Welcome to the latest Mumbrellacast, where unfortunately Karl Stefanovic won't be joining us this week.

Instead, we'll make do with the freshest five-piece since Jackson 5: Abe Udy, Tim Burrowes, Eleanor Dickinson, Nathan Jolly, and Lauren Joyce.

If you were wondering why you kept tripping over discarded calculators on your way to work this week, it's because Tuesday marked the end of the financial year -- which means Mumbrella can reveal the winners and losers on the Unmade Index, a Tim Burrowes invention which tracks all the publicly listed media and marketing companies on the stock exchange, and cruelly bundles them into judgmental groups based solely on their performance over the year. Despicable! Anyway, we chat about that.

Tim Duggan co-founded pop culture website Junkee way back when Tiktok was still a Kesha song. This week, he fronted the National Press Club and took a club to the national press, arguing that the entire Australian media ecosystem needs to be protected with tax offsets, social media payments, AI royalties, and government ad money if it is ever going to move off the endangered list and onto the undangered list (not a direct quote).

And this week, former Kyle and Jackie O boss Duncan Campbell did a media tour to promote his new single "It Wasn't Me ft. Shaggy", appearing on the Game Changers Radio and the Quarter Hour podcasts where he spoke freely about his time as a professional Kyle-wrangler -- and distanced himself from the 10-year contract and the decision to network the show into Melbourne. Lauren was Duncan's successor and adds more insider-baseball context to some of his comments -- before putting on a pair of debating gloves and duking it out with a remote Hal Crawford in this week's heated debate (cue sting)!!!

Based on some of Duncan's comments about ARN management's tendency to handle Kyle with baby mitts, Hal and Lauren debate whether or not "on-air talent should be managed with a firm hand". Hal takes the affirmative, Lauren rebuts like the prodigious year-six third-speaker debating champ that she was/is, and everybody listening is the real winner.

Enjoy!