MSU Today with Russ White

This month’s State of the State podcast from Michigan State University’s Institute for Public Policy and Social Research has Matt Grossmann and Arnold Weinfeld from the institute and emeritus economics professor Charley Ballard discussing the state of the national and Michigan economies, UAW contract talks with the Big 3 automakers, the impact of unions in today’s America, Michigan’s new state budget, population loss, and the recent Supreme Court decision on affirmative action.

Conversation Highlights:

(1:25) – “The economy continues to roll along. Whereas a few months ago I would have said a mild recession is more likely than not. Right now, I would say it’s more likely than not that we kind of skirt the edges of a recession.”

(5:57) – “People are still pretty dour about the economy…”

(10:11) – “A part of it is that our economy is doing pretty well. And that means revenue is coming in reasonably well. That’s the remarkable resilience of the American economy.”

(11:29) “There is an effect of full Democratic control on state spending, but it’s actually a lot smaller than you might expect and much smaller than the year-to-year differences due to the overall state of the economy and share of federal money that gets sent.”

(12:09) – “The actual effect is more often the reverse. The more that state governments are able to pass legislation and move the agenda in their direction, the more likely that in the next election they will lose ground rather than gain ground.”

(14:27) – “Many prognosticators on the national scene have listed Gretchen Whitmer as a potential presidential candidate, and I’m pretty sure she’s aware of that.”

(15:17) – “In policy, this has been a very large shift on the scale of state government year-to-year shifts. That is what you’d expect after a prolonged period of lack of control from a party.”

(16:35) – “Michigan is three percent of the national population and two and a half percent of the national economy. We’re in this little life raft floating upon a gigantic ocean of the worldwide economy. And if those waves are big, they’re going to affect our boat.”

(18:55) – “The population of Michigan hasn’t been dropping steadily in this century, it’s just been astonishingly flat.”

(21:03) – “The overall picture is actually we don’t have a higher rate of college graduates leaving the state. After graduating, what we have is a lower rate of college graduates from elsewhere deciding to move into the state. And that is part of a broader pattern where our issues are not as much from the perspective of young people moving away as we hear in the political debate as we have young people not being attracted to Michigan to move from elsewhere.” 

(25:20) – “For one thing, the Supreme Court was more in line with public opinion this term than they were the previous term.”

(27:50) – “Some universities have abandoned legacy admissions. That might, I think in the long run, have more of an effect.”

Listen to “MSU Today with Russ White” on the radio and through Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and wherever you get your shows.

John Ambrose is executive director of admissions at MSU. Dani Vincent and Ndi Sibanda are MSU students. Dani and Ndi are also tour guides for MSU Admissions. 

Ambrose assesses the state of higher education admissions and challenges and opportunities ahead. And the group describes the top stressors for students and parents in the process of preparing their college applications.

They talk about important deadlines in the process and about the importance of parental involvement. And the students talk about why they chose to attend MSU and what they like about being tour guides on campus.

Conversation Highlights:

(2:50) – “Ultimately, it’s a place where you can make mistakes and get up from them. And they don’t hurt as much as when you’re not in college and you make the same mistakes.”

(4:40) – “The landscape is so fraught with pressures right now for my peers and myself when it comes to thinking about the college admissions world.”

(7:33) – “Sometimes I think it’s families’ expectations that are unreasonable.”

(10:43) – “It always comes down to the classes that are offered and what your interests are and, more importantly, the campus.”

(12:30) – “There were so many different factors that played into me deciding to come to MSU.”

(14:59) – “A big stressor for me was applying during the pandemic.”

(24:21) – “Most college applications will begin opening in early August, and a good date to have all of your applications complete by is November 1.”

(26:06) – “One of the key things to pay attention to is the admit rate.”

(27:16) – “It’s critically important that parents be involved in the process.”

(34:18) – “It’s so critically important to be authentically you in the application…utilize the personal statement area to tell us something we don’t know about you. That’s the one thing that really stands out in all applications.”

(40:28) – “The professors at Michigan State are here to not only guide but help correct and be a counselor and a listening ear. But you can’t bring your high school self. You have to bring the young adult self that you want to be and approach them as a young adult. They want you to engage.

Listen to “MSU Today with Russ White” on the radio and through Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and wherever you get your shows.

Laura Rugless is Michigan State University’s inaugural vice president for civil rights and Title IX education and compliance.

