In this episode on Mastering Modern Selling, Brandon Lee and Carson Heady welcome Stephen Oommen, former sales leader at Microsoft and author-in-progress of The Chameleon Effect. 

The discussion dives into Stephen’s innovative approach to building authentic connections in sales, the importance of adaptability, and the emotional journey behind his philosophies.

• The Concept of the Chameleon Effect

Stephen explained The Chameleon Effect as the ability to adapt and connect with anyone. 

It’s not about manipulation but understanding and empathizing with people’s lived experiences. 

This adaptability stems from his diverse cultural experiences and challenges, making it a cornerstone for building meaningful relationships in sales.

• Intention Matters More Than Technique

While many focus on sales techniques, Stephen emphasized the importance of intention behind actions. 

Techniques without authentic intention can come off as disingenuous or "cringy." 

Successful salesmanship comes from combining intention with the right tactics.

• Transforming Hurt into Healing

Sharing deeply personal anecdotes, Stephen discussed how childhood adversities and racism shaped his ability to empathize and connect with others. 

He reframed "hurt people hurt people" into "hurt people heal people," using his experiences to bridge gaps with others.

• Why Sales is About More Than Transactions

Stephen challenged the cold, transactional approach to sales. 

He believes that investing time to network, create warm connections, and understand prospects’ personal and professional goals yields better long-term results.

• Intention + Tactic = Trust

Stephen outlined how specific behaviors, like mirroring someone’s tone or using familiar language, can create instant rapport. 

However, these tactics only work when backed by a genuine desire to connect. 

For example, he shared a story of calling male colleagues “brother,” which helped establish camaraderie, but only because it was rooted in his authentic experiences and respect.

This episode underscores that modern selling isn’t about tactics alone—it’s about authenticity, adaptability, and emotional intelligence.

Stephen Oommen’s Chameleon Effect teaches us to embrace differences, connect meaningfully, and make sales a noble profession centered on trust and relationships.

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 In this episode, Brandon Lee, and Carson Heady are joined by Andy Paul, a renowned sales strategist and the author of Sell Without Selling Out.

With decades of experience across tech and startup sales, Andy shares actionable insights on why the sales industry needs to move away from outdated approaches and focus on buyer-centric practices.

The False Promise of Sales Tools:

• Andy discusses the misplaced focus on sales tools that prioritize quantity over meaningful engagement.
• He highlights how this approach has led to declining win rates across industries, where many companies accept mediocrity instead of striving for consistent success.

Shifting the Sales Narrative:

• Successful selling isn’t about pitching, pushing, or persuading—it’s about helping buyers make decisions that address their needs and challenges.
• Andy urges sellers to move beyond “discovery calls” and instead help buyers define their goals, identify opportunities, and envision results.

The Four Pillars of Buyer Progress:

• Sellers should focus on ensuring every interaction helps the buyer move forward. Andy outlines four questions to keep sellers on track:
  • What does the buyer need from us now?
  • How will we provide this help?
  • How does this assistance address their concerns?
  • What steps will they take next as a result?

Fostering a Culture of Success:

• Andy criticizes the normalization of low win rates in many sales cultures, calling it a “culture of losing.”
• He stresses the importance of instilling confidence in sellers to aim higher, make smarter choices, and focus on winning more often than losing.

Building Authentic Connections Online:

• Andy emphasizes the importance of sellers and leaders building trust through genuine, personalized content.
• Buyers want to engage with professionals who demonstrate expertise and provide insights before a sales meeting even begins.

Andy Paul’s thought-provoking perspective on modern sales challenges the status quo, encouraging sellers to focus on their customers’ success rather than simply pushing products. 

By fostering genuine relationships and focusing on progress-driven interactions, sales teams can elevate their effectiveness and create meaningful outcomes for buyers. 

Don't miss out—your next big idea could be just one episode away!

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In this episode of Mastering Modern Selling, Don Barden, a seasoned sales expert and academic, delves into the evolving sales landscape. 

