Our relationship to resources shapes the world. Our food, our clothing, our devices, our building materials and the infrastructure that underpins moving them from place to place. On this podcast, we've explored a lot around food as a resource - its impact on land and human health and some of the inputs and externalities of our food system. Now, I'd like to take a turn to explore some other resources and the ubiquitous, yet unseen, infrastructure that moves them to us and our waste products away from us. Coming episodes will be filled with this exploration and so I want to give us a little primer on why this became so interesting to me and why it matters.

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In this episode of the podcast, Kate sits down with author and poet Melanie Challenger to discuss her two books How to Be Animal and On Extinction. Melanie also hosted the beautiful podcast ‘Psychosphere’ exploring the minds of animals outside of the human animal. This episode explores our disconnection with nature and how it begins in childhood and how it might separate us from the truth that we, as humans, are also animals. It explores what it might mean to come home to the realization that we are animals. Death, mortality, and grief and their roles in our animal bodies are explored as is our human superpower ability to love. This is big episode with a lot of beautiful explorations into what it really means to be human. 

Find Melanie:

How to Be Animal by Melanie Challenger

On Extinction by Melanie Challenger

Galatea by Melanie Challenger

Resources Mentioned:

Animals in the Room

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In this episode, I (Kate Kavanaugh) sit down with Cole Mannix of Old Salt Co-Op to talk about vertically integrating the agriculture of the middle with systems that are built to serve ranchers and consumers alike. Cole talks about his innovative business (and funding) structure, the upcoming Old Salt Festival in Helmville, Montana in June (I went last year and spoiler alert: it’s amazing) and the business they’re building to serve a regional food system. At least, those were all the topics that brought us to the table to talk. But what came out was something a bit different - it was about what it means to live a good life and a good death, about how limits can give us surprising freedom, and what it means to build a business that you can truly live in. This episode is about taking risks and dreaming really big dreams, really digging into what it means to build bridges and communities, and about what we might leave our children. Cole, with a varied background in biology, philosophy, and theology who grew up on the Mannix Family Ranch, had a lot to say, and to be honest, I just sat and listened. 

Find Cole and Old Salt:

Old Salt Festival Instagram

Old Salt Coop Instagram

Old Salt Outpost Instagram

Old Salt Co-Op Festival Early Bird Tickets

Old Salt Co-Op

Old Salt Producer Webinars

Resources Mentioned:

The Cross and the Machine by Paul Kingsnorth

The Haimish Line

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Robby Sansom is one of the founders of Force of Nature Meats and has a mind for marrying the qualitative with the quantitative. In this episode, Robby and Kate explore what it means to build sustainable business models, try to make really massive numbers a little bit more tangible, and speak candidly about the meat industry. It’s an episode that explores candidly everything about the tight-margined meat business, competition between smaller and larger shareholders within the industry, and what it might mean to have a triple bottom line of people, profit, and planet.

Find Robby:

Instagram: @forceofnaturemeats

What Good Shall I Do Conference (April 19+20)

Episode with Katie Forrest from FoN

Resources Mentioned:

The Tracker by Tom Brown

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Lily Nichols returns to the podcast to discuss what it means to optimize for fertility - and for vitality. This episode is for everyone: men, women, people trying to conceive and not! Lily’s new book “Real Food for Fertility,” centers on how whole foods can enhance fertility. The book is backed by extensive research with over 2,500 citations and comes recommended for those looking to improve their health. In the episode, Kate and Lily draw attention to the similarities between soil, animal, and human health, as well as the negative effects of modern living that underscore the critical role of preconception health. Tune in for a discussion that includes explorations on egg/sperm quality, menstruation as a vital sign, amino acids, vegetarian diets in pregnancy, micronutrient balance, and more! 

Find Lily:

Instagram: @lilynicholrdn

First Episode with Lily

Real Food for Fertility

Real Food for Pregnancy 

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Irene Lyon’s SmartBody SmartMind Program (Feb 13-Feb22nd): Sign Up Here

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In this episode, Kate sits down with author Ben Goldfarb to discuss the profound effects of beavers and humans on ecosystems, particularly through the construction of roads and habitats. Ben Goldfarb is the author of Crossings: How Road Ecology is Shaping the Future of Our Planet and Eager: The Surprising, Secret Life of Beavers and Why They Matter. In this episode we explore a world filled with paradox, interconnectedness, and circularity. It’s a dialogue about the differences, and similarities, in how beavers and humans approach world building that uncovers thoughts on our built vs natural worlds and the implications for the future, the environment, and our communities. Ben shares some about the history of roads and how they bring us both closer to and further away from nature and from one another. Simultaneously, we explore how roads tend to beget more roads, just like how beaver dams tend to beget a more interconnected ecology. This is a big conversation, a fantastic interview that spans topics large and small to give listeners an idea of how we might build a better path forward. 