In this newly elevated role, which was transitioned from an associate vice president to a vice president position, Rugless will be responsible for leading the institution’s civil rights and Title IX compliance, serving as the university’s Title IX coordinator and building upon MSU’s efforts to cultivate a university community free of discrimination and harassment. The position will oversee the Office of Institutional Equity; the Prevention, Outreach and Education Department; the Resolution Office; the Office of Support and Equity; the equity review officer; and the Americans with Disabilities Act coordinator.

Conversation Highlights:

(1:02) – “During the recruiting process I learned about what’s been happening with the development of the program here over the past several years. And that was really astounding to me. I was really drawn in by that. As I met leadership and members of the OCR team, I really felt like this is the place I should come and help galvanize the approach to civil rights, including Title IX. MSU is doing some really incredible things and yet we know there’s more to do and we can learn how to do it better.”

(3:01) – “We grapple with anything that pertains to civil rights, and we do it through a lens of prevention, and then when there is an incident reported to our office, response and resolution through our processes.”

(6:15) – “We’ve had some really promising results in the Know More survey, which has demonstrated that there is a reduction in the prevalence of relationship violence and sexual misconduct that our university community is reporting through that survey, and that’s exciting. Knowing exactly what we may be doing to help drive those results will be really important.”

(8:33) – “We want our students to know that there are a lot of resources available to them here both to prevent – and should they experience any sort of incident – and to support them through that.”

Listen to “MSU Today with Russ White” on the radio and through Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and wherever you get your shows.

Michigan State University alumnus Frank Tramble is Duke University’s inaugural vice president for Communications, Marketing and Public Affairs.

Tramble describes his career path from MSU telemarketer going on “anthropological excursions” to stops at Georgetown and Howard on his way to Duke. He talks about why he chose MSU for college. And he shares his goals in his new position to meet the challenges and opportunities facing an “under attack” higher education system.

Conversation Highlights:

(3:52) – “And it was from that moment on I realized I gotta be a Spartan.”

(4:33) – “I started here as an MSU telemarketer, and I can say I have the skills to sell gutters to someone who doesn’t own a home. But I have to be connected to the mission.”

(5:24) – “Early on, there was a divide at many universities where marketing was something very separate, or you may not have even done marketing and you really just worried about media. For me, that’s an intertwined world.”

(8:49) – “Higher education is in an interesting space now. It’s more under attack than you’d ever think, especially for an industry that just serves to educate.”

(12:33) – “I spend a lot of my time trying to welcome people into the problem, having that Spartan mentality that the more people in the room means we’ll find the right answer together.”

(16:55) – “You just have to stay calm. It’s when you panic and forget your training and why you’re doing what you’re doing and keeping that at the forefront of your mind that you make mistakes. While we can’t be perfect, staying calm and being able to manage under pressure is probably the most important piece of advice I could ever give.”

(17:35) – “The people on this campus I owe so much to for who I am today, why I do the things I do, how hard I go after the things I want – also the moral value I put into what I do.”

(19:31) – “I think the hardest thing for this generation is understanding you still have to pay your dues. The one thing you have to do is be comfortable being uncomfortable.”

(21:39) – “This place can create a future for you if you let it and embrace it.”

Listen to “MSU Today with Russ White” on the radio and through Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and wherever you get your shows.

For creating technologies that have the potential to change the world and providing opportunities for future inventors, Muhammad Rabnawaz, an associate professor and Faculty Laureate in the College of Agriculture and Natural Resources at Michigan State University, was inducted into the National Academy of Inventors as a senior member on June 26.

The NAI senior member program was established to highlight academic inventors who have demonstrated a prolific spirit of innovation in creating or facilitating outstanding inventions that hold the promise of making a tangible impact on the public’s quality of life, economic development and the welfare of society. Election to NAI senior member status is an elite professional distinction extended solely to academic inventors.

Rabnawaz is being recognized for his research career developing energy-efficient strategies for recycling commonly used plastics, such as polyethylene terephthalate (recycling code 1) and polystyrene (recycling code 2). He also has created novel coating materials for water and oil-repellent paper to replace single-use plastic and polyfluoroalkyl substances of PFAS-free self-cleaning surfaces for packaging and nonpackaging applications. These inventions have led to 45 patents and counting.

The NAI’s application process is rigorous; not only do nominees need to demonstrate success creating multiple inventions, but they also need to demonstrate a commitment to providing opportunities for future inventors and inventions.

Conversation Highlights:

(0:59) – “When I visited the School of Packaging, I realized there’s an amazing potential for people who want to do something that will benefit the planet.”

