Mezzo by Chris Damian

In the latest Mezzo episode, I talk with author and Building Catholic Futures co-founder Eve Tushnet to ask the question: why do LGBTQ+ Catholics seek out conversion therapy? What emotional and spiritual pressures drive Catholics to the practice? And why does simply saying “it doesn’t work” fail to deter vulnerable LGBTQ+ Catholics from seeking it? We also dive into Eve’s story of converting to Catholicism, navigating life as a Gay Catholic, the “side A / side B” discourse in Christian spaces, and much more. I’m very excited to share this conversation with you!

00:00 Building Catholic Futures

02:33 Catholic Convert Backstory

06:31 Blogging and Public Voice

12:47 Why Conversion Therapy Appeals

20:52 Hidden Harms and Aftermath

25:09 Sexuality Change Claims

26:14 Beyond Born This Way

26:48 Stories Over Orientation Fixes

30:21 Pastoral Care Next Steps

33:12 Integrated Gay Catholic Life

51:42 Building Catholic Futures

As an adolescent, I fell in love with the Catholic intellectual tradition. I was led to believe that Catholicism, holding the fullness of truth, could withstand any intellectual scrutiny. But over time I began to realize that many Catholics would cheapen this tradition… often in the name of “orthodoxy.”

In the latest Mezzo episode, I explore the psychology of orthodoxy. I examine how a fear of heresy, litmus tests, and identity policing can weaken intellectual inquiry. And I look at how preoccupations with orthodoxy can, paradoxically, lead us into heterodoxy. As Catholics, we can unintentionally expose our insecurities about the faith when we ask of someone, “Is he orthodox?”

Fortunately, there’s a better way… and it can be found in the Church.

00:00 Why Orthodoxy Feels Unsafe

00:43 My Story and the Fear of Inquiry

02:30 Shoehorning and Fragile Certainty

03:33 Gay Identity and the Catechism

05:31 Peter and Psychological Reflexes

08:15 The Orthodox Litmus Test

09:06 Bad Faith and Cult Dynamics

11:44 Gatekeeping in Catholic Culture

14:16 Beyond Boxes Toward Truth

16:03 Brick or Weapon Closing Thoughts

17:07 Outro and Where to Follow

This is the eighth episode on FOCUS, the Fellowship of Catholic University Students. FOCUS a ministry with more than 1000 young people based largely on college campuses around the United States and which last year had a revenue of $126 million.

In this episode, you’ll hear the rest of our panel discussions with Kelly, Mat, Carole, Christine, Mary, and Anton. They share how they’ve built their lives after FOCUS, where they feel both gratitude and regret from their time in the ministry, and what they would say to their younger selves.

00:00 — Introduction: the final chapter of the FOCUS series

02:13 — Healing after leaving high-control religious spaces

03:21 — Mary on identity, deconstruction, and finding joy

06:13 — Christine on reclaiming her voice and trusting herself

10:21 — Zebra pants, belonging, and taking back joy

12:32 — Anton on faith, freedom, and an expanding world

14:14 — Revisiting the past: rumination, regret, and solidarity

17:30 — Anton on therapy, trauma, and inherent worth

20:10 — Gratitude for speaking out and sharing stories

21:25 — Carol on anger, finding her voice, and public honesty

25:03 — Accountability, repair, and compassion for people who caused harm

29:02 — Chris reflects on the series and the work still ahead

32:09 — What the panelists would tell their younger selves

38:52 — Closing reflections and thanks

This is the seventh episode on FOCUS Catholic, the Fellowship of Catholic University Students. FOCUS a ministry with more than 1000 young people based largely on college campuses around the United States and which last year had a revenue of $126 million.

In this episode, Christine reflects on her years as a FOCUS missionary, in religious life with the Franciscan Sisters of the Renewal, and working for a Catholic parish run by a FOCUS priest. She learned from Curtis Martin a simple formula: love God, discover a vocation, and live it out. And she pursued this promise, even amidst financial strain, vocational pressures, breaches of trust, burnout, and more.

Ultimately, this is a story of survival, of finding sunshine, and of help and hope in the darkest moments.

