MASKulinity Podcast

In this final episode of the season, Samantha and Remoy tackle a question that’s been at the heart of so many conversations lately: Are men truly lonely? It’s a topic that hits home for so many of us, especially as we think about how gender norms shape not just our actions but our deepest connections.

Luckily, The Pew Research Center has been hard at work exploring these very questions. Their latest report, Men, Women, and Social Connections, sheds light on the gendered trends shaping relationships in America today. Samantha had the chance to sit down with Kim Parker, one of the report's lead researchers, to dig into the findings. And in this episode, she brings all those insights back to Remoy. 

• Samantha starts by asking Remoy a big question: How optimistic is he about life these days? Turns out, his answer puts him in the minority. Pew found that 58% of Americans lean optimistic, while 42% do not.
• Kim Parker shares the backstory behind this paper and how it fits into Pew’s larger research initiative on gender and masculinity. It’s all part of a broader effort to understand how Americans are thinking and feeling about these issues in real time.
• The big question: Are men lonelier than women? Samantha reveals the surprising (albeit nuanced) findings to Remoy, and the two dive into why this narrative about men and loneliness has taken hold.
• Pew’s research uncovered fascinating details about men’s and women’s social networks. On the surface, they don’t look that different. But dig deeper, and you find differences in how men and women use and interact with the people around them.
  • Remoy gets candid about his own experiences, admitting that even with a great support system, reaching out for help as a man still feels like a major challenge.
• Samantha asks Kim about the connection between this report and Pew’s earlier findings in How Americans See Men and Masculinity. Why do Americans say they want men to be more caring and vulnerable, yet men still struggle to seek support?
• The loneliness conversation takes an unexpected turn when Samantha reveals which group of people Pew identified as being lonelier than most. Spoiler: It involves the internet—and the way technology has become an inseparable part of their everyday lives.
  • Samantha and Kim unpack how tech dependence can create unique barriers to connection, making it especially hard for this group to break out of loneliness.
• Finally, Samantha and Remoy reflect on the importance of self-care and taking a step back when needed. With everything happening in the world, it’s a reminder we all need.
  • Important Note: MASKulinity is taking a few months off to rest, recharge, and come back stronger than ever. We’re so grateful to all of you who’ve joined us on this journey. Stay tuned for more powerful, curious stories about how masculinity shapes our world—and how we can reshape it together. See you soon! 👋

Referenced on this episode:

• Here’s that surprising new report–Men, Women and Social Connections
• How American Politics REALLY Sees Men & MASKulinity - Our earlier episode analyzing Pew Research Center’s latest report on men and masculinity with report author and Senior Associate Director of Research at PEW Research Center, Juliana Horowitz and Next Gen Men’s Equity Leaders’ Trevor Mayoh
• How Americans See Men and Masculinity - Pew Research Center report
• A long time ago, we talked with Yuval Moses about what happens when men are victims of violent crime
• Beyond the Binary: Expanding Gender Identity Representation in Data Collection

COMPANION PIECES:

• Pew Research Center ‘s study on Americans’ news sources
• MANY young people are getting their news from TikTok
• Male loneliness is often a topic of conversation

We’re at the start of award season, so it’s a perfect time to continue exploring MASKulinity on TV. This week, Samantha and Remoy walk each other through popular shows they’ve watched and ask, How are men and masculinity represented in these shows? Are they challenging the norm of MASKulinity or reinforcing it?

