Andrew Grant:

You can imagine Tesco being all over their shopper baskets, trying to work out which shoppers are still shopping in Aldi and what products they're buying.

Darren A. Smith:

Yeah.

Andrew Grant:

And then particularly, I guess, home delivery stuff as we get post-pandemic. Some people are buying all their toilet rolls in Aldi....

Grocery Guru Ep 23: A Partnership Between Tesco and BMW - The Every Little Helps Car.

Join Andrew Grant and Darren A. Smith in the twenty-third episode of the Grocery Guru discussing the partnership between Tesco and BMW to launch the Every Little Helps car. The BMW Series 1 ELH.

You Can Read the Full Tesco and BMW Partnership Episode Transcript Below:

Darren A Smith :

Welcome to the weekly episode, that is the Grocery Guru. This is the episode number 23. And we're here with Andrew, our Grocery Guru. Andrew how are you?

Andrew Grant :

Morning Darren, you well?. Happy Easter.

Andrew Grant :

Thank you, you too. Yes, we've got four days off soon. Now the news, been a bit slower of late. What have we got in our postbag for this week?

Andrew Grant :

A couple of things. I mean, there's talk of an Asda price war, that they're trying to match Aldi a little bit. How many times have you heard of a grocery price war that wasn't really a price war. So maybe we just jump over that until more develops. The other interesting thing I saw though, and I'm amazed it's not got more publicity actually, but a tie up between BMW and Tesco.

Darren A Smith :

BMW cars, and Tesco? Okay. [crosstalk 00:00:52]

One of UK's biggest supermarket names

 

Andrew Grant :

Yeah, they're going to collaborate on the world's most recycled, recyclable green car.

Darren A Smith :

Wow. [crosstalk 00:01:01]. I mean Tesco is big, but BMW is huge. That's quite a coup for them to land that.

Andrew Grant :

Well, it's going to be the BMW ELH - the every little helps.

Darren A Smith :

[laughing] Brilliant.

Andrew Grant :

Think about it. They're going to build it from all Tesco's packaging waste. So you think of how many tin cans Tesco get threw and remember a tin can isn't tin it's steel.

Darren A Smith :

Yes quite so.

Andrew Grant :

How many, how many plastic bottles? So it's going to be built from all recycled packaging, which is obviously good for the planet, but even more interesting, it's going to run off bio ethanol produced from Tesco's food waste. So you'll, you'll sort of pop up to the supermarket quite how they'll do the practicalities I don't know but presume you pop up to the petrol filling station, it will be a bio ethanol pump and you fill it up with bio ethanol. So you've got a pretty much hundred percent recycled car running off totally clean fuel. I thought it was brilliant.

Darren A Smith :

This is a bit like the McDonald's restaurant vans that run off biodiesel. So it must be something similar. So it is very possible to make this happen. Wow. Okay. Okay

Andrew Grant :

Yeah. No, but I think this is bio ethanol. So ethanol is pure alcohol, isn't it?

Darren A Smith :

Yeah

Andrew Grant :

Whereas the McDonald's stuff runs off old chip fat.

Darren A Smith :

That's it? That's it. That's what I was getting at.

Andrew Grant :

I think I'll chip fat still puts lots of fumes in the air. Whereas if you think about burning pure alcohol, ethanol.

Darren A Smith :

Yeah.

Andrew Grant :

I don't think there are any emissions. So it's about as green as it gets.

Darren A Smith :

So are we thinking that this car that they're talking about, is going to be Tesco branded [inaudible 00:02:47] Tesco badge ELH or just BMW ELH?

Andrew Grant :

No, no, I don't think they'd go as far as a Tesco car. I mean, they got as far as the HUDL tablet, didn't they? A few years ago.

Darren A Smith :

Yes they did

Andrew Grant :

No this is going to be, from what I can gather, a one series BMW, but badged as the ELH the, the every little helps. I don't think there's going to be a lot of Tesco branding other than it's built from Tesco packaging and runs off Tesco fuel. [crosstalk 00:03:20]

Darren A Smith :

It's a bit like I remember the Champagne buyer for Tesco talking some years ago about Champagne. Tesco is very small on the label. Obviously you don't want Tesco big on something like that. So, okay I get it. All right.

