Ukraine’s economy is both hurting and defying expectations. The International Monetary Fund (IMF) estimates that GDP will shrink by 35% this year and inflation is running at 24%. Yet slowly and grimly the country’s economy has adapted to war—and seems to be growing again. What can and should the long march back to normalcy look like?

On this week’s podcast, hosts Mike Bird, Soumaya Keynes and Alice Fulwood are joined by our European economics editor Christian Odendahl and our Europe correspondent Matt Steinglass, who is in Ukraine, to discuss the country’s economic future. They hear from Yuriy Ryzhenkov, the boss of Metinvest, Ukraine’s largest steel company and the owner of the factory that became the site of a deadly siege in Mariupol, about how the firm is adapting. And Vladyslav Rashkovan, the alternate executive director at the IMF responsible for Ukraine, outlines the key areas Western powers should be thinking about in terms of their plans to offer reconstruction aid to the country.

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