• Samantha starts off with a nod to Golden Globe-nominated Nobody Wants This for its evolved masculinity moments. Adam Brody has been in his nurturing masculinity bag since the early 2000s and we’re here for it!
• She then winds our TVs back to the late ‘90s for a look at a breakthrough TV show at the time: Sex and The City.
  • Remoy questions focusing on men while talking about a show that centers women. At any other time, Samantha would agree, butcher contends that it is helpful to see how women can perpetuate patriarchy.
  • What are men like in a TV show that entirely focuses on the dating and sex lives of attractive women? Samantha reflects back on the different love interests in the show and how their viability as a partner was measured.
    • Carrie’s main love interests, Mr. Big and Aidan, embodied two different sides of the coin that is traditional masculinity. Neither challenge patriarchal norms, still, it’s worth asking: Why would an emotionally unavailable tycoon be a better suited partner than a nurturing provider? Short answer: patriarchal tropes. Long answer: Nice guys finish last in the patriarchy, and SATC is no different.
    • Remoy acknowledges his own past as a Mr. Big type, proving that emotional unavailability doesn't have to be lifelong!
  • Remoy didn’t regret missing the show, but he couldn’t help but wonder, Do these stereotypical dating situations on TV inform our real dating lives or is it the other way around?
  • Patriarchy didn’t just impact dating in SATC. Casual homophobia, racism, and transphobia were peppered throughout the show.
    • The two call out that SATC touted itself as a feminist show, but only explored well-to-do, slim white women’s dating and sex lives. Everyone else does feel othered including men, who are one-dimensional and just meant to be chosen.
    • Samantha admits why she continued to watch the show despite all these tropes. She reflects on her younger self’s patriarchal leanings.
  • There were good things about SATC. While missing clear opportunities to be inclusive and well-rounded in their depictions of dating life in New York City,
  • Where the characters in the MASK On, MASK Off game from our “TV Dads” episode grappled with masculinity, SATC sticks to traditional expectations of masculinity by condensing male characters into three types. [13:00] Do you agree? Let us know!
• Samantha ends her story with a quick note on the SATC reboot, And Just Like That.
  • People have been vocal about how the show is forcibly inclusive.
    • Samantha shares some examples and opines on how evolved the reboot is compared to the old show.
    • What your verdict? Has this franchise evolved? Holler at us! @ maskulinitypod
• Remoy takes the mic and picks up where he left off with his new favorite show, Shrinking.
  • In Shrinking, men, and characters in general, are imparted with nuance and humanity that was clearly missing from SATC’s supporting characters.
  • Remoy maintains his fave was snubbed at the Golden Globes and attempts to foster appreciation in Samantha for his new show.
  • He shares a few clips from the show and lets Samantha ask clarifying questions about the show.
    • Cue in intergenerational friendships, community problem-solving, open communication with teenage children, and healthy grey-area relationships between men and women.
  • Shrinking does what And Just Like That attempted to do but in a realistic and relatable manner.
    • Changing neighborhood dynamics leads folks to call out racist behavior, rather than yearning for the past.
      • Remoy breaks down how characters deal with grief and changing dynamics in their lives.
      • Samantha immediately takes to Derek and Remoy gives her the lowdown.
    • In this ensemble cast, there are various folks support each other.
      • The relationship between father and daughter is quite moving.
    • Remoy gives praise to the writing of the show gracefully weaving themes

Referenced on this episode:

• Our episode on TV Dads
• The paper that informed Samantha’s gamifying of TV dads? That’s–Laughing at Men: Masculinities in Contemporary Sitcoms
• Our other TV episode: The Fresh Prince and 📺 Episode

COMPANION PIECES:

• Shrinking isn’t the only show demonstrating healthy masculinity
• Toxic Masculinity and Big vs. Aidan: How ‘Sex and the City’s’ love triangle has aged

Going off an earlier episode where Samantha tested Remoy’s musical knowledge, this week Samantha checks in on what Remoy knows about TV. Through round after round, our two co hosts explore how TV dads and masculinity have evolved over the decades.

• Samantha kicks things off with a clip of Al Bundy and his daughter Kelly. Does Remoy remember anything about this dysfunctional yet iconic duo? And what does our laughter about their relationship on Married With Children tell us about fatherhood three decades ago?
  • Bonus Episode:  Remoy has to know. Was Samantha’s own relationship with her father’s anything like Al and Kelly’s?
• You can’t not talk 90’s TV Dads and not think TGIF: Samantha highlights a heartfelt moment between Carl and Eddie Winslow, one of the few Black father-son relationships on 90s TV.
  • They break down how Family Matters portrayed manhood and why this mattered for representation at the time.
• Samantha skips forward a decade or two to show Remoy the ultimate suburban survivalist: Modern Family’s Phil Dunphy has a near-death epiphany on a camping trip. Remoy reflects on how Phil represents a new era of goofy yet emotionally vulnerable TV dads.
• You can’t not talk TV and not talk animation. But it isn’t Bart and Homer for Samantha. It’s Bob Belcher from Bob’s Burgers who in a tender and hilariously awkward clip bonds with his daughter Tina during a “hairy” situation.
  • Samantha wants to know. Are there any African daughters out there who their father shared in the pain  of getting their legs waxed in solidarity? If so, email us at [email protected]
• Another Black father and duo + Schmitt. No it’s not New Girl. It’s The Neighborhood on CBS.
  • TV laugh tracks aside, Samantha and Remoy take a moment to appreciate a really tender and evolved, but not perfect, moment in modern TV.
• Samantha shows Remoy a lesser seen moment on TV: An immigrant father-son moment from the crowd favorite Fresh off the Boat.
  • A sweet moment portrayed on the screen for an Asian dad. But would huckster chef Eddie Huang, whose life story the show was modeled off of, approve? Would Remoy?
  • What do you think after hearing the clip? Hit us at our inboxes and let us know [email protected].
• Remoy is sold and wants to play. He shares with Samantha a moment from a new comedy he’s been loving. Any guesses to what that series is?
  • Let’s just say Harrison Ford playing a therapist and being vulnerable on screen with Jason Segel and many more is a win for both Samantha and Remoy as they appreciate where TV has come over 30 years.