(4:27) – “Another factor when they review the nomination packages is that they’re looking for, besides the development of the innovations and technologies themselves, are we preparing the next generation of innovators and scientists.”

(6:17) – “Primarily this recognition came because of our work to make zero-waste packaging for the world.”

(6:54) – “I realized that when you’re in the packaging discipline, it’s so fulfilling in that whatever you do is going to change the world.”

(8:43) – “I think the biggest challenge in the packaging industry is sustainability.”

(11:58) – “If you’re that person with a creative and innovative spirit, packaging is an amazing field.”

(13:03) – “The biggest misconception is that packaging is just about making boxes.”

Listen to “MSU Today with Russ White” on the radio and through Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and wherever you get your shows.

Michigan State University Interim President Teresa K. Woodruff elaborates on topics she covers in her June 2023 Spartan Community Letter, which you can read by clicking on the communications tab at president.msu.edu.

“The campus has a different rhythm in the summer, but we've got a lot going on as we kind of round out the end of summer session one and move into summer session two. And I'm really excited about that. And we really do have a great foundation for success, and we do appreciate the Board of Trustees engagement and approval this month of our budget. And that budget really does prioritize compensation.

“For me, the administration, and the Board of Trustees, our employees really are our most important asset and underlie all our strategic aims, particularly in student success. And so we did prioritize the compensation. That is a very important and welcomed part of this budget. The other thing I would just highlight is that the Board has approved the new recreation center. It's going to be on Shaw Lane, kind of between Birch and Harrison.

“And we still have recreational facilities right now. Students and folks can still be in IM West and other places on campus. But when this is completed in a couple of years, that's going to really be a great first in class space. And that truly is about student success. Ensuring that our students have those kinds of places that they can recreate and relax and take care of their health and wellbeing, that represents a really important asset and something that we're delighted to work on. What is important that that budget has been approved and we're moving forward.”

And the budget also includes $8 million in new investments in campus safety initiatives that Vice President Lynch is leading.

“He's been doing a great job, and he's been talking with a lot of folks around the community. We've had a lot of community input. One of the things we've done is to work in partnership with Ingham County, and we now have a lot of outdoor signals that will now be co-opted to use for emergency settings like we had this last semester. We've got more green light emergency phones that include cameras. We're putting new door locks across campus, and that's happening daily. And we are going to be opening our campus security operations center, which really is an integrated system security that allows for a lot of real time monitoring. That's critical.

“I want everyone to know how grateful we are to the community for the outpouring of support through the Spartan Strong Fund. We closed that fund after raising $2 million from about 4,200 donors. That really is an extraordinary outpouring of support for our students, faculty, and staff. And I just want to give, as a proxy for all those individuals, a great big thank you for their support. And about 300,000 of those dollars is going to go towards a memorial.”

Speaking of the Board, you recently gave them your second annual strategic plan update. I know you live and breathe that strategic plan every day. What is some of the progress you'd like to highlight today as the plan indeed evolves?

“We prioritized and funded advising last year. This is allowing us to add more advisors to our ranks and to develop professional opportunities for those advisors. And that's exciting. It allows for students to have more access to those individuals who can help them along their journey. We also, of course, wanted to highlight our employees in our strategic plan through our honorifics. And this includes university distinguished professors and the various honors and awards that we provide to our staff. But we're really making a concerted effort to ensure that everyone is recognized in ways that, for our humble folks around here, Russ, as you know, they often just do the great work and say, ‘Well, don't shine that light on me.’ We want to make sure that excellence of our employees is recognized.

“We also have a goal, which I think some people were surprised by, of a billion dollars in annual research expenditures by 2030. And we are going in that direction. We're now at $759 million, and that's important for all of us. We have our sustainability goals. We're at number two in the Times Higher Ed for the whole United States. We're number two in the entire U.S. for sustainability. And our DEI goals are ones that we continue to build year on year. This includes in our healthcare colleges, where we've increased our number of students of color by more than 10 percent.

Around the state, you visited our extensive footprint in Grand Rapids. You announced an investment in the iconic Fisher Building in Detroit and highlighted our role in Lansing's regional community at an address at the Lansing Economic Club.

“We're building in all the places and spaces that are relevant to our educational mission. This includes our investment office’s purchase of majority ownership in the Fisher Building in downtown Detroit, part of the New Center of Detroit. It’s also right adjacent to our collaborative partners, the Henry Ford Health Care system, as well as the Pistons. And this partnership is really going to help us toward our commitment of reducing health disparities, particularly in Detroit, by using our research acumen to build better care for every zip code across the state of Michigan.

