Morbid Instinct

In this episode, the hosts discuss the first episode of the documentary series 'Catching Killers' which focuses on the Green River Killer. They explore topics such as the killer's narcissistic tendencies, the emotional impact on investigators, advancements in forensic technology, and the difficulty of catching serial killers. They also discuss the killer's personal life, motivation, and lack of conscience. The hosts reflect on the challenges of passing polygraph tests and the inevitability of serial killers getting caught. Overall, the episode provides insights into the mindset and actions of serial killers and the efforts to bring them to justice. In this conversation, the hosts discuss plea bargains and the death penalty, expressing frustration with the use of plea bargains in cases like that of Gary Ridgway. They debate the ethics of the death penalty and the use of tax dollars to support convicted criminals. The conditions in American prisons are also discussed, with comparisons to prisons in other countries. The career of Detective Dave Reichert, the lead investigator in the Green River Killer case, is highlighted. The conversation concludes with a discussion on the challenges of solving serial killer cases and the importance of recognizing the victims.

Takeaways

• Serial killers often exhibit narcissistic tendencies and lack empathy for their victims.
• The emotional impact on investigators can be significant, and they may feel guilt for not catching the killer sooner.
• Advancements in forensic technology, such as DNA testing, have made it easier to catch serial killers.
• Serial killers often manipulate and deceive others, including law enforcement and their partners.
• Passing a polygraph test does not necessarily indicate innocence, as serial killers can lie convincingly and lack emotional responses.
• Serial killers often push the limits of their crimes, testing how much they can get away with before getting caught. Plea bargains and the death penalty are topics of debate, with differing opinions on their use in criminal cases.
• Conditions in American prisons are discussed, with concerns raised about the use of tax dollars to support convicted criminals.
• The career of Detective Dave Reichert, the lead investigator in the Green River Killer case, is highlighted.
• The challenges of solving serial killer cases and the importance of recognizing the victims are emphasized.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction and Change of Topic

01:00 Background of the Green River Killer

02:01 Discussion on Serial Killers' Narcissistic Tendencies

03:18 The Witness and the Investigation

04:21 Confusion and Correction

05:09 Discussion on Serial Killers' Choice of Victims

06:06 Personal Connection to the Cases

07:04 The Number of Victims and Emotional Impact on Investigators

08:16 Advancements in Forensic Technology

09:19 The Guilt of Law Enforcement

10:05 Serial Killers' Justification and Lack of Empathy

11:06 Serial Killers' Relationships and Manipulation

12:23 Emotional Impact on Investigators

13:10 The Difficulty of Catching Serial Killers

14:01 The High Body Count and Unidentified Victims

17:01 Discussion on the Killer's Personal Life

18:01 The Killer's Motivation and Lack of Conscience

19:00 The Killer's Arrests and DNA Evidence

20:12 The Difficulty of Passing Polygraph Tests

21:23 Serial Killers' Manipulation and Testing Limits

23:20 Serial Killers' Lack of Emotion and Guilt

25:45 The Inevitability of Serial Killers Getting Caught

26:40 Discussion on Plea Bargains and Death Penalty

27:11 The Case of Gary Ridgway

28:08 Debate on Death Penalty and Tax Dollars

29:27 Conditions in American Prisons

30:19 Career of Detective Dave Reichert

32:46 Challenges of Solving Serial Killer Cases

33:13 Recognition of the Victims

36:23 Discussion on Naming the Perpetrator

38:09 Method of Strangulation

40:20 Conclusion and Preview of Next Episode

In this episode of Morbid Instinct, Jeremy, Josh, Colette, and Elaine delve into the chilling mind of Jeffrey Dahmer, as featured in the Netflix docuseries Conversations with a Killer: The Jeffrey Dahmer Tapes. The series is built around recorded interviews between Dahmer and his defense attorney, Wendy Patrickus, where he openly discusses his gruesome crimes.

