There’s a story Matt’s been trying to tell on If You’re Listening almost since day one. It’s about the agriculture, soil and water of Ukraine, and he thinks it’s fascinating. Over the years he's tried to write it into episode after episode, only for it to be cut out by four separate producers.

Today, Matt attempts to convince Supervising Producer Kara Jensen-Mackinnon (and hopefully you, too) on his obsession with the jet-black soil that’s altered the course of wars from WWII to Russia’s invasion of Ukraine. 

Maps referenced in the episode:

• Map of chernozem distribution
• Map of European waterways

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