Barden emphasizes a critical shift from a focus on results to one centered on relevance. 

In today’s competitive market, adapting to these changes is key to staying ahead, those who don’t risk becoming obsolete.

• The Changing Sales Landscape

As consumers face more choices than ever, the sales game has changed. 

Buyers can easily find multiple great options for nearly any product or service, making it harder for salespeople to stand out with just product features or competitive pricing.

• From Results to Relevance

Barden explains that the traditional focus on sales numbers is being replaced by relevance. 

With many options available, standing out means demonstrating true value and understanding customer needs. 

This shift requires sales professionals to move beyond just pitching products and instead become partners in the client’s success.

• Understanding the Buyer: The Social Buyer Pyramid

Barden introduces the "Social Buyer Pyramid," which outlines how buying decisions are influenced by the buyer’s role:

• • Price Buyers: Focus on affordability and are at the base of the pyramid.
  • Perception Buyers: Middle managers who prioritize brand reputation to maintain a positive image.
  • ROI Buyers: C-Suite executives focused on return on investment (ROI) and long-term value.
•  "Here Come the Girls" – The Rise of Women Leaders 

In his book, Barden discusses the growing influence of women in leadership, predicting that by 2028, women will dominate global leadership. 

He emphasizes that women leaders foster more engaged and productive environments by expressing:

• Sympathy and Empathy: Concern for both the problem and the individuals.
• Empowerment: Encouraging team members to take ownership of problem-solving.

• A Looming "Extinction Event" for Outdated Sales Practices

Barden warns that businesses clinging to outdated sales tactics will struggle. To succeed, organizations must:

• Embrace relevance by understanding customer needs.
• Build genuine relationships.
• Focus on delivering true value instead of just sales targets.

• Diversity vs. Inclusion

While diversity is important, Barden stresses that inclusion drives growth. Inclusive environments foster collaboration and create greater opportunities, making them essential for success.


Barden encourages listeners to embrace change, adapt to market dynamics, and prioritize relevance and inclusion in their sales strategies. 

By focusing on customer value and building authentic relationships, sales professionals and organizations will thrive in the evolving market.

Don't miss out—your next big idea could be just one episode away!

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In this episode of Mastering Modern Selling, hosts Tom Burton and Carson V. Heady are joined by Denise Natali to explore how modern sales teams can leverage data to drive superior results. 

With the abundance of data available today, it's not enough to simply collect it—sales leaders and reps must learn to harness it effectively. 

• The Power of Data in Sales

Denise stresses that in today’s competitive sales landscape, using data isn’t optional—it’s essential. 

Sales professionals must learn how to interpret data to uncover insights that drive smarter decisions and improve sales outcomes.

• Adopt a "Moneyball" Approach

Drawing inspiration from the book Moneyball, Denise explains how data can be used to make more precise decisions in sales, just like baseball teams use analytics to pick players. 

By focusing on the right metrics, sales teams can identify high-value prospects and increase conversions.

• Sales Tools are Evolving

As technology evolves, so do the tools available to salespeople. 

Denise highlights how these tools have become more accessible and user-friendly, making it easier for sales teams to gather, analyze, and act on data, thus improving their decision-making in real time.

• Data-Driven Coaching for Sales Teams

It’s not just about tracking data; it’s about using it for development. 

Sales leaders should use data to guide their coaching efforts, offering personalized insights to each team member. 

This data-backed coaching helps improve performance across the board.

• Continuous Evolution is Key

The sales landscape is constantly changing, and staying ahead means evolving with it. 

Denise encourages sales teams to continually adapt to the tools and data available, ensuring they remain competitive and capable of responding to market shifts.

This episode reinforces the importance of adopting a data-driven mindset in modern sales. 

By embracing data, leveraging the right tools, and continuously evolving, sales teams can unlock new opportunities and drive success.

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In this episode of Mastering Modern Selling, Nabil Aitoumezian and the hosts dive into the importance of authenticity in the sales process and how live shows can help create impactful, genuine connections with audiences. 