Referenced on this episode:

• The paper that informed Samantha’s gamifying of TV dads? That’s–Laughing at Men: Masculinities in Contemporary Sitcoms
• Our guide to navigate being Home ALONE for the Holidays
• Our new classic episode: The Fresh Prince and 📺 Episode
• The original Samantha gaming gem 💎: UnMASKing Masculinity: Music Trivia Edition 🎶
• Even though Fresh of the Boat isn’t directly referenced in this previous episode, our conversation with Dr. William Liu covers a lot of relevant subject matter. Listen to The Racial Hierarchy of MASKulinity, with Dr. Liu - Part 1 ENCORE
• Were you ever rocked by the entrance of Stefan Urquelle on Family Matters. Remoy was. And he chronicled it in a classic episode for the Spotify original podcast–Not past It
• Yes, Remoy once wrote TV criticism on Tumblr–basically his televised version of letterboxd had an apt title: Because TV Raised Us

COMPANION PIECES:

• The guide to Samantha’s game? Yep it boils down once again to that now seminal report from Pew Research center: How Americans See Men and Masculinity

This week, we’re excited to bring a conversation from NGM Pathways’ live community event to our feed. The good folks at our presenting organization, Next Gen Men, hosted Samantha and Remoy for a Q&A session about the US election. We stop just short of the audience Q&A to maintain privacy of the participants. Tune in!

Remoy and Samantha start out with a shout-out to self-care. It’s been a month since the election and some tough conversations with loved ones may have happened/may be coming up—it’s important to take a moment for ourselves.

• Therapy is still the greatest thing ever. Remoy shouts out his own therapist and Samantha is excited to return this week.
• Male loneliness continues to be high—Samantha calls back the mental health conversation they had with resident counselor Justin Lioi this time last year.

Next Gen Men’s new community manager, Charlotte Kinloch, starts out with land acknowledgments. We remember that we are on stolen land both in the US and in Canada, as we start the conversation. 

Charlotte leads us into unpacking the election…

• Was this election gendered? It certainly didn’t have to be but it was. A white male convicted felon being allowed to run and being measured against the most qualified presidential candidate in recent times certainly feels gendered. Well, it feels supremacist.
  • Samantha and Remoy point out that many other factors were certainly implicated in Americans’ decision to vote Trump, but gender cannot be ignored.
• What was  surprising about the PEW findings from the pre-election episode?
  • Right before the election, Juliana Horowitz from PEW Research Center came on the pod and shared Americans’ feelings on men and masculinity. Men’s progress and character traits in men were among the most surprising, particularly given the narratives promoted by the manosphere.
  • As Horowitz shared during that episode, which Samantha brought up again now, not blaming women for men’s lack of progress doesn’t mean that women’s progress is appreciated. This points to a patriarchal perspective prevailing among Americans.
  • Samantha sidebars about why men have made less progress than women in the past few decades. PEW Research Center had a study on that as well…
• Remoy places us within a larger international context. Trump wasn’t the only one elected as a result of populist efforts.
  • Faith in education has dropped drastically, and education is viewed as the establishment.
  • How was Trump able to paint himself as a man of the people even though he is a billionaire who rubs elbows with other billionaires? Remoy gives his take.
• If, as we discovered during our conversation with PEW Center’s Senior Associate Director of Research, Juliana Horowitz, Americans value women’s leadership and “feminine” traits being valuable to leadership, how did Donald Trump emerge as elected leader for this country yet again?
  • Remoy reflects back on his conservative background before he became liberal and how much masculinity is entrenched in American culture history.
  • Samantha points out that messaging around patriarchal leadership is heavily funded by nontraditional sources and funneled to nontraditional information and news sources. A win for the anti-establishment strategy.
  • The manosphere and its spaces also provide something that men have trouble getting elsewhere.
  • Remoy highlights the need for regulation on social media with a clear solution.
• How have evolving gender roles impacted the American public?
  • PEW’s research found that Americans don’t blame men’s lack of progress on women’s continued progress, but men are still behind.
  • Remoy brings up the biggest point of all, which is the economy. Many folks who vote conservative cite the economy as their main reason for doing so. This election was no different. 
    • This has impacted men in a real way, challenging the notion that they are providers. And some of their women spouses voted to ensure that their male partners could get better financially.
    • Samantha highlights the ways in which the economy has already been impacted by Trump’s win, but only a few have seen the wins.
• Talk to us! Did we cover all the points about the election? What would you have added? Our lines are open for any and all communications about masculinity, [email protected]; @maskulinitypod on Twitter and Instagram.

