Andrew Messina is a Senior Vice President at Disney Advertising. He began his career on the agency side before moving into daytime sales at ABC, then advancing to a primetime senior account executive role, and ultimately rising to his current position. For the past 17 years, Andrew has led all brand advertising initiatives at Disney Advertising, including linear, programmatic, and addressable campaigns across platforms such as Disney, Disney+, Hulu, FX, and ESPN. 

In today’s episode, Alan and Andrew connect at the Cannes Lions International Festival of Creativity to discuss the integration, sponsorship, and advertising opportunities Disney offers brands across its many properties. Andrew shares how live events – particularly women’s sports – are shaping advertising, highlights the importance of relationship-building in media sales, and explains Disney’s approach to reaching diverse audiences. He also reflects on the importance of mentorship and how AI and youth culture are influencing marketing strategies. 

In this episode, you'll learn: 

How rising viewership of women’s sports is creating new advertising opportunities  

Why cultivating trust is essential for career growth, plus actionable development tips  

Disney’s approach to building relationships with brands  

Key quotes: 

“Relationships really, really matter, and the only way some of these things are going to get done is through making sure you’re connected.” - Andrew Messina, senior vice president at Disney Advertising 

Key highlights: 

[00:30] Introduction  

[01:10] A nontraditional introduction to the industry  

[02:15] Andrew’s path to Disney  

[04:10] The scope of his role 

[05:00] How consumer brands shape the sports landscape 

[07:45] Some of the most valued properties for brands 

[08:45] Co-creation with consumers 

[10:00] Stand-out strategies for auto and retail 

[11:30] Industry transformation over the years 

[13:25] An experience that defines you: The opportunity to learn sales 

[15:40] Advice to your younger self: Develop relationships 

[16:50] A topic marketers need to learn more about: AI 

[17:35] Subcultures and trends to follow: Tastes of the younger audience 

[18:50] Largest threat to marketers today: Complacency  

Resources mentioned:   

Disney Advertising 

Cannes Lions International Festival of Creativity 

College GameDay Built by The Home Depot 

Generation AI by Matt Britton 

Follow the podcast:   

Listen on Apple Podcasts   

Listen on Amazon Music  

Listen on Audible  

Listen on iHeart Radio 

Listen on Spotify   

Connect with Andrew Messina and Disney Advertising: 

Andrew Messina on LinkedIn  

Disney Advertising on LinkedIn  

Disney Advertising on X 

Disney Advertising on Instagram 

Connect with Alan Hart and Deloitte Digital:    

Alan Hart on X 

Alan Hart on LinkedIn  

Deloitte Digital on LinkedIn  

Deloitte Digital on Instagram  

Deloitte Digital on YouTube  

Deloitte Digital on Threads    

Each year, top creative minds gather at the Cannes Lions Cannes Lions International Festival of Creativity for a week of innovations, awards, and candid conversations about the future of marketing. Over the next month, you will get exclusive insight into the latest trends and stories shaping the industry through interviews with leaders from some of the world’s most influential brands, including Google, Disney, and Unilever.   

In this episode, Alan kicks off the miniseries with our “crystal ball confessionals.” Unlike our usual one-on-one interview style episode, today you’ll hear snippets of Alan's conversations with industry leaders, creators, and innovators at Deloitte Digital’s exclusive ‘Collaborate with Certainty’ and ‘Engage with Certainty’ brunches. These short, candid conversations explore the future of marketing, focusing on the evolution of the creator economy, the changing landscape of fan engagement, and the role of data and technology in shaping authentic connections. 

Beginning at the ‘Collaborate with Certainty’ brunch, we explore how the creator economy transforms how brands connect with customers and drive growth. First, Celia Salsi, global head of product marketing at YouTube, shares her insights on why attention, relevance, and trust are crucial for brands striving to stand out in a crowded market. Building on this theme, Kaya Yurieff, team leader for the creator economy at The Information, explores creators' complex and evolving identities. Rounding out the conversation, Kenny Gold, Deloitte Digital’s head of social and creator, shifts the focus to AI, reminding us that, despite technological advances, the true impact of creators remains grounded in authentic human connection. 