Whether you’re trying to scale your outreach or create engaging content, the conversation offers key strategies for success.

• Leverage Live Shows for Authentic Content

Nabil emphasizes the power of live shows to create genuine, human-driven content. 

Live interactions can't be replicated by AI, and they offer real-time opportunities to connect with your audience in an authentic way.

• Create Multi-Purpose Content from Live Interactions

A key strategy shared by Carson and Brandon is to turn live shows into valuable content. 

From a single 45-minute live show, you can extract multiple pieces of content for outreach, social media posts, newsletters, and blog articles. 

This efficiency makes live shows a great tool for scaling marketing efforts.

• The Role of AI in Content Repurposing

While AI can help in repurposing live content (e.g., transcripts for blog posts), Nabil points out that the core value comes from the human element. 

Authentic content cannot be faked, and it’s this humanity that resonates with audiences.

• Sales Is About Building Relationships, Not Just Transactions

Throughout the episode, the hosts emphasize that modern sales is about relationship-building. 

It’s no longer just about closing deals, but about creating lasting connections through meaningful, human conversations.

• Consistency in Content Creation Leads to Sales Success

Nabil and the team discuss the importance of being consistent in your content creation efforts. 

Whether it’s live shows or social media engagement, showing up regularly and providing valuable insights builds trust and fosters engagement, ultimately leading to more sales.

The episode serves as a reminder that in today’s world, sales success doesn’t just come from pushing products – it comes from being consistent, human, and building genuine relationships. 

Don't miss out—your next big idea could be just one episode away!

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In this episode of Mastering Modern Selling, Amy Franko, author of The Modern Seller and a seasoned sales strategist, joins the conversation to discuss how to adapt and excel in the evolving sales landscape. 

From strategy creation to the integration of sales and marketing, Amy shares actionable insights for professionals aiming to thrive in today’s buyer-centric world. 

• Modern Seller Attributes:

Sales professionals must provide exceptional value that intertwines them with the product or service they represent.

They should act as trusted advisors, helping clients gain a competitive edge and improve their businesses.

Confidence in asking tough questions and being consultative is essential to building trust and long-term relationships.

• Importance of a Defined Sales Strategy:

Many organizations lack a formalized sales strategy, leading to missed opportunities for alignment and growth.

Effective strategies focus on a "vital few" priorities rather than attempting too many initiatives at once.

Implementation is crucial—accountability structures and leadership ownership are needed to ensure success.

• Building Trust Before the First Conversation:

Visibility and credibility are key. Engage in professional networks like LinkedIn and industry events to position yourself as a thought leader.

Content creation, such as articles and videos, can help establish trust before direct interactions.

Reframe outreach as earning conversations rather than simply scheduling them.

• The Role of Sales and Marketing Alignment:

Sales and marketing integration starts at the leadership level, with the acknowledgment that both functions contribute to revenue generation.

Leveraging CRM tools and data tracking can streamline collaboration and improve lead management.

Regular communication and shared KPIs foster alignment and mutual accountability.

• Navigating Post-Pandemic Challenges:

Adjusting strategies to account for distorted data from the COVID-19 era is vital for accurate forecasting.

Forward-thinking leaders embrace uncertainty by setting adaptable goals while maintaining a clear vision for the future.

 Amy Franko’s approach to modern selling emphasizes value, adaptability, and the integration of key business functions. 

Whether you’re a sales leader or an individual contributor, her insights on strategy, trust-building, and collaboration offer a roadmap to success in today’s dynamic environment. 

Don't miss out—your next big idea could be just one episode away!

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In our latest episode of Mastering Modern Selling, Brandon, Carson, and Tom welcome the brilliant Liz Heiman. With deep roots in sales, thanks to her father’s seminal book Strategic Selling, Liz brings invaluable insights on how to transform sales operations. 

Here’s a breakdown of her expert advice on building robust sales systems that drive sustainable growth.

• Sales Strategy Over Process: 

Liz emphasizes that most companies mistakenly start with sales processes without a clear strategy. 