1:20 — Christine’s story and the purpose of life

3:14 — Early experiences with faith and fundraising

5:10 — Burnout, mental health, and hospitalization

7:07 — Finding herself beyond faith expectations

8:34 — Helpers, gratitude, and protecting herself from false promises

This is the sixth episode on FOCUS Catholic, the Fellowship of Catholic University Students. FOCUS a ministry with more than 1000 young people based largely on college campuses around the United States and which last year had a revenue of $126 million.

In this episode, we'll continue to explore the disparities between the external image of FOCUS and what too many suffered from the inside. I'll share allegations of abuse behavior on the part of FOCUS Founder Curtis Martin, how Martin kept a man in ministry even after a Court detailed sworn testimony of abuse, and how today FOCUS even has that missionary living in a $2 million luxury home owned by the ministry.

We'll unpack:

- The allegations against Curtis Martin that were reportedly raised to Focus and its board

- What court records say about the missionary’s conduct in his marriage

- How staff say Focus handled the victim and the public narrative

- Why a $2 million home tied to Focus raises fresh financial questions how messaging around femininity, masculinity, and submission can become a recipe for abuse

And we'll connect this case to broader church failures, showing how silence, reputation management, and unchecked authority can harm the very people ministries claim to serve. This is not just about one organization’s scandal - it’s about what happens when leaders are protected, victims are minimized, and accountability is treated as optional.

00:00 — Introduction: Allegations surrounding Focus

03:46 — The letter accusing Curtis Martin of threatening behavior

08:23 — Court findings in the missionary’s marriage case

10:41 — How Focus allegedly responded to the abuse allegations

14:02 — Gender culture, control, and patterns of abuse

18:42 — Wider allegations and the case for an independent investigation

22:45 — Questions about luxury properties and financial transparency

28:12 — A call for accountability from Focus leadership

30:34 — A message to current and former Focus members

33:24 — Advocacy, healing, and resources

This is the fifth episode on FOCUS Catholic, the Fellowship of Catholic University Students. FOCUS a ministry with more than 1000 young people based largely on college campuses around the United States and which last year had a revenue of $126 million. In this episode, we explore how FOCUS didn’t just recruit students - it shaped identities, relationships, and entire careers. Kelly, Mat, Carol, Anton, Christine, and Mary return to tell us what it’s actually like to be “won, built, and sent” by one of the American Church’s most influential ministries, and why they’re still processing what they experienced years after leaving the ministry.What left missionaries facing panic attacks and hiding in bathrooms during Mass? Why do many former missionaries struggle with substance abuse today? How do those once engaged with the ministry process the harms they helped perpetuate within it? And how did the mental anguish from messages within FOCUS get so bad that it led one former leader to get checked into a psychiatric hospital? We’ll explore all this and much more. 0:00 — When Care Becomes Control2:09 — Burnout, Boundaries, and Work Culture8:53 — Control, Privilege, and Gendered Harm19:27 — Hiding Pain and Losing Trust21:58 — Family Leave, COVID, and Physical Safety27:10 — Shame, Substance Use, and Delayed Growth32:24 — Trauma, Testimony, and Spiritual Authority37:14 — Leaving FOCUS and Reclaiming Identity39:36 — A Crisis and Choosing Survival43:31 — Why These Stories Matter46:27 — Accountability, Apology, and Healing48:56 — Finding Support Without an Apology

This is the fourth episode on FOCUS Catholic, a ministry with more than 1000 young people based largely on college campuses around the United States and which last year had a revenue of $126 million. In this episode, we explore how the inside story of FOCUS is far messier than its public image. Six former insiders—Carol Marceau, Kelly Wuebben, Mat Wuebben, Christine Grote, Anton Kallungal, and Mary Forbes—reveal how a ministry that claimed belonging, mission, and spiritual zeal would normalize shame, control, and silence for those harmed. Beneath the Bible studies and the conference highs is a machine that relied on love bombing, emotional unchastity, gender discrimination, transactional relationships, and the pressure to appear joyful while your mental health unravels. We'll also unpack some more issues related to finances and hiring. This includes the bar being so low for male hires that one woman had to push against a group of other recruiters who wanted to hire a male candidate who was "on fire" for his faith... even after the recruit admitted to lying during the application process.The panelists occupied a range of roles within the organization, from student leader to missionary to team director to events coordinator to accounting manager, and together they help us unpack the harms behind FOCUS and the hope for the future. 00:00 — Introduction: A Closer Look at FOCUS02:07 — Fundraising, Isolation, and Spiritual Pressure07:05 — The Emotional Cost of Fundraising11:36 — A Breaking Point at Headquarters19:19 — Unqualified Leadership and Pay Inequity25:11 — Financial Controls, Expenses, and Accountability31:39 — Race, Representation, and Recruitment38:54 — Double Standards and the Suppression of Strong Women40:37 — A Choice Not to Continue with FOCUS42:54 — Closing