Thanks for listening

COMPANION PIECES:

• Making Sense of the Election - Our post election episode examining money in politics and how Americans get their news and information
• How American Politics REALLY Sees Men & MASKulinity - Our episode analyzing PEW Research Center’s latest report on men and masculinity with report author and Senior Associate Director of Research at PEW Research Center, Juliana Horowitz and Next Gen Men’s Equity Leaders’ Trevor Mayoh
• Don’t underestimate the Rogansphere. His mammoth ecosystem is Fox News for young people
• Pew Research Center ‘s study on Americans’ news sources
• MANY young people are getting their news from TikTok

Referenced on this episode:

• How Americans See Men and Masculinity - PEW Research Center report
• Men Think It's Harder for Them at Work Than 20 Years Ago
• Fewer young men are in college, especially at 4-year schools

This time last year, Keestin O’Dell of Frog Lake First Nations joined the pod to have a thoughtful conversation about resistance, warrior masculinity, and the importance of questioning dominant narratives about indigenous communities. It’s time to have this conversation again, so we’re bringing it back to keep real history out there. Here’s how it went down:

• We switch it up this week! Remoy has some stories to fill Samantha in on. They talk language traditions, how colonial/settler/imperialist institutions use language to marginalize indigenous communities, and how that translates to altering narratives about a painful past.
  • Remoy talks us through about how the co-woman led Indian of All Tribes organization took over Alcatraz for a year-and-a-half and gets real about the astronomical impact of the genocide of indigenous peoples.
  • He shares more female native activist voices like Shinanova who use social media voices to pass on their message of resistance.
• Keestin shares key history about Frog Lake First Nations and its legacy in Alberta, Canada—specifically the Frog Lake Massacre. If you listen hard enough, you can hear how history is finding a way to repeat itself now.
• He lets us in on how his and other indigenous communities have had to fight postcolonial legacy to reclaim their history and identity, including redefining the notion of “warrior” and what it means to provide.
• Keestin inspires us to break through our illusions of language and masculinity. He shares the evolution of his own experience with masculinity, how a community of men was pivotal, and how that impacts the work he does today.

COMPANION PIECES:

• The history behind The National Day of Mourning and how indigenous Americans continue to fight the lie of Thanksgiving. 
• Keestin’s TED talk on perceptions of indigenous manhood
• The indigenous occupation of Alcatraz

Referenced on this episode:

• 54th Annual National Day of Mourning Demonstration in Plymouth
• Dr. LaNada War Jack
• Richard Oakes
• Indian of All Tribes (IAT)
• ShinaNova

This week, Remoy and Samantha debrief the election. After having hope following the PEW findings from the last episode, they try to understand how the election turned out the way it did.