The discussion focuses on Dahmer's distinct lack of empathy compared to other serial killers, noting his terrifying calmness and honesty when confessing to his acts of murder, necrophilia, and cannibalism. The hosts debate whether his behavior stemmed from a fear of abandonment (wanting to keep his victims with him forever) or pure narcissism. They critique the massive failures of law enforcement, particularly the incident where police returned a drugged, 14-year-old victim (Konerak Sinthasomphone) to Dahmer's apartment despite neighbors' pleas. The crew also touches on the "zombie" experiments Dahmer conducted on his victims, his eventual murder in prison by Christopher Scarver, and the disturbing reality that he seemed to enjoy the notoriety.

Key Highlights
[02:27] The Attorney Tapes: The hosts discuss the unique nature of the series, which relies heavily on tapes recorded by Dahmer's young defense attorney, Wendy Patrickus, to whom he confessed everything because he knew the evidence against him was overwhelming.
[08:44] The Zombie Experiments: A gruesome discussion on Dahmer's attempt to create "zombies" by drilling into victims' skulls and injecting acid, driven by his desire to have a submissive partner who would never leave him.
[10:24] The Tony Hughes Case: The crew highlights the tragedy of Tony Hughes, a deaf victim whom Dahmer seemingly had a genuine connection with, suggesting that Hughes' decision to leave for the night triggered Dahmer's abandonment issues and led to the murder.
[14:40] Police Failure: The hosts express their outrage at the Milwaukee police officers who returned a 14-year-old boy to Dahmer's custody after he had escaped, dismissing neighbors' concerns and accepting Dahmer's explanation that it was a "lovers' quarrel."
[16:35] Living with the Dead: The crew marvels at the horrifying conditions of Dahmer's small apartment, noting that he lived surrounded by decomposing body parts and acid barrels for months, with neighbors frequently complaining about the smell.
[22:28] Death in Prison: A discussion on Dahmer's death in 1994, where he was bludgeoned by fellow inmate Christopher Scarver in the prison gym—an ironic end given that Dahmer's first murder involved bludgeoning a victim with a barbell.

In this episode of Morbid Instinct, Jeremy, Josh, Colette, and Elaine take on one of the most high-profile missing persons cases in history: the disappearance of Madeleine McCann. The crew reviews the Netflix docuseries that chronicles the 2007 abduction of the 3-year-old girl from her family's vacation apartment in Praia da Luz, Portugal.

The discussion is a mix of empathy for the parents and frustration with their decisions, particularly leaving their children alone in an unlocked apartment while dining at a nearby restaurant. The hosts heavily criticize the Portuguese police for their mishandling of the investigation, focusing on suspects like Robert Murat solely due to his helpfulness and later the parents themselves, Kate and Gerry McCann. They also discuss the controversial role of the media, the reliability of sniffer dogs (who alerted to blood and cadaver scent in the apartment and rental car), and the disturbing possibility of human trafficking. The episode concludes with a look at the newest suspect, Christian Brückner, a German sex offender linked to the area, and the grim realization that while Madeleine may never be found, the search continues.

Key Highlights
[04:10] The Parents' Mistake: The hosts debate the decision by Kate and Gerry McCann to leave their three young children alone in an unlocked apartment while they ate dinner, agreeing it was a lapse in judgment that opened the door for tragedy.
[19:26] The Robert Murat Witch Hunt: A critique of the investigation's initial focus on Robert Murat, a local British resident who was vilified by the press simply for trying to be helpful as a translator, highlighting the dangers of media speculation.
[26:08] The Sniffer Dogs: A heated discussion on the use of cadaver and blood dogs, which alerted to scents in the McCanns' apartment and rental car. The crew questions the reliability of this evidence given the lack of corroborating DNA and the contamination of the crime scene. [38:13] Police Incompetence: The hosts slam the Portuguese police, particularly Gonçalo Amaral, for failing to secure the crime scene, pursuing dead-end theories, and prematurely blaming the parents instead of following leads on potential abductors.
[47:34] The New Suspect: The crew discusses the recent development involving Christian Brückner, a German national with a history of sex crimes who was living near the resort at the time, and the new evidence found in his van that has prosecutors believing Madeleine was murdered.
[53:49] Human Trafficking Theory: The group explores the terrifying possibility that Madeleine was taken by a sophisticated trafficking ring, citing suspicious sightings and the proximity to the ocean as a potential escape route to Morocco.