Andrew Grant :

You could imagine that Tesco might be slightly reticent, a reasonable brand image, but I could see a Range Rover Waitrose, for example, that'll worked for me.

Darren A Smith :

Well what about a Colt Robin Reliant?

Andrew Grant :

Well that's showing your age, Darren. How about, if you think of the Germans, an Audi Aldi or an Aldi. That'll work

Darren A Smith :

And some people pronounce the two the same anyway.

Andrew Grant :

Exactly. So an Aldi, that'd work for me, I'm not sure what other types are there? hmm

Darren A Smith :

Well I am thinking about, from a category management perspective, the brand, is there nowhere that these brands can't go? So Tesco have obviously gone into the bank for instance, many, many years ago, they go into cars. I mean, is there any way that the brand can't extend into? So they've gone into mobile networks. Is it just unforgiving unrelentless it's everywhere?

Andrew Grant :

I can remember sitting in brainstorms 20 years ago as you do and they say, we we want to be the whole of life provider.

Darren A Smith :

Yes.

Andrew Grant :

So they need to start to talk about funeral care. I mean, the Co-op managed to do a really good business in funeral care. Whereas you'd think from category management, how do you sell that?

Darren A Smith :

Yes,

Andrew Grant :

Not the easiest thing to sell.

Darren A Smith :

And not only did Co-op go into it but they're the biggest provider in the land of it, so they did very, very well extending the brand into there. So you've got a brand that's becoming mobile phone, it's becoming bank, is becoming cars. I mean, wow. Is there nowhere it can't go?

Andrew Grant :

You know, we talked, was it two episodes ago about Amazon going into delivering your prescriptions?

Darren A Smith :

Yes.

Andrew Grant :

Yeah so all of a sudden Amazon, in terms of knowing everything about you now knows exactly what ailments you've got. So the next obvious thing is if Amazon realize that you're about to pop your clogs because of the number of pills you've ordered is, order your Amazon coffin

Darren A Smith :

[Laughter] Well, here's your funeral care and also here's your will that you need to write as well. [crosstalk 00:05:47] Leave us 10%. Sorry, go on.

Andrew Grant :

Just going back to the start. I can't wait. I think I'm going to order the finest version. I believe there's three versions of this ELH. There's a value, a standard, and the finest. A BMW ELH finest. Second-grade

Darren A Smith :

I mean, and if you've got your club card points and you're in your Tesco car and you've got the bank , you've got the whole thing going on. It's not long before. They've got to do more digitally. You talked about HUDL with tablets. Maybe we need a Tesco laptop, Tesco original films and TV.

Andrew Grant :

Yeah. Yeah. Who knows? So a brave new world out there Darren.

Darren A Smith :

And so it is. All right. All right. So a 60-second summary, and then we'll leave our viewers to enjoy their Easter and we'll talk next week. What's our summary, Andrew.

Andrew Grant :

Well, I think it is, everybody have a happy Easter. I'd put your order in for your BMW ELH now. I'm not sure if we're allowed to advertise, but from a personal perspective, sounds like a fantastic idea.

Darren A Smith :

Lovely, lovely. Every little helps.

Darren A Smith :

Okay, right. Thank you, everyone. 1st of April. We shall see you next week on about the 8th of April. You have a good Easter. Take care Goodbye.

Take a look at the Tesco ELH Car video on our YouTube Channel. Also, check out our award-winning blog.

Grocery Guru Ep 22: Retailer Results Season - Will they be Requiring Monies?

Join Andrew Grant and Darren A. Smith in the twenty-second episode of Grocery Guru discussing Retailer Results Season and many of the retailers who are coming to their year-end and negotiations will be tough.