• The obvious has to be put out there: Kamala Harris’s loss has strong racist and sexist undertones.
• Given most Trump voters cited the economy as the reason why, Samantha talks through Joe Biden’s approach as well.
• Many factors contributed to the state of the economy, including—ahem—COVID, the effects of which we’re still feeling now.
  • What’s going on with inflation? Samantha gives us high-level notes on COVID-19 led to the worst inflation we’ve seen.
• Trump voters may not have known all this, because news sources have changed substantially in recent years.
  • Remoy takes us through the new news landscape.
  • YouTube and Facebook are heavy on Americans’ news rotation, many more Americans than you might think get their news from these sources.
  • Not to mention the manosphere speaking directly to men as guests like Donald Trump give them clout while connecting to their fanbase.
• How can so many Americans fall for these things? Education has been meddled with in so many states.
  • Samantha gives a crash course on the billionaire Koch brothers and their education goals.
  • She delves into the allies that have helped them get there and how they use government and money to undermine public education.
  • Did you know they are longtime associates of Betsy DeVos and her family? Samantha gets into their collaboration instituting the voucher system in states around the country.
  • The Koch have a particular vision for the world they want to see and meddling with American education is their pathway.
  • Trump has now started naming his cabinet, and back in 2016, many of his potential cabinet picks were from the Kochs’ network of donors.
• Remoy reminds us how men’s education has plateaued in the US, and how this helps disinform them.
  • The notion of school choice has been a conservative strategy to destabilize public education, reallocating funds to give parents accounts.
  • They end on a note of hope.
• Join Samantha and Remoy at the Next Gen Men Pathways event. They’ll be answering questions about MASKulinity and the election for Next Gen Men’s new initiative and reflecting on what’s to come. Sign up for FREE, and join them on November 21!

Thanks for listening!

Referenced on this episode:

• Pew Research Center ‘s study on Americans’ news sources
• MANY young people are getting their news from TikTok
• How Democrats are falling short on connecting with men
• Our podbro’s thoughts on Democrats connecting with men
• How the manosphere won the election
   

COMPANION PIECES:

• How American Politics REALLY Sees Men & MASKulinity
• Radicalization and TSwift
• Make America Great Again, How the dominant was left behind with Dr. Michael Kimmel
• Inside the new strain of conservatives, not MAGA or Qanon
• Gaslit Nation’s Reading Guide to stay informed

As the 2024 election heats up, it’s easy to assume that hyper-masculine, even toxic masculinity, messaging is resonating across America. But a new Pew Research report tells a different story. After digging in with report creator Juliana Horowitz and Next Gen Men’s Trevor Mayoh, Samantha uncovers some surprising truths.
 

Here’s where Samantha reveals the real story behind Americans’ views on masculinity. Remoy was surprised, to say the least…

• First Juliana opens up to how the “How Americans See Men and Masculinity” report came out of a more general curiosity, but as the election shifted into a more gendered race, the importance of the research became increasingly clear.
• Using the report as a jump off, Samantha runs a few questions by Remoy:
  • First: Samantha asked Remoy what he thought when he heard of the association between the American public and the terms: caring, open about their emotions, soft-spoken, or affectionate?
  • Second: She asked him how Americans felt about men pursuing non “traditional” norms: staying home to raise the kids, women paying for the date, men taking a woman’s last name in marriage?
  • Third: How do Americans feel about actions that depict Toxic Masculinity?
  • Fourth: Do Americans feel like there’s a backlash against men who are manly or masculine?
  • The answers? They’re not so cut and dry as you may think with a lot more parity across the aisle. Why?
    • Juliana suggests that generally speaking there’s much more nuance to Americans’ beliefs and thinking. Especially in contrast to the loud political noise we constantly see and hear.
    • Trevor makes a point that it’s the sport of American politics, the tribalism of how it’s waged, that unfortunately may disregard a lot of that nuance.
      • Trevor shares what he’s experienced with men in his work as a diversity, inclusion and violence prevention consultant. How he encounters a lot of men who are hurting in a variety of ways: work anxieties, stress, expectations to meet the highest standards of what it means to be husband or father. And in the midst of all that, how the larger culture hasn’t given men the tools to ask for help to process all these intense expectations.
      • Then he goes on to unpack how that can be exacerbated in highly masculine spaces– how men could actually possess a lot of that nuance Juliana shared in her report –but there’s a pack mentality in those intense social environments that doesn't allow men to easily share their discouragements.
• Remoy wonders if all of this is what can create a culture of “Aggrieved Entitlement.”
  • Does Remoy know what that really is? Nope. Luckily Samantha helps guide the way, defining what that experience is along with how mens’ perceptions of women’s ascent plays a role in building that entitled foundation.
  • Juliana brings some light to it all by giving a better view of what Americans perceive of the progress women have made in the last 20 years and how that may be affecting the aforementioned entitlement.
  • Trevor reveals how that entitlement, yes, has become a tool for American players like Trump, but is also a larger global culture. How it’s more of a larger populist appeal that exploits men's insecurities amidst deeply entrenched gender norms.
• Trevor leaves Samantha and Remoy with one last take away about how maybe the greatest misunderstanding of all these political games, is that if anything, it may provide community, friendship, or just a person to share a laugh with. A rare commodity for men especially as they age.
  • Samantha and Remoy really take this information in to gather a better understanding of how vulnerable men may be and how if this is the most vulnerable area for predation, how sad the American political environment may be.
• Samantha then breaks off on her own to ask Juliana more questions about the importance of the “How Americans See Men and Masculinity” report. Along the way pursuing a deeper understanding with Trevor at how to better wade through all these layers of these findings amidst the visible political situation in America.
• Finally, Samantha and Remoy discuss how to hold all this nuance alongside knowing we’re in a fractured American political system; especially when facing the obligation to participate when the cracks are so apparent. Together they land on multiple ideas that empower each other to have faith and still fight back as part of their own civic duty.
  
