Dave Ross interviews Michael Shellenberger, who considers himself a conservationist and environmentalist, and yet also thinks that wind and solar power are completely inefficient. Instead, he's been proposing (for years!) that our solution to the global energy crisis lies in nuclear power plants. He thinks nuclear gets a bad rap, and so he founded Environmental Progress, a financially independent research and policy organization that advocates for nuclear energy. He talks with Dave about why nuclear works, and why no one likes it.