Mark Duggan, The Trione Director of the Stanford Institute for Economic Policy Research and former Senior Economist for Health Care Policy under Obama, was Wayne Hsiung's earliest mentor. At 17 years old, Wayne took Mark's class at University of Chicago and Mark took him under his wing, changing his life trajectory thereafter. Mark was so inspired by Wayne's work while in his class that he convinced Wayne to pursue a Ph.D. in economics and maximize his potential for doing better for the world. Although Wayne found his passion and drive outside of the academy, it was the lessons he learned, the skills he gained, and influence from Mark that drove him to be a data-driven activist, organizer, and force for positive change.

In this episode, Wayne and Mark take us back to that fateful day in Chicago in 1999. They discuss the economic fallout--and future scarring--from Covid and climate change; life in graduate school and searching for a meaningful path; the impact of losing Obamacare; imposing a wealth tax; and Mark watching his life flash before his eyes as he had to brief Obama for the first time.

“Try to get past the Tweets, past the bumper stickers and really understand things.”

“One person's waste is another person's income.”

Becoming A Man - Chicago youth violence reduction project

Robert "Bob" Solow

Mark Duggan's research on the impact of the Affordable Care Act

Wayne and Cass Sunstein's research on the economic costs of climate change

Emmanuel Saez , professor of Economics, UC Berkeley - Progressive Wealth Taxation

Marshall Burke - Managing the growing cost of wildfire

Music by Moby: Everything That Rises