For an effective sales operating system, it’s crucial to first define your business strategy. Understand your goals, target audience, and market positioning. 

Without a well-defined strategy, any process you put in place is just guesswork.

• Lead Generation & Pipeline Clarity: 

A successful sales system combines marketing and sales efforts to generate quality leads. 

Liz highlights that organizations need to understand where their leads are coming from (inbound, cold calls, trade shows, etc.) and have a clear plan for lead generation. 

It’s not just about setting revenue targets but knowing how many leads, proposals, and conversations are required to hit those numbers.

• Sales Management as a Support Function: 

Effective sales management isn't about controlling salespeople but rather supporting them. 

Liz points out that management often falls into the trap of funnel reviews that lack substance. 

Instead, managers should focus on providing clear meeting agendas, timelines, and coaching sessions tailored to individual needs. This creates a supportive environment that helps salespeople thrive.

• Sales Compensation and Alignment: 

Misalignment between sales strategies and compensation structures can lead to salespeople prioritizing short-term wins over long-term goals. 

Liz stresses the importance of incentivizing behaviors that align with company objectives. 

If your salespeople are not following the strategy, it's often due to a lack of clear expectations and reinforcement.

• Leveraging Technology Wisely: 

While technology can enhance efficiency, Liz warns against overwhelming sales teams with multiple tools that create chaos. 

The goal is to streamline processes, making it easier for salespeople to focus on selling rather than managing tools. 

Implement technology that truly supports the sales journey and integrates seamlessly into daily workflows.

Liz Heiman’s insights are a masterclass in designing sales systems that are strategic, scalable, and supportive. By focusing on strategy first, aligning compensation, and using technology judiciously, companies can build a sales ecosystem that drives consistent growth.

Don't miss out—your next big idea could be just one episode away!

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In this episode of Mastering Modern Selling, hosts Brandon Lee and Carson V. Heady welcome Allan Langer, founder of the Seven Secret Sales Academy, to dive deep into the world of effective and authentic sales strategies. 

With a career spanning over 27 years, Allan shares his transformative journey in sales, highlighting how he went from a top rep at Andersen Windows to a bestselling author and sales consultant. 

This episode is packed with insights on how to break away from the traditional "salesperson" mold to connect authentically with clients. Here are five essential takeaways:

• Become the “Anti-Salesperson”: 

Allan emphasizes that true sales success comes from breaking the mold of what people expect a salesperson to be. 

Rather than high-pressure tactics, embrace a consultative approach. By being genuinely curious and focused on the customer’s needs, sales reps can build trust and stand out from the competition.

• Master the Art of Body Language: 

Allan dives into the importance of reading and understanding body language, especially in virtual environments. 

Showing your hands on camera and avoiding glances away from the screen can build subconscious trust. Recognizing cues like a “real smile” versus a “polite smile” can reveal valuable insights into customer receptiveness.

• Open-Ended Questions Are Key: 

Allan stresses the power of open-ended questions to uncover the real problems customers face. 

By moving beyond closed-ended questions and encouraging clients to open up, sales reps can discover the deeper emotional drivers behind purchases. 

This makes it easier to move from a surface-level conversation to a meaningful sale.

• Bring Energy, but Stay Genuine: 

It’s not just about showing up with energy; it’s about being genuine and fully present in every interaction. 

Allan warns against treating any sales call as “just another meeting.” Instead, make every client feel like they’re the only focus of your day to foster deeper, more impactful connections.

• Leverage the Psychology of Ownership: 

Encourage clients to visualize what it would feel like to own and benefit from the product or service. 

Rather than stating benefits, use imagination-driven language—such as “Imagine how this will improve…”—to make the solution feel tangible and relatable. 

This approach taps into customers' emotions and helps cement the value of the offer.

In wrapping up, Allan’s advice provides a blueprint for transforming the sales approach by putting empathy, authenticity, and psychology at the forefront. 

Don't miss out—your next big idea could be just one episode away!

