Mormon History Podcast – Gospel Tangents – Mormon History Podcast

Rick Bennett asks the hard questions about gender and race within independent fundamentalism. Do women bless the sick? The Erickson family—Joshua, Melissa, and Charlotte—discuss the reality of “patriarchal” polygamy, refuting the stereotype of oppressed, silent wives. Melissa Erickson opens up about her personal experience performing healing blessings by the laying on of hands. The group also tackles the controversial topic of Black priesthood holders in fundamentalism, their support for the inclusive “Missouri Temple” group, and Melissa’s unique scriptural interpretation of the “One Man” rule in D&C 132.

Don’t miss our other conversations on Mormon fundamentalism: https://gospeltangents.com/denominations/fundamentalim/

The Ericksons introduce a massive new scripture project for Independent Mormons and all Restorationists. We discuss the contentious issue of priesthood authority outside the LDS Church, and explain why they believe authority can exist in multiple branches of the Restoration simultaneously.

Don’t miss our other conversations on Mormon fundamentalism: https://gospeltangents.com/denominations/fundamentalim/

Discussion of a new “triple combination” project spearheaded by Drew Briney. This edition includes the 1840 Book of Mormon text, formatted in paragraphs, and contains nearly 100 unpublished revelations from Joseph Smith and John Taylor.

The new scriptures are annotated to show every substantial change in the text over history. It excludes “press releases” like the Manifestos but includes the Lectures on Faith and the full Wentworth Letter.

Rick asks how the Ericksons claim authority without belonging to an established group like the AUB or Kingstons. Joshua argues that authority is broadly distributed, citing the Book of Mormon where Lehi and Jeremiah held authority simultaneously without coordinating.

A discussion on the fundamentalist view that the priesthood exists independently of the corporate church structure. Joshua shares his experience of being rebaptized and reordained to align with scriptural requirements for married priesthood holders.

Why independents view rebaptism as a renewable covenant and a preparation for special events (like temple dedications), rather than a one-time event3536.

The group discusses the difficulty of unifying the various Restoration branches, noting that polygamy is often the “third rail” that prevents full unity

The largest group of Mormon polygamists don’t belong to a group! I’m talking to the Ericksons: Joshua, Charlotte, & Melissa who purchased the Sister Wives home from Kody Brown and his 4 wives from the TLC channel. We’ll talk about the resources independent Mormon fundamentalists can participate in, how they got their authority to do polygamy, and talk about priesthood in their family. Check out our conversation…

Don’t miss our interviews with Mormon polygamists: https://gospeltangents.com/denominations/fundamentalim/

I sat down with the Erickson family—Joshua, Melissa, and Charlotte—independent Mormon fundamentalists who purchased the Lehi, Utah home formerly owned by Kody Brown of TLC’s Sister Wives. The Ericksons discuss their journey from mainstream LDS  Church membership to independent polygamy, their blog Speaking of Polygamy, and their efforts to restore biblical feasts and practices.

The Ericksons, who now live in the home designed for polygamy discuss the unique architecture, which includes connected apartments that facilitate communal living.

The family shares their transition out of the LDS Church. While they were excommunicated, they describe the experience as cordial and devoid of hard feelings. They soon found the Zarahemla Foundation, a non-denominational fellowship for restoration believers.

Joshua explains that fundamentalism isn’t just about polygamy; it is about preserving original restoration principles. They discuss the misconception that leaving the church means losing opportunities to serve, arguing they have found even more ways to be “anxiously engaged”.

We did a deep dive into why the Ericksons celebrate ancient Israelite holidays like Passover, the Feast of Tabernacles, and Yom Kippur. Joshua provides scriptural justification from Zechariah 14 and the JST of Luke 22, arguing these feasts are for all of Israel, not just the Jews.

The family discusses their wine-making classes. They adhere to D&C 89 and Section 27, believing wine should be “of your own make” for sacraments, rather than water.

Introduction to a broad coalition of independent fundamentalists who provide a “soft landing” and fellowship for those questioning mainstream changes.

The Ericksons recount their participation in the independent temple built near Humansville, Missouri, describing the celestial room’s fiber-optic star field and the dedication they felt among independent groups.

Rick Bennett and Kurt Francom announce the launch of the Gospel Tangents Network and its new community forum, LDS Faith Journeys.org, designed to support members looking for support with history, doctrine, social issues, etc. The hosts discuss reframing the concept of a “faith crisis” into a “faith journey” to remove shame, with Kurt offering his “scuba gear on a bicycle” analogy to explain how personal trauma or baggage can hinder religious practice. The conversation covers Kurt’s experience as a bishop with a counselor who left the Church, his involvement in Warrior Heart boot camps, and the dangers of publicizing polygamy denial or the book Visions of Glory. Finally, Rick pays tribute to the late podcaster Troy Ables and previews upcoming guests for the network, hopefully including Janice Allred.