“I also have been working in Lansing. We have an annual economic impact across the Lansing regional area that's just remarkable. And we've just announced a community initiative called BELIEVE. I believe in Lansing, and many people do as well. It’s co-chaired by April Clobes from the MSUFCU. We're going to bring excellence to Lansing through investment, empowerment, vision, and energy. That's BELIEVE. Bringing Excellence to Lansing through Investment, Empowerment, Vision, and Energy. And later this summer, I'm going to be on some dairy farms and out in some fields. I'm going to be at a cheese factory. We really have a great deal of wonderful activity across all 83 counties of Michigan, and I'm excited to be a part of that.”

Final thoughts?

“It's summer, and it is thought that these are slower, more serene days on campus. And I think they are in some ways, but there are also great things that are happening as everyone gets ready for this next fall season of education. And I’m just so thrilled to be able to elevate to our community some of these great things that are happening at Michigan State.”

Listen to “MSU Today with Russ White” on the radio and through Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and wherever you get your shows.

MSU alumni Chris Solari and Matt Charboneau cover Spartan sports for the Detroit Free Press and Detroit News, respectively. They join me on MSU Today to talk about their backgrounds in journalism, why they chose MSU for college, and how their time at MSU prepared them for their field.

They talk about the state and future of sports journalism and intercollegiate athletics and the challenges and opportunities ahead for both. And they preview the coming seasons for MSU football and men’s basketball.

Conversation Highlights:

(9:25) – “This place had the largest college newspaper in the country. That meant something. Being the editor in chief of the State News isn’t something a lot of people get to do. And at that level and in that time of my life and where the newspaper industry was, that meant a lot.”

(14:59) – “The bad thing about our job is that it takes the sports fan out of you.”

(17:43) – “You get more of a connection with the people as opposed to an institution or a team.”

(18:15) – “Being an alum and having come through and having the background the journalism program provided us make you want to be sure you’re doing things the right way. And you want your alma mater to be doing things the right way, and you sometimes want to hold them to a higher standard.”

(22:41) – “It has changed so dramatically or substantially in the sense that the idea of writing for tomorrow doesn’t exist anymore. Everything is immediate.”

 (28:23) – “That was the moment I realized things had changed. We can now compete in the immediacy realm with television and radio, which we never could before that.”     

(34:04) – “Journalism is not dying. It takes money to do good, deep investigative journalism. You either pay for journalism being an important part of society or you don’t. Someone must.”

(37:16) – “There’s so little regulation over what’s happening that you feel it can’t possibly keep going like this.”

(39:30) – “I think there’s a fatigue right now with the number of changes in such a short window of time that has really staggered the fan bases in a lot of schools and disillusioned them.”

(43:00) – “You cannot afford to not be working every single day. The toughest thing coaches are doing now is recruiting their own roster.”

(49:43) – “A school like Michigan State being ahead of it and trying to in some ways shape it is a good thing. But it’s hard to say how much that’s going to matter in two or three years with how wildly it has fluctuated now.”

(51:30) – “Until you can get a better idea of how much money is flowing and all the things that are lacking guard rails, I don’t know how you could say that Michigan State or any other school will be better or worse positioned.”

Listen to “MSU Today with Russ White” on the radio and through Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and wherever you get your shows.

Michigan’s bottle and can redemption rate has fallen to around 75 percent since the start of the pandemic, according to state data. Prior to 2020, the Michigan Department of Treasury’s bottle deposit information shows the state’s redemption rate was close to 90 percent.

Tom Emmerich is chief operating officer for Schupan & Sons, Inc. and president of Schupan Recycling.

Conversation highlights:

(3:08) – “It really is a very popular piece of legislation. And if you poll Michiganders today, our bottle deposit law still regularly comes in with over a 90 percent favorability rating.”

(4:53) – “Ease and convenience are so important to any recycling effort. And if that gets disrupted, it makes it easier for folks to change their behavior.”

(5:37) – “You’re talking about going from 90 plus percent to 75 percent. That’s roughly $100 million of unclaimed dimes that go to the state.”

(6:40) – “One of the beauties of our deposit system is that it creates the cleanest recycling material for the beverage industry to make new cans and bottles. When Michigan’s rate drops, that’s really impactful for the entire industry nationally in making new aluminum cans.”

