Messy Social Work

Rich and Tim are joined by Andrew Turnell to reflect on 2025.

Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/

Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: https://basw.co.uk/social-work-child-protection-professional-practice-programme

Rich Devine's blog: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/

Tim Fisher LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/timfisher101/

In this episode of The Messy Social Work Podcast, we sit down with Professor Donald Forrester, researcher and social worker. 

 We talk about why he thinks social workers are a bit like Nanny McPhee, why social work isn’t really about “helping,” and why conflict sits at the heart of the work we do. Donald shares the stories behind some of his most memorable anecdotes—from the baseball bat incident to the £20 haircut—and what they taught him about dignity, power, and human connection.

 We dig into whether there’s space for love in social work, how rights and relationships can coexist, and the traps practitioners fall into when we find ourselves telling parents what to do instead of listening. As a foster carer, Donald also reflects on what really makes a good social worker, what we get wrong about outcomes, and why change is so hard—and so hopeful.

 Plus, we finish with 10 quick-fire questions, where Donald reveals everything from the books that shaped him to his favourite motivational interviewing technique.

Check out the Enlightened Social Worker here and more about Donald here 

Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/

Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: https://basw.co.uk/social-work-child-protection-professional-practice-programme

Rich Devine's blog: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/

Tim Fisher LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/timfisher101/

Rich and Tim sit down with Charlotte Clark, a practising frontline child protection social worker, to explore what it means to build trust in contexts where distrust runs deep. From navigating statutory power dynamics to managing conflict under intense pressure, Charlotte shares insights from her early career journey, reporting from the frontline and reflects on the relational skills that matter most. 

Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/

Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: https://basw.co.uk/social-work-child-protection-professional-practice-programme

Rich Devine's blog: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/

Tim Fisher LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/timfisher101/

Rich Devine LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/richard-devine-181763177/

Full research and report found here

https://kinship.org.uk/our-work-and-impact/research/raised-by-relatives/

Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/

Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: https://basw.co.uk/social-work-child-protection-professional-practice-programme

Rich Devine's blog: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/

Tim Fisher LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/timfisher101/

Rich Devine LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/richard-devine-181763177/

This week on Messy Social Work, Rich and Tim take a deep dive into Darren McGarvey’s The Trauma Industrial Complex — a book that pulls no punches about how society packages, sells, and performs trauma.

 We explore McGarvey’s core argument that trauma has become a kind of cultural currency, often stripped of nuance and turned into content. We talk about the emotional labour placed on lived-experience workers, the myths of the “hero’s journey,” and the three layers of victimhood: victimhood, victim mentality and the victim complex.

 We also reflect on McGarvey’s honesty about his own narrative, including the four fundamental flaws he uncovered in his story and what this means for real recovery.

 If you work in social care, mental health, youth work, or community settings — or you’ve ever felt the tension between compassion, truth and accountability — this episode will stay with you.

You can purchase the Trauma Industrial Complex here

Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/

Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: https://basw.co.uk/social-work-child-protection-professional-practice-programme

Rich Devine's blog: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/

Tim Fisher LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/timfisher101/

Rich Devine LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/richard-devine-181763177/

In this Connecting Research episode, we speak to a lecturer and researcher at University College London, Dr Patrizia Pezzoli, about an article she co-authored, titled: Lived-experience perspectives on the psychological factors linking childhood maltreatment to later intimate partner violence victimization. 

See paper here which is available OPEN ACCESS. 

Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/

Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: https://basw.co.uk/social-work-child-protection-professional-practice-programme

Rich Devine's blog: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/

Tim Fisher LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/timfisher101/

Rich Devine LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/richard-devine-181763177/

In this episode, we have a returning guest: social worker and team manager Toni Mayo. 

Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: https://basw.co.uk/social-work-child-protection-professional-practice-programme

Rich Devine's blog: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/

Tim Fisher LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/timfisher101/

Rich Devine LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/richard-devine-181763177/

In this episode, we explore the tension between the fast-paced, task-driven nature of social work and the deeper need for presence, reflection, and meaning. 

Rhian Taylor shares insights from her recent blog on why it’s so hard for practitioners to stop—and how doing so can radically improve our wellbeing and the quality of our practice.

We talk about:

• The systemic pressures that reward constant “doing”
• The emotional and professional cost of never stopping
• How rest, reflection, and inner awareness can reconnect us with our values and vocation
• Practical ways social workers can integrate “being” into their everyday work

Rhian’s blog: Integrating doing and being in health and social care:  Why we find it so hard to stop and how it could radically help us

Retreat: 

Integrating Doing and Being | Othona West Dorset 

https://www.othonawestdorset.org.uk/

Rhian Taylor e-mail: [email protected]

Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/

https://www.techne.ac.uk/research-and-education/departments-and-schools/law-and-criminology/research/our-projects-and-research-impact/context-counts-improving-the-analysis-of-socio-economic-context-and-intersectionality-in-local-child-safeguarding-practice-reviews/

Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: https://basw.co.uk/social-work-child-protection-professional-practice-programme

Rich Devine's blog: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/

Tim Fisher LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/timfisher101/

Rich Devine LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/richard-devine-181763177/