Rick Bennett welcomes Kurt Francom, host of the Leading Saints podcast, to announce the launch of the Gospel Tangents Network. Rick introduces the network’s 2nd website, LDSFaithJourneys.org, a forum designed for members to discuss history, doctrine, social issues and other issues where members needs support.

Rick and Kurt discuss the terminology used for those struggling with the Church. Kurt argues that the term “Faith Crisis” carries a heavy, negative connotation of brokenness, whereas “Faith Journey” suggests a natural evolution of faith. Kurt emphasizes that avoiding the “crisis” label helps remove shame, which is often a tool of the adversary. Rick hopes people don’t stay in crisis very long and move onto more productive faith journeys.

Kurt introduces a metaphor for religious struggle: imagining the Gospel as a functional bicycle that some members try to ride while wearing heavy “scuba gear” (trauma, baggage, or specific upbringing.) He suggests that for some, stepping away or “hitting the reset button” is necessary to remove the gear before they can successfully ride the bike again.

Kurt shares a personal story from his time as a bishop regarding his second counselor, an attorney and capable leader. After reading Richard Bushman’s Rough Stone Rolling in a BYU religion class, the counselor struggled with the “raw and real history” of Joseph Smith and eventually removed his name from Church records. This experience taught Kurt that just because the “standard formula” works for him, it does not mean it works for everyone.

Responding to a listener question, Kurt discusses his involvement with Warrior Heart, a non-denominational Christian men’s retreat. He describes it as a place to “strip away all of the baggage” of faith tradition and allow men to focus solely on their relationship with God.

Rick asks Kurt about the trend of members being excommunicated for claiming Joseph Smith did not practice polygamy. Kurt argues that while people are free to believe what they want, using a public platform to claim Brigham Young was a liar while Joseph was innocent creates a movement the Church must address. Rick adds that D&C 132 and the sealing power are so intertwined that rejecting Joseph’s polygamy creates a massive theological problem. Rick doesn’t agree with polygamy revisionists and encourages leaders to avoid taking away membership. He shares a conversation with a Jewish friend who said it is impossible to be excommunicated from the Jewish religion, even for murder. “Let God be the judge.” Rick wishes the LDS Church moved closer to that admonition.

A listener asks about the book Visions of Glory. Is it helpful or harmful? Kurt describes it as harmful because it creates unhealthy narratives about the “mechanics of heaven” and end-times obsession. He notes that it consistently sells well, alongside Under the Banner of Heaven, which shows a cultural fascination with these topics.

Rick hopes to have a future episode involving the Succession Crisis, featuring figures like James Strang and William Bickerton. They conclude by encouraging listeners to register at the new website https://ldsfaithjourneys.org to ask questions and find support.

I was surprised to learn that Troy Ables passed away on Thursday, Jan 15, 2026. In this special episode I’m sharing a previously unpublished interview from October 2020 to honor the memory of Troy Ables, a YouTuber and podcaster known for “The Last Dispensation,” who passed away suddenly around the age of 54. In a reversal of roles, Troy interviews Rick, delving into Rick’s personal history, his views on controversial church topics, and the evolution of Mormon historical transparency.

The conversation highlights the generational differences in how Latter-day Saints engage with church literature. Troy recounts devouring Bruce R. McConkie’s “Mormon Doctrine” and “The Miracle of Forgiveness” as a youth, while I admitted to avoiding them, viewing them as sources of unnecessary guilt or false doctrine. We discuss how the Church has shifted from the politically conservative era of the 1980s to a modern era characterized by greater openness, exemplified by the release of the Gospel Topics Essays.

A significant portion of the interview focuses on plural marriage. I tried to articulate a clear distinction between the sealing power, which I support and finds beautiful, and the practice of polygamy, which I’m not a fan of. Specific issues such as Joseph Smith’s marriage to Fanny Alger and the secrecy kept from Emma Smith as reasons for discomfort. I don’t agree with the apologetic defense that Joseph was merely sealing families together, noting the sexual component and the sneakiness involved.

I maintain my testimony while acknowledging historical difficulties. I have a problem with the “we don’t know” defense used by some apologists, arguing that we do know certain uncomfortable facts—such as Joseph Smith being a “terrible money manager” regarding the Kirtland Safety Society. Instead, it seems better to accept Joseph Smith as an inspired but imperfect human being.