   

Referenced on this episode:

• Want to dive into the actual report from the Pew Research Center? Read “How Americans See Men and Masculinity” in all its surprising, well dissected glory.
• Who’s Trevor Mayoh? Learn more about his role as an Equity Leader with Next Gen Men.
• Okay but really… What is “Aggrieved Entitlement”? The Conversation shows a recent example of what that looks like in Canada.
• Who’s Samantha’s favorite Boston Celtic, Jaylen Brown? And why? Read more about how he came to open up about his mental health challenges as a male pro-athlete, especially overcoming an upbringing surrounded by what he calls “over-masculinity”.
• Justin Baldoni makes it his mission to model a public, vulnerable, honest conversation of what patriarchy really does to men.

Companion pieces:

• It's Time to Loosen the Grip on Reproductive Freedom with Heidi Sieck
• Make America Great Again, How the dominant was left behind with Dr. Michael Kimmel

This week, we’re joined by multihyphenate artist Stephanie Graham to delve into Pick Me culture. Remoy has no idea what that means, so Samantha walks him through what Pick Me culture is, the nuances in the ways women interact with each other when talking about relationships with men, and what that means for MASKulinity.

• Have you ever done anything out of character to be picked or chosen? This question is at the crux of this episode, and Remoy shares his own personal experience, which mostly includes success without shame.
  • Along the way, Samantha breaks down what a simp is, which according to Urban Dictionary, is the male version of being a Pick Me. 
  • The crew walks through how each term started out as a way to call folks out for bending their self-respect for desired love interests who don’t care for them but evolved into insults toward people doing anything nice or pleasing to the object of their affection.
  • Samantha traces back the origins of “woman who’s not like other women” to the “cool girl,” a compliment given to women who never required too much from their man and just went with the flow, drank beer, watched sports, while being hot and keeping a size 2.
    • Remoy gives all the reasons why his partner is a cool girl, and they’re just because she’s a cool person who does cool stuff. But the “cool girl” is a trope of a woman suppressing parts of herself so that she can appeal to a man by not taking up too much space. 
    • Remoy gives a great example from popular culture.
  • Samantha shared her own “cool girl” attempt as a 12-year-old girl trying to impress a boy.
    • Stephanie vulnerably shares seeking sneaker-swag validation from men, albeit platonically.
    • Is Samantha’s story an example of Pick Me behavior - What do you think?
  • At the crux of the Pick Me is her superiority to other women for her ability to be appealing to men, whereas the cool girl suppresses her needs and aligns her interests with her man for appeal. They overlap.
    • Samantha provides examples and Remoy picks up on the suggested requirement to be demure to be a real woman, and Stephanie picks up on the chastisement of women who aren’t putting domesticity at the top of their priority list.
• They get into Stephanie’s work exploring gender through art. 
  • Stephanie shares her experience photographing men for her Love You Bro series, celebrating friendships between Black men. The responses to her project had her questioning whether she was a Pick Me.
  • Remoy makes an important point about how patriarchy drives up these insecurities and conflicts among women.
• Samantha points out the rewards that women get when participating in Pick Me/Cool Girl culture.
  • Men enjoy being appealed to, and men’s interests being viewed as superior to women’s automatically legitimizes Cool Girls.
• It gets complicated. Folks calling out Pick Me behavior may just be performing a different type of sexism. Calling out women for their behavior and what they prefer is sometimes also folded into the Pick Me trope, when it’s really sexism.
  • Samantha calls out that the onus of dismantling patriarchy falls on men. Remoy and Stephanie cosign.
  • Remoy makes an important statement about how men can step in and stand for what’s right.
  • Stephanie shares small ways that men can intervene using their values rather than telling women what to do.