In this episode of Morbid Instinct, Jeremy, Josh, Colette, and Elaine travel internationally to discuss the chilling Netflix docuseries House of Secrets: The Burari Deaths. The series investigates the mysterious deaths of 11 family members found hanging in their home in Delhi, India, in 2018.

The discussion centers on the two main theories: a mass suicide pact or a ritual gone wrong (accidental death). The hosts debate the role of the family's "patriarch," Lalit, who was believed to be possessed by the spirit of his deceased father. They analyze the contents of the diaries found in the house, which detailed the "Badh Tapasya" ritual (imitating a banyan tree) that the family was performing when they died. The crew expresses their shock at the cultural nuances, such as the strict obedience to the male head of the household, which likely contributed to the entire family—including children—following Lalit's instructions without question. They also touch on the media frenzy surrounding the case and the heartbreaking task of the lone surviving family member who had to identify the bodies.

Key Highlights
[02:42] Suicide vs. Accident: The hosts debate whether the deaths were a mass suicide or an accident, noting that the family had made preparations for the next day (like soaking chickpeas), suggesting they expected to survive the ritual.
[05:22] The Patriarch's Influence: A discussion on Lalit, the son who took over as head of the family after his father died. The crew explores his history of trauma (a bike accident and an attack where he was set on fire) and how he convinced the family he was channeling his father's spirit.
[08:19] The Diaries: The crucial evidence that changed the hosts' perspectives: the 11 diaries found in the house, which documented the family's activities and the specific instructions for the ritual over an 11-year period.
[09:25] The Banyan Tree Ritual: The crew discusses the bizarre nature of the ritual, where the family members hung in a formation resembling the roots of a banyan tree, believing it would bring them salvation or a spiritual experience, not death.
[19:03] The Survivors' Trauma: A somber reflection on the devastation faced by the police officers who first entered the scene and the surviving family member who had to cremate 11 relatives at once.
[23:08] Shared Psychosis: The hosts agree that the most plausible explanation is "shared psychosis" (folie à deux), where Lalit's delusions were adopted by the entire family due to their isolation and his dominant role.

In this episode of Morbid Instinct, Jeremy, Josh, Colette, and Elaine review the Netflix docuseries Crime Scene: The Times Square Killer. The series investigates the gruesome murders committed by Richard Cottingham, also known as the "Torso Killer," against the backdrop of the seedy, porn-filled landscape of Times Square in the 1970s and 80s.

The discussion is mixed, with the hosts critiquing the documentary for spending too much time (specifically the entire second episode) focusing on the history of the sex industry in New York rather than the killer himself. They debate Cottingham's motives, noting his evolution from brutalizing young girls to targeting sex workers, and the disturbing "trophy room" he kept in his house. The crew also touches on the shocking revelation that Cottingham has confessed to over 100 murders (though only 11 are confirmed), his narcissistic need for notoriety, and the chilling fact that he was a family man working a normal job at Blue Cross Blue Shield while committing these atrocities.

Key Highlights
[02:08] Too Much Filler: The hosts express frustration that the documentary spent an excessive amount of time detailing the history of prostitution and porn in Times Square, feeling it detracted from the focus on the actual killer.
[05:23] The Torso Killer: A gruesome discussion on Cottingham's MO, specifically his tendency to dismember victims (cutting off heads and hands) to prevent identification, which earned him his nickname.
[09:02] 100 Murders?: The crew debates the validity of Cottingham's claim that he killed between 80 and 100 women, with some hosts skeptical that he could have gotten away with so many without leaving more evidence.
[21:16] The Trophy Room: A disturbing detail about the room in Cottingham's house where he kept items belonging to his victims, which he locked away from his family, proving his ability to compartmentalize his life.
[22:16] The Brave Coworker: The hosts praise the coworker who testified against Cottingham, providing a diagram Cottingham drew of the hotel where the murders took place, despite Cottingham's intimidating behavior at work.
[26:48] Living Better than Homeless: A moment of frustration as the crew notes that Cottingham, despite his horrific crimes, is living a relatively comfortable life in prison (eating well, as evidenced by his weight gain) compared to homeless people on the street.

