In this episode, Mik Kersten is joined by Gene Kim—author of The Phoenix Project and The Unicorn Project—for a deep dive into Vibe Coding, his upcoming book co-authored with Steve Yegge. Gene shares how learning to “vibe code”—where the developer supervises AI-generated code instead of writing it line by line—transformed his own productivity and reignited his passion for coding.

The conversation unpacks how AI-assisted development drives an unprecedented 10x increase in productivity—and why most organizations are structurally unprepared to take advantage of it. Mik and Gene explore the architectural shifts, leadership models, and organizational rewiring needed to thrive in this new era. From FAFO (Faster, Ambitious, Fun, Optionality) to the fall of monolithic systems, they cover it all.

Plus, they draw parallels between AI and past industrial revolutions, touch on real-world stories from Booking.com, Adidas, and the UK government, and preview Mik’s forthcoming book, Output to Outcomes, a playbook for organizations navigating the shift from outputs to measurable, scalable results in the age of AI.

Key discussions include:

Why traditional team structures and monolithic architectures are holding back the potential of AI

The FAFO model (Faster, Ambitious, Fun, Optionality) and what it means for developer experience

Lessons from Amazon, Booking.com, and the UK government on adopting GenAI at scale

Why modularity and outcome-based teams are essential for thriving in the age of AI

Subscribe to the Mik + One podcast today so you never miss an episode and don’t forget to leave your review. Follow Mik on Twitter: @mik_kersten #MikPlusOne

For more information about Gene Kim and to view the full list of resources mentioned in this episode, as well as download the transcript, visit: Show Notes and Transcript.pdf

Joining Mik in this episode of Mik + One is Patrick Dubois. Often referred to as the Godfather of DevOps, Patrick shares his insights on the evolving landscape of DevOps and its intersection with generative AI. He discusses how the principles of DevOps are being applied to the rapidly changing world of AI, emphasizing the importance of testing, automation, and team structures in this new era. Patrick reflects on the lessons learned from past technology transformations and how they can inform current practices in integrating AI into business processes.  

Listen as Mik and Patrick as they outline actionable strategies for organizations to move from experimentation to the successful productization of AI solutions, underscoring the importance of collaboration and feedback in driving innovation. 

Key discussions include: 

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@mik_kersten #MikPlusOne 

Additional Resources: 

YouTube Reference: 

- "Every AI Engineer Deserves an AI Platform" https://youtu.be/p1AITmS6JrA?si=sEo2oArZqp1PRaHo

- "Generative AI is Changing Our Jobs as Software and DevOps Engineers" https://youtu.be/qMLEI4ZaktE?si=N6aonwLH3bsDHtFp 

More Resources:

Joining Mik in this episode of Mik + One are industry luminaries Dr. Suzette Johnson and Robin Yeman. Suzette and Robin explore the integration of lean, agile, and digital methodologies into the increasingly complex realm of cyber-physical systems. They share compelling insights from their recently published book, "Industrial DevOps: Build Better Systems Faster." Suzette and Robin also stress the importance of integrating agile practices beyond software into hardware and the broader cyber-physical ecosystem, highlighting real-world examples and debunking common misconceptions. 

Listen as Mik, Suzette, and Robin reflect on the evolution from small team agility to expansive, multifunctional team cohesion.

Key discussions include:

• Agile Beyond Software: Agile isn't limited to software; it can and should extend into hardware and cyber-physical systems for holistic efficiency.

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Follow Mik on Twitter:

@mik_kersten #MikPlusOne

Additional Resources:

• Portfolio SAFe

Martin Harryson & Megha Sinha 

Joining Mik in this episode of Mik + One are Martin Harryson & Megha Sinha from McKinsey & Company. With a focus on their research which quantified the benefits of shifting from project to product models, Martin and Megha share insights on how these transformations can significantly enhance profitability and efficiency. As technology advances, the integration and upskilling necessary for these models are more critical than ever.

Listen as Mik, Martin, and Megha explore the importance of cross-functional collaboration, the challenges in aligning incentives, and the necessity of robust organizational design. 

Key discussions include:

• The product operating model can significantly enhance return to shareholders and operating margins, with the top quartile companies outperforming others by substantial margins.

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@mik_kersten #MikPlusOne

Additional Resources:

• Portfolio SAFe

https://flowframework.org/ffc-podcast/martin-harrysson-and-megha-sinha/

Joining Mik in this episode of Mik + One is Dr. Steve Mayner, a revered expert and coach in digital leadership, organizational change strategy, continuous learning culture, agile contracts, and SAFe practices within government contexts. Mik and Dr. Steve Mayner discuss the nuances of transformative leadership and its pivotal role in driving successful business agility and digital transformation efforts. They also examine the evolution and future of Lean-Agile practices tailored for the fast-evolving AI landscape.

Listen as Mik and Dr. Steve Mayner explore the intersections of digital leadership, Agile transformation, and the emerging impacts of artificial intelligence in the digital age.