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In this compelling episode of Mastering Modern Selling, Dirk Beveridge, founder of Unleashed WB and Executive Producer of We Supply America, shares invaluable insights into purpose-driven leadership, innovation in sales, and the noble calling of the distribution industry. 

He discusses how sales have evolved from traditional methods to a more consultative, people-first approach. 

• Moving Beyond Transactional Sales

Dirk emphasizes that most sales strategies are outdated, focused on commercial visits and price competition. 

He advocates for a shift towards consultative selling, where sales professionals act as trusted advisors. 

This means deeply understanding the customer's business, proactively solving problems, and delivering innovative solutions that the client didn't know they needed.

• Empathy, Expertise, and Problem-Solving

To become a trusted resource, salespeople must embody three core attributes: empathy, expertise, and problem-solving. 

Empathy involves a genuine desire to help customers succeed, expertise ensures that relevant solutions are offered, and problem-solving keeps sales dynamic, meeting ever-evolving client challenges.

• The Noble Calling of Distribution

Dirk highlights the overlooked yet essential role of distributors in the economy.

His project, We Supply America, focuses on championing the 6 million workers in this field, emphasizing that businesses in distribution must recognize their critical impact.
 
He insists that businesses can only thrive if they appreciate and elevate the humans behind their success.

• Authenticity in Leadership

Sales managers are often caught between company metrics and their authentic selves. 

Dirk challenges leaders to push back against detrimental sales cultures, advocating for authenticity. 

He underscores that coaching, understanding team dynamics, and valuing each member as a strength, not an asset, are crucial for sustainable success.

• People Are Your Greatest Strength, Not Assets

Dirk rejects the outdated notion of viewing people as assets, which depreciate. Instead, he sees employees as a company’s greatest strength, emphasizing personal and professional development as key to business growth. 

Empowering employees and fostering a human-centric culture will yield long-term profitability and innovation.

Dirk's approach underscores that innovation, and humanity must coexist in modern sales. 

By focusing on people and problem-solving rather than products and processes, sales organizations can stay relevant and impactful. 

This episode is a must-listen for anyone looking to redefine their sales strategy in today’s evolving market.

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In today's episode of Mastering Modern Selling, Tom Burton and Brandon Lee explore a vital topic: how to drive revenue by cultivating a strong professional reputation. 

This is more than just being seen—it's about being trusted, instilling confidence, and demonstrating competence in the marketplace. 

Whether you're engaging prospects or working to deepen customer relationships, your reputation is a powerful driver of business success.

• Trust is Built on Consistency and Proximity: 

Being consistently present, whether through social platforms like LinkedIn or in person, fosters trust. 

It's not enough to show up sporadically—successful sellers stay visible, giving their network reasons to trust them over time.

• Confidence Comes from Consistent Value: 

Your audience must not only see you but also find value in what you offer. 

Confidence is built when you consistently share meaningful insights, showing deep expertise and an understanding of their needs.

• Competence is Demonstrated Through Expertise: 

Sharing high-quality content and thought leadership can position you as a go-to expert in your field. 

As Tom mentioned, it’s about proving that you know what you’re talking about—whether through your own content or thoughtful commentary on others' posts.

• Engagement at Scale is Essential: 

Digital platforms like LinkedIn provide unparalleled opportunities for scale. 

By interacting with a broader audience regularly, you increase your reach and build familiarity, ensuring more prospects see you as a trusted, competent figure in the industry.

• Reputation Precedes Success in Cold Outreach: 

Your outreach efforts—whether cold emails or calls—are far more effective when you’ve established familiarity and trust through your reputation. 

Without it, you risk being ignored amidst the noise of today’s competitive market.

Reputation is not just a nice-to-have in modern selling—it’s a must-have. 

By consistently appearing, adding value, and demonstrating expertise, you build a powerful foundation that drives business. 

Don’t leave your success to chance; invest in building your reputation to win trust and close more deals.

Don't miss out—your next big idea could be just one episode away!

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