In this episode of Morbid Instinct, Jeremy, Josh, Colette, and Elaine delve into the mind of one of history's most notorious serial killers, Ted Bundy, as featured in the Netflix docuseries Conversations with a Killer: The Ted Bundy Tapes. The series is built around death row interviews conducted by journalists Stephen Michaud and Hugh Aynesworth, where Bundy talks about his crimes in the third person.

The discussion focuses on Bundy's extreme narcissism and manipulative nature, which he maintained until the very end. The hosts analyze how he used his charm and intelligence (or perceived intelligence) to fool those around him, including his own mother and wife, Carole Ann Boone. They critique his courtroom antics, such as acting as his own lawyer and proposing to Boone on the stand, seeing these as desperate attempts to control the narrative. The crew also touches on his escapes from custody, the chilling "bite mark" evidence that sealed his fate, and his final, desperate confession to 30 murders in a bid to delay his execution. They conclude by reflecting on the tragedy of his victims and the relief that justice was finally served.

Key Highlights
[03:47] Speaking in the Third Person: The hosts discuss the pivotal moment when the journalists suggested Bundy talk about the crimes hypothetically ("if I were the guy"), which unlocked his narcissism and led him to detail his methods without technically confessing.
[06:33] The First Heartbreak: A deep dive into the theory that Bundy's killing spree was triggered by a breakup with his college girlfriend, Diane, and that his victims were chosen because they resembled her (long dark hair parted in the middle).
[09:02] The Escapes: The crew expresses disbelief at Bundy's escapes, particularly jumping out of a courthouse library window in Aspen because he wasn't handcuffed, highlighting the lax security and racial bias of the time.
[11:03] Sabotaging His Defense: A critique of Bundy's decision to represent himself in court, where his arrogance led him to cross-examine witnesses about his own crimes, ultimately alienating the jury and sabotaging his case.
[26:08] The Bite Mark: The hosts discuss the crucial piece of evidence—the distinct bite mark left on Lisa Levy's body—which matched Bundy's teeth perfectly and was instrumental in his conviction.
[49:09] The One That Got Away: A mention of Carol DaRonch, one of the few women who escaped Bundy's clutches, and the mixed emotions of relief and survivor's guilt she likely faced knowing how many others didn't make it.

In this episode of Morbid Instinct, Jeremy, Josh, Colette, and Elaine dive into the Netflix docuseries The Sons of Sam: A Descent Into Darkness. The series re-examines the notorious "Son of Sam" serial killer case from the 1970s, focusing on journalist Maury Terry's lifelong investigation to prove that David Berkowitz did not act alone.

The discussion centers on the compelling evidence presented by Terry, suggesting the involvement of a satanic cult known as "The Children" (linked to "The Process"). The hosts debate the theory that Berkowitz was part of a group of killers, including John and Michael Carr (the actual "Sons of Sam" Carr), pointing to discrepancies in police sketches and the fact that Berkowitz later admitted to being part of a group but refused to name names out of fear. They also touch on the tragic obsession that consumed Maury Terry's life, the questionable ethics of journalism in the case, and the eerie connections to other crimes like the Manson Family murders and the Arlis Perry case. Ultimately, the crew agrees that while the cult theory has some holes, the idea of multiple shooters is highly plausible, given the varying descriptions and timelines of the attacks.