You Can Read the Full Retailer Results Season Episode Transcript Below:

Darren A. Smith:

Welcome to the weekly episode. We're on number 22, and we're with the Grocery Guru, that is Andrew Grant. Andrew, hello. How are you doing?

Andrew Grant:

Very good, Darren. Are you well?

Darren A. Smith:

Yes, I'm well, I'm well. This week I think has been a slow news week. So Andrew, what have you got in our post bag for us?

Andrew Grant:

Yeah, it has. I didn't pick up anything really of much note this week, which is a dangerous thing to say, because it probably means I've missed something really important. But no, as you know, we get, what? 12, 15 queries a week, either email or whatever, from clients. And yeah, there's been a bit of a theme over the last couple of weeks. Obviously, it's result season, or year-end season, so just about all the supermarkets' year ends are either between the 1st of Jan and the 1st of April basically.

Darren A. Smith:

Right. Okay. So we're in results season. So you're an experienced person, you've been through this for quite a number of years. I'm an account manager, let's say, what can I expect in results season?

Andrew Grant:

Well, it's one of the things I've been getting the most queries about. Is that obviously, most buyers are working at home, a lot of consolidation of buying teams, so fewer buyers Because I always remember when I used to do it, the pressure to get annual terms agreed with all your suppliers. You inevitably start with the very big ones. But there's then this desperate rush to get the smaller suppliers' terms agreed before the start of your new financial year.

Darren A. Smith:

Yeah, true. Okay. So if I'm a buyer and I'm in results season, January, February, March, I'm trying to get terms agreed with all my suppliers. How many suppliers might I have?

Andrew Grant:

It depends on the size of the category, but 30 to a 100.

Results

 

Darren A. Smith:

Okay. So, there's a lot I've got to get done. And these are quite technical, these are legal things [crosstalk 00:02:07]

Andrew Grant:

No, it's a negotiation. And obviously each year I want a better over rider or I want higher gate fees for those gate fees that you're allowed to do. So you have to have a to and fro conversation with every single supplier, assuming that every single supplier doesn't say yes instantly. But the problem that now happens with GSCOP, and this has been where I've been getting the calls, is that the biggest single protection a supplier has under GSCOP is that the named retailers cannot do anything that is retrospective. It's an absolute no-no.

Darren A. Smith:

All right. So let me just understand that. So I'm an account manager, you're saying that they can't ask me for stuff retrospectively. They can't ask me for, now is the 1st of March or whatever it is, I want stuff for February?

Andrew Grant:

Yeah. Yeah, exactly. So, the difficulties buyers are getting themselves into is that they haven't agreed terms with their suppliers on time. And they're saying things like, look, we haven't agreed terms, we'll roll over this year's terms, which is allowed, but as soon as we do agree terms, the new terms get backdated to the start of my financial year.

Darren A. Smith:

Okay. All right. And so I understand that, are we talking about this is a Tesco or an Asda thing, is this just their policy or is it something more?

Andrew Grant:

Well, obviously only 13 named retailers are covered by GSCOP. Clearly I'm not going to name who ... Our suppliers wouldn't want us to be divulging which particular retailers it is. And it's not any one particular retailer actually. So I don't think it is ... It's not a systemic problem that one retailer is deliberately delaying its terms of negotiations. I genuinely get the impression, it's very busy buyers with lots of suppliers to talk to, and they're running out of time. And so they're then obviously under pressure from their boss and the finance teams to put in place the terms for the new financial year. And some of them are making the mistake of saying, well, we'll backdate the terms to the start of the year, which is an absolute breach of GSCOP.

Darren A. Smith:

Okay. And that's where I was going with my question. This isn't a company policy thing by any of the one or all named retailers, we're talking about a piece of law?

Andrew Grant:

Oh yeah. Yeah, absolutely. No. It's an absolute stand up piece of law that they cannot break. And some very interesting discussions. And the reason that account managers have been talking to us is they want to know, how do I use this? And our advice always is, is there any point making a formal complaint and taking one of these retailers through the legal process? Because you as the supplier don't get much back as a result. However, most buyers will be horrified that they've potentially broken the law. And then obviously you're in a negotiation around terms. So, of course the supplier can agree that we'll backdate terms. But if I was a supplier, I'd want something back in return fairly meaty.