The discussion also touches on the treatment of intellectuals and dissidents, such as the “September Six.” The Church has been inconsistent approach to discipline and reinstatement, contrasting the rebaptism of Maxine Hanks with the denial of Lavina Fielding Anderson. I hope that the Church is becoming more tolerant of diverse voices than it has in the past. The contributions of scholars like Matt Harris and Margaret Toscano deserve great praise.

Origin and Purpose

The essays were initiated under Church Historian Elder Marlin Jensen and continued by his successor, Elder Steven E. Snow. They were created as a direct response to the explosion of the internet, where members were encountering disturbing information about Church history that was causing them to lose their testimonies. The goal was to provide fficial good information” on difficult subjects such as the translation of the Book of Mormon, race and the priesthood, and the Mountain Meadows Massacre.

The “Quiet” Launch

Rick explains that the Church purposely did not advertise the essays when they were first published (roughly between 2012 and 2015). According to Elder Snow, leadership wanted the answers to be available for those who were struggling, but they feared that broadcasting the essays might cause testimony loss among members who were not previously aware of the controversies.

Handling Polygamy

A significant portion of the discussion focuses on the three essays regarding polygamy. Rick gives the Church credit for admitting to difficult facts, such as Joseph Smith’s practice of polyandry (marrying women who were already married) and his marriage to teenage brides. However, Rick notes that some language appeared “softened” by leadership; for example, the essays described a 14-year-old bride as being “in her 15th year” to make it sound less jarring.

Overall Assessment

Despite some critiques, Rick views the essays as “leaps and bounds better” than what was available in previous decades. He mentions that historian Matt Harris (along with Margaret Toscano) has written a book critiquing the essays, highlighting that while they are a vast improvement, there are still areas where the essays are weak or where the Church is hesitant to fully engage.

The most shocking part of Exponent II‘s history is the organization’s “FBI embezzlement story.” In 2017, the board discovered that a trusted treasurer and close friend had embezzled hundreds of thousands of dollars over a six-year period. The theft was hidden because the money—often retreat deposits and subscription fees—was occasionally covered privately by the treasurer’s family to prevent the retreat centers from reporting non-payment. The discovery led to a federal investigation, and the treasurer eventually served 17 months in federal prison. This crisis forced Exponent II to professionalize its operations, moving away from a purely trust-based system to one utilizing outside auditors, forensic accounting, and transparent financial reporting.

Don’t miss our other conversations about Mormon feminism: https://gospeltangents.com/lds_theology/feminism/

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Award-winning authors Katie Rich and Heather Sundal discuss the 50-year history of Exponent II. The organization has evolved from its 1970s roots into a modern, inclusive platform that now explicitly welcomes trans and non-binary individuals, as well as other gender minorities marginalized within the LDS Church. The authors highlight how their new book acts as an anthology, curating thousands of blog posts and magazine issues to show the organization’s growth from a focus on traditional feminism to a broader “Mormon continuum” of belief and identity.

The authors also highlights the literary heart of the organization through specific essays:

Despite the financial betrayal, the authors emphasize that the community’s response was one of overwhelming generosity. From Laurel Thatcher Ulrich offering immediate financial help to the journal Dialogue paying Exponent II a $10,000 guest-editing fee, the organization’s survival proved that its “baby” was too important to the Mormon feminist community to let fail.

Don’t miss our other conversations about Mormon feminism: https://gospeltangents.com/lds_theology/feminism/

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Award-winning authors Katie Rich and Heather Sundahl explore 2 controversies: Ordain Women & Equal Rights Amendment in the sometimes turbulent history of Exponent II during the late 20th century and its evolution into the digital age. The discussion centers on the Equal Rights Amendment (ERA) and how it marked a “watershed moment” for Mormon feminism. While many LDS women initially supported the ERA, the Church’s stance shifted after Phyllis Schlafly convinced leadership that the amendment was a threat to the family. This led to a massive, coordinated effort where the church deployed 13,000 women to the 1977 International Women’s Year meeting in Salt Lake City to vote against nearly every proposal, including protections for victims of rape and childhood education.

Don’t miss our other conversations about Mormon feminism: https://gospeltangents.com/lds_theology/feminism/

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A central figure in this era was Sonia Johnson, a “firebrand” who founded Mormons for ERA and publicly challenged the church’s covert lobbying efforts. Her excommunication in 1979 was particularly shocking because it was based on her political activism and public reach rather than moral failings. The authors note that the Church often distinguishes between private belief and public dissent; while many shared Sonia’s views, her large platform made her a target for disciplinary action.