Shifting to the ‘Engage with Certainty’ brunch, we tackle the question: What does the fan of the future expect from their entertainment experiences? First, we hear from Emma Simkiss, associate director of brand and marketing at the International Olympic Committee, on how authentic fan engagement is measured by meaningful interaction and loyalty, not just numbers. Michelle McGuire Christian, chief commercial officer for Converge™ by Deloitte for Sports, explains how leveraging data and AI can unlock deeper personalization and help brands truly listen to their audiences. Finally, David Geisinger, Marketing Technology, Data & Operations offering leader at Deloitte Digital, discusses a future where technology transforms fans from passive spectators into active participants, building vibrant two-way communities. 

Key quotes: 

“What we realized through research is that reach alone is no longer enough...They need attention, relevance, and trust. And what we've seen is that creators are best positioned to drive those three.” - Celia Salsi, Global head of product marketing at YouTube 

In this episode, you'll learn: 

The importance of building authentic, long-term relationships with creators 

The value of data in measuring creator impact and fan engagement 

Ways to leverage AI to create personalized connections with your audience 

Key highlights: 

[00:30] Episode introduction  

[02:50] The ‘Collaborate with Certainty’ brunch 

[03:00] Celia Salsi on the evolution of creator relationships  

[06:15] Kaya Yurieff on authentic connections for lasting engagement 

[08:15] Kenny Gold on the importance of genuine collaboration  

[10:20] The ‘Engage with Certainty’ brunch 

[10:30] Emma Simkiss on driving and measuring engagement  

[11:55] Michelle McGuire Christian on the role of data in engagement strategies 

[13:55] David Geisinger on how technology is impacting fan engagement 

[18:00] One-word summaries 

Resources mentioned:   

Cannes Lions International Festival of Creativity 2025 

YouTube 

The Information 

Deloitte Digital 

Deloitte 

International Olympic Committee 

Converge™ by Deloitte for Sports 

Follow the podcast:   

Listen on Apple Podcasts   

Listen on Amazon Music  

Listen on Audible  

Listen on iHeart Radio 

Listen on Spotify   

Connect with the guests:    

Celia Salsi 

Kaya Yurieff 

Kenny Gold 

Emma Simkiss 

Michelle McGuire Christian 

David Geisinger 

Connect with Alan Hart and Deloitte Digital:    

Alan Hart on X 

Alan Hart on LinkedIn  

Deloitte Digital on LinkedIn  

Deloitte Digital on Instagram  

Deloitte Digital on YouTube  

Are your ads landing with consumers? 

According to iHeartMedia's “The New American Consumer 2.0” study, 44% of Americans feel ignored by most media and advertisers .1 

In today’s episode, Alan chats with Gayle Troberman, executive advisor at iHeartMedia, about the gap between marketers and consumers, ways for marketers to bridge this gap, and the marketing principles that stay consistent despite technological advancements.  

Gayle emphasizes the importance of balancing new technology with classic marketing approaches and cautions against neglecting potential customers by focusing too narrowly on the target audience.  She highlights the power of evoking memories in advertising, primarily through audio, with examples of iconic jingles. She also describes why radio and podcasting are effective tools for mass reach and emotional engagement. 

Gayle Troberman is a highly respected marketing industry veteran. She spent 16 years as chief creative officer at Microsoft, then as chief marketing and ideas officer at IPG Mediabrands. She then became chief marketing officer at iHeartMedia for over a decade before moving into her current role as executive advisor. Today, Gayle works across all iHeartMedia businesses to help them connect with consumers in a deeper, more meaningful way. Her “human first, outcome second” approach to life and marketing has kept her consistently in tune with consumers throughout her career. 

In this episode, you'll learn: 

The inspiration behind “The New American Consumer 2.0” study and insights from the research  

How marketers can better understand their audience  

Approaches to using AI and targeting to add value from a consumer perspective 

Key quotes: 

“Every time a new technology comes along... marketers think it's like the world has to change, and it really doesn't. If you know who your brand is and you know where you want to find growth, then it's about telling good stories. It's about being relevant to those consumers.” - Gayle Troberman, executive advisor at iHeartMedia   

“We sometimes let innovation get in the way of growth, or we get so enamored with the technology or the opportunity that we forget any of these platforms, any of these news tools, whether it's AI or targeting, are only as good as the stories we put out there.” - Gayle Troberman, executive advisor at iHeartMedia   

“The average marketer may not be as in touch with their consumers as they think they are... I think part of the problem is that we're very often talking to ourselves. Our ads are reflecting this bubble we live in. Our ads are not reflecting the values, the beliefs, the interests, or the passions of the real American consumers.” - Gayle Troberman, executive advisor at iHeartMedia   

“There's genius out there everywhere if you just talk to humans.” - Gayle Troberman, executive advisor at iHeartMedia   

Key highlights: 

[00:32] Introduction  

[01:45] A ”muppalucky” life  

[02:50] Gayle’s career path  

[05:50] The secret to a long CMO tenure  

[07:45] Enduring truths in marketing  

[13:40] “The New American Consumer Report 2.0” 

[18:25] How marketers can reconnect with everyday consumers 

[22:40] Who has influence?  