Find Ben:

X (formerly Twitter): @ben_a_goldfarb

Crossings: How Road Ecology is Shaping the Future of Our Planet

Eager: The Suprising, Secret Life of Beavers and Why They Matter

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MINDBODYSOIL_15 for 15% off Redmond Real Salt

In this episode, Kate sits down with Dr. Julia Skinner to discuss all manner of things, as it tends to be when two generalists sit down together. Julia’s work is multi-disciplinary, weaving together threads of her interests into a celebration of creative practice, fermentation, food history, the history of libraries, and beyond. The conversation explores the cultivation of both process and practice for creatives and how it can be made tactile in the art of fermentation. Julia, a writing and creative coach, shares what it takes to make a container for transformation of self, or cabbage, or community, or your creative goals and how play and celebration can facilitate and deepen that practice. We also discuss some of the structures and stories we’re told from society and culture about creative practice (amongst other things) and how we might begin to reframe and dismantle them into something that is joyful. It is also about doing away with the idea of failure altogether, if not for ourselves, than for the sake of the community we’re collaborating with. At it’s heart, this about transformation, process, and cultivation and is the perfect antidote to hustle culture’s idea of goals. 

We also talk about:

Somatic Experiencing and Embodiment

Creating Ferments

Find Julia:

Email: [email protected] 

Instagram: @yourrootsandbranches, @bookishjulia, @rootkitchens

Roots + Branches 

Our Fermented Lives

Oracle Deck

Books Mentioned:

Range by David Epstein

The Art of Fermentation by Sandor Katz

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Scott Carney makes his second appearance on the podcast to talk about his new book Dream: the Art and Science of Slumber. It's a deliciously short book that reframes sleep. It's a little bit science and a little bit art and it manages to quote Jurassic Park once, so it's a big win. In this episode, Scott and I chase some rabbits around ideas related to sleep. Have we couched sleep in the language of economic productivity and forgotten what it is to dream? Does our sleep distill our life into emotions and do those exist to form the basis of our memories and who we are in waking life? What does the spectrum between sleep and wake say about our consciousness? We also touch in on Scott's dreams of anacondas and what a rumen does anyway. This is a podcast that gives you, amongst many things, permission to dream.

Find Scott:

Scott's Most Recent Book: Dream: the Art and Science of Slumber

Scott's YouTube

Scott's Instagram: @sgcarney

Scott's Other Books

Previous MBS Episode with Scott

Books Mentioned:

the Experience Machine by Andy Clark

Saving Time by Jenny Odell

Now by Richard Muller

Einstein's Dreams by Alan Lightman

Yoga Nidra by Kamini Desai

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In this solo episode, Kate dives into those spaces that are neither here nor there, the "in betweens", exploring the idea that when we set goals now (point a) for a place in the future (point b), the real gift is the process that unfolds in between. With that in mind, Kate explores the tension between not wanting to fall into the hustle and productivity-driven culture of goal setting but also enjoying, frankly, the process of evaluation and setting goals. This is also an exploration of Type 2 fun, that space between not enjoying something in the moment and enjoying it immensely looking back on it. There are some notes on words and how naming something can guide us and a little invitation for the new year and how to get on a waitlist for Kate's latest offering. This is a fun and relatively short episode.

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Subscribe to the Mind, Body, and Soil Podcast

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Resources:

Crown Shyness

MBS episode with Ed Roberson

MBS episode with Erin Pata

MBS episode with Anthony Gustin

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In this episode Kate is joined by author Rebecca Clarren to explore her book Cost of Free Land; Jews, Lakota, and an American Inheritance. The Cost of Free Land explores an entwined history; one of Rebecca’s Jewish ancestors and their land in South Dakota and the Lakota that had been forced off that land by the US government. In the podcast, Rebecca explores the profound role of storytelling and history in shaping cultural narratives across different communities within the broader tapestry of history in America - touching on both the stories passed down through her family and the stories she uncovers through the course of the book in speaking with members of the Lakota Nation and uncovering history. They discuss the importance of the stories that are told and those that remain untold, considering their lasting impact on future generations and how personal and cultural narratives intertwine to inform our understanding of the present. Throughout, the deep complexities, and atrocities, of history and the intergenerational effects of historical events are explored - illuminating the stories we may not have heard in classrooms or textbooks and what actions and responsibilities we can take as we work towards healing. 

Find Rebecca Clarren:

The Cost of Free Land: Jews, Lakota, and an American Inheritance

Instagram: @rclarren

Website

Resources Mentioned: 

Reconciliation Rising

Indian Land Tenure Foundation

Landback

Books Mentioned:

Hitler’s American Model by James Whitman

Learning from the Germans by Susan Neiman

Caste by Isabel Wilkerson

Control by Adam Rutherford

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