Moms of Medicine

 Connect with Moms of Medicine:
- Instagram @moms_of_medicine
- [email protected]

Connect with Dr. Suzanne Koven:

- Substack on writing

- Instagram

- Website

Ali reconnects with Dr. Suzanne Koven to talk about the writing life, why clinicians feel compelled to tell stories, and how to start when the blank page feels intimidating. They also discuss the tension between medicine, humanity, and AI, plus the personal experience that became the basis of Suzanne’s upcoming memoir, The Mirror Box.In this episode:

• Suzanne says the first step in writing is to honor the impulse and ask why a story matters now

• She explains why the best entry point is often an unstable moment rather than a huge topic like childhood, equity, or doctor-patient relationships

• She shares her approach to getting words onto the page: capture fragments, trust the unconscious, and do not wait for a perfect outline

• Suzanne breaks down why she relies on deadlines instead of daily word-count routines

• She and Ali talk about how creative thoughts show up during real life, like showering, parenting, walking, or seeing patients

• They discuss the fear of sitting with not knowing, which medicine often trains clinicians to avoid

• Suzanne argues that literature and the humanities belong in medicine because they teach ambiguity, grief, racism, injustice, love, and family dynamics

• The conversation turns to AI, which Suzanne sees as impressive and seductive, but limited because it cannot replace human interpretation, intuition, or reading a patient’s cues

• She describes how burnout can come from being forced to ignore the moments when a clinician wants to pay closer attention and be more human

• Suzanne shares the central event behind The Mirror Box: a fall that ended her primary care practice, followed by a mysterious hand syndrome that changed how she understood herself and her patients

• She reflects on chronic pain, chronic fatigue, disability, and how illness alters identity

• Ali and Suzanne discuss how deeply personal writing becomes a mirror for readers, not a window into the author

• Suzanne revisits Letters to a Young Female Physician and says many of the concerns in that book still feel urgent today, especially sexism, imposter syndrome, pregnancy, and career pressure

Timestamps: (0:00) Catching up after a year and a half away from clinical medicine
(1:15) Why clinicians want to write, and what blocks them at the start
(2:45) Honoring the impulse before trying to write
(4:27) Finding the real story inside a single unstable moment
(5:55) Why writing from a full outline makes boring prose
(7:20) Why writing is not like checking off chart notes
(8:57) Deadlines, not daily quotas, as Suzanne’s writing method
(9:56) John Hersey, notes on the nightstand, and trusting the unconscious
(12:41) Building the reflex to follow a story you cannot yet name
(13:28) The “shitty first draft” and tolerating not knowing
(14:46) Why literature belongs in medical training
(16:37) Suzanne’s concerns about AI in medicine
(18:51) Medicine as more than facts and memorization
(20:02) Burnout, billing, and ignoring the moments that matter
(23:33) Introducing the memoir The Mirror Box
(24:17) What a mirror box is and why the title matters
(25:46) The fall, the broken wrist, and the end of primary care
(27:25) Situation versus story in memoir
(28:19) The strange hand syndrome and the deeper meaning of the diagnosis
(31:43) Chronic pain, chronic fatigue, and difficult-to-diagnose illness
(33:26) Looking back at how she may have practiced differently
(38:32) Whether retirement and identity loss shaped the illness narrative
(41:27) How disability and trauma alter identity
(42:18) Why personal writing works as a mirror for readers
(46:02) Publishing a deeply personal book without shame
(47:23) Wanting the book to help patients and clinicians
(48:25) What still feels urgent from Letters to a Young Female Physician
(50:35) The Mirror Box publication date and preorder details
(51:32) Suzanne’s new Substack, Practice, for health professionals who love stories
(53:17) Closing thanks and final reflections

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In this conversation, Ali and Shani revisit the realities of burnout, perfectionism, and rebuilding a career in medicine in a way that actually fits your life. Shani shares how closing her practice, going part time, and coaching women in medicine all connect to one idea: you do not have to wait for some future milestone to feel joy. We discuss practical mindset tools for handling difficult moments, how to reframe failure and sunk cost thinking, and why small daily actions matter more than waiting for the “right” time to change.