The conversation also highlights how Exponent II has navigated these tensions by prioritizing “community over ideological purity”. Unlike more direct activist groups like Ordained Women, Exponent II provides a platform for a wide spectrum of voices, from those seeking ordination to those who find power in traditional roles. This is exemplified in their “priesthood issue,” which contrasted the experiences of women who felt marginalized by their inability to give blessings with those who, like Diane Pritchette, believe women already possess inherent spiritual power. The authors conclude by discussing the historical precedent of Mormon women giving blessings by the laying on of hands—a practice that was common until the 1930s and continues in private settings today, despite official discouragement.

We highlighted the distinction between direct activist movements and the platform-based approach of Exponent II. While the two share common threads, Exponent 2 remaines a space for diverse perspectives rather than an organization that took an official stance on the ordination of women.

The authors describe Ordain Women as a movement focused on direct activism, whereas Exponent II is a feminist platform that hosts a “Mormon continuum” of voices, including those who are active, inactive, ex-Mormon, or never Mormon. Many early profiles for the Ordain Women movement, which utilized a style similar to the “I’m a Mormon” campaign, were actually Exponent II bloggers.

Kate Kelly, the founder of Ordain Women, participated in Exponent II retreats. She was featured on a panel that specifically discussed women and the priesthood, showcasing how the organization fostered dialogue on controversial topics without mandating a “universal stance”.

A specific quarterly issue of the Exponent 2 magazine was dedicated to the priesthood to explore the topic’s complexity67. This issue highlighted two contrasting viewpoints:

◦ Abby Hansen, a member of Ordain Women, shared the pain of feeling disconnected from spiritual power, specifically the difficulty of needing to seek blessings from “random” home teachers while her husband was away in the military.

◦ A Relief Society president in Boston, recounted an instance where she laid her hands on a woman’s head to give a blessing during a crisis, operating under the belief that women already possess inherent spiritual power and do not need to “agitate” for others to give it to them.

The desire for ordination is often linked to the lost history of Mormon women giving blessings. Women historically performed healings by the laying on of hands until the 1930s, as mentioned by Jonathan Stapley and Kristine Wright. The practice still occurs in private, “unauthorized” settings today among both feminists and traditionalists who feel a spiritual confidence to act in moments of crisis.

Don’t miss our other conversations about Mormon feminism: https://gospeltangents.com/lds_theology/feminism/

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Mormon women led by Claudia Bushman started the Exponent II organization in Boston while her husband Richard Bushman was stake president. Claudia caused waves when she spoke about Mormon feminism and black priesthood ordination in the 1970s before the Equal Rights Amendment & black ordination became bigger issues in the LDS Church. Salt Lake City sent an apostle to shut down the organization. Award winning authors Katie Rich & Heather Sundahl detail these early days of Exponent II in their history of 50 years in the organization. Check out our conversation…

0:00 Meet the Authors

Don’t miss our other conversations about Mormon feminism: https://gospeltangents.com/lds_theology/feminism/

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Award-winning authors Katie Rich and Heather Sundal chronicled the five-decade history of the organization in their book, 50 Years of Exponent II. The story began in July 1974, when a group of LDS women in Boston felt inspired to create a new platform for women’s voices. This inspiration was sparked by the discovery of the original Woman’s Exponent (1872–1914) in Harvard’s Widener Library—a suffragist paper that showcased the complex lives of early Mormon women who balanced faith with activism.

The organization grew out of a successful community project: a guidebook titled Beginners’ Boston. While the local Elders Quorum dismissed the guidebook as a “stinker of an idea,” the Relief Society took it on, eventually selling 23,000 copies! This success provided the women with both the confidence and the funds to launch a more ambitious project: Exponent II. The timing was critical, as the official Relief Society Magazine had been shuttered in 1970 due to the church’s correlation movement, leaving women without an official outlet for their unique perspectives.

However, the publication quickly faced tension with Church leadership in Salt Lake City. In 1975, Area Authority Robert D. Hales met with founder Claudia Bushman, specifically requesting that the paper cease publication because he believed it would “come to no good”. Leadership was particularly concerned about the paper’s hand-drawn art, which they felt looked “subversive,” and Claudia’s public comments in the Boston Globe regarding racial policies in the Church. Later, Apostle L. Tom Perry met with the staff, strongly suggesting they shut down and explicitly stating that Claudia Bushman must resign as editor to avoid the appearance that the paper was an official church publication, given that her husband, Richard Bushman, was the Stake President.

