MetaPod

“In Machines We Trust is a podcast about the automation of everything.”

The automation of everything sounds impossibly extensive, but automation is everywhere.

The artificial intelligence (AI) that drives automation is increasingly part of how individuals live and work, do business, spend leisure time, and consume news and entertainment. AI is also behind systems that process and make decisions about large amounts of data.

Decision-making technology enables the automation of processes that would otherwise be handled less efficiently by humans. Such systems dictate dynamic pricing online or “read” and interpret job applications before they even reach the eyes of a human.

“I think a lot of the stuff that we talk about on the show surprises even us,” says Jennifer Strong, host of In Machines We Trust.

“We start by saying, ‘hmmm, I wonder how this is being used in retail?’ or ‘I wonder how this is being used in HR?’ You’d be surprised by how many different ways things have changed and we’re not really aware that things are changing.”

In this episode of MetaPod, we talk to Jennifer Strong about artificial intelligence and its application in the activities of daily life. We hear Jennifer’s observations on how AI-driven processes work or don’t work. We also discover the unintended outcomes of decision-making technology and the potential consequences for individuals, institutions and society at large.

About Jennifer Strong

Jennifer Strong is the editorial director of audio and live journalism for MIT Technology Review. She’s the host and executive producer of In Machines We Trust, a podcast about artificial intelligence. She’s also the executive producer of The Extortion Economy, a podcast about the ransomware epidemic produced in collaboration with ProPublica.

In Machines We Trust has appeared on podcast charts in more than 70 countries. The show has won two Front Page Awards for investigative audio. It was a finalist for the 2021 Webby for “Best Tech Podcast” and an Ambie, the podcast industry’s award for excellence in audio. Strong previously led long-form audio for The Wall Street Journal, where she created and hosted The Future of Everything podcast—winner of the 2019 Webby for “Best Tech Podcast,” the New York Press Club Award for “Best Podcast,” and an iHeartRadio Podcast Awards finalist.

Jennifer pivoted to podcasting after a decade of reporting and producing for public and commercial radio networks.

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Tape Notes is a “podcast about the art and craft of music production.”

What makes a music producer “good”? What does it mean when critics deem a song or album “overproduced”? And does any of this matter if long-play albums are on the demise?

“What’s interesting is how interested in the album people still are,” says John Kennedy, host of Tape Notes, our guest on MetaPod this week. “It’s not just older artists, but new artists as well.”

Aside from hosting Tape Notes, John Kennedy is a radio presenter on Radio X in the UK. His radio programme, X-Posure, features new bands and music. John’s life-long love for discovering new music perfectly positions him for these roles, as you’ll hear when he explains the origins of the Tape Notes podcast.

“I think the idea of the album is still there even for young artists who are maybe 20 years of age,” said Kennedy. “They still feel as if they want to write and record an album at some point. That’s still on the list of things that they want to try and do as an artist. It’s a stage to get to and to go through.”

In this episode of MetaPod, we talk to John Kennedy about the collaborative dynamics between musicians and producers. Based on what he has learned, John tells us what he thinks constitutes a “good” producer and why a song or album might be deemed “overproduced”.

He shines a light on the role of engineers in the production process too. And because music comes from the “inner sanctum,” we talk to John about what some of the more personal issues are for musicians currently.

Finally, Wendy and Kevin subject John to a quick-fire round of questions to discover his favourite albums, producers, gigs, and new bands.

Show notes

• Radio X presents: A Conversation with Johnny Marr
• Chartreuse
• In A Silent Way by Miles Davis
• X-Posure with John Kennedy

About John Kennedy

John Kennedy is a music industry legend responsible for breaking new music on his Radio X show (formerly XFM) for over 20 years. In 2008 John first compered the Quarry stage at In The Woods and has been a loyal friend and supporter of the festival ever since.

With his encyclopedic knowledge of bands, insatiable appetite for music and thousands of interviews under his belt, John is the perfect host to explore the captivating world of music production on Tape Notes.

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"The story of David Koresh: the prophet whose cult in Waco, Texas preached an apocalypse — and the 30 Britons taken in by his message.”

End Of Days tells the story of the British victims of the deadly standoff between the US government and David Koresh in Waco, Texas in 1993.

Published by the BBC in 2018, journalists Ciaran Tracey and Chris Warburton shine light on untold stories and under-appreciated details of events that lured a number of British citizens to leave the UK to join Koresh in the USA.