(11:53) – “The best systems are ones that have good curbside programs and good deposit systems. You can have both and accomplish the goals we’re all trying to achieve.”

(13:00) – Emmerich shares his 4 E’s of a successful recycling program: Education, Ease, Efficient logistics, and Economically viable markets.

(15:05) – “We like the slogan ‘Take ‘Em Back.’ We want that to be a reminder for everyone in Michigan to take their containers back to the nearest local retailer because it’s the right thing to do. I like this phrase too: ‘It’s your lakes. It’s your roads. It’s your beaches. And it’s your dime.’ So, ‘Take ‘Em Back.’ It’s the right thing for you. It’s the right thing for the state. And it’s the right thing for the environment.”

Listen to “MSU Today with Russ White” on the radio and through Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and wherever you get your shows.

Michigan State University Interim President Teresa K. Woodruff elaborates on some of the topics she covers in her May 2023 Spartan Community Letter, which you can read by clicking on the communications tab at president.msu.edu. 

Could you start by reflecting a bit on commencement? And it was cool to see you with the tiny mic going around Breslin Center talking to some of our grads.

“Oh, it was so exciting, and I'd never known that tiny mic was a thing. I got to talk to a lot of students, and the really neat thing was to just see their spirit and their enthusiasm. They were excited for that beautiful graduation day. One of the things I did, Russ, is to ask them about their favorite places on campus, and they ranged from the front of Cowles House to the frog pond south of the tracks. I had a couple of people who told me about the frog pond, which I quite love as well, to places for meditation and places that they had been for their classes. It was a wonderful representation of the students love for this campus and this place.”

Placemaking is the theme in this month's community letter. How do you define placemaking?

“I'm reading William Beal's book on the founding of MSU, and it really is about place and about that place where people could come and learn. This is a place that remains a natural wonder, and we really want to protect the learning, living environment that is the campus. People gain wholeness and in fact in this last semester, of course, healing out of this campus and our campus places. So, the key for us is to really think about those spaces and places and how the new buildings are situated within that larger ethos of a place that is restorative but continues to evolve, and that's what our campus is doing right now. It has the ability to accommodate the new evolution of the way in which we're thinking and learning and doing while really holding fast and true to that beauty and that living, learning environment where we gather when we walk between those places and spaces.”

Talk about the freestanding multicultural center that we touched on last month, and what are some of the other facilities on the horizon?

“The groundbreaking for that multicultural center was so exciting with standing room only and a lot of folks pitching in to throw that first scoop full of sand to get that process going. And boy, they're going fast over there. In addition, we have the dairy and greenhouses. Those are really teaching and learning facilities that we must have to enable the very best teaching within agriculture, which is our founding and necessary for the state of Michigan. We also are working on our digital innovation center, or EDIC, and this is a place where we'll rebuild what it means to do engineering and digital innovation, scholarship and learning, and bring six colleges together. It's inverting the model of having individual colleges. We're bringing colleges together in this new model.

“Our new greenhouses are housing National Academy of Science members working on the scientific discoveries that could really sustain us and sustain this population into the future. We have the Student Recreation and Wellness Center that's going to replace the IM West facility, and folks are really excited about that on this campus.”

MSU’s annual research and development expenditures grew to almost $760 million in fiscal year 2022. How are some of those funds going towards placemaking?

“These new buildings and facilities are going to house new faculty and students, and it's in those facilities that we’ll be able to continue our upward trend and upward reach to the heights of research expenditure across not only the Big Ten, but literally in the nation.”

Our placemaking extends beyond the East Lansing campus to places like Flint, where you recently visited.

“I had the greatest time in Flint, and I really enjoyed that Norm Beauchamp and Aron Sousa were with me when I visited our Charles Stewart Mott Foundation work that's happening there with Mona Hanna-Attisha. We are building a new community partners and research facility there that's really exciting. I met some of the kids who are in that Flint downtown area and they are really excited about Michigan State University. I think I admitted a couple of six-year-olds or maybe even one that's about four years old. So, just full disclosure, Russ, we've got some Flint kids that are coming to MSU in 2042, and I'm already excited to welcome them.”

We have the very first philanthropically named department in MSU's history with the Charles Stewart Mott Foundation Department of Public Health.