Key Highlights
[02:40] Maury Terry's Obsession: Jeremy highlights the journalist Maury Terry, who dedicated 40 years of his life to proving the multiple shooter theory, often being right about details that police dismissed, such as the involvement of the Carr brothers.
[06:33] The Sketches Don't Match: Josh points out a major flaw in the lone gunman theory: none of the police sketches based on eyewitness accounts looked like David Berkowitz, but they bore striking resemblances to John and Michael Carr.
[08:43] The Cult Connection: The hosts discuss the theory that the "Son of Sam" murders were carried out by a cult, noting the satanic symbols found by Terry and the suspicious deaths of alleged accomplices like the Carr brothers shortly after Berkowitz's arrest.
[11:08] Arlis Perry Murder: A chilling connection is made to the murder of Arlis Perry in a Stanford church, a case Berkowitz hinted at in a letter, which ultimately pointed to a security guard linked to the same cult network.
[21:06] The Letters: Colette reads excerpts from the disturbing letters sent by the "Son of Sam," analyzing the references to "Wicked King Wicker" and "John Wheaties" (John Carr), which seem to implicate others in the crimes.
[29:00] Police Cover-Up?: The crew debates whether the NYPD rushed to close the case once they caught Berkowitz to calm the public panic, ignoring evidence of accomplices to avoid a complex and terrifying conspiracy investigation.

In this episode of Morbid Instinct, Jeremy, Josh, Colette, and Elaine tackle the heartbreaking case of Chris Watts, as detailed in the Netflix documentary American Murder: The Family Next Door. The hosts discuss the shocking murders of Shannan Watts (who was pregnant) and her two young daughters, Bella and Celeste, by the man who was supposed to protect them.

The discussion is filled with outrage and disbelief at Chris Watts' callousness. The crew dissects his behavior, from his emotionless media interviews while his family was "missing" to his attempts to blame Shannan for the children's deaths during his initial confession. They highlight the chilling details, such as the neighbor who immediately noticed Chris acting strangely and the heartbreaking "Daddy, no!" plea from his daughter Bella. The hosts also touch on the "nice guy" facade Chris maintained, the role of his mistress, and the devastating impact on Shannan's family. They debate his true motives—whether he simply wanted a "fresh start" with his new girlfriend or if he was a sociopath all along—and express relief that he is locked away for life, even if he avoided the death penalty.

Key Highlights
[02:14] Blaming the Victim: The hosts express their disgust at Chris Watts' initial attempt to blame Shannan for the murders of the children, calling it a desperate and cowardly move to save his own skin.
[03:28] The Polygraph Failure: A discussion on the pivotal moment when Chris failed his polygraph test, with the crew noting that he seemed arrogant enough to believe he could beat it, only to crumble when confronted with the results.
[05:44] Lack of Emotion: The crew points out the stark contrast between a worried husband and Chris's demeanor during the search, noting his bizarre calmness and focus on mundane tasks like going to the gym while his family was missing.
[08:25] "Daddy, No!": A somber reflection on the tragic detail revealed in the confession where his daughter Bella pleaded for her life after witnessing her sister's murder, a moment that haunts the hosts.
[15:22] The Observant Neighbor: The hosts praise the neighbor's surveillance footage and his immediate suspicion of Chris, noting that his keen observation about Chris's unusual behavior (like backing the truck into the driveway) was a key piece of early evidence.
[28:38] The Guilty Plea: A debate on Chris's decision to plead guilty to avoid the death penalty, with some hosts feeling he deserved the ultimate punishment while others believe life in prison (potentially in solitary confinement) is a fittingly miserable fate.

In this episode of Morbid Instinct, Jeremy, Josh, Colette, and Elaine tackle the tragic and perplexing story of NFL star Aaron Hernandez, as detailed in the Netflix docuseries Killer Inside: The Mind of Aaron Hernandez. The series explores Hernandez's rise to fame as a tight end for the New England Patriots and his shocking fall from grace after being convicted of the murder of Odin Lloyd.