Key topics

• Shani shares what has changed since her last visit, including selling her practice in January and continuing to work part time as a retina specialist.
• In this episode, she explains why closing a practice is not automatically a failure and how it can actually create more alignment and joy.
• We discuss the concept of duality and how two things can be true at once, like being worried about a patient complication and still being fully present with your kids at Disneyland.
• Shani breaks down a step-by-step approach for handling stressful moments: 
  • feel the feelings
  • separate facts from fiction
  • create a plan
  • trust your decisions
• She explains the “arrival fallacy” and why so many physicians keep postponing joy until after the next exam, promotion, publication, or career milestone.
• We talk about making goals smaller and more specific so progress feels achievable and worth celebrating along the way.
• Shani reflects on her own burnout experience, including ending up in the ER, and uses The Gap and the Gain to show how the same story can be framed as shame or growth.
• In this episode, she emphasizes that burnout is largely system driven, but there is still a portion within your control, especially around boundaries, mindset, and rest.
• She shares practical ways she recovered, including slowing down, going part time, journaling, yoga, friendship, and creative work.
• We discuss why people know what would help them feel better yet still self-sabotage, often because of fear, guilt, perfectionism, or identity shifts.
• Shani closes with the idea that saying yes to yourself strengthens your boundaries and helps you show up better for patients, kids, and partners.

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Key topics

• In this episode, Susan explains that getting pregnant with Nicholas took about a year, similar to her experience conceiving Maddie, but for different reasons.
• She shares that after Maddie’s birth she had prolonged bleeding, which led to a DNC after a retained piece of placenta was found.
• Susan describes how that earlier procedure likely contributed to Asherman syndrome, with significant scar tissue in the uterus discovered during fertility workup.
• We discuss the repeated procedures she needed to clear scar tissue, including use of a Foley balloon to keep the uterus open while it healed.
• Susan talks about the emotional stress of fertility treatment while starting her first attending job and trying to manage clinic schedules, OR time, and appointments.
• She reflects on how hard it was to feel like a responsible new attending while also dealing with fertility care and early pregnancy visits.
• Susan compares postpartum anxiety with her first baby to the second time around, saying she was less overwhelmed, less intrusive-thought driven, and more able to recognize hard phases as temporary.
• She talks how the second baby changed the logistics of parenting, especially with a toddler already at home and less free time to ruminate.
• We discuss the difference between emotional and logistical difficulty when returning to work, including the intense feelings around daycare dropoff the first time.
• Susan explains how her family planned childcare coverage around the reality of daycare sickness by splitting parental leave and saving time for sick days.
• She talks through the weekly division of labor at home, including dropoffs, pickups, bottle prep, meals, and the constant negotiation between flexibility and structure.
• Susan shares that outsourcing more tasks, like laundry, feels like the next step, even though she still struggles with guilt about paying for help.
• Susan discusses how hard it can be to accept help with tasks you are technically capable of doing yourself.
• Susan says one of the biggest mindset shifts has been redefining what a successful day looks like, especially when parenting young children and working long hours.
• She names watching her two children interact as one of the most meaningful parts of parenting now.
• Susan also reflects on the strange, awe-inspiring biology of motherhood, including thinking about the eggs that existed in her body long before her children were born.