“Public health is so critical as we saw through the COVID context and will continue to have an important way of enlivening the research we do. And particularly in Flint, we're really thoughtful about public health not just being about what MSU researchers think we ought to do and then go do. This is a completely different model where during my visit we had all our community partners who are active participants in the work, folks who then say, ‘Well, this is what we need to know.’ In many ways, what we're doing in Flint in health is what we've done in Extension in agriculture. We've really asked for and then developed the partnership that enables the best kind of thinking and therefore the best kind of work, and it's that positive productive cycle that is so exciting in Flint and across all of Michigan.”

You also recently had some opportunities to recognize and celebrate the achievements of our amazing staff and faculty.

“The key for me is that Michigan State has been celebrating its employees for nearly half a century. This is not a new one off. This is a place that really values every single individual who is part of this whole ecosystem, and I don't think there's anyone who thinks they themselves are above and beyond each other. Whatever part we play within this orchestra that is Michigan State University, we play our parts as well as we can. And in the end, it's a beautiful symphony.”

Ensuring the safety of university community members is another vital element of MSU's placemaking for wellbeing. You were recently pleased to welcome a new vice president for civil rights and Title IX education and compliance, Laura Rugless. Tell us about Laura and her important role.

“Laura comes from Cornell. She’s a veteran and brings an incredible sense of the ways in which we need to focus on prevention and the ways we respond to actual discrimination and sexual violence and misconduct. The folks that I talked with think of her as an ethical people-driven leader. I shared with her this morning that on my computer is a little yellow sticky that says, ‘Today is my favorite day.’ I offered to her that every day at MSU is my favorite day, no matter what comes. And I offered that hopefulness and that positivity to her. She embraces MSU, and I'm excited for what her leadership will bring to campus.”

You have a bit of a travel advisory for Spartans and others visiting camping this summer.

“We've got some traffic detours. As you traverse the campus, you'll have to make some detours, but it's really wonderful. I really like the te...

This month’s State of the State podcast conversation from Michigan State University's Institute for Public Policy and Social Research focuses on the debt limit. Matt Grossmann, Charley Ballard, and Arnold Weinfeld welcome associate professor of economics Antonio Doblas Madrid to the discussion. 

Conversation Highlights:

(1:46) – “The Federal Reserve has been trying for more than a year to slow things down. They’ve had some success. Inflation is not where it was several months ago, but it’s still above their target. There are a lot of indications that the economy is growing more slowly than it was a year ago, but it’s still growing.”

(3:36) – “We’re still at a pretty high level of resources. Compared to the last few years, there is a lot of money and a lot of people asking for that money. The good news about being in the majority during this kind of time is that you can say yes to a lot more people, and that’s usually good for you politically. The bad news is if you say yes with temporary money on a permanent basis, then a few years down the line you have to say no a whole lot more and it can be pretty bad.”

(4:45) – “Surpluses tend to disappear.”

(6:45) – “The United States is one of a group of privileged countries that has always had healthy enough finances that it has never defaulted on its debt. And the U.S. dollar is the world’s reserve currency. It’s shocking that this debt ceiling situation that keeps coming up over and over threatens to engineer a self-inflicted financial crisis.”

(7:45) – “The debt ceiling is a historical oddity of the United States.”

(9:30) – “The U.S. dollar and U.S. government debt are considered the safest financial assets. It would be similar to the ground shaking.”

(11:26) – “The U.S. Treasury is a whole lot bigger than Lehman Brothers.”

(16:34) – “Most countries when they have a default it’s followed by a pretty deep downturn of economic activity.”

(17:06) – “These are good reasons why policy makers have strong incentives to avoid the default, but that doesn’t mean that you don’t gain strategically from having the leverage that you have to force your opponents to the table.”

(20:55) – “The story was a little bit different in 2010 when Democrats had a big majority and could have gotten rid of the debt limit or extended it. And then there was a sentiment that if Republicans are going to be in charge, they should have ownership of the debt limit. And that was kind of the old politics of the debt limit. ‘I don’t want to vote for it when I’m in the minority so that the other side gets the blame raising the debt limit’ even though it has nothing to do with actually increasing spending. And that was catastrophically dumb.”

(21:56) – “None of us is saying the debt should be allowed to grow without any proportion to the country’s ability to repay.”

(22:57) – “These are debts for expenditures that were already approved years ago and money that has already been spent. These are bills that are due now and not paying them is literally bankrupting the country.”

(30:22) – “There’s not a lot of time unfortunately. The extraordinary measures that Treasury has been taking since 1985 have become par for the course.”

(32:00) – “This is an occasion where Democrats and Republicans have to pass something together.”

Listen to “MSU Today with Russ White” on the radio and through Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and wherever you get your shows.