[24:15] Using AI in a mindful way 

[28:30] An experience that defines you: Developing a human-first philosophy 

[31:30] Advice to your younger self: A little more patience and empathy 

[33:00] A topic marketers need to learn more about: Balancing the new with the classics 

[34:15] Subcultures and trends to follow: Young people taking strong stances 

[35:35] Largest opportunity and threat to marketers today: Fake performance indicators 

Resources mentioned:   

Gayle Troberman 

iHeartMedia 

"The New American Consumer 2.0" press release 

“The New American Consumer 2.0” study  

Follow the podcast:   

Listen on Apple Podcasts   

Listen on Amazon Music  

Listen on Audible  

Listen on iHeart Radio 

Listen on Spotify   

Connect with Gayle Troberman and iHeartMedia: 

Gayle Troberman on LinkedIn  

iHeartMedia on LinkedIn 

iHeartMedia on Instagram 

iHeartMedia on YouTube 

Connect with Alan Hart and Deloitte Digital:    

Alan Hart on X 

Alan Hart on LinkedIn  

Deloitte Digital on LinkedIn  

Deloitte Digital on Instagram  

Deloitte Digital on YouTube  

Deloitte Digital on Threads    

How do you determine your product's market value beyond its features? 

In today’s episode, Alan and Sjoerd Handgraaf, Sharetribe's chief marketing officer (CMO), discuss Sharetribe’s origins, product evolution, and how Sjoerd’s team identified its ideal product positioning by evaluating the true value it provides to marketplace founders. Sjoerd shares insights into the unique dynamics of building and branding two-sided marketplaces and explains how a “give first, ask later” philosophy has helped Sharetribe develop trust and lasting relationships with its community.  

Sjoerd grew up as a do-it-yourself (DIY) punk rocker in a steel town in the Netherlands. He originally planned to become an English teacher, but love brought him to Finland, where he discovered the startup world. With his DIY background, Sjoerd joined Sharetribe as the first marketing hire in 2016 and became CMO in 2020. Sharetribe is a software as a service (SaaS) solution that aims to democratize the sharing economy by empowering marketplace founders with a no-code platform builder.  

Key quotes: 

“We just put value out in the world, and we hope that convinces people to at least give us a try.” - Sjoerd Handgraaf, chief marketing officer at Sharetribe 

 “Look at what your [product’s] unique benefits are compared to those [competitive alternatives] and then try to wrap those [benefits] in value, not features. A lot of tech marketers are quite fond of listing the features, but what is the value that [the feature] unlocks? What is the thing that it gives to customers?”” - Sjoerd Handgraaf, chief marketing officer at Sharetribe 

In this episode, you'll learn: 

Common pitfalls to avoid when starting a marketplace business  

How to conduct an objective self-assessment to clarify positioning 

Sjoerd’s tips for marketers on navigating AI  

Key highlights: 

[00:30] Introduction  

[01:38] A punk record label mogul 

[03:00] The Dutch directness  

[05:15] Sjoerd’s path to Sharetribe 

[09:17] Who does Sharetribe serve? 

