Mormon Stories Podcast

"View of the Hebrews" is a book first published in 1823 by Ethan Smith of Vermont.  In "View of the Hebrews," Ethan Smith argues (among other things) that the Native Americans were descended from the Lost Ten Tribes of Israel.  This book was so popular that it had a second printing in 1825.  

Mormon General Authorities and apologists have feared "View of the Hebrews" for over a century, starting with B.H. Roberts in the early 1900s.

Why is "View of the Hebrews"  potentially problematic for the Mormon church and the Book of Mormon?  A few reasons:

• Joseph Smith claimed to have come up with the idea for the Book of Mormon the VERY SAME YEAR (1823) that "View of the Hebrews" was first published.  Coincidence?
• Ethan Smith (the author of "View of the Hebrews") was Oliver Cowdery's pastor in Vermont PRIOR to his working with Joseph Smith as Book of Mormon "scribe," and it is certain that Cowdery was familiar with the book.  Coincidence?
• Mormon General Authority and historian B.H. Roberts wrote hundreds of pages doing research on the disturbing similarities between View of the Hebrews and the Book of Mormon.  Later, B.H. Roberts went on to lose his testimony in the historicity of the Book of Mormon.  Coincidence?

Recently, the brilliant Radio Free Mormon decided to read "View of the Hebrews" from cover to cover to see what the "hubub" is all about.  

Join us as we explore the following questions:

• What is View of the Hebrews fundamentally about?
• What are the important similarities and differences between View of the Hebrews and the Book of Mormon?
• Was Ethan Smith's "View of the Hebrews" a source of inspiration for the Book of Mormon?
• What cultural dynamics were at play in upstate New York in the early 1820s that could have influenced BOTH books?
• Are there any direct connections between "View of the Hebrews" and Joseph Smith?
• Why has "View of the Hebrews" caused so much concern for Mormon apologists, from B.H. Roberts to today ? How have Mormon apologists responded to View of the Hebrews?
• Does "View of the Hebrews" present significant, compelling problems for LDS Church and Book of Mormon truth claims?

Chelsea and Nick Homer were both raised as devout Utah Mormons - with all the good and bad this entailed, and both were equally determined to have the perfect Mormon marriage and family.  After meeting at BYU and an extended, careful courtship, Chelsea and Nick were married in the Bountiful temple. Then their Mormon dream immediately began to fray.

Beginning with the wedding night/honeymoon, Chelsea and Nick experienced problems with sexual intimacy, due (in large part) to unhealthy messages they received around sexual "purity" and "modesty" as Mormon teens.  Then, a year into their marriage, Nick began to lose his testimony in the Mormon church - causing Nick and Chelsea to seriously contemplate divorce.

When it became clear that Nick was not going to perform the priesthood blessing for their their firstborn child, Chelsea and Nick decided to courageously post about their situation on her Instagram account, in part to defy the shaming and unhealthy rumors that so often accompany this situation within Mormonism (e.g., "Nick must be into PORN!"). This post was dated September 24, 2017.

Surprisingly to both Chelsea and Nick, a Public Relations employee for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints asked if Chelsea would write a post about this experience for the Church’s Instagram. This post (dated February 7, 2018) can be found here, and to date has 58,947 "likes."  Later, the LDS Church PR department asked Chelsea to author an article about navigating her Mormon mixed-faith marriage as a believing wife.  This heavily correlated article is entitled "Who Do I Choose - God or My Husband? - and was published by lds.org on July 25, 2018.

After these social media posts, Chelsea and Nick immediately began receiving messages, emails, and phone calls from other young Mormon couples also experiencing faith crises and/or mixed-faith marriages.  To help provide support and community for all the young Mormon women who were struggling with faith crises, Chelsea formed on July 31, 2019 a Facebook group entitled "Faith Journey Meetups," which at present has over 2,000 members.  The description of this group is as follows:

Welcome! This is a meetup hub for women who are actively navigating their personal faith journeys anywhere along the LDS belief spectrum. Come, make friends, schedule get-togethers. This is a safe place to find support and turn internet acquaintances into real life friends.

Eventually, Chelsea also lost her faith in the Mormon church, and today Nick and Chelsea are navigating a life of healing, growth, and joy after Mormonism.

This is their story.

Hey Mormon Stories Listeners!

