The debate is heating up—DC and Silicon Valley are deeply split over DOGE.

This week on More or Less, Jessica and Brit hold down the fort (while the husbands ski Alaska’s powder) with media heavyweights Ben Smith of Semafor and Nick Carlson of Dynamo.

This week’s big swings:

• The Signal Group Chat Scandal

• DOGE divides: Silicon Valley cheers efficiency, DC smells ideology

• China’s BYD overtakes Tesla: Is Elon losing supporters?

Plus, whispers of fake AI revenue, ChatGPT’s image wizardry, and a nod to The Information’s SABEW haul.

Featuring:

1) Ben Smith: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ben-smith-04b1403/

2) Nicholas Carlson: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nicholasmcarlson/

We’re also on ↓

X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspod

Instagram: https://instagram.com/moreorless

Spotify: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/moreorlesspod

Connect with us here:

1) Ben Smith: https://x.com/semaforben

2) Nicholas Carlson: https://x.com/nichcarlson

3) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin

4) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin

5) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin

6) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit

00:00 Trailer

01:29 Our guests and our husband clones

08:23 The Signal group chat scandal

12:01 The Atlantic's marketing

19:25 Ethics impact

23:27 DOGE divides

35:06 Trump, the tech giants and pragmatism

39:35 Wiz deal, arms race,

42:44 11X and straight up fraud

49:50 ChatGPT's Image Generator

51:41 Using AI: what would JD Vance do?

55:40 AI and journalism side by side

57:02 Outro

Silicon Valley’s heating up—and we’ve got the inside scoop.

This week on More or Less, Jessica, Dave, Sam, and Brit unpack a whirlwind of drama: Google’s $32B Wiz grab, rippling’s spy scandal with Deel, and Gwyneth Paltrow’s bold intimacy coordinator diss. Dave’s back from YC Demo Day, where AI-driven startups are still fetching 25 to 40 million despite shaky traction.

Here’s what’s cooking:

• Google’s Wiz deal—will Trump’s FTC let it fly?

• Rippling vs. Deel: a spy caught in a Slack honeypot

• Gwyneth says no to intimacy coordinators—culture’s shifting

• Brit’s new AI-built app, Guarding, locks down kids’ usernames

Plus, Solana’s PR flop, NVIDIA’s chip wars, and Elon’s billion-dollar X raise.

We’re also on ↓

X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspod

Instagram: https://instagram.com/moreorless

Spotify: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/moreorlesspod

Connect with us here:

1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin

2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin

3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin

4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit

00:00 Trailer

01:10 No introductions needed

03:34 The New York Times Ethics Department

07:06 Solana video disaster

13:16 Gwyneth Paltrow vs intimacy coordinator

17:03 Google acquires Wiz for $32 billion

18:59 Trump administration's tech leverage

30:08 Brit's app Guardling (higuardling.com)

35:06 The Silicon Valley Spy Scandal!

46:34 Are there VC spies?

50:53 Elon raises a billion for X

52:19 Drive-through AI and going bankrupt

56:29 Sam Lessin has left the chat

59:03 Outro

On this week's episode of More or Less, Jessica, Dave, Sam, and Brit tackle a chaotic week hashing out Waymo’s Peninsula push, Sam’s million-dollar Mars wager with Brit, and YC’s agentic AI craze—fresh from ski season vibes and office debates.

Also on the deck this episode:

• Waymo’s expansion has Jessica ditching Lyft (almost)

• Sam vs. Brit: a million bucks on Mars colonization odds

• TikTok’s sale—Oracle’s in, but ByteDance might still call the shots

• Anthropic’s CEO says AI will write all code soon—engineers aren’t having it.

Plus, recession drums beat louder, Jessica’s tennis mag Racket swings big, and Sam’s still trolling with billboards.

We’re also on ↓

X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspod

Instagram: https://instagram.com/moreorless

Spotify: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/moreorlesspod

Connect with us here:

1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin

2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin

3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin

4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit

00:00 Trailer + Introduction

01:46 Sam has another billboard!

04:23 Waymo news

09:12 New space age, flying motorcycles, tech CEOs

14:21 Starlink, rockets, the space war use case

19:56 More or Less bet: humans on Mars by 2040?

24:34 Can this entity afford TikTok?