[10:40] Sharetribe’s origin story  

[16:30] How to get the product positioning right 

[33:27] The notion of “give first, ask later” 

[28:25] Why marketing is moving back to basics 

[31:15] Lessons learned from Two-Sided: The marketplace podcast 

[36:15] An experience that defines you: Being a DIY punk 

[37:20] Advice to your younger self: Be even more entrepreneurial 

[38:05] A topic marketers need to learn more about: AI is unavoidable 

[42:55] Subcultures and trends to follow: No-Code and Indie Hackers 

[44:35] Largest opportunity and threat to marketers today: Leveling up with AI  

Resources mentioned:   

Sjoerd Handgraaf 

Sharetribe 

Two-sided: The Marketplace Podcast  

The Lean Marketplace 

Follow the podcast:   

Listen on Apple Podcasts   

Listen on Amazon Music  

Listen on Audible  

Listen on iHeart Radio 

Listen on Spotify   

Connect with Sjoerd Handgraaf and Sharetribe: 

Sharetribe on X 

Sharetribe on Facebook 

Sharetribe on YouTube  

Connect with Alan Hart and Deloitte Digital:    

Alan Hart on X 

Alan Hart on LinkedIn  

Deloitte Digital on LinkedIn  

Deloitte Digital on Instagram  

Deloitte Digital on YouTube  

Deloitte Digital on Threads    

Can streetwear be made with zero plastic?  

Eric Liedtke says it can be, and he is on a mission to systematically change the fashion industry by shifting away from petroleum-based materials to plant-based materials. In 2014, Eric was already a leader in the fashion industry as the Head of Sports Performance at Adidas when the issues of micro and nano plastics were brought to his attention. As a vegan who loves to surf, Eric could not turn away from the fact that his work in fashion was contributing to the problem. By 2019, he stepped away from his executive board position at Adidas to launch UNLESS Collective, a statement streetwear brand with a regenerative creation model, meaning their products are made sustainably using zero plastic and decompose into nutrient-rich soil. UNLESS was recently acquired by Under Armour, and with that acquisition, Eric was also hired as their executive vice president of brand strategy.  

In today’s episode, Alan and Eric talk about what the acquisition means for UNLESS Collective’s mission, how it fits into Under Armour’s larger strategy, and where Eric thinks the Under Armour brand can go. UNLESS is on the cutting edge of sustainable fashion, and solutions to many of its challenges are still being invented. The backing of Under Armour has empowered UNLESS to invest in the research needed to make Eric’s dreams a reality. With a background leading brands like Reebok, Eric also understands that UNLESS must meet consumers where they are and not ask them to compromise their tastes or budgets. Once the tech is fully developed and brought to market correctly, Eric believes they will truly transform the fashion industry. 

Key quotes: 

“People care. The [challenge] is they don’t want to compromise their taste or the quality of the product for their values, and they don’t want to compromise really too much on price.” - Eric Liedtke, executive vice president of brand strategy at Under Armour and founder and chief executive officer of UNLESS Collective 

“So, step one, get the value at the same level they’re [the customer is] expecting, get the quality at the same level they’re expecting, get the taste at the same level they’re expecting, [and] get it built on a better stack. Step two is scaling the brand and getting the volumes to hit the unit economics on par.” - Eric Liedtke, executive vice president of brand strategy at Under Armour and founder and chief executive officer of UNLESS Collective 

In this episode, you'll learn: 

How UNLESS is overcoming the challenges of manufacturing streetwear with zero petroleum-based materials 

Eric's strategy to bring innovative value-aligned products to market at scale 

The importance of authenticity in modern marketing  

Key highlights: 

[02:25] Eric's career path  

[06:40] The founding story of UNLESS 

[10:40] Zero wasted hours  

[13:20] The logistics of moving from plastic to plant-based  

[18:00] Evolving marketing with technology 

[21:30] Benefits of working with Under Armour  

[23:45] Propelling the Under Armour brand 

[27:15] An experience that defines you: Having purpose-led parents 

[30:10] Advice to your younger self: Don’t let perfect get in the way of better 

[31:25] A topic marketers need to learn more about: People want real 

[34:00] Subcultures to follow: Surf 

[35:40] Largest opportunity and threat to marketers today: AI and authenticity  

Resources mentioned:   

Eric Liedtke 

UNLESS Collective 

Under Armour 

Parley for the Oceans 

Follow the podcast:   

Listen on Apple Podcasts   

Listen on Amazon Music  

Listen on Audible  

Listen on iHeart Radio 

Listen on Spotify   

Connect with Eric Liedtke, UNLESS Collective, and Under Armour 

Eric Liedtke on LinkedIn  

Eric Liedtke on Instagram 

UNLESS Collective on Instagram 

UNLESS Collective on TikTok 

Under Armour on X 

Under Armour Instagram 

Connect with Alan Hart and Deloitte Digital:    

Alan Hart on X 

Alan Hart on LinkedIn  

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Deloitte Digital on Instagram  

Deloitte Digital on YouTube  

Deloitte Digital on Threads    

What do executive recruiters look for when placing chief marketing officer (CMO) candidates? Why do CMOs have some of the shortest average tenures among the C-suite?  

Richard Sanderson has spent nearly his entire career as an executive recruiter. He began as an intern at Russell Reynolds Associates in the United Kingdom, then eventually joined them full-time, and was relocated to the United States. He went on to get his Master of Business Administration from the University of Chicago before shifting into a new role as Senior Associate at Booz & Company. After five years in consulting, Richard rejoined Russell Reynolds Associates before moving into his current marketing, communications, and sales practice leader role at Spencer Stuart. In his role, he has led a series of high-profile Fortune 500 chief marketing officer (CMO) searches. 

In today's episode, Alan and Richard break down the 2025 Chief Marketing Officer Tenure Study. They discuss what the data shows regarding career trajectories, changing titles and expectations, and the future of marketing leadership. Richard also shares what he seeks in CMO candidates when filling a role, provides listeners with actionable tips for interviews, and suggests that marketers align their language with their CEO’s priorities. 

In this episode, you'll learn: 

The ABCs of interviewing: Leading practices and common pitfalls 

Career paths for CMOs after their tenure  

What shifting marketing leadership titles means for the role 

Key quotes: 

“Yes, it's your resume that gets your foot in the door... but it's the chemistry and the culture that gets you the job.” - Richard Sanderson, marketing, sales, and communications practice leader at Spencer Stuart 

“Low tenure is not a sign of failure... Many marketing leaders are being promoted into bigger and better roles. So, in other words, short tenure [does not mean] a bunch of CMOs [are] being fired. It's quite the opposite... a bunch of CMOs being promoted and given other opportunities.” - Richard Sanderson, marketing, sales, and communications practice leader at Spencer Stuart 

“Ultimately, when you think about the constituents of the C-suite, who is the voice of the customer? Is it the chief financial officer? Not really. Is it the chief information officer? I don't think so. Is it the chief HR leader? No. Really... the marketing leader is the true customer or consumer advocate; they are the voice of the customer.” - Richard Sanderson, marketing, sales, and communications practice leader at Spencer Stuart

Key highlights: 

[02:10] A new (destructive) addition to the family  

[03:35] Richard’s unusual path to executive recruiting  

[06:55] How to shine in the job search and interview 

[13:36] CMO tenure data 

[17:00] Why CEO tenure is an outlier  

[19:05] Where do the CMOs go? 

[23:45] Evolution of the CMO role in financial services and healthcare 

[26:05] Changing titles and responsibilities 

[29:05] The marketing to CEO pipeline 

[32:00] An experience that defines you: Living cross-culturally 

[34:35] Advice to your younger self: Treasure your time 

[36:15] A topic marketers need to learn more about: The shifts in industry and politicization of brands 

[40:30] Largest opportunity to marketers today: Align the agenda and talk the language  

Resources mentioned:   

Richard Sanderson 

Spencer Stuart 

2025 CMO Tenure Study 

Follow the podcast:   

Listen on Apple Podcasts   

Listen on Amazon Music  

Listen on Audible  

Listen on iHeart Radio 

Listen on Spotify   

Connect with Richard Sanderson and Spencer Stuart 

Richard Sanderson on LinkedIn 

Spencer Stuart on X 

Spencer Stuart on Facebook 

Spencer Stuart on YouTube 

Connect with Alan Hart and Deloitte Digital:    

Alan Hart on X 

Alan Hart on LinkedIn  

Deloitte Digital on LinkedIn  

Deloitte Digital on Instagram  

Deloitte Digital on YouTube  

Deloitte Digital on Threads    

What lessons can marketers learn from Taylor Swift’s massive success? 

In today's episode, Alan Hart talks with Kevin Evers, senior editor at Harvard Business Review and author of the book There’s Nothing Like This: The Strategic Genius of Taylor Swift, about the branding and strategy lessons marketers can learn from the record-breaking artist. He reveals what prompted him to write about Swift and the commonalities he discovered between Taylor, Jeff Bezos, Jerry Garcia, The Beatles, and Reddit's true crime communities. 