In this episode of MetaPod, we hear Chris and Ciaran recount their investigation and storytelling, work that took place 25 years after the tragic event. They reflect on what it was like to consider the event, and the big (political) questions that arose from it, with the advantage of age.

They also discuss the challenges of exploring the belief system of the Branch Davidians. How do you understand the religious justifications for a way of life that most people struggle to accept as normal?

You might be surprised to learn that heavy metal played a role in generating the idea for the podcast. While Chris and Ciaran rightly share their pride in a project that managed to unearth stories from a site that no longer exists, you'll also discover that the story "nearly couldn't have been brilliant".


Show notes:

• Picture gallery for End Of Days
• Waco: Madman or Messiah (Channel 4 documentary)
• Profile of David Koresh (via Biography.com)
• The Deaths Of 76 Branch Davidians Could’ve Been Avoided – So Why Didn’t Anyone Care? (via The Conversation)
• Janet Reno recounts darkest days as US attorney general (PBS News Hour)

About Ciaran Tracey

Ciaran Tracey is an award-winning creator and executive producer of flagship BBC podcasts. Ciaran created the groundbreaking End Of Days, – the story of the British victims of Waco. It earned a British Podcast Award and has been bought for TV development. His next podcast series followed cricketer Kevin Pietersen on location through the South African bush in his struggle to save rhinos from illegal poaching in Beast Of Man. In 2020 Ciaran created a first-of-a-kind dual-format factual + drama series Ecstasy: The Battle Of Rave, working directly with leading BAFTA-winning screenwriter Danny Brocklehurst (Shameless, The Stranger) to acclaimed reviews and 1.5 million downloads. In 2020 he was in the leadership team for the tough Sounds podcast Gangster, charting the life and death of Paul Massy, one of the year’s best performing Sounds titles. He established Big City Nights in 2021 to create premium podcast box sets.

About Chris Warburton

Chris Warburton is a presenter on BBC Radio 5 Live. He has also worked on the podcasts End Of Days and Beyond A Reasonable Doubt?

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"Sodajerker is a songwriting team from Liverpool, founded by Simon Barber and Brian O’Connor. The podcast Sodajerker On Songwriting features interviews with the world’s most successful songwriters."

A "soda jerk" isn't normally associated with songs, unless of course, you ask Simon Barber and Brian O'Connor. It all started with something that Sydney Pollack said, which then led them to an academic article titled "Linguist Concoctions of the Soda Jerker".

"They'd come up with all these creative, alternate ways to describe things," said Simon of the soda jerk of the 1950s American diner. "We thought, well that's a great metaphor for creating magic out of the everyday, which is what the songwriter does."

And so they went with it, adopting Sodajerker for their songwriting partnership and eventually Sodajerker On Songwriting for their podcast.

In this episode of MetaPod, we talk to Simon and Brian about their approach to interviewing the world's most successful songwriters.

We also hear the lessons they've learned across Sodajerker On Songwriting's ten years as an independent podcast. Simon and Brian also discuss songwriting's position in the music industry, the impact of technology on songwriters and the challenges of the craft.

The two tell a bit about their own complementary songwriting partnership. And if you're wondering who else they hope to add to their incredible archive of guests, you'll find out in this interview.

About Sodajerker On Songwriting

Sodajerker is the creative partnership of Simon Barber and Brian O’Connor. Described by Esquire magazine as ‘the Frost/Nixon of tunesmithery’, their podcast Sodajerker On Songwriting contains the world’s most expansive archive of audio interviews with songwriters about their creative process. Now well into their 10th year, they’ve produced over 200 episodes of the show to date, featuring such luminaries as Sir Paul McCartney, Burt Bacharach, Alicia Keys, Paul Simon, Sting, St. Vincent, Beck, Elvis Costello, Nile Rodgers, Jon Bon Jovi, Lindsey Buckingham and Diane Warren. Despite having been downloaded millions of times, the series remains completely independent and ad-free, and has been featured in virtually every major music publication since its launch. Last year the Sodajerker interview archive was added to the British Library in London for posterity.

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“MetaPod unpacks the web’s most interesting podcasts and the stories behind them.”

“We made it!” – well, just about. After 36 shows featuring the finest podcasters in all the land, we decided to not take a breather to celebrate our first year, but produce a bonus episode of MetaPod.

Maybe it’s a slightly vain idea that listeners might want to hear about us, but we also wanted to catch up with each other about our packed calendar of episodes from 2021 – this time IN-PERSON (the shock, the horror!). So here it is – a record of ourselves talking with each other about ourselves and our wonderful show.