27:53 Recession? Who cares?

35:32 Startups are recession-proof

42:30 Anthropic and vibe coding

44:55 Billionaire free caltrain

45:29 What's on our Instagram explore pages?

47:42 Tennis magazine

Markets move fast—sometimes too fast.

This week, Jessica, Dave, Sam, and Brit dissect Trump’s crypto reserve play, Nvidia’s AI stumbles, and how nostalgia is sneaking back into everything. Recorded amidst ski trips, surf plans, and a billboard that’s trolling AI hype, the crew unpacks it all.

Also on deck:

• Core Weave’s $1.7B AI cloud grab signals robotics is the new VC darling

• Reports of Discord going public?

Plus, Jessica’s surf weekend drama, Sam’s “Trump Make Poor” bit, and a hot take on why live sports might be overrated. It’s chaos, it’s volatility, it’s Episode 89 of More or Less.

We’re also on ↓

X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspod

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Spotify: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/moreorlesspod

Connect with us here:

1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin

2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin

3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin

4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit

00:00 Trailer

01:10 Make startups weird again

02:24 The Brit brand theory

04:01 TikTok, DeepSeek and the nostalgia supercycle

05:48 Do people even watch live sports anymore?

08:36 Running Point and feminist humor

10:12 "New old, old new" companies

16:26 "Spam" Lessin's billboard

20:35 Driverless Waymo on the 101

21:59 Wall Street Journal tech layoffs

28:17 Trump make rich, Trump McPoor

34:52 AI, AGI and the Top Gun Theory

37:40 IPOs, massages, robot sex workers

45:16 Girls' surf trip with margaritas and poker

47:46 Indian Wells!

52:18 Outro

What happens when the biggest VCs, LPs, and founders cram into one basketball stadium?

Deals get made, gossip flies, and Dave and Brit Morin find themselves in a very questionable hotel situation.

Reporting live from LA, they break down everything happening at Upfront Summit—or at least, everything they overheard by the coffee station.

On deck this episode:

• is Bezos finally embracing his role as a media mogul?

• Meta’s $200B spend vs. Grok’s lightning-fast scale

• what really went down in Silicon Valley?

All that, plus Dave’s latest case for why everyone should quit social media, in this Episode #88 of More or Less.

We’re also on ↓

X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspod

Instagram: https://instagram.com/moreorless

Spotify: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/moreorlesspod

Connect with us here:

1) Sam Lessin: ⁠https://x.com/lessin⁠

2) Dave Morin: ⁠https://x.com/davemorin⁠

3) Jessica Lessin: ⁠https://x.com/Jessicalessin⁠

4) Brit Morin: ⁠https://x.com/brit⁠

00:00 Intro

01:13 Live from the Upfront Summit

03:04 Intuit and taxes

06:37 Bezo's media shift

12:26 Blantant bias and framing

18:53 Meme coins are fascinating

25:39 Make Instagram great again

32:44 Big Tech and Trump

34:19 Google search traffic is down

36:35 AI segment: Grok

45:08 The AI markets meme narrative

55:40 Time Women of the Year Gala

59:04 Outro

Elon Musk trolled Jessica on X—at least, that’s how it seems.

Was it just a marketing stunt for Grok 3, with The Information as the sacrificial lamb?

Plus, Humane’s AI pin flopped, but HP swooped in for a $160M “rescue.”

What does this mean for the AI hardware race? Sam has some strong opinions (spoiler: he’s not a fan of AI printers).

And the internet’s latest rabbit hole: Could Jack Dorsey actually be Satoshi?

Social media is unraveling, AI is becoming hyper-personalized (maybe too much so), and the next wave of consumer tech is either flopping or skyrocketing at warp speed.

All that—plus the latest chaos in AI, Big Tech, and beyond—on Episode 87 of More or Less.

We’re also on ↓

X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspod

Instagram: https://instagram.com/moreorless

Spotify: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/moreorlesspod

Connect with us here:

1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin

2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin

3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin

4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit

(00:00:00) Introduction

(00:01:20) Bay Area ski week

(00:02:38) Yoga

(00:06:43) Grok 3 vs The Information

(00:12:26) Best deep research model?

(00:19:30) iOS bug and social media isolation

(00:23:42) iPhone 16e and status symbols

(00:27:49) Digital drugs

(00:33:21) Do brands even matter anymore?