Kevin explains that since the start of her career, Taylor has created “blank space” for herself in crowded categories through innovative differentiation techniques, like insisting on writing her own songs as a teen girl for teen girls at a time when most hits on country radio were performed by men. He notes she has a classic entrepreneurial spirit that has helped her beat the odds and defy what the data said was possible to reach levels of fame beyond most people’s expectations. Kevin and Alan discuss the rebranding lessons marketers can learn from Taylor’s transition from country to pop music and noting how she integrates personal connection into every aspect of her approach while maintaining the allure of scarcity with her dedicated fanbase.  

Kevin suggests that Taylor Swift’s success goes beyond her songwriting talent and superstar status. He believes it’s her strategic marketing approach and deep connection with her fans that truly set her apart—a lesson that all marketers can learn from.  

Key quotes: 

"Her customer obsession is her secret sauce. Again, incredibly talented, a great songwriter, but talent isn’t necessarily a scalable asset, but she knows that her fans are a scalable asset.” - Kevin Evers, senior editor at Harvard Business Review 

“She sets high expectations and then she exceeds those expectations. And in most cases, she gives fans more than they maybe even deserve and I think that fan obsession is a big part of why her fans stick around for so long, and when she’s able to recruit new fans.” - Kevin Evers, senior editor at Harvard Business Review 

In this episode, you'll learn: 

The importance of Taylor Swift's “fan-first approach”  

Rebranding lessons from her shift from country to pop 

How Taylor has wisely evolved her marketing strategy over the years  

Key highlights: 

[01:30] Delayed speech created a great interviewer  

[03:00] Kevin’s unconventional path to Harvard Business Review 

[03:55] Where did the idea for his new book come from? 

[05:15] Taylor Swift as a brand 

[06:35] A “fans first approach” 

[12:00] Taylor’s approach to risk 

[14:00] Rebranding from country to pop 

[16:55] Pros and cons of fame 

[18:25] How Tayor's media strategy has shifted 

[24:45] Differentiation in a crowded category 

[28:45] An experience that defines you: Embracing the creative process 

[30:20] Advice to your younger self: It’s all going to be okay 

[33:20] A topic marketers need to learn more about: What will break through?  

[35:05] Subcultures to follow: Superfan subculture  

[36:10] Largest threat to marketers today: A crowded marketplace  

Resources mentioned:   

Kevin Evers 

Harvard Business Review 

There’s Nothing Like This: The Strategic Genius of Taylor Swift  

The Strategic Genius of Taylor Swift  

Grateful Dead Bootlegs 

Pear Jam Wishlist  

Deep Taylor Fandom on Reddit 

Follow the podcast:   

Listen on Apple Podcasts   

Listen on Amazon Music  

Listen on Audible  

Listen on iHeart Radio 

Listen on Spotify   

Connect with Kevin Evers and Harvard Business Review 

Kevin Evers on X 

Harvard Business Review on X 

Harvard Business Review on Instagram 

There’s Nothing Like This on Instagram 

Connect with Alan Hart and Deloitte Digital:    

Alan Hart on X 

Alan Hart on LinkedIn  

Deloitte Digital on LinkedIn  

Deloitte Digital on Instagram  

Deloitte Digital on YouTube  

Deloitte Digital on Threads    

What if you could know how new creative would perform before you invest in it? This is the exact functionality Adobe's latest creative intelligence tools are working towards.  

In today's episode, Alan chats with Ed Kennedy, group product marketing manager at Adobe, to explore their new Generative AI (GenAI) tools. These tools provide a gateway for marketers to scale the impact of GenAI while maintaining the balance between cost efficiency and performance. Ed leads all the go-to-market strategy for Adobe's new GenAI products. This includes GenStudio for Performance Marketing which provides granular insights down to specific attributes of each ad, so marketers and creatives can work simultaneously to activate high-performing campaigns. 

GenAI is causing many agencies and brand leaders to reevaluate their operating model, but Ed tells Alan that Adobe believes in an "AI-created, human-perfected" approach. This means GenAI takes on the low-value, repetitive, mundane tasks in the creative process, and then humans review and approve. If “marketers are marketing to consumers or businesses, then the humans are going to be in the driving seat,” Ed notes in response to concerns around AI. He also outlines the best use cases for AI agents and cautions marketers against skepticism of this evolving technology. 

Key quotes: 

“We're big on "AI created, human-perfected" in all the go-to-market messaging that we're bringing out and helping CMOs understand they can do this.” - Ed Kennedy, group product marketing manager at Adobe 

“If you can look at the performance of the ad itself on the content or creative level, you can quickly double down on what's working and turn off what's not working. And I think that's where we're saving our clients spend because we're just not putting dollars behind bad creative or just underperforming creative.” - Ed Kennedy, group product marketing manager at Adobe 

“Our ultimate vision is that you should actually be able to score your creative before it ships – if it actually is going to perform well.” - Ed Kennedy, group product marketing manager at Adobe 

“We're trying to get to a place... where the brief becomes the new prompt. So instead of entering a prompt to get content, you submit your brief and ... the agent starts working for you.” - Ed Kennedy, group product marketing manager at Adobe 

In this episode, you'll learn: 

Potential business use cases for GenAI today 

How Adobe GenStudio is bringing marketers and creatives closer together through data 

What the future of marketing jobs may look like  

Key highlights: 

[01:25] Yoga for work-life balance 

[02:50] Ed’s path to Adobe 

[03:55] The scope of his role  

[04:30] GenAI to drive advertising performance  

[06:05] Versioning with GenAI  

[07:45] Reevaluating the operating model 

[10:05] Scaling the impact of GenAI 

[11:45] Cost efficiency versus performance 

[12:50] What is creative intelligence? 

[15:20] Bringing performance and creative closer to data  

[18:05] AI agents and internal evangelists  

[21:30] An experience that defines you: It’s a ride, not a race 

[25:25] Advice to your younger self: Drop the intensity and expectations  

[26:45] A topic marketers need to learn more about: F.I.R.E  

[28:10] What are you curious about: AI video generation  

[29:50] Largest threat to marketers today: Cynicism on the sidelines  

Resources mentioned:   

Ed Kennedy 

Adobe 

GenStudio 

Agentic AI 

GenAI 

Follow the podcast:   

Listen on Apple Podcasts   

Listen on Amazon Music  

Listen on Audible  

Listen on iHeart Radio 

Listen on Spotify   

Connect with Ed Kennedy and Adobe 

Ed Kennedy on X 

Ed Kennedy on LinkedIn 

Adobe Experience Cloud on X 

Adobe on X 

Adobe on Instagram 

Connect with Alan Hart and Deloitte Digital:    

Alan Hart on X 

Alan Hart on LinkedIn  

Deloitte Digital on LinkedIn  

Deloitte Digital on Instagram  

Deloitte Digital on YouTube  

Deloitte Digital on Threads    

Ryan Fleisch is the head of product marketing for Adobe Real-Time Customer Data Platform (CDP), and audience manager at Adobe. He is also a recent first-time girl dad and Alan's go-to technology whisperer. Ryan has experience on both the agency and brand sides of digital marketing and has been with Adobe since 2014. His current role, coupled with his previous leadership roles in solution consulting, has allowed him to understand the technical nuances of marketing and advertising technology and the big-picture trends that are transforming the industry at large. 

In today’s episode, Alan and Ryan reconnect for another interview at Adobe Summit 2025 to discuss Adobe’s new marketer-first data collaboration tools and what marketing professionals need to know to help them stay ahead of the curve. When it comes to winning impressions in the crowded attention economy, using data wisely is the difference between standing out and blending in with the thousands of ads consumers see daily. Ryan also explains how agentic AI can help marketers move from data synthesis to action, allowing them to scale their impact as individuals and departments. 

Key quotes: 

“Agentic AI doesn't just understand my business data. It actually understands my business processes and my goals” - Ryan Fleisch, head of product marketing for Adobe Real-Time CDP, and audience manager at Adobe 

In this episode, you'll learn: 

How to understand the attention economy  

Why “clean sketches” may replace “clean rooms” 

What agentic AI could mean for your marketing strategy  

Key highlights: 

[02:05] “The sleep deprivation is real.”