Key discussions include:

• Transformational leadership is essential for fostering an innovative and adaptive organizational culture.

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Follow Mik on Twitter:

@mik_kersten #MikPlusOne

Additional Resources:

• Portfolio SAFe

For more information about Steve Mayner and to view the full list of resources mentioned in this episode, as well as download the transcript, visit: https://flowframework.org/ffc-podcast/steve-mayner/

Joining Mik in this episode of Mik + One is technology luminary Gene Kim. Gene Kim is an esteemed author and technology thought leader with over two decades of experience studying high-performing technology organizations. Mik and Gene look into the groundbreaking insights from Gene's latest book, "Wiring the Winning Organization," co-authored with Dr. Steven Spear. They navigate the pressing need for new organizational frameworks that bridge the gaps left by traditional models like Lean, Agile, and DevOps. They also analyze the core mechanisms vital to achieving optimal organizational performance, such as simplification and amplification.

Listen as Mik and Gene explore the concept of ‘slowification’—the strategic slowdown for long-term gains—and provide practical advice on how technology leaders can implement these changes. 

Key discussions include:

• Understanding the critical layers involved in organizational performance: objects (code, patients), tools (IDEs, MRI machines), and social circuitry (team communication).

Subscribe to the Mik + One podcast today so you never miss an episode and don’t forget to leave your review.

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@mik_kersten #MikPlusOne

Additional Resources:

• Portfolio SAFe

For more information about Gene Kim and to view the full list of resources mentioned in this episode, as well as download the transcript, visit: https://flowframework.org/ffc-podcast/gene-kim-ep-57/

Joining Mik in this episode of Mik + One is Scott Densmore, VP of Engineering at GitHub, to discuss the future of connected work and the impact of GitHub Copilot on developer productivity.

Listen as Mik and Scott discuss the potential for customization and extensibility in Copilot, allowing developers to build their agents and their skills to further enhance their workflows.  

Key discussions include: 

• GitHub Copilot is an AI-powered tool that provides code completion and suggestions to developers, increasing productivity and reducing toil. 

Subscribe to the Mik + One podcast today so you never miss an episode and don’t forget to leave your review. 

Follow Mik on X: 

@mik_kersten #MikPlusOne 

Additional Resources: 

• Portfolio SAFe 

Joining Mik in this episode of Mik + One is Professor Mohan Sawhney, Associate Dean of Digital Innovation and a Clinical Professor of Marketing at Northwestern University. ​

Sawhney discusses the evolution and importance of product management as a discipline. He emphasizes the need for formal training and frameworks in product management and highlights the role of product managers as mini CEOs and customer advocates. Sawhney also explores the challenges and opportunities in implementing product management in different industries, including technology companies, B2B industrial companies, and service-based organizations. 

Listen as Mik and Sawhney explore the impact of generative AI on product management, and highlight its potential to enhance day-to-day tasks and improve efficiency and effectiveness

Key discussions include:

• Understanding customer problems and exceeding customer needs

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@mik_kersten #MikPlusOne

Additional Resources:

• Portfolio SAFe

Joining Mik in this episode of Mik + One is Pallab Chatterjee, a visionary entrepreneur and technology expert. Pallab is currently the chairman of 3Lines VC, a boutique VC firm specializing in investments in AI-focused companies in the US and India. Pallab shares his journey from running a research lab at Texas Instruments to becoming the CEO of IT Technologies and Symphony Retail AI. Mik and Pallab discuss the TI-84 and TI-86 calculators, which Pallab helped bring to market, and how they revolutionized the industry. They discuss the importance of understanding waste and its impact on organizational capacity and the role of finance in driving digital transformation. 

Mik and Pallab also discuss the importance of actionable visibility and the challenges of implementing predictive and prescriptive models in organizations.

Key discussions include: 

• The story behind the Ti 84 and Ti 86 calculators

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Follow Mik on Twitter:

@mik_kersten #MikPlusOne

Additional Resources:

• Portfolio SAFe

Joining Mik in this episode of Mik + One is technology visionary George Kadifa to discuss generative AI and its potential impact on the tech industry.

George discusses how generative AI has changed the conversation with machines, allowing them to generate new content, code, images, and videos in a multi-modal fashion. This development is expected to be even bigger than all the previous tech transformations combined. George Kadifa has a long history of predicting tech trends and capitalizing on them. He believes that generative AI is set to revolutionize the scientific method by being able to comprehend complex situations with billions of parameters, which could have huge implications for medicine and other areas of science. 

Mik and George also discuss how the development of deep learning has led to a shift from workflow-based software to information-based software, with the ability to create predictive and generative capabilities.

Key discussions include: 

• The Impact of Generative AI on the Technology and Enterprise Landscape

Subscribe to the Mik + One podcast today so you never miss an episode: https://www.planview.com/lp/mik-plus-one/ 

Follow Mik on Twitter:

@mik_kersten #MikPlusOne

Additional Resources:

• Join the Flow Framework Community