In our Five Questions segment, Stephanie shares what Pick Me culture can look like in her art and in real life.

• Stephanie illustrates the ways that Pick Me culture is rewarded in our culture.
  • Girls get the prize: the guy.
  • Women compete and win the prize, but it can backfire when they want to put their own needs first later in the relationship.
  • They get into the trad wife trend. Is this another example of Pick Me culture. Sort of. The trad wife trend has been blazing online but it’s a performance of gender. Women peddling the trad wife are businesswomen selling a lifestyle that they’re not actually living for profit.
• Stephanie lets us in on her project #NEWGLOBALMATRIARCHY. The performance and installation project explores friendships between women through the lens of goddesses. 
  • Why is there a supposed hierarchy between women in their friendships? There isn’t and this project explores that. It contradicts the trope of Pick Me culture pitting women against each other for an ultimate prize.
• Stephanie’s photography project Love You Bro explores male friendships. The closeness between men is seldom expressed, instead painting a picture of men as inherently violent.
  • She gets into the discomfort folks have seeing men being affectionate with one another.
  • Samantha wonders what the reception was from both the participants and the audience.
    • Stephanie shares the concerns men had doing the project, and the eventual glee and satisfaction of the participants.
• The hot seat is flipped this week! Remoy answers Stephanie’s question to the host. What was the turning point for Remoy that got him to question patriarchy?
  • Remoy shares his upbringing seeing women’s leadership. 
  • He witnessed abuse growing up, which led to insensitivity toward women on his part.
  • Remoy’s turning point shows that it’s possible for men to transform and be more thoughtful about patriarchy and its harms.

Referenced on this episode:

• Gone Girl: book monologue and movie monologue
• Examples of Pick Me culture
• Love You Bro
• #NEWGLOBALMATRIARCHY

COMPANION PIECES:

• The Marriage Episode 👰🏿‍♀️💒💍, with Dr. LaToya Council
• The Matriarchy Episode, with Izzy Chan
• Radicalization and TSwift, with Jeff Perera and Jonathon Reed

This week, we’re having a herstory moment! Professor and Chair of the Africana Studies Department at Wellesley College Dr. Kellie Carter Jackson joins the show this week to talk Black abolitionists and resistance. We get to know civil rights leader Mabel Williams, spouse and partner of Robert F. Williams, and how she and her husband mobilized Black folks to take up arms and defend themselves in the face of extreme racism in the sixties. 

• We start off with a moment for the cover of Professor Carter Jackson’s latest book We Refuse. It features Soldier of Love, not Sade’s chart topper, but the beautiful and poignant painting by Brooklyn-based artist Taha Clayton.
• Disclaimer: While we’re happy that gun violence has overall decreased in the United States, it continues to be troubling. We’re conscious of how intense gun debates can get and want to stress that this conversation explores how communities took up arms in self-defense against lethal racism. We are not advocating for general gun violence.
• Remoy introduces Mabel and Robert Williams via their infamous black and white Bonnie and Clyde photo.
• The Kissing Case in Monroe, NC is a turning point for the Williamses.
• Mabel knew how the presence of guns was enough to deter potential violence. And she was right. Violence severely deescalated.
• Carter Jackson stresses the importance of Mabel and Robert’s partnership because Robert tends to get all the credit for these efforts.
• Racism is not the only thing folks were fighting. Violent sexism must also be challenged and that calls for women’s leadership.

In our Five Questions segment, Professor Kellie Carter Jackson distills women’s anger and how they can use it as a driving force. 

• Our guest shares how anger is a big driving force for a lot of her work.
• Carter Jackson breaks down how she arrived at the title of her forthcoming book, We Refuse.
• bell hooks has a famous quote about Black men and white women being one stage away from the ultimate social power: white men’s power.
• We close out with a great note on how to get to liberation. Dr. Carter Jackson stresses how binaries and individualism pigeon-hole us away from collective freedom. She envisions how to move past that.