Timestamps

00:00 - Reconnecting with Susan and introducing the second-baby conversation

00:41 - Nicholas turns one and the family keeps his birthday low-key

01:30 - Getting pregnant with Nicholas took another long road

03:47 - The postpartum bleeding after Maddie and the retained placenta

04:44 - Fertility testing leads to an unexpected diagnosis

05:18 - Discovering scar tissue and Asherman syndrome

06:14 - Multiple procedures with Foley balloons to reopen the uterus

07:16 - What it felt like to hear grim fertility statistics at nearly 40

08:32 - Managing pregnancy while starting a new attending job

09:47 - Balancing fertility appointments with clinic days and OR scheduling

10:47 - Why pregnancy felt hard to fully believe until much later

12:36 - Nicholas arrives and the second postpartum experience begins

13:02 - Less anxiety, fewer intrusive thoughts, and more emotional ease

14:28 - Why the second baby phase felt more peaceful overall

15:19 - Postpartum anxiety, vigilance, and intrusive thoughts

16:39 - Breastfeeding with less pressure the second time around

18:21 - The emotional pain of first daycare dropoff

19:41 - Why returning to work was harder logistically than emotionally

20:58 - Leaving a child at daycare versus leaving with familiar help

23:57 - Leave policy discussion gets cut from the conversation

24:57 - Why childcare planning starts with backup support

25:56 - Splitting parental leave and saving time for sick days

27:22 - Weekly dropoff and pickup coordination between parents

28:16 - The daily battle over meals, bottles, and night versus morning tasks

31:17 - Why outsourcing laundry feels like a realistic next step

32:31 - Hiring help for meal prep and folding laundry, and still feeling weird about it

35:29 - Relearning that not every productive task is the right task

36:27 - Redefining a successful day beyond housework and to-do lists

37:32 - Cleaning as a way to regain control in a chaotic season

38:29 - Favorite and least favorite parts of parenting

39:19 - Watching siblings interact and the wonder of family biology

40:40 - The “baby store” joke and closing thoughts

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Finally sharing about the day Colin was born!

Timestamps

00:00 - Introducing Colin’s birth story and the weekend that led up to it
 01:00 - Why the induction was scheduled around 37 weeks
 02:00 - A calm morning with Connor before heading to daycare
 03:00 - Boston rush hour versus the chaos of natural labor
 04:00 - Checking in at the hospital and the first emotional moment with the OB team
 05:00 - Crying when kindness hit harder than strength
 06:00 - Why she chose to proceed with induction despite grief
 07:00 - What “birth plan” meant in this context
 08:00 - Wearing her dad’s Patriots hat and wanting an epidural ASAP
 09:00 - Reflections on epidurals, pain, and her first labor with Connor
 10:00 - Starting the induction and wanting to be a passenger this time
 11:00 - Cytotec, Foley balloon, and contractions that got things moving
 12:00 - Her husband points out they do not need to wait for pain before requesting the epidural
 13:00 - Her outpatient OB’s unusual commitment to seeing her for every prenatal visit
 14:00 - How thoughtful communication and data-driven care shaped the pregnancy
 15:00 - Her OB’s support behind the scenes, including tumor board advocacy
 16:00 - Brief Pitocin trial and the baby’s immediate reaction
 17:00 - Watching TV, laughing, and keeping the room light during labor
 18:00 - The surprise baby-name vote and the fun of not knowing the sex
 19:00 - Checking the ICU schedule just in case birth complications sent her there
 20:00 - Pressure builds and the team realizes the baby is crowning
 21:00 - Waiting for the OB to arrive before pushing
 22:00 - Colin is born and the room fills with tears and emotion
 23:00 - Why pregnancy felt emotionally distant and uncertain
 24:00 - Seeing the baby on ultrasound and struggling with chemo-related worry
 25:00 - How not knowing the sex helped her stay detached and hopeful
 26:00 - Colin arrives healthy, despite the cord being wrapped twice
 27:00 - Naming Colin Robert and honoring her dad through the middle name
 28:00 - Telling family the baby is a boy and heading to postpartum recovery
 29:00 - Post-birth CT and MRI scans while still processing the cancer
 30:00 - Crying in the MRI and the strain of high highs and low lows
 31:00 - Why she does not believe grief and trauma can always be neatly processed
 32:00 - Family meeting Colin and the reminder that life keeps moving
 33:00 - Watching both boys grow and comparing first-time parenting to second-time parenting
 34:00 - Colin’s bright, social personality and the sense that he brought light into the family
 35:00 - Looking back on cancer during pregnancy as an unexpected blessing
 36:00 - Closing gratitude for Colin, Connor, and the listeners

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 Summary

In this episode, I talk about grieving my dad's death while preparing for the birth of my son and navigating cancer treatment. 