Despite these pressures, the women chose to continue, prioritizing community over ideological purity. When Claudia Bushman eventually resigned, the organization avoided collapse by shifting from a model based on a charismatic leader to a collective, decentralized effort. By focusing on personal narratives rather than a “one-size-fits-all” perspective, Exponent II has remained a vital lifeline for women seeking to explore the complexities of their lives and faith for over fifty years.

Don’t miss our other conversations with Mormon feminism: https://gospeltangents.com/lds_theology/feminism/

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Happy New Year to all the listeners and readers! As we step into 2026, I gave my second annual Gospel Tangents 2025 Book Awards. (Click the link for 2024!) It is the perfect time to look back at the milestones, challenges, and incredible content that defined 2025. While the past year was personally difficult due to several significant health challenges, it was a prolific year for the podcast, featuring 115 episodes!

One of the most fascinating aspects of 2025 was seeing which videos resonated most with the audience. Some of the most-watched content actually came from the archives, proving that great history is timeless. This is 4 of my top 10 list.

The podcast isn’t just about interviews; it’s about highlighting the best scholarship in the field. Here are the standout winners for the 2025 Book Awards:

As we enter our 10th year of Gospel Tangents, there are big things on the horizon. There is a second podcast in the works, likely featuring a more informal YouTube Live format once or twice a month.

However, growth comes with its own hurdles. We are currently about 12 months behind on transcripts1 If you are a fan of the show and want to help preserve these histories, please reach out at Gospel Tangents at gmail dot com to assist with transcribing. Your support on Patreon also remains vital to keeping this project running as we balance a busy production schedule. If you can help me with Instagram and Substack marketing, please reach out, knowing that my budget is extremely tight.

Reviewing a year of history is much like excavating a cave; you never know which artifacts will suddenly catch the light and gain new value, but the effort of digging ensures that the story is never truly lost.

Which of these titles did you like best? AI gave me these:

As we end 2025, I thought I’d share an old interview titled “Bombs in Salt Lake.” This is from my first year with Curt Bench. Curt actually called Mark Hofmann to warn Mark there was a bomber out there, not knowing Mark was the bomber. We’ll discuss Mark Hofmann’s forgeries and murders from 1985, the trial, and more from this 2017 interview. Check out our conversation…

Don’t miss our other conversations on the Hofmann murders & forgeries: https://gospeltangents.com/lds_people_historical/mark-hofmann/

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The late Curt Bench, owner of Benchmark Books, provides a firsthand account of the Mark Hofmann forgery and bombing saga. As a former employee of Deseret Book and a business associate of Hofmann, Bench offers a unique perspective on how a “rock star” document hunter transformed into a cold-blooded killer.

Mark Hofmann established himself by “discovering” sensational documents that seemed to overturn traditional Mormon history. Bench details Hofmann’s incredible versatility, noting he could forge the handwriting of men and women from various eras with haunting accuracy. Notable forgeries discussed include the Salamander Letter, which introduced “folk magic” elements like a white salamander into the First Vision narrative, and the Joseph Smith III blessing, which appeared to confirm RLDS claims regarding succession. Hofmann achieved this by using period paper stolen from libraries and aging his ink with chemical recipes found in forgery manuals.

On October 15, 1985, pipe bombs killed Steve Christensen and Kathy Sheets. In a surreal twist of history, Bench recounts how he actually called Hofmann to warn him after the first explosion, believing his friend might be a target of a business-related attack. Hofmann feigned shock during the call, even as Bench urged him to get his family into hiding. It was only after a third bomb injured Hofmann himself the following day that investigators—and eventually Bench—realized that Hofmann was the perpetrator, not another victim.

The fallout of the Hofmann scandal was immense. Bench explains that Hofmann’s debts, largely tied to a non-existent “McLellin Collection,” drove him to murder as his financial schemes collapsed. The scandal initially caused the Church to restrict access to its archives out of fear and suspicion. However, Bench reflects on the “renaissance” of transparency that followed, noting that the modern era of the Joseph Smith Papers and the Gospel Topics Essays represents a significant shift toward the light of day.

Bench concludes with a deeply personal reflection on trust. Despite being “duped” along with Church leaders, experts, and Hofmann’s own family, Bench decided that he could not live his life in a state of permanent paranoia. He emphasizes the importance of forgiveness and moving forward, as exemplified by Steve Christensen’s father, Mac, who later helped outfit Hofmann’s son for a mission.

Don’t miss our other conversations on the Hofmann murders & forgeries: https://gospeltangents.com/lds_people_historical/mark-hofmann/

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