The discussion centers on the potential factors that led to Hernandez's violent behavior, with a heavy focus on the severe CTE (Chronic Traumatic Encephalopathy) found in his brain after his death. The hosts debate how much his brain injury, compounded by a history of abuse and drug use, contributed to his impulsivity and paranoia. They also criticize the docuseries for its heavy-handed focus on Hernandez's sexuality, questioning whether it was a relevant motive for his crimes or just sensationalism. The crew touches on the enabling culture of college football, the "double life" Hernandez led, and the chilling lack of remorse he showed during his first trial compared to his emotional reaction to the acquittal in his second trial.

Key Highlights
[01:57] The Draft Slide: Jeremy notes that despite being more talented than fellow draft pick Rob Gronkowski, Hernandez fell to the fourth round due to character concerns that were already evident in college.
[07:00] Sexuality as Motive?: The hosts criticize the documentary for repeatedly bringing up Hernandez's alleged closeted sexuality as a potential motive for the murder of Odin Lloyd, arguing it felt speculative and irrelevant.
[09:36] CTE and Brain Damage: A serious discussion on the impact of CTE, with the crew noting that Hernandez had one of the most severe cases ever seen in someone his age (27), likely affecting his impulse control and emotional stability.
[16:04] Camera Evidence: The hosts are baffled by Hernandez's stupidity in committing crimes while his own home surveillance system was recording, capturing footage of him holding a gun and interacting with accomplices shortly after the murder.
[23:08] Paranoia: Colette brings up testimony from Hernandez's agent about his increasing paranoia, suggesting he felt threatened and unsafe, which may have fueled his violent reactions.
[34:56] Sloppy Crime Scene: The crew mocks the "sloppiness" of the Odin Lloyd murder, pointing out the overwhelming evidence left behind, including cell phone tracking, shell casings found in a rental car (stuck to gum), and surveillance footage.

In this episode of Morbid Instinct, Jeremy, Josh, Colette, and Elaine review the Peacock documentary series John Wayne Gacy: Devil in Disguise. The series explores the life and crimes of John Wayne Gacy, who murdered at least 33 young men and boys in the 1970s, burying many of them in the crawl space of his home.

The discussion delves into Gacy's deceptive nature, contrasting his public persona as a charming community leader and "Pogo the Clown" with his private life as a sadistic killer. The hosts criticize Gacy's constant lying and attempts to manipulate the narrative even while in prison, including his bizarre claim of having a "multiple personality" named Jack. They also debate the theory that Gacy didn't act alone, citing the logistics of burying so many bodies and the potential involvement of associates like Philip Paske and John Rossi who were never charged. The crew expresses frustration with the police's failure to investigate sooner (often dismissing missing persons as runaways) and the lingering mystery of the unidentified victims. They conclude by discussing Gacy's execution, agreeing that he deserved the death penalty and expressing relief that he can no longer harm anyone.

Key Highlights
[02:08] The Clown Persona: Josh admits he initially thought Gacy committed his murders while dressed as a clown, a common misconception fueled by media coverage, though the hosts clarify he used the persona for community events, not the crimes themselves.
[03:42] Pathological Liar: The crew mocks Gacy's interview tapes, noting how he would constantly flip-flop between confessing to the murders and then claiming innocence or blaming others, showcasing his manipulative and narcissistic personality.
[07:05] Accomplice Theory: A heated discussion on the likelihood that Gacy had help, particularly in digging the trenches for the bodies, with the hosts suspecting that associates like Rossi and Cram were involved but Gacy never ratted them out.
[16:18] The First Search Warrant: Colette highlights the tragedy of Robert Piest, whose disappearance finally triggered a search warrant that led to the discovery of the bodies, making him the catalyst for Gacy's capture but sadly one of the last victims found.
[28:49] The Crawl Space Map: Jeremy points out a damning piece of evidence: Gacy was able to draw a map of exactly where the bodies were buried in his crawl space, proving his guilt despite his claims of ignorance.
[46:48] Execution Malfunction: The hosts discuss the malfunction during Gacy's execution where the lethal injection clogged, agreeing that any pain he felt was nothing compared to the suffering he inflicted on his 33+ victims.