[03:30] Ryan’s path to Adobe  

[06:00] Understanding the attention economy 

[08:25] The data tradeoff between scale and accuracy 

[10:30] Launching Real-Time CDP evaluations  

[11:30] Old “clean rooms” versus new “clean sketches”  

[14:45] AI empowering humans to do what they do best 

[16:40] Generative AI versus agentic AI 

[20:10] Sorry Spock, Emotions Drive Business 

[22:45] An experience that defines you: Don't fear the bunk bed 

[25:30] Advice to your younger self: Look at the big picture  

[27:05] A topic marketers need to learn more about: Agentic AI and physical art 

[28:50] Subcultures to follow: Appreciate artists 

[29:35] Largest opportunity or threat to marketers today: Pairing content with data 

Resources mentioned:   

Ryan Fleisch 

Adobe 

Adobe Real-Time CDP 

Adobe Audience Manager 

Announcement of new Adobe Real-Time CDP collaboration 

Follow the podcast:   

Listen on Apple Podcasts   

Listen on Amazon Music  

Listen on Audible  

Listen on iHeart Radio 

Listen on Spotify   

Connect with Ryan Fleish and Adobe 

Ryan Fleisch on LinkedIn 

Adobe on X 

Adobe on Instagram 

 Connect with Alan Hart and Deloitte Digital:    

Alan Hart on X 

Alan Hart on LinkedIn  

Deloitte Digital on LinkedIn  

Deloitte Digital on Instagram  

Deloitte Digital on YouTube  

Deloitte Digital on Threads  

Kevin Hein is the chief growth officer (CGO) at GIPHY. He began his print publishing career with Ziff Davis when print and tech were merging. Here, he learned the fundamentals of strategic selling while working on the PC magazine account. Kevin joined GIPHY in August 2024 and has since been instrumental in transforming GIPHY into a unique platform that connects brands with audiences through messaging. Under his leadership, GIPHY has expanded its advertiser base, introduced innovative ad formats, and positioned itself as a key player in the messaging ecosystem, driving significant revenue growth and delivering exceptional client results. 

Kevin joins Alan Hart at South by Southwest (SXSW) to discuss the unique positioning GIPHY offers brands–to become part of cultural conversations in an additive rather than intrusive way. GIPHY's daily reach touches over 1 billion people worldwide, creating a magical moment when users discover the perfect GIF to convey what words alone cannot. GIPHY collaborates with brands to seamlessly integrate their messages into this magic, transforming existing creative, optimizing new ideas, and experimenting in safe, engaging ways that drive organic, long-term results.  Kevin explains the collaboration process with GIPHY, why he thinks all brands need to experiment with creativity, and what marketers can learn from innovative online content creators.  

Key quote: 

“The beauty and the elegance [of] GIPHY is that it’s part of the conversation. It’s not intrusive, it’s additive. It’s a natural extension of what you're talking about.” - Kevin Hein, Chief growth officer, GIPHY 

In this episode, you'll learn: 

• How brands can influence culture without being intrusive
• What collaboration looks like with GIPHY 
• The value of creative experimentation 

Key highlights: 

• [01:20] For the love of car detailing  

• [02:45] Kevin's path to GIPHY 

• [05:40] Understanding GIPHY today 

• [08:48] Where to go when you’re already everywhere 

• [10:45] What makes GIPHY unique 

• [13:05] Cut downs and brand collaborations  

• [16:30] Where dexterity meets data  

• [19:20] Making magic with Mug Root Beer 

• [24:50] Investing in safe experimentation  

• [26:10] An experience that defines you: “It’s just a chapter” 

• [28:10] Advice to your younger self: Give people space to prove you wrong 

• [29:55] A topic marketers need to learn more about: AI experimentation 

• [32:50] Subcultures to follow: Innovative online creators 

• [39:55] Why experiment when everything is going great 

• [44:10] Largest opportunity or threat to marketers today: Test and learn  

Resources mentioned:   

• Kevin Hein 

• GIPHY 

• GIPHY Studios 

• GIPHY's daily reach statistic 

• Mug Root Beer and Mug Root Beer on GIPHY 

• Waz up Super Bowl Commercial 

• Justin Flom, magician and YouTuber

Follow the podcast:   

• Listen on Apple Podcasts
• Listen on Amazon Music
• Listen on Audible
• Listen on iHeart Radio
• Listen on Spotify   

Connect with Kevin Hein and GIPHY:  

• Kevin Hein on LinkedIn
• GIPHY on X
• GIPHY on Instagram 

Connect with Alan Hart and Deloitte Digital:    

• Alan Hart on X 
• Alan Hart on LinkedIn 
• Deloitte Digital on LinkedIn 
• Deloitte Digital on Instagram 
• Deloitte Digital on YouTube 
• Deloitte Digital on Threads

Post-production credits:  

• Integrity Media Solutions LLC