Darren A. Smith:

Of course. And if one of these 13 named retailers does break GSCOP, and they get found out, what's the ultimate penalty of this?

Andrew Grant:

The ultimate penalty is 1% fine of their UK turnover. But what you have to remember is the code's been going since, it's been law since 2010, it's had an adjudicator since 2015, and not a single retailer has been fined yet.

Darren A. Smith:

Yeah. Okay. Okay. And we've got a new groceries code adjudicator just come in, Mark White. Okay.

Andrew Grant:

Yeah.

Darren A. Smith:

And he's done a Q&A on our website. All right, cool. Let's come back to you and the results season, January, February, March, and retailers trying to get money in. You're saying they can't do it retrospectively. I'm an account manager, what else should I be looking out for and being concerned about?

Andrew Grant:

No, good point. Because the other thing that is cropping up, as these terms, documents are flying backwards and forwards, the other two biggest watch words in GSCOP, the difference between request and require. So in very broad terms, there's very little that retailers can require of a supplier, but they can request almost anything.

Darren A. Smith:

Right, okay, got you.

Andrew Grant:

When these potentially retrospective terms documents are flying to and fro, I'm looking at the small print, and it's amazing where it says things like, on agreement of these terms, the supplier agrees to pay for X, Y, and Zed. That's a requirement to me.

Darren A. Smith:

Okay. Okay. So we're getting into some of the gray of the law as to whether that really means require or request. What I'm hearing is three Rs. We've got the retrospective one, which you've explained to us. Then we've got the request and we've got the require. So if nothing else, an account manager ought to have their radar up for these three Rs.

Andrew Grant:

Yeah. And as some of our clients quite rightly have been doing, get on the phone to us or get on the email to us, so that we can give them a bit of guidance. Because to me, as I said, it's not a question of phoning Mark White up and making a formal complaint. I think that could backfire on you.

Andrew Grant:

And we know from all the surveys, that over half the suppliers in the UK are frightened of making a formal complaint in case there's retribution. I get that. But as I said, I would be using it as part of that to and fro negotiation. Negotiation's all about relative power bases, all about tradables. If you can put your buyer on the back foot because they've made probably an inadvertent mistake, they'll be horrified when you call that out. And they'll be much more then open to some form of trading negotiation.

Darren A. Smith:

And that's sometimes all you really want is just to get the buyer to the table to negotiate. And often it can be hard even just to get that to happen.

Andrew Grant:

Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

Darren A. Smith:

All right. So I'm going to ask you to do two things for us to help the people listening. The first is, would you talk about the written supplier agreement for us please. Because I know that's important.

Andrew Grant:

Okay. Well, we haven't got long and it's not necessarily something you can cover comprehensively. But yeah, the written supply agreement is the heart of any protection you have under GSCOP. And this is why these terms documents become important because it's not specified exactly what a written supply agreement looks like. It's not a piece of paper with a great big this is your written supply agreement on it. It is potentially your terms document for next year.

Darren A. Smith:

Okay. Cool. Sorry. Go on.

Andrew Grant:

So, the latest piece of paper, the latest terms document, the latest JBP you have could constitute your written supply agreement. And so, every account manager must go through that, as you've just said, with this GSCOP radar pinging in the head for any one of the three Rs.

Darren A. Smith:

And I understand that from the research only one in two suppliers has it, is my research up to date or has it changed?

Andrew Grant:

Oh no, it's more than that. I do actually forget the number. It's quite a high proportion. I do remember, I think Aldi and Lidl have the highest proportion of their suppliers with a written supply agreement. It's in the 80%s. I think as you get down the bottom of the list, some of the newer retailers added to GSCOP, I still think they're over 50, but don't hold me to that.

Darren A. Smith:

Okay. All right. So we've still got a chunk of suppliers who potentially don't have a written supplier agree