Key topics

• Coping with grief after losing a parent
• Balancing emotional pain with joyful moments
• Preparing for childbirth amidst health challenges
• The significance of meaningful keepsakes and rituals
• The coexistence of sadness and happiness in life

 Keywords

grief, motherhood, cancer, resilience, personal story, loss, emotional strength, life challenges

Chapters

00:00 Introduction and overview of the episode
00:28 Personal reflection on the impact of losing her father
01:21 The challenge of coping with grief in daily life
02:21 The unpredictability of grief and emotional responses
03:19 A moment of humor during a difficult day
04:49 The significance of photos and memories
05:48 Managing cancer pain while preparing for childbirth
07:12 Medical check-up and reassurance about the baby
08:54 The innocence of children and their impact on grief
09:33 Scheduling conflicts between birth and funeral arrangements
11:22 Deciding on the timing of induction and funeral
12:46 Making the most of last family moments before birth
14:24 The significance of meaningful keepsakes and symbols
16:32 Carrying a piece of her father with her during labor
17:54 Conclusion and upcoming episode focus

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In this episode, I talk about my experience with my father’s death, navigating difficult conversations, and how my medical background both challenged and supported me during this time.

Main Topics Covered:

• The reasons behind my hiatus
• The significance of storytelling for connection, reflection, and emotional resilience
• Walking through the emotional and logistical experience of my father’s death in the hospital
• Challenges of end-of-life conversations within my family and the impact of medical burnout
• Lessons I learned about planning for chronic illness, death, and the importance of having honest, compassionate discussions
• The emotional aftermath, including feelings of grief, guilt, and gratitude
• The cathartic process of sharing my story and the future of my podcast

Timestamps: 

00:00 - Introduction: Why I stepped back 
 02:00 - The healing power of storytelling in connecting with others
 03:30 - Navigating personal grief while balancing a medical career
 05:00 - The moments leading to my father’s death
 07:00 - The hard realities of end-of-life decisions and family discussions
 09:00 - The emotional toll of seeing a loved one suffer and die
 11:00 - The impact of healthcare burnout on personal and family moments
 13:00 - Reflections on medical planning, directives, and difficult conversations
 15:00 - The experience of loss and feelings of guilt and sadness
 17:00 - The significance of presence, love, and memory in grief
 19:00 - Returning to the podcast: sharing my story to heal and connect
 21:00 - Future plans for solo episodes and interviews

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Keywords

cancer treatment, chemotherapy, motherhood, emotional support, personal journey, health challenges, parenting, medical experiences, resilience, community support


Summary

In this solo episode, Dr. Alison Trainor shares her personal journey through cancer treatment while balancing motherhood. She discusses the emotional and physical challenges of chemotherapy, the impact of hair loss, and the support she received from friends and family. Alison reflects on the complexities of navigating her health while being a parent and the importance of community support during difficult times.


Takeaways

The transition from work to medical leave was emotionally challenging.
Chemotherapy brought both physical and emotional struggles.
Hair loss was a significant emotional hurdle during treatment.
Support from friends and family was crucial during this journey.
The experience of being a patient gave insight into patient care.
Navigating treatment while pregnant added complexity to her situation.
The emotional toll of scan results can be overwhelming.
Community support, like meal trains, made a big difference.
It's important to communicate openly about what support is needed.
Finding joy in small moments with family helped cope with challenges.