Thanks for listening!

Referenced on this episode:

• Audre Lorde's speech about women's anger being useful
• bell hooks’s quote about Black men and white women each being one degree away from the highest rank of social power from her book Feminist Theory: From Margin to Center
• Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. was a pacifist in the street but a gun owner behind closed doors.
• Dr. Carter Jackson’s books, We Refuse and the award-winning Force and Freedom: Black Abolitionists and the Politics of Violence cover a wide history of Black resistance and women’s roles
• F*** Your Slave Laws - RGP1-produced Not Past It episode featuring Dr. Carter Jackson

COMPANION PIECES:

• The Marriage Episode 👰🏿‍♀️💒💍, with Dr. LaToya Council 

It’s been a great summer! But now it’s fall and your tween and teen sons, nephews, brothers, and cousins are back in school. Teen anxiety is on the rise with pre-teen boys feeling that stress. But there is recourse! Multihyphenate mental health advocate Kyle Mitchell joins us this week and shares his wisdom and experience with helping teenagers manage social anxiety. 

• Remoy shares his experience with tween social anxiety after changing schools
  •  Kyle had a very similar experience and reflects back on dealing with anxiety as a tween. 
  • Turns out this experience is common among teen boys. They wanted to but had a hard time making friends and spent their time trying to avoid being noticed and judged.
• Remoy puts on his science teacher cap and lets us in on where this anxiety comes from.
  • He walks us through the brain functions and glands that cause our physical and mental development.
    • Our bodies develop faster than our mind, and we have to play catch-up to manage it all… How does that impact boys trying to survive new social situations?
    • The prefrontal cortex is responsible for a lot of our mental processes, and yet, most of us know so little about it. 
  • Even if their body is physically mature, hormonal teenagers will not have a fully developed brain for another ten years. It all seems so unfair…
    • Hormones help us manage stress but are also responsible for puberty, a highly stressful time in our lives.
    • Kyle reminds us that anxiety is useful! The goal isn’t to get rid of it but to manage it.
• Teenagers develop strategies for survival in social situations that could make them feel alone.
  • Kyle shares some truths and tips about how to manage that, particularly for boys, who by that time, have already learned to repress emotional expression.
    • He stresses the importance of boys developing a friend group that they can confide in and be vulnerable with.
    • Dealing with self-esteem and confidence issues is universal even if it doesn’t feel like it and knowing that can help boys overcome the fear of sharing themselves more openly.
    • How to teach boys to be vulnerable? Kyle reframes what strength actually can look like: sharing is more than caring; it’s actually a show of strength.

How have you dealt with social anxiety over the years? What would you tell your teenage self about dealing with self-doubt and lack of confidence? We’ll say it again: sharing is caring! Share your stories and takeaways and we’ll share them with our online community!

• In our deep dive, Kyle shares his own story dealing with anxiety and how this led him to the work he does helping teens and tweens deal with theirs.
• He walks us through the strategies he used to help him manage anxiety as a young man. 
  • Self-love was the missing piece for Kyle and is for a lot of boys. He shares his feelings of self-hate and what led him to a turning point.
  • Kyle is a father now and sees how his own kids deal with self-love and acceptance.
• Kyle shares his three-step process for dealing with social anxiety (37:39)
  • Exposure therapy opened a whole new world for Kyle and got him thirsting for stretching his comfort zone.
  • Rewards systems are hugely helpful. Boys
• While self-love is the name of the game, that term can be a turnoff to boys because it’s associated with femininity.
  • Kyle exposes how using the right language to draw boys into their healing. 
• What was the turning point for Kyle, where he realized that anxiety wasn’t running his life anymore?
• Kyle shares how working uncomfortability into his life and his family’s life has changed everything. 
  • He loves looking back on his journey going from being an anxious kid to being a public speaker helping kids with anxiety. 
  • Kyle shares why his work is so important and the gratification seeing people move past their fears brings him.
• Kyle plans to visit schools with The DUDE Project this fall to help more kids deal with anxiety. Samantha had a moment of gratitude.
• Like we said above, teen anxiety is on the rise in the US. Please share this conversation with anyone who might benefit from it and check out mental health resources on our website. 

Thanks for listening!