I am planning some super-cool interviews for the newly released "Murder Among the Mormons" documentary (released today on Netflix).  A few SUPER important requests for you all:

• Please watch it ASAP! It's fantastic!
• Please share it with all your believing Mormon family members and friends.  If they are concerned about the content, consider letting them know that:
  1. Richard Turley (former assistant LDS Church historian and head of LDS Church Public Affairs) participates in the documentary, and
  2. The documentary was carefully designed by both Jared and Tyler to be fair/balanced.  In my opinion, the doc is TOTALLY TBM worthy, so please watch it AND tell everyone about it!

I am planning several super cool interviews, including an interview with Directors - Jared Hess and Tyler Measom.  So stay tuned for that!

Here's where I need your help.  I would REALLY love it if you would share with me: a) your reactions to the doc, and b) any questions you have for Jared and Tyler. This will help me make the most of time with them (which I see as precious).  It will also stand as a cool record of progressive and post-Mormon reactions to the film.

Please post your reactions here!

If you want to watch additional coverage of the Mark Hofmann bombings on Mormon Stories Podcast, you can check out the following episodes:

• An interview with Allen D. Roberts and Curt Bench about Mark Hofmann.
• An interview with Brent Metcalfe - personal friend of Mark Hofmann.
• An interview with Sandra Tanner - whose husband Jerald determined that Mark Hofmann was a fraud before any of the LDS Church leaders.

Thank you in advance for your support!  And a HUGE thanks to Jared and Tyler for making a documentary that we ALL can be proud of as Mormons/Ex-Mormons. More soon!

• Do you miss the "spirituality" that you once felt as an active Mormon?
• Have you struggled to find joy/meaning/mental health after losing your Mormon faith?
• Are you still active in the LDS Church, but feeling spiritually empty as of late?

Join me as I assemble am amazing panel of wise humans to discuss "Spirituality After Mormonism." Panelists include Margi Weber Dehlin, Anthony D. Miller, Samantha Shelley (Zelph On The Shelf), and Holly Ashton Wallin.

You will not be disappointed with this amazing lineup of wise humans.

Feel free to bring your own questions, comments, and suggestions!!!!!

Show Notes:

Anthony's lists:

• Books:
  • A New Earth, Eckhart Tolle
  • The Power of Myth, Joseph Campbell / Bill Moyers
  • Braving the Wilderness, Brene Brown
  • Lost Connections, Johann Hari
  • Untamed, Glennon Doyle
  • Everything is Spiritual, Rob Bell
  • Love Wins, Rob Bell
  • The Untethered Soul, Michael A. Singer
  • Searching for Sunday, Rachel Held Evans
  • Secular Buddhism, Noah Rasheta
  • Finding God in the Waves, Mike McHargue
  • This: Becoming Free, Michael Gungor
  • The Heart of Christianity, Marcus Borg
  • Falling Upward, Richard Rohr
  • Universal Christ, Richard Rohr
  • Spiritual Athiest, Nick Senaca Jankel
  • Bathing With God, Glenn Ostlund
  • Waking Up: A Guide to Spirituality Without Religion, Sam Harris
• Podcasts:
  • A Thoughtful Faith, Gina Colvin
  • Almost Awakened, Bill Reel
  • Another Name for Everything, Richard Rohr
  • Bathing with God, Glenn Ostlund
  • Exmormonology, Amy Logan
  • Making Sense, Sam Harris
  • Mormon Sabbatical, Mette Ivie Harrison
  • On Being with Krista Tippett
  • Oprah’s Super Soul Conversations
  • Secular Buddhism, Noah Rasheta
  • The Liturgists Podcast
  • The RobCast, Rob Bell
  • Unlocking Us, Brene Brown
• Other:
  • Sara Hughes-Zabawa's Spiritual Values Exercise

Samantha's Lists

• Books:
  • A New Earth by Eckhart Tolle https://amzn.to/2OidTMZ
  • The Untethered Soul by Michael A. Singer https://amzn.to/3sE6dDm
  • Inner Bonding by Margaret Paul https://amzn.to/3bUcowp
  • Conscious Loving by Gay and Kathlyn Hendricks https://amzn.to/2NOIX7e
  • True Refuge by Tara Brach https://amzn.to/3sG151N
• Podcast:
  • 10% Happier
• Meditation App:
  • Headspace

Holly's Lists:

• Books:
  • A New Earth
  • Mans Search for Meaning
  • The Four Agreements
  • Universal Christ
  • Seat of the Soul
  • The 8 Human Talents
  • Breath
  • UnTamed
  • Tiny Beautiful Things
  • The Awakened Family
  • Big Magic
  • Real Love
• Poetry:
  • Drew Lanham
  • Mary Oliver
  • Rumi
• Podcasts:
  • On BEING
  • Oprah’s Super Soul Sunday
  • Gift of the Mormon Faith Crisis
  • Mormon Stories Podcast
  • Secular Buddhism
  • Another Name for Everything
  • The Resilience Breakthrough
  • UnLocking Us
  • Tara Brach
  • The Meditative Story

Margi's Lists:

• Books
  • A New Earth
  • Untamed
  • Tiny Beautiful Things
  • The Course of Love
  • The Awakened Family
  • Getting the Love You Want
  • Broken Open
  • Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents
  • Magical Journey
• Poetry
  • Mary Oliver
  • David Whyte
  • Andrea Gibson
• Podcasts
  • The Meditative Story
  • A New Earth with Oprah
  • The Living Experiment
  • 10% Happier Podcast

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Join us today on Mormon Stories Podcast as we interview Mike Rinder - former top-level Scientology Executive. Mike was raised a Scientologist, knew L. Ron Hubbard personally, and became David Miscavige's "right hand man" as he lead Scientology's "Office of Special Affairs" (OSA). The OSA handled media and public relations, legal and government relations, and dealing with the "enemies of Scientology."

Mike appeared in the Scientology documentary "Going Clear," as well as in the documentary TV Series "Leah Remini: Scientology and the Aftermath." He currently co-hosts a podcast with Leah Remini called "Scientology: Fair Game."

Hey Mormon Stories Listeners - I need your help!!!! This Friday (9am mountain time) I will be interviewing Mike Rinder - a former high-level leader of the Church of Scientology. I only have an hour with Mike, so I want to spend at least a few minutes of the hour comparing the Mormon church with the Church of Scientology.

To be clear - I have studied Scientology enough to know that it is deeply problematic....from literally kidnapping/imprisoning members, to having members physically beaten, to militantly suing members, etc. In short, I know that Scientology is a brutal, inhumane, super-harmful cult. Consequently, I am also fully aware that any comparison between the Mormon church and the Church of Scientology is deeply fraught. But hear me out.

I once read in Jared Diamond's "Guns, Germs, and Steel" that sometimes the less immediately lethal viruses are often the most harmful viruses overall, primarily BECAUSE they are less deadly than their counterparts. In other words, if a virus is so deadly that it immediately kills its hosts, it has a tougher time spreading, and ultimately harms fewer organisms. Conversely, if a virus doesn't kill its host, but makes its hosts sick enough for a long enough time, the virus can spread much more successfully to a much larger population, and do more harm overall to many more people . Get it?

And so this is where I would like your feedback...and it's only an intellectual exercise. Here is the question:

If the variables we are measuring include: 1) Total human hours extracted from members without fully informed consent (total hours wasted under false pretenses, in a sense), 2) Total abuse/pain/suffering inflicted on humans under false pretenses, and 3) Total $$$ amount fraudulently extracted from its members over the lifetime of the church....again, under false pretenses and without informed consent....

...could an argument be made that the Mormon church, in aggregate, causes more overall harm than the Church of Scientology...in part BECAUSE it is somewhat less severe overall?

Also, what arguments/points am I missing?

Please make your best case below (one way or the other), and I will do my best to incorporate your input into my discussion with Mike Rinder on Friday.

Also, if you have any questions for Mike, please share them below and I will try my best to incorporate them.

THANKS IN ADVANCE!

John Dehlin

P.S. Please know that I KNOW that the Mormon Church does a TON of good in the world (particularly for its members). Believe me....I see that, and I believe that. I am talking about the harm that the Mormon Church causes IN SPITE of all the good it does as well.

Join us as we talk with cult expert Steven Hassan about how to help a loved one who believes in and follows the QAnon conspiracy cult. Questions we will address include:

• What is QAnon?
• Does QAnon qualify as a harmful cult?
• How is QAnon harming people, families, and our nation?
• How can you help a loved one who believes in and follows AQnon, or any other destructive cult?

Dr. Steven Hassan's Reddit AMA (Q&A) at QAnonCasualties entitled "How to Help People Involved in QAnon" can be found here.

Steven's main web site is: Freedom of Mind.