This is the third episode in the multi-part series on the Catholic ministry FOCUS, the Fellowship of Catholic University Students. In this episode, we’ll hear from both sets of panelists: Carol, Kelly, Mat, Christine, Anton, and Mary. They talk us through love-bombing on the part of missionaries, the handling of unmarried missionaries who become pregnant, and some HR practices that discriminate against women. Some of what they shared was shocking, including how those involved in hiring were at times given different parameters for male vs female candidates, and also how a traumatized missionary was forced to go endure a talk on pornography that directly triggered her traumatic experiences.We talk through the shame behind the machinery of FOCUS, what harms they themselves participated in, and how they’re unpacking accountability for themselves as they move forward. How can Catholic ministries do better? And how can we assist with healing for those who have already been harmed in them?Much more to come.00:00 — FOCUS, marriage culture, and belonging02:54 — Unequal hiring standards for women and men06:16 — How gender inequality became systemic08:04 — Vocation, marriage, and pressure on women11:31 — Mary’s experience of sexuality and belonging17:11 — Mentorship barriers and pregnancy in ministry18:57 — Modesty culture, control, and harm22:10 — Processing complicity, grief, and healing24:22 — What’s next: financial practices within Focus

This is the second episode in the multi-part series on the Catholic ministry FOCUS, the Fellowship of Catholic University Students. In this episode, we welcome a second group of panelists: Christine Grote, Mary Forbes, and Anton Kallungal. They discuss how FOCUS promised purpose, belonging, and holiness, but how those promises came with normalized shame, the marginalization of women, and psychological confusion. They'll share how they went from Catholics with many disagreements with Church teaching to impassioned FOCUS apologists, to largely no longer identifying with Catholicism. They shared a similar pattern in which they felt that FOCUS took advantage of their vulnerability and need for community, meaning, and healing. Christine shares how grief, desperation, and simple messages drew her into the ministry. Anton shares how belonging, identity, and a desire to be valued made him vulnerable to radical traditionalism and double standards. And Mary opens up about coming to terms with her sexuality, and how her attractions to other women faced a double bind within the ministry. There's much more to come.00:00 — Introduction01:54 — Looking back: who they were before FOCUS09:37 — How FOCUS drew them in18:19 — Belonging, pressure, and deciding not to stay20:05 — Exclusion and hierarchy within FOCUS23:21 — Shame, scandal, and controlling the narrative26:14 — Coming up

This is the first episode in the multi-part series on the Catholic ministry FOCUS, the Fellowship of Catholic University Students. In this episode, we explore how FOCUS built a culture of belonging, then quietly taught people to doubt themselves, their bodies, and their instincts. In this conversation, three former FOCUS leaders—Carol Marceau, Kelly Wuebben, and Matt Wuebben—unpack what happens when a ministry built on mission, image, and influence collides with real human vulnerability.What starts as a story about Bible studies on campus becomes something much more complicated: emotional manipulation, purity culture, fundraising shame, gendered double standards, and the hidden cost of calling young adults “leaders” while treating them like disposable labor. Carol, Kelly, and Matt each bring a different vantage point—student, accountant, HR manager, therapist, missionary, and leader—and together they reveal how deeply the system shaped their careers, relationships, mental health, and faith.00:00 — Intro: FOCUS, religious trauma, and why these stories matter02:20 — Looking back: what their younger selves would think now05:00 — Where Kelly, Matt, and Carol are today10:25 — Framing the conversation: harm, accountability, and different experiences11:25 — How Carol first found belonging through FOCUS14:10 — Kelly and Matt’s path into ministry18:20 — Vulnerability, belonging, and recruitment culture20:00 — Targeting influence and the dynamics of love bombing23:40 — Emotional chastity, purity culture, and lasting wounds27:10 — Gender expectations, dating culture, and “FOCUS widows”31:55 — Masculinity, isolation, shame, and life on mission37:30 — Closing reflections and what’s ahead