Chapters

00:00 Introduction and Personal Update
01:28 Navigating Work and Cancer Diagnosis
05:41 Chemotherapy Regimen and Initial Experiences
12:27 Emotional and Physical Challenges of Treatment
16:03 Hair Loss and Its Impact
20:13 Adjusting to Public Perception and Normalcy
23:02 Additional Treatment Considerations and Reflections
26:20 Navigating the Emotional Landscape of Illness
34:07 The Impact of Community Support
47:39 Finding Meaning in Difficult Times

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Summary

In this conversation, Ali and Polly reflect on the past year since their last chat, discussing personal growth, work-life balance, and the challenges of parenting. Polly shares her experiences with returning to work, navigating childcare, and the impact of illness on their family. They delve into the pressures of the medical profession, the importance of mental health support, and the benefits of couples therapy. The discussion also touches on family planning and the considerations that come with it, particularly in light of Polly's husband's health. Overall, the conversation highlights the complexities of parenting, relationships, and self-care.

Takeaways

• Polly has experienced significant personal growth over the past year.
• Finding a balance between work and family life is crucial for well-being.
• Childcare can provide valuable socialization and learning opportunities for children.
• Illnesses in daycare can be challenging but are often part of the experience.
• The pressure to show up in the medical field can lead to neglecting personal health.
• Therapy and support systems have been vital for Polly's mental health journey.
• Communication is key in maintaining a healthy relationship, especially during stressful times.
• Considering family size involves weighing personal desires against practical realities.
• The experience of parenting can evoke nostalgia and a desire for more children.
• It's important to discuss and normalize the challenges of postpartum mental health.

Keywords
parenting, mental health, work-life balance, childcare, couples therapy, family planning, postpartum anxiety, child development, daycare challenges, personal growth

Chapters
00:00
Reflecting on Growth and Change

02:45
Finding Balance in Work and Family Life

05:44
Navigating Childcare and Developmental Milestones

08:50
The Challenges of Illness in Daycare

11:29
The Pressure to Show Up in Medicine

14:20
Mental Health Journey and Support Systems

17:28
Couples Therapy and Communication

20:36
Considering Family Size and Future Plans

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Summary

In this conversation, Dr. Jenn Gates-Nassar shares her journey as a pediatric resident, balancing the demands of her medical training with motherhood. She discusses her motivations for pursuing medicine, the challenges of being a resident with young children, and the emotional toll of caring for sick kids. Dr. Gates-Nassar also highlights the importance of advocacy in public health, the impact of adverse childhood experiences on long-term health, and the challenges posed by misinformation in healthcare. Throughout the discussion, she reflects on her aspirations for the future and the ongoing learning process in medicine.

Takeaways

• Dr. Gates-Nassar is a second-year pediatric resident at Mount Sinai.
• She balances her demanding residency with being a mother to two young girls.
• Her journey into medicine was influenced by her family's public health background.
• She emphasizes the importance of reliable childcare for working parents.
• Guilt when away from her children but recognizes the need for stable caregivers.
• She discusses the emotional challenges of being a pediatric resident.
• Advocacy and public health are significant aspects of her career aspirations.
• Adverse childhood experiences can have lasting impacts on health outcomes.
• Misinformation in healthcare is a growing concern for pediatricians.

Time stamps

00:00
Introduction and Background

03:01
Journey into Medicine

05:57
Balancing Family and Residency

09:00
Navigating Parenthood and Guilt

11:58
Career Aspirations in Pediatrics

15:12
Challenges in Pediatric Care

17:53
Addressing Systemic Barriers

21:05
Misinformation and Public Health Advocacy

27:29
Balancing Clinical Work and Personal Life

31:03
Navigating Parenthood and Medical Training

34:14
Advice for Future Parents in Medicine

38:06
Influences and Inspirations in Medicine

43:24
Experiences and Challenges in Residency

48:45
The Ongoing Journey of Learning in Medicine

keywords

pediatrics, residency, motherhood, public health, advocacy, work-life balance, adverse childhood experiences, healthcare challenges, physician insights, medical training

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