Books Mentioned in Today's Episode:

• Combating Cult Mind Control
• Freedom of Mind: Helping Loved Ones Leave Controlling People, Cults, and Beliefs
• The Cult of Trump

Cult Documentaries Mentioned in Today's Episode:

• • The Vow NXIVM Documentary Series
  • Seduced: Inside the NXIVM Cult
  • The Great Hack
  • The Social Dilemma
  • People You May Know
  • Going Clear
  • Wild, Wild Country
  • 4th Generation Warfare

Is it possible to stay active in the LDS Church in 2021 after....

....learning all of the problematic history... ....becoming an ally for LGBTQ Mormons... ...becoming a feminist... ...becoming an "intellectual Mormon"... and after losing one's orthodox faith?

More importantly, why would anyone WANT to?

In Part 1 of my two-part interview with dear friend and faith transitions coach Jana Spangler, Jana told us the story of her Mormon faith journey, which includes:

• Battling with perfectionism as an LDS teen and young adult.
• Feeling broken and inadequate as a single Mormon woman attending the University Utah, struggling to meet the church's standards of "worthiness."
• Being threatened with an LDS Disciplinary Council be a well-meaning Mormon bishop, and how that actually HELPED turn Jana's life around at the time.
• Finding and marrying Rob - who "checked all the Mormon boxes" at the time.
• Batting with infertility.
• Experiencing self-doubt and depression as a Mormon Mom.
• How Jana's passion for self-improvement and retreats/workshops led to a Mormon faith crisis.
• Jana's shifting views of Christ's atonement, which include absolute, unconditional love.
• Jana's courage to share her testimony struggles with her Holladay, Utah ward and stake.
• How untraditional Mormon podcast hosts, authors, and organizations (such as Bill Reel, Gina Colvin, Dan Wotherspoon, John Dehlin, Thomas Wirthlin McConkie, Sunstone, etc.), along with a supportive husband and understanding church leaders, helped Jana find a way to stay ACTIVE in the LDS Church.
• What factors led Jana to decide to stay active in the LDS Church...for now.

In Part 2, Jana provides a more detailed framework for how others can find a way to remain active in the LDS Church if they so desire, inspired by the works of Richard Rohr and James Fowler (among others).

Is it possible to stay active in the LDS Church in 2021 after....

....learning all of the problematic history... ....becoming an ally for LGBTQ Mormons... ...becoming a feminist... ...becoming an "intellectual Mormon"... and after losing one's orthodox faith?

More importantly, why would anyone WANT to?

In Part 1 of my two-part interview with dear friend and faith transitions coach Jana Spangler, Jana tells us the story of her Mormon faith journey, which includes:

• Battling with perfectionism as an LDS teen and young adult.
• Feeling broken and inadequate as a single Mormon woman attending the University Utah, struggling to meet the church's standards of "worthiness."
• Being threatened with an LDS Disciplinary Council be a well-meaning Mormon bishop, and how that actually HELPED turn Jana's life around at the time.
• Finding and marrying Rob - who "checked all the Mormon boxes" at the time.
• Batting with infertility.
• Experiencing self-doubt and depression as a Mormon Mom.
• How Jana's passion for self-improvement and retreats/workshops led to a Mormon faith crisis.
• Jana's shifting views of Christ's atonement, which include absolute, unconditional love.
• Jana's courage to share her testimony struggles with her Holladay, Utah ward and stake.
• How untraditional Mormon podcast hosts, authors, and organizations (such as Bill Reel, Gina Colvin, Dan Wotherspoon, John Dehlin, Thomas Wirthlin McConkie, Sunstone, etc.), along with a supportive husband and understanding church leaders, helped Jana find a way to stay ACTIVE in the LDS Church.
• What factors led Jana to decide to stay active in the LDS Church...for now.

In Part 2, Jana provides a more detailed framework for how others can find a way to remain active in the LDS Church if they so desire, inspired by the works of Richard Rohr and James Fowler (among others).

Recently, BYU Egyptologist John Gee published an article via the online Mormon apologetic website "The Interpreter" - attacking the scholarship of the Joseph Smith Papers Project, specifically Volume 4 of "The Joseph Smith Papers Revelations and Translations." The article is entitled: "Fantasy and Reality in the Translation of the Book of Abraham."

Gee's main attack targets are recently retired BYU professor Brian Hauglid and current LDS church employee Robin Jensen.

- Why would a BYU professor be attacking the work of the Joseph Smith Papers project - both of which are owned and controlled by the LDS Church?

- What issues are at stake in this battle between old style and new style Mormon apologists?

Join me and Radio Free Mormon on Friday at 11:15am Utah time as we discuss the history and details of this "civil war" within the world of Mormon apologetics.