It’s not as bad as it sounds – honest. View the companion YouTube video here.

Fuelled by tea and extraordinarily good doughnuts (courtesy of Crosstown in London’s Square Mile), we tackle a few entertaining questions about MetaPod guests and topics. Check the show notes below.

MetaPod continues in 2022 with more unpacking of the web’s most interesting podcasts. Until then, why not spend the last few days of this year reflecting, with us, on a year of some amazing podcasts and guests?

Some might call it naval-gazing, but we’re not really into sea-based military stuff. We haven’t found a good podcast on that particular subject matter yet.

k + w

About Wendy Morrill and Kevin May

Wendy is co-host of MetaPod by night and employed by an international travel trade association by day. Her friends and enemies appreciate her love of baking, interest in new and old music and skeptical sense of humor. Before moving to the old Amsterdam, where she currently resides, Wendy lived in the new Amsterdam. She grew up in a different new place called New Hampshire. If you need a recipe for chocolate chip cookies, she can help you.

Kevin has somehow managed to be employed for over 25 years as a journalist, covering everything from crime, politics, media and, since 2005, travel and its intersection with technology. He’s the former Editor-In-Chief of US-based PhocusWire, although he mostly sits at home in the UK. Kevin’s accident rate on a mountain bike is worryingly high for a 40-something who should know better and he’s also spent far too long co-authoring a biography about electronic music pioneers Depeche Mode. Kevin is suspicious of people who do not like Marmite.

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“An entertaining look at some of the big issues in history by examining public apologies of the famous and infamous. Apologies Accepted looks at politicians, serial killers, actors, and you!”

Apologies Accepted is a place to examine and debate the controversies that develop around public apologies, as well as the expressions of remorse, regret and reparation – or failures thereof – that come along with them.

Listeners who appreciate firm opinions and critique of cultural and political affairs will appreciate Theo and Juliette’s discussions. From Bill Clinton and Monica Lewinksy to Billie Eilish and the Golden State Killer, Juliette and Theo dissect apologies of recent and historical significance. Oh yeah, and let’s not forget the Pope.

“We’re all human, we all make mistakes,” says Theo.

“Everybody’s got something that they’re sorry for. Hopefully, we grow out of it as we get older and understand a little bit more,” says Juliette.

In this episode of MetaPod, we learn what constitutes a good apology and why people deserve and should give, apologies. We also discuss the sincerity and value of apologies from politicians and institutions.

Are there things that simply cannot be apologized for? Do you think an apology means more when given by somebody on their deathbed? Find out Juliette and Theo’s answers to these and more tough questions about being sorry.

Show notes:

• Vatican says Pope Francis has agreed to visit Canada, meet with Indigenous leaders
• We All Owe Monica Lewinsky An Apology
• Billie Eilish Apologizes for Lip-Syncing Anti-Asian Slur
• Six Ways to Apologize Like You Mean It

About Juliette

Juliette co-hosts the Apologies Accepted podcast along with her high school friend, Theo. She manages IT projects by day, where she learns something new every ten minutes. Juliette was the publisher and editor of the first major feminist web journal, Feminista!, from 1995 to 2001.

Juliette lives in San Francisco with her husband Brent, the producer and engineer of Apologies Accepted, and a neurotic greyhound named Sophie, who has no role in the podcast. 

About Theo

Hailing from Los Angeles, Theo is a freelance copywriter currently based in Austin, TX.  He entered college at the age of 48 and majored in English at UT Austin, a move that taught him a needful lesson in humility but allowed him to change career paths. Previously Theo worked in Corporate America, starting off at Disneyland’s Marketing Department, eventually serving as Tourism Marketing Director for the cities of Los Angeles and West Hollywood. 

Theo and Juliette are both big fans of podcasts, and on a whim, created Apologies Accepted together – over 50 episodes later they are still awed every week by the fact they have actual listeners. Theo has been married for nearly 20 years now, a success he credits to his husband’s patience.  He enjoys baking and wine, ideally both at the same time.

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“The story of Daniel Morgan’s killing moves from back streets of London, through the highest echelons of Scotland Yard, to the offices of Rupert Murdoch’s best selling newspapers, to the doors of Number Ten Downing Street. If you haven’t heard this story, ask yourself, why?”

Untold: The Daniel Morgan Murder is not a podcast to reassure a listener who has lost faith in their country’s institutions.

It doesn’t have any kind of happy ending, either. There is no closure for the victim’s family, by way of a conviction of the killer, or killers. Nor does it have any of the shenanigans that went on behind the scenes to cover it up.

Morgan, a private investigator who it later emerged happened to be on the verge of selling a major story about police corruption to a tabloid newspaper, was murdered in the most brutal way (with an axe) in a South London pub car park in 1987.

The intervening 34 years have seen a number of official inquiries into the role of the police in the investigation and the suspects publicly named on numerous occasions, only for a prosecution to be abandoned in 2011.

Since the podcast concluded in October 2018 there have been some major developments, including an Independent Panel Report, which came to the conclusion that the investigating force, The Metropolitan Police in London, is “institutionally corrupt”.

Yet, still, the killer(s) remains at large and the fight for justice continues by the Morgan family.

Step forward, Peter Jukes, a screenwriter who produced Untold alongside Deeivya Meir and produced what is probably the definitive account of Morgan’s backstory and the investigations.

In this episode of MetaPod, Jukes joins us to give his perspective on the case to date and, of equal importance, what such complex connections between the police, the suspects, organized crime, the press and government mean for society.

Show notes:

• Cast of “characters”
• The Daniel Morgan Independent Panel Report
• BBC Documentary

About Peter Jukes

Peter Jukes is an author and dramatist. He is the executive editor and co-founder of Byline Times, an independent news and opinion platform focussed on “what the papers don’t say”. In addition to presenting the story of the Daniel Morgan murder in the podcast Untold: The Daniel Morgan Murder, Peter co-authored with Alastair Morgan the book Untold: Exposing The Truth About The Daniel Morgan Murder.

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“Almost a perfect crime. The hacking ring and an attempt to steal a billion dollars. Investigators blame North Korea. Pyongyang denies involvement. The story begins in Hollywood.”

The Lazarus Heist is a BBC World Service podcast examining cybercrime and how modern nation-states are utilising such tactics. The story starts with the 2014 hack into Sony Pictures’ information systems. The operation led to a shutdown of the company’s computer networks, seizure of its digital files and leak of confidential information into the public domain. The perpetrator? North Korea.

“What’s interesting about the Sony hack is that it did demonstrate this other purpose of a cyber hack, which I believe is to sow discord or chaos,” says Jean Lee, journalist and co-host of The Lazarus Heist.

There are other reasons cyber hacks are utilised by North Korea, according to Jean Lee — “to use it as a form of asymmetric warfare.”

To illustrate the global threat that cybercrime presents, The Lazarus Heist also highlights other significant cyberattacks. These include the 2016 Bangladesh Bank heist and the 2017 Wannacry ransomware attack that affected the UK’s National Health Service (NHS). Other culprits involved in these cyber attacks? Microsoft, the United States National Security Agency (NSA) and Russian intelligence groups.

Jean Lee’s knowledge of Korea, North and South, combined with Geoff White’s knowledge of cybercrime add up to a fascinating story of technology, culture and history in The Lazarus Heist. The story is as important for understanding the effects of cybercrime on individuals and society as it is for understanding modern international relations.

In this episode of MetaPod, we learn about cybercrime methods and why they have become attractive instruments of asymmetric warfare and income generation for North Korea.

Show notes:

• The Lazarus heist: How North Korea almost pulled of a billion-dollar hack
• The Korean War
• CNC song

About Jean Lee

Jean H. Lee is a writer, commentator and expert on North Korea. Jean led the Associated Press news agency’s coverage of the Korean Peninsula as bureau chief from 2008 to 2013. In 2011, she became the first American reporter granted extensive access on the ground in North Korea, and in January 2012, she opened AP’s Pyongyang bureau. Jean now serves as a senior fellow at the Wilson Center think tank in Washington, DC.

About Geoff White

Election hacking, the dark web, multi-billion dollar cyber heists – investigative journalist Geoff White has covered it all. His work’s been featured by BBC News, Channel 4 News, The Sunday Times and more. His book, Crime Dot Com, takes you inside the murky world of the digital underground, uncovering cybercrime’s emergence as today’s global threat.

The twists and turns of his investigations into hacking have informed and entertained audiences from music festivals to political party conferences and his live phone-hacking stage show was a sell-out hit at the Edinburgh Fringe Festival.

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“Your weekly infusion of plant-based nutrition, lifestyle habits and mindset to live your best life possible!“

How many of your lifestyle habits are optimised for good health and wellness? Your sleep? Your physical activity? What you eat? All of the above? One? None?

Dr Yami Carzorla-Lancaster is a podcasting paediatrician, lifestyle medicine physician and health & wellness coach based in the state of Washington in the USA. As you’ll hear, she’s very passionate about plant-based nutrition and lifestyle habits for optimum health. Dr Yami emphasizes that even small changes in diet can slow or arrest disease, physical movement can contribute to longevity and that there are more than 50,000 plants that humans can benefit from.

“Not enough people realise that nutrition is as powerful as it is,” says Dr Yami. “Most people have no clue that some people are able to reverse their (type 2) diabetes in 10 days with a change of diet.”

Dr Yami shares her passion for edible plants on the Veggie Doctor Radio podcast. The show has more than 180 episodes and features conversations with health and wellness experts. She also discusses plant foods and their nutritional profiles and benefits.

In this episode of MetaPod, we talk to Dr Yami about her journey towards a plant-based lifestyle. You’ll learn that part of that is her family’s minimalist lifestyle. Dr Yami also shares recipes to help you add more veggies to your routine or just try something new.

Additionally, Dr Yami offers her professional thoughts on the future of nutritional guidance and industry influence on that guidance. She also tells us about the research that is likely to radically shift our thinking about the human body. Kev and Wendy start things off with some corny veggie puns and wrap up with Dr Yami’s F bombs: FIBER and FLATULENCE.

Show notes

• Dr Yami’s freebies, including “Let’s Eat Beans!”
• A Parent’s Guide to Intuitive Eating
• Born to Run
• The Vegan Society
• Micropia

About Dr Yami

Dr Yami is a board-certified paediatrician, certified lifestyle medicine physician, national board-certified health and wellness coach, author, podcast host and professional speaker. A passionate promoter of healthy lifestyles, especially the power of plant-based diets for the prevention of chronic disease, she founded VeggieFitKids.com where she provides information on plant-based diets for children. She also hosts the podcast Veggie Doctor Radio.

Dr Yami obtained a certificate in plant-based nutrition, is a certified Food for Life Instructor, and a Jack Canfield Success Principles Certified Trainer. She is a fellow of the American Academy of Pediatrics and a diplomate of the American College of Lifestyle Medicine.

Dr Yami owns Nourish Wellness, a pediatric micro-practice in Yakima, WA where she lives with her husband and two active sons. 

Her book is entitled A Parent’s

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“In 1996 French film producer Sophie Toscan du Plantier is found dead near her holiday home. There are no witnesses and no known motive. The police suspect one man in this community but they can’t make a charge stick and he refuses to leave, living under the glare of suspicion ever since.”

In West Cork, Sam Bungey and Jennifer Forde bring one of Ireland’s most widely known tragedies to international listeners. The podcast explores the murder case of Sophie Toscan du Plantier, a woman found bludgeoned to death outside of her vacation cottage in a remote area of West Cork just before Christmas in 1996.

Sam and Jennifer attempt to pick up the pieces of an investigation mired with problems for decades. They immerse themselves in the small community, talking to those disturbed by the horror and its legacy. Surprisingly, this includes the main suspect, who remains rather unusually involved with the case.

Intimate and measured, West Cork keeps listeners on the edge of doubt and certainty. Listeners will experience the emotional “push and pull” that Sam and Jennifer experienced themselves during their investigation.

In this episode of MetaPod, Jennifer and Sam explain how they tackled the storytelling challenges that a complex, unsolved, international murder case presents.

They reflect on their own thinking and creative processes for the podcast, describing the unique context and characters involved. Also, Sam and Jennifer reveal the story behind the photograph on the podcast artwork.

Show notes:

• The couple behind the West Cork podcast, Irish Examiner
• Sophie Toscan du Plantier’s son makes fresh appeal: ‘You have a murderer in Ireland’, The Irish Times
• Ian Bailey is offered lie detector test over murder of Sophie Toscan du Plantier, The Irish Independent
• Explore West Cork

About Sam Bungey and Jennifer Forde

Sam Bungey and Jennifer Forde have worked together in podcasting for six years. They produced and hosted West Cork for Audible, and an 8-part Spotify/BBC Studios series on the punk band the Clash, hosted by Chuck D.

As an award-winning documentary television producer, Jennifer has worked with the BBC and Britain’s leading independent production companies. She believes that the most important part of telling any story is letting the people who have lived it tell it for you.

As a journalist, Sam has contributed to This American Life, the Guardian, the Daily Beast and elsewhere. He started his career in Dublin with a national monthly magazine, Mongrel.

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