(00:43:00) Humane fire sale and AI Printers?

(00:47:07) Founders who can land a plane

(00:53:31) Lost Meta "international spy technology"

(00:55:40) More Or Less correspondents

(00:56:50) Jack created Bitcoin?

(01:00:32) Outro

Elon Musk just threw OpenAI into chaos with a $97 billion bid for its nonprofit arm. But does he actually want it—or is it just for the memes?

Meanwhile, Slow Ventures has secured $60M to bet on the future of creators, and Brit and Jessica predict the rise of serial influencers.

Oh, and Google Maps is broken. Seriously.

All that and more in Episode #86 of More or Less.

We’re also on ↓

X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspod

Instagram: https://instagram.com/moreorless

Spotify: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/moreorlesspod

Connect with us here:

1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin

2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin

3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin

4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit

(00:00:00) Trailer

(00:01:07) Dressing well

(00:03:38) Startups, hybrid work

(00:11:47) Efficiency and productivity

(00:18:51) Apple Intelligence

(00:20:44) Google Maps

(00:22:31) Elon's OpenAI bid

(00:33:26) Who buys TikTok?

(00:35:27) Bill Gates

(00:41:31) Investing on people and adventure capital

(00:50:30) 360 deals and musicians

(00:52:34) Investing in niche creators

(00:56:39) Super Bowl LIX and Kendrick Lamar

(01:01:55) Outro

Sam and Dave had been toying with the idea of making $$ from meme mania, but after last week’s pod, they may have taken it a little too seriously.

They launched Jelly-My-Jelly ($JELLYJELLY), a meme coin that shot up to $250M—thanks, in part, to Venmo co-founder Iqram Magdon-Ismail.

What happened next? Tune in to Episode #85 to find out.

We’re also on ↓

X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspod

Instagram: https://instagram.com/moreorless

Spotify: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/moreorlesspod

Connect with us here:

1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin

2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin

3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin

4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit

(00:00:00) Trailer

(00:01:01) Ski race and poker

(00:03:00) Dave and Sam's newly-launched project

(00:13:19) Fartcoin is serious

(00:19:11) Everything will be tokenized

(00:33:04) PvP system

(00:36:47) Regulation side, Coinbase, jellyjelly

(00:49:16) DOGE against the US Government?

(01:06:56) Pop culture corner

(01:09:52) Outro

DeepSeek—a name no one had even heard of until last week—has since given Big Tech a run for its money.

Soon after the news, they torched $1 trillion from Nvidia and other giants' market caps.

And while AI researchers call it “distillation,” aren’t LLMs recursive by design? Everyone’s distilling someone else’s work.

The real question: Did DeepSeek actually crack efficient training? Or just drop the right meme at the right time?

We’re also on ↓

X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspod

Instagram: https://instagram.com/moreorless

Spotify: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/moreorlesspod

Connect with us here:

1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin

2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin

3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin

4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit

(00:00:00) Trailer

(00:01:03) Under the weather

(00:01:43) News overload

(00:05:16) Subscriptions, trust, parasocial relationships

(00:14:21) DeepSeek and meme warfare

(00:29:09) Meme coins and the future of digital economy

(00:39:03) Regulation and trends

(00:44:04) AI is the tale of two cities

(00:49:40) Meta's strategic position

(00:55:29) DeepSeek questions

(00:59:13) Sam's watchlist

(01:01:35) Outro

Stargate—a $500 billion AI venture straight from Trump 2.0's White House—has all the drama of a sci-fi blockbuster.

But instead of aliens (like in the movie from 30 years ago), we’ve got Elon Musk, Satya Nadella, and Sam Altman trading shots.

“SoftBank doesn’t have the money,” Elon posted on X, while Microsoft’s Nadella shot back, “I’m good for my $80 billion.” Meanwhile, Altman’s keeping things spicy with OpenAI already breaking ground.

Also on the docket:

• $TRUMP token,

• the inauguration at Capitol Hill, and

• if SoftBank buys, must you sell?

We’re also on ↓

X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspod

Instagram: https://instagram.com/moreorless

Spotify: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/moreorlesspod

Connect with us here:

1) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin

2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin

3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin

4) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit