This month’s State of the State podcast conversation from Michigan State University's Institute for Public Policy and Social Research focuses on the debt limit. Matt Grossmann, Charley Ballard, and Arnold Weinfeld welcome associate professor of economics Antonio Doblas Madrid to the discussion. 

Conversation Highlights:

(1:46) – “The Federal Reserve has been trying for more than a year to slow things down. They’ve had some success. Inflation is not where it was several months ago, but it’s still above their target. There are a lot of indications that the economy is growing more slowly than it was a year ago, but it’s still growing.”

(3:36) – “We’re still at a pretty high level of resources. Compared to the last few years, there is a lot of money and a lot of people asking for that money. The good news about being in the majority during this kind of time is that you can say yes to a lot more people, and that’s usually good for you politically. The bad news is if you say yes with temporary money on a permanent basis, then a few years down the line you have to say no a whole lot more and it can be pretty bad.”

(4:45) – “Surpluses tend to disappear.”

(6:45) – “The United States is one of a group of privileged countries that has always had healthy enough finances that it has never defaulted on its debt. And the U.S. dollar is the world’s reserve currency. It’s shocking that this debt ceiling situation that keeps coming up over and over threatens to engineer a self-inflicted financial crisis.”

(7:45) – “The debt ceiling is a historical oddity of the United States.”

(9:30) – “The U.S. dollar and U.S. government debt are considered the safest financial assets. It would be similar to the ground shaking.”

(11:26) – “The U.S. Treasury is a whole lot bigger than Lehman Brothers.”

(16:34) – “Most countries when they have a default it’s followed by a pretty deep downturn of economic activity.”

(17:06) – “These are good reasons why policy makers have strong incentives to avoid the default, but that doesn’t mean that you don’t gain strategically from having the leverage that you have to force your opponents to the table.”

(20:55) – “The story was a little bit different in 2010 when Democrats had a big majority and could have gotten rid of the debt limit or extended it. And then there was a sentiment that if Republicans are going to be in charge, they should have ownership of the debt limit. And that was kind of the old politics of the debt limit. ‘I don’t want to vote for it when I’m in the minority so that the other side gets the blame raising the debt limit’ even though it has nothing to do with actually increasing spending. And that was catastrophically dumb.”

(21:56) – “None of us is saying the debt should be allowed to grow without any proportion to the country’s ability to repay.”

(22:57) – “These are debts for expenditures that were already approved years ago and money that has already been spent. These are bills that are due now and not paying them is literally bankrupting the country.”

(30:22) – “There’s not a lot of time unfortunately. The extraordinary measures that Treasury has been taking since 1985 have become par for the course.”

(32:00) – “This is an occasion where Democrats and Republicans have to pass something together.”

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MSU Health Promotion guru Dennis Martell is retiring this summer following an impactful career promoting wellness among the MSU community.

Martell reflects on his almost 40 years evolving health promotion initiatives at MSU. He describes how students have changed over the years, and he shares some of his fondest memories from his MSU career. He discusses the challenges and opportunities awaiting his successor and talks about the mission of The National Social Norms Center at Michigan State University.

Conversation Highlights:

(1:20) – “I remember in ninth grade I saw a report that said, ‘this Dennis Martell will not go very far because of his disabilities,’ and I took that as a challenge.”

(4:03) – “And I came down to East Lansing and gave a speech. And in the audience were three professors from MSU who came up and said ‘Hey, how would you like to come to MSU and get your PhD?’”

(6:08) – “As several different administrators say I’m either a radical, an activist, or an advocate.”

(6:53) – “I got my second master’s here, and I got my PhD here. I love this place. It gave me the opportunity to look at the culture and the environment. When I was offered the job in health promotion, I wanted to see if I could help change the culture.”

(8:06) – “Health is really the capacity you have at any given time to be in this world, to interact with the world, and give back to the world. Health is a measure of capacity. And what is capacity? Capacity is the ability – or skills and energy – to do something, see something, or experience something.”

(9:41) – “What is the meaning of health? Really what it comes down to is freedom. The ultimate freedom is health.”

(12:06) – “Health promotion is about increasing the capacity, supporting the capacity, and restoring the capacity in individuals. I consider myself a capacity builder, and you can do that in so many ways.”

(13:17) – “This generation now does not know how to deal with fear or threats.”

(16:33) – “Mental health is one of the increasing challenges. But so is financial, housing, and food insecurity.”

(17:43) – “Let’s treat alcohol as a health issue. Not a legal issue. Not a moral issue.”

(19:00) – “We take that behavior, and we give it back to them. We tell them what they do. We don’t tell them what to do. That changed the perception and then the behavior.”

(20:15) – “Some of the people in this generation have lost common sense.”

(23:37) – “If you drink one type of alcohol and you stay in one place and you stay with friends, you’re less likely to experience any harm when you’re celebratory drinking.”

(30:50) – “We create an environment that’s conducive for learning. We don’t educate people. We provide the environment. That’s the same thing we need to do with health. We need to provide an environment so people can find their capacity.”

(32:19) – “Once you are a Spartan and embrace the fundamental principles of a land grant institution, you judge the health of a community by its capacity to be good and caring. That’s what it’s really all about.”

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Three-time MSU alumna Kathy Wilbur is senior vice president for Government Relations at MSU. Katie John is associate vice president for State Relations and an MSU alumna, too.

Wilbur and John elaborate on the mission of Government Relations at MSU. They talk about Michigan’s Democratically controlled legislature, too, and about policy issues being discussed at the Capitol that could impact MSU. They update the latest state budget negotiations and reflect on the career of retiring Senior U.S. Senator and two-time MSU alumna Debbie Stabenow. And they talk about the Spartan Advocate program that works with partners across the state to create a stronger, healthier, more prosperous tomorrow—for Michigan and the world.

Conversation Highlights:

(00:27) – “We divide our work into four areas…”

(6:57) – “It’s a sea change. It’s a dramatically different philosophical bent. That’s probably no surprise to anyone. I think that’s why they voted that way.”

(7:57) – “What a busy agenda the Democrats have managed to accomplish in these few short months.” 

(12:45) – “This really is a policy that would cover every higher education institution in the state, and it does allow for the sale of alcohol at a variety of athletic venues.”

(16:18) – “Last year the governor and the legislature worked very closely under a Republican-controlled legislature to implement the Michigan Achievement Scholarship.”

(19:07) – “We also have heard on the mental health needs that the legislature has heard about these needs over and over again. The needs are everywhere. But on college campuses, the increase in our requests alone for mental health support services is really astounding.”

(21:24) – “We have worked closely with the MEDC to bring companies onto campus who are either interested in landing or expanding in Michigan, and they want to talk about your talent pipeline. Who are you producing that we can hire?”

(22:34) – “It was very apparent to President Stanley, who understood that we needed to advocate – and we did successfully – for greenhouses and dairy barns. But the very next request had to be this because it was an important investment for the state and an important statement for MSU to make that we were partners with the state.”

(23:20) – “She is a double alumna and has been very supportive of so many of our efforts, especially in the agricultural world. It’s going to be a tremendous loss for the state.”

(25:51) – “We always have an open door. We encourage people to reach out to work with us. A common thread in the four areas that Kathy highlighted is relationships.”

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Led by partners Dr. Mona Hanna-Attisha at the MSU-Hurley Pediatric Public Health Initiative and Dr. Luke Shaefer, faculty director of the University of Michigan’s Poverty Solutions center, Rx Kids is a transformational effort to address child poverty and health equity. 

Consistent with practices in other countries, Rx Kids boldly tackles a root cause of health disparities: poverty. A first-of-its-kind program, Rx Kids will provide unconditional cash allowances to pregnant moms and babies in Flint.

Rx Kids—a first-in-the-nation program—is the solution to uplifting babies and young children out of poverty and into better health. In partnership with health care providers and community-engaged outreach, Rx Kids plans to prescribe all expectant mothers in Flint a one-time prenatal allowance ($1,500) and all infants (0-1 year) monthly allowances ($500/month). What sets Rx Kids apart from existing cash allowance programs is its intentional impact on maternal and infant health outcomes at a community level. 

The anticipated reach of Rx Kids within the City of Flint during the intervention period (2024-2028) is over 6,000 families.

“Rx Kids is something that has never been done before,” says Hanna-Attisha. “It is a citywide effort to disrupt poverty and improve health equity. Flint is the poorest city in the state. Our child poverty rates are about three times state and national averages and families are most poor when the babies are just born. Right before birth and in that first year of life, poverty spikes.

“And for me as a pediatrician, that is maddening because that is the same time that child development is the most critical. Babies' brains actually double in size in that first year of life and that's when families are the poorest. It's so frustrating that we just band-aid so many problems that are associated with poverty and that we don't do something preventative.

“I was tired of shrugging my shoulders, and I was tired of band-aiding. We do big things. We do hard things. Why not prescribe something that can lift our families out of poverty during this most critical time of child development? That's how the idea was born. We're going to give every pregnant mom in Flint a prenatal allowance, and then every baby until the age of 12 months will get a monthly cash allowance.

“This is huge and transformative and has never been done before at a citywide level. There are a lot of great pilots across the country with sample sizes of 100 or 200, but this is big. This is going to be for the whole city. There are about 1,200 babies born in Flint a year, which is one of the reasons we can do this in Flint. It's a small big city. We also have great need, and we also have this built academic community partnership and this long history of the university investing in this city humbly working with community partners to do big things to improve health equity and to reduce disparities.”

Why are cash allowances the best solution?

“Families tend to know what they need the most,” says Shaefer. “Some families need food, some families need help paying the rent, some families need it for childcare, and some families need it to buy books and toys to help kids thrive. This is the beauty of cash. Milton Friedman was a huge proponent of using cash to help families, and it just empowers families. A couple of the other pieces of the puzzle on this is sometimes we have programs that only serve very poor families. We have other programs that serve middle class families. Part of the vision of Rx Kids that starts with Dr. Mona is that we're going to serve all the kids. Raising kids is expensive and it's hard. Society has a reason to come alongside parents in that work.

“We're going to do something simple and come alongside all the families. And by doing that, we don't risk making it a stigmatized program that somehow is a marker that we're only giving it to families who aren't making it or aren't able to make ends meet that says something about them not being able to do that.

“The messaging is incredibly different. We have seen cash allowances repeatedly, all around the world, work for families. And we've learned so many interesting things. There are some countries where we've been able to see as child benefits roll out, alcohol and tobacco spending among parents goes down. Sometimes people worry that there might be some folks who don't use the money in the right way. But in this case, it looks like probably because sometimes substance use is a reaction to stress and not having enough money is a big stressor that the effect is the opposite. We have all of that evidence, and we can bring it to bear on this program and do something in the United States that we have never done before.”

How will Rx Kids change the trajectory of childhood poverty in Flint?

“We think it's going to impact those critical maternal and infant health outcomes first,” continues Hanna-Attisha. “We think more folks will go to their prenatal visits and get connected with all the interventions and services in that space. That's going to improve birth outcomes like birth weight and prematurity and infant mortality and maternal morbidity, all these important and very costly health outcomes.

“We think it's going to increase and support that relationship between moms and babies and their medical provider, both at prenatally and in the pediatric space like improving well visits, immunization rates, and necessary screenings and developmental things that happen there. We think for adults and parents, we're going to see decreased stress, which is seen throughout these kinds of programs. We're going to look at things like substance abuse, but also, we're going to measure things like happiness and hope and dignity and trust in government and institutions.

“It's fair to say that in places like Flint, there's not much trust in government for many reasons, for longstanding neglect and disinvestment and systemic inequities. And we're hoping we will be able to measure an increase in that social contract between those critical institutions and the people who have been neglected for so long. This might play out with increased civic engagement, increased voting rates, increased engagement in neighborhood clubs, and participation in all kinds of different things. Some of my favorite things that we're going to measure are things at a community level because this has never been done at a community level.

“What's going to happen to things like population stability? Are fewer people going to leave Flint? Will people move into Flint? These dollars are going to largely be spent in the community, and that's going to be an economic jolt for the community that's going to benefit all kinds of people, including local businesses and small businesses.

“There are a whole slew of things that we're going to look at, and a lot of them are short term. We'll be able to see findings right away, but a lot will take years and maybe decades to play out. How does this impact things like kindergarten readiness and third grade reading and economic productivity and chronic disease rates and life expectancy? If you really lean on that science of early childhood, we understand that milieu of early childhood really portends life course trajectories. And if we can build a nutrient rich environment in early childhood, we think we'll be able to impact those life course outcomes for decades and maybe generations to come.”

Talk about some challenges and opportunities as you work towards these goals.

“One is actually how you distribute the money,” continues Shaefer. “We are incredibly lucky to be working with Give Directly, which is the international leader on how to do that exactly right. And they've done cash ...

For years, Michigan State University College of Human Medicine researchers in the Division of Public Health have been working with Flint Community Partners to improve the health of the community, improve access to healthcare, reduce health disparities, and advance policies and interventions that aim to eliminate structural racism in healthcare. And every step of the way the Charles Stewart Mott Foundation has been a visionary partner by providing the funding for space and endowed faculty positions.

The support from the Mott Foundation has allowed MSU to invest in public health researchers seeking community minded solutions to tackle issues like the Flint water crisis and the Coronavirus pandemic. Over the past six years, MSU's Division of Public Health has brought in more than 115 million in federal research funding for these efforts. Now the university is creating its first fully philanthropically-named department in recognition of this long-term support as MSU seeks to expand its efforts to recruit top talent. The expanded academic unit in Flint will allow for significant growth in faculty as well as increased community programming.

The Charles Stewart Mott Department of Public Health is the first named department at Michigan State University. The Mott Foundation granted $25 million to expand the Michigan State University College of Human Medicine's Public Health presence in Flint about one year ago. The grants created an endowed fund to attract and retain public health faculty, increase academic research, and boost community partnerships. As a result, the public health division has grown and was recently elevated to a department. The naming of the department is in recognition of the Mott Foundation's transformational support.

Here to discuss this are Dr. Aron Sousa, Dean of the College of Human Medicine; Dr. Mona Hanna-Attisha, Charles Stewart Mott Endowed Professor of Public Health and founding director of the Pediatric Public Health Initiative; and Ridgway White, President and CEO of the Mott Foundation.

“The college was founded as really the first medical school in the country based on a community focus,” says Sousa. “We have been in our communities for the 60 years or so that the college has been in existence, and that includes Flint. And as we were trying to figure out what to do to better engage with communities and foster better health and healthier communities, public health is really where that kind of rubber hits the road. And our partners in Flint, Hurley Medical Center, McLaren, and the Mott Foundation started putting together this kind of concept of a community-based public health program where we philosophically wanted to be in the community, invite the community into our building, and most importantly, work with the people of Flint as collaborators.”

Sousa talks about what it means to have the name of Charles Stewart Mott on the department and the value and importance of elevating and structuring the faculty and staff into its own department and how that benefits programming in Flint to create impact for the community, the state, and the nation.

“I've had this amazing privilege of traveling all over the country and working in other public health programs and learning about what they do,” says Hanna-Attisha. “There is no other place that does public health or thinks about health as we do. We were born in this really bizarre way. We didn't just say, ‘Hey, we're really smart and we're the university and we're going to come into this community and we're going to fix your problems.’ We sat and we listened, and this was the brainchild of Dean Sousa when he first sought out to build this public health program in Flint. We had community meetings and forums and town halls and surveys, and we literally asked the community, ‘Hey, what do you want us to work on?’ And based on that, the public health programming in Flint was born and has grown and grown, and we've never lost sight of that kind of conception of being community partnered. We are working on issues that our community wants us to work on, and it's more likely to achieve health equity.”

Dr. Mona highlights some of the current research projects taking place in the public health area and about how the naming of the department impacts the work of the faculty and researchers.

“If it wasn't for Dr. Mona Hanna-Attisha and the MSU Department of Public Health, we wouldn't have had the science that was needed to prove that the blood level in the children in Flint was elevated,” White says. “That has had huge ripple effects on all kinds of policy and federal funding for water initiatives on clean, affordable, accessible water for all across the United States.

“MSU has been an amazing partner, a great grantee. The Mott Foundation is only as good as its grantees. We applaud MSU for taking these dollars and maximizing them. We always say ‘nothing about us without us.’ And that rings true to the land grant philosophy of MSU. For the Mott Foundation, that's core to us.”

“In this nation, we spend trillions on healthcare,” Hanna-Attisha continues. “We have built a sickness-based system, but we have failed to really go after those root causes, those root determinants of ill health. And that's what we're trying to do in Flint. We're trying to go upstream and address those root causes so that our hospitals aren't filled with chronic diseases and that our life expectancy isn't 20 years less in Flint than another part of Genesee County. Our Department of Public Health is within the medical school. In so many other places, it is a separate siloed school or department that's not related to the medical school. Having these two kinds of departments or units married together really enables us to train a future workforce of physicians who understand what public health is and can see beyond the patient in front of them and can address these upstream determinants.

“In a really short period, we have built awesome. We are doing awesome work in Flint, thanks to the investment and support of the CS Mott Foundation. But really, in some ways, our work is just beginning. So, we look forward to the next few years. We look forward to more partnerships. We look forward to more support, more folks out there listening who say, ‘Hey, I want to invest in this, too.’ Come. We welcome all who want to support our work and who want to work with us.”

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Michigan State University Interim President Teresa K Woodruff joins me on MSU Today to elaborate on some of the topics she covers in her April 2023 Spartan Community Letter, which you can read by clicking on the communications tab at president.msu.edu.

“I love this time of year. Commencement is really one of my favorite days of the year. I'm excited for each of our students as they walk through that line and put on their gowns of green. It's a beautiful resplendent color, and they are beautiful and resplendent in it.”

More than 200 of our students will graduate with perfect 4.0 grade point averages. That excellence is amazing and is supported by our world-class faculty and staff. Even US News & World Report continues to notice our excellence.

“We've got four programs that are ranked number one, and over 25 in the top registers of the US News & World Report rankings. We're really pleased with the way in which our faculty achieve their excellence. That, in turn, creates the right environment for our students.”

Honors College Junior Victoria Fex is our 53rd Goldwater Scholar.

“That's something to celebrate. This is a place where our students really succeed, and then we see them excelling in these nationally competitive programs. I couldn't be more excited for Victoria, and certainly proud of MSU for its legacy and what it does to enable these students' success.”

Another Spartan was honored for his service and engagement with his selection as a 2023-'24 Newman Civic Fellow by Compass Compact. That's Jai Kozar-Lewis. He's a supply chain management first-year student.

“This is part of the secret to Michigan State. Our students, like our faculty and employees, are always about learning, but also about giving. He's all about providing his knowledge and expertise in environmental issues across communities. That's the way in which we have outreach with impact. That's what Jai represents.”

Congratulations to the 25 exceptional undergraduate and graduate students and alumni selected for the National Science Foundation Graduate Research Fellowship Program.

“Our graduate students and undergraduates are exceptional. The National Science Foundation selects those who are the most outstanding across the United States. This is highly competitive for our students in the sciences, technologies, engineering, and mathematic disciplines. These students will now be enabled to pursue their masters and doctorates. I look forward to supporting these students as they continue their pathway toward those advanced degrees.”

Excellence is also a priority in the field of competition among Spartan student athletes. We recently welcomed a new head coach for women’s basketball. It's Okemos native Robyn Fralick.

“I've had a chance to meet Robyn. She came in and immediately started recruiting. I've had the chance to chat with her a couple of times. She's really terrific. She and her young family are here. Just immediately I think it felt like home. I think she's going to do a great job for Michigan State.”

New facilities go a long way in supporting our excellence. Among many projects, we had two important groundbreakings recently, the addition to the School of Packaging and our freestanding Multicultural Center.

“This is a time of real extraordinary advances across this campus. The School of Packaging is number one in the nation and the only school that has a PhD program in packaging. We were able to cut the ribbon with a group of donors and industry leaders. If you go across any industry around the globe that is the in top 100 in packaging, they are led by Spartans. I'm so proud of the way in which Matt Daum, who is the director of that school, has led our packaging program. He’s also a great alum. The Multicultural Center, boy, the roof was blown off the tent top for that event. We filled the place with folks who were just so excited to be a part of the future of Michigan State through this new Multicultural Center. I'm excited for where Michigan State has been, and most importantly, the fulcrum towards where it's going as it will be represented in this building.”

Earth Day is just behind us. You have a key new hire in our new director of sustainability, Chip Amoe.

“Melissa Woo and her team looked nationally for our new director of sustainability. Chip is the real deal. He's going to come in and not only move us forward on the trajectory we were, but I suspect really move that upwards. He is someone who has had long-standing excellence in sustainability. Our folks are really excited about having him here. I'm thrilled that he's joining us. I think you know that we all talk about the Spartan Green in our sustainability efforts. He is already green through and through, so we're really advantaged by his presence.”

Have you had a chance yet to see the wonderful exhibit that Devon Akmon and his team have opened this month at the MSU Museum? It's a collaboration with the Smithsonian Institution.

“It's special, not only with the Smithsonian, but also with the Audubon. I was able to meet several of our board members from the Smithsonian Institute who just have extraordinary praise for Michigan State and our museum and for Devon and the way in which we are representing to the broadest group of people the opportunity to join us in learning more, like in Knowing Nature. This was really about the boreal forest. There are billions of birds that migrate largely at night. These boreal forests are necessary for that habitat.

“Going to that exhibit will allow you to learn a lot more, as I did, about this part of our ecosystem. This is the starting point for this exhibit that's then going to travel from here. And with the new assets that we build for accessibility, which is something Michigan State is absolutely committed to, we’re going to add value to that program. I know the Smithsonian and the Audubon directors are really thrilled. We're excited about that exhibit.”

As Spartan Nation continues to reflect and heal from the violence we experienced on February 13th, you've created a temporary Office for Resource and Support Coordination. Tell us about that and your continued reflections as we heal.

“I want to send my thoughts out to everyone who is continuing to grieve in their own way on this, what we call the long walk forward. We're on a different pace but on the same path. We're going to get there together. Part of what we're hoping to do is to enable folks to be able to move forward, particularly those most affected in that violent event on February 13th. That's going to be coordinated through the

MSU alumna Grace Wojcik is the director of Michigan State University's Gender and Sexuality Campus Center.

Where did your original interest in and passion for advocating for the LGBTQIA+ community come from?

“I started my path as an advocate for the community in high school. That was around the time of the 2004 marriage amendment in the state of Michigan. And I was also really active in trying to get a gay/straight alliance started at my high school at Lapeer East High School. So we had a joint one with the crosstown high school, Lapeer West, and that was rough. We had some pushback from administration. It's the early 2000s and so there wasn't the same openness that we have now. And from there, coming to Michigan State, I got involved with some of the LGBT caucuses and student organizations on campus and later the LGBT Resource Center, The LBGT Resource Center as it was known. And that really set me on the path of advocating for the LGBTQ+ community and making sure folks have access to the support resources they need and are entitled to.”

Why MSU? Why did you choose to return now?

“It's funny, I applied for this position a number of times previously, but I had left higher education. A former student of mine from Oakland University sent me the posting, and she works here, shout out to Kara. And she sent me the posting saying, ‘I know you're kind of done, but I think you'd be great. We need you here at MSU. We need you to come home’ kind of thing. I applied and am so happy to finally get this job. This is kind of the dream job of mine after being in higher education for the better part of a decade. This is kind of like the ultimate position for me. I'm excited to come back home.”

Talk about the mission of the center and how it's evolving. Who you advocate for and how you go about it?

“We are primarily student focused, and we're here to make sure that our LGBTQIA+ students feel seen, advocated for, and empowered while they're on campus. We also do a lot of consulting with faculty and staff and the administration to make sure our students are included across campus, however that looks, whether that is in policies and procedures, housing assignments, or a wide variety of ways.

“Ultimately what we're here to do is to make sure our LGBTQIA+ students are supported, and they make it to graduation. They can be successful here no matter their sexual orientation, gender identity, or expression. I think a lot of times people think we're just for LGBTQIA+ students, but really anybody is welcome to stop by the center. We have a family room area where students tend to socialize and study. It’s just a good place to wind down, take a load off in between classes, meet other students, and find connections. A lot of times people stop by and say, ‘I have questions. I want to learn more about the community because I'm doing this project.’ We're all happy to engage with that work as well.”

Do you have some short-term goals and then have you had time to even think of some longer term ones yet?

“I feel like I'm a little bit more aware of some of the connections that haven't been able to be fostered. I'm really looking forward to connecting with alums who want to support the office and who have their time, talent, and treasure to give back to the students. I know a lot of folks who are passionate about getting connected and supporting this next generation of students. That's a really big goal of mine.

“I also am in the very early stages of a strategic planning process for the center. I would really like for us to make sure that what we're offering is still what students need and want and that we're meeting the mark for those different areas. I want to see us become one of the most LGBTQ inclusive campuses in the State of Michigan on the Campus Pride Index. And while there are problems and things that we can talk about with that index because no assessment is perfect, what we know is that that assessment is backed by research for best practices for LGBTQ+ resource centers. I would really like for us to be one of the top ranked universities. At my previous institution, I was able to do that, and I don't see any reason why I can't do it here.”

What about some challenges and opportunities as you pursue those goals?

“The pandemic really did a number on our student engagement. Our student orgs across campus have been struggling with students understanding the reason why it's important to get engaged or even just what it looks like for these student orgs and what they have the power to do. And that's no criticism of the students. It's hard to come to a campus of this size and be in a virtual setting or to be a freshman and then go virtual.

“We're in a serious rebuilding stage across campus. Everybody's experiencing this is what I've come to understand. We really want to make sure the students know what they're capable of doing as student activists. And we're really here to support that advocacy as best as we can. But we also want to foster connection between the groups because we know that with a campus of 55,000 students, there's no way that one office with three full-time staff members can reach all of those students. That's really where these student orgs come into a critical position. They have a big role to play and we know that they're important. Students may find them first and then find us just based on comfort and proximity. We really want to make sure folks know that the center and these student orgs are here to support students. That's critical.”

You've said it a couple different ways. I said LGBTQIA+. Is that right?

“Yes. Everybody uses a different acronym. In our mission statements we use LGBTQIA2S+. Other institutions just use the LGBTQIA or LGBTQ+. We're all saying pretty much the same thing. There are various acronyms in play all over.”

That leads me into a question about the pronouns. Why is it important to honor people the way they want to be honored? People want to do the right thing, but sometimes they're overly careful and say nothing.

“That's typically what I've experienced, too. The fear stops people from doing anything. It becomes almost paralyzing. For pronouns, the easiest way to approach it is just to understand when you see someone sharing their pronouns on their name badge, their email signature, or even in an introduction in a group setting, they're really trying to set the stage for inclusion for everybody to be able to share pronouns rather than the onus only being on the people who maybe use pronouns that quote, unquote, ‘don't match their appearance’ or don't match what we would assume them to be. That's one way for us to create a more inclusive campus environment.

“I know that pronouns are kind of getting a bad rap politically. There's a lot of pushback towards the transgender community and gender-nonconforming community. And I think a lot of that is based on preying on people's fear and misunderstanding or the fear of the unknown. Most of the time people do want to treat others with respect and dignity. And I think that's one way to do it.

“If I'm just meeting someone, I'll say, ‘Hey, I'm Grace, I use she/her pronouns. What pronouns do you use?’ Or ‘Can you remind me of your pronouns?’ There are really easy ways to ask it in a respectful way. And then of course, you may have folks that'll just say, ‘Oh, by the way, that person uses this set of pronouns.’ Again, it's all about respect. It's not about making anybody feel like they need to be, quote, unquote, ‘canceled.’ Most of the time people will gently and respectfully correct someone else when they've misused a pronoun. But again, it's just about treating each other how they would like to be treated, let alone how we would want...

When Vice President and Chief of Police Marlon Lynch joined his alma mater in February 2021, Michigan State University expanded the role of police chief in recognition of the broadening nature of proactive safety planning needs across the university beyond traditional law enforcement efforts.

To strengthen and bolster these efforts going forward, Interim President Woodruff has changed the structure of Police and Public Safety’s leadership to enable the accelerated expansion of university safety efforts across the East Lansing campus and all MSU campuses throughout Michigan.

Chris Rozman is the new chief of police. And Vice President Lynch is now vice president and chief safety officer for MSU. On this episode of MSU Today, Lynch and Rozman talk about the transition and their new roles.

Conversation highlights:

(1:12) – “My role as vice president and chief safety officer will be broader, as opposed to also having primary responsibility for the university police department. The university and its needs evolve.”

(3:40) – “I’m honored and humbled to be offered the appointment to chief at my alma mater and the place where I’ve spent my entire career.”

(5:47) – “We do a really good job of community outreach, engagement, and policing as it is, and I want to make sure we weave that through all our employees in every aspect of our department. Our police officers do a great job daily, and I want to emphasize the point that every interaction we have with every member of our community is an opportunity to engage and build trust.”

(9:14) – “I’m not an emotional person, but I have found myself feeling very emotional since then. It’s something to deal with both personally and professionally. Being cognizant of that is necessary for us to move forward.”

(11:06) – “What I think really stands out is that our department and most of our employees who have been here a long time are truly connected to this community. We are impacted and healing just like our community.”

(12:40) – “As we were committed to communicating updates and sharing information with our community, we weren’t talking to the media or the cameras. We were speaking to our community.”

(13:38) – “We are part of the community. We are Spartans protecting Spartans. That’s how we’re going to move forward. This is our campus. What surprised me was the number of students who told us they still feel safe on campus. We are absolutely committed to ensuring the safety of this campus now and in the future. And we know we need to work with the community to do that and we stand ready.”

(15:25) – “The chiefs for the cities of East Lansing, Lansing, and Meridian Township, and the sheriff for Ingham County are all Spartans. There’s a connectivity in the law enforcement and public safety community, including fire and EMS.”

Listen to “MSU Today with Russ White” on the radio and through Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and wherever you get your shows.

Chip Amoe is Michigan State University's new director of sustainability, and he's leading the Office of Sustainability at MSU.

What attracted you to MSU?

“We’re the oldest land-grant university in the country, and so we've got a great history. You've got great proximity here to our state leaders, and we're doing all the things that are important for sustainability in the future. I truly believe that climate change is the biggest threat that we all face across the entire globe, and that it is the existential threat that we all must address. But here at MSU, we're working on a lot of the things that have an impact, not just on climate change, but sustainability broadly. Everything from packaging to supply chain to agriculture, all these things are critical to addressing sustainability and improving the health of our people and our planet.”

How did you originally get interested in this area and why you're passionate about it?

“I've always been passionate about the planet. I grew up in Michigan. My formative years were in Alpena, and I've lived in Grosse Pointe and Ann Arbor and spent time in Traverse City. I'm really all in on Michigan and its natural resources. It's always been a passion. I started recycling before it was cool and was pushing my parents to do it. I'm the guy who digs the recycling out of the trash in my own home and pulls it out.

“I've always believed that our built environment has a big impact on our health and that as we're redesigning and redeveloping cities, and I had a particular passion about doing that in Detroit, that we needed to do that with an eye towards health if we're going to redesign and redevelop cities. That's what got me into it. I’m an advocate for a more sustainable and healthier environment.”

What’s the mission of the Office of Sustainability? How is it evolving, what is your role, and where do you want to see things go?

“Early on I’m listening and learning. How do we help continue to support the state in its efforts? How do we support businesses and other industries in their efforts? And how do we lead by example? That's really where we're going to be focused early on is how do we lead by example and be a living lab for products, new ideas, and new ways of doing things. And then we want to really be a resource to the state and its industry, giving them practical ways to do things and helping them to implement sustainability because it's going to take more than just us doing it. It's going to take the entire state, the entire nation, and the entire world, frankly, to be able to do this. And if we could provide ways to make it easier for people to make the healthy, more sustainable choice, that's what I want to do to help really expand this because we need to move fast on it. It needs to happen now.”

What are some of your short- and long-term goals?

“Short term right now is really to just get an understanding of all the great work that we're doing on campus. We have our own MRF, which is a material recovery facility for recycling, and our surplus store, which is amazing. Those are some really great things. How do we expand on those? How do we continue to do more with those? Those are some great resources. And then long-term looking at opportunities to partner with other companies to implement new technologies here on campus to leverage the research that we're doing at our campus and really to try to put those in place. Really trying to look at it holistically. And not only that, to really embed sustainability into the culture, to literally lean into that ‘Go Green’ and really make it part of our culture so that it's just who we are as a university.”

As you pursue some of these goals, what are some challenges and opportunities?

“With any large organization, the challenge is always breaking down the silos. I don't care what organization you are, there are going to be silos. And there are going to be opportunities for collaboration. The opportunities are tremendous given our history, where we're located, all our work around agriculture, the land that we have around us, and our communities and satellite campuses in Detroit and Grand Rapids and Flint. And we’ll leverage our Extension programs to really spread that. It's a matter of coordinating and then setting a vision and helping to get us there.”

How do you define sustainability?

“The traditional definition of sustainability is meeting today's needs without sacrificing the needs of future generations. But I really look at sustainability holistically. Climate change is the most existential threat that we face, and that is a big thing. But sustainability is more than that. It's about really creating healthy environments, both internal and external.

“There are going to be a lot of demands on the state of Michigan, especially as climate continues to change and people flock to the state as the respite for a lot of the climate challenges that we have. Sustainability is really that triple bottom line approach of people, planet, and prosperity. If it doesn't save money and it doesn't make financial sense, it's not going to be sustainable.

“I'm open to new ideas and new ways to do things. Two things that I hate to hear are, ‘We've always done it that way.’ I don't want to hear that unless you're coming at it and saying, ‘But we can do it differently.’ And two, I don't like to use the word can't because we can do anything we put our minds to. It's just a matter of resources and having the will to be able to do that, and we know Spartans Will.”

Listen to “MSU Today with Russ White” on the radio and through Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and wherever you get your shows.

Michigan State University has integrated the MSU Student Organic Farm into the Division of Student Life and Engagement (SLE). This move reflects the university’s commitment to providing students with opportunities for hands-on learning and engagement with sustainable agriculture.

The MSU Student Organic Farm is a valuable resource for all students to learn about organic food, farming, and the impact of food on the planet. As part of SLE, the farm will gain more resources and support to expand its impact and continue its mission of educating the next generation.

Our panel discussion includes Laurie Thorp, director of the Residential Initiative on the Study of the Environment and one of the founders of the Student Organic Farm; Laura Young from MSU’s Office of Sustainability; and George Berghorn, an assistant professor of construction management in the School of Planning, Design and Construction. 

Conversation Highlights:

(5:43) – The mission of the farm “has evolved, but always at its heart has been its name – a farm where students can make decisions and experiment with different ways of growing food. What’s changed is the image of the farm.”

(7:52) – “Really what I love so much about the farm is that it’s a perfect example and a shining jewel for the potential to use our campus as a living laboratory.”

(10:42) - “Everybody eats. We can talk about farming and agriculture as if it’s this foreign thing. But we all eat.”

(14:47) – “What we’re doing here exactly models for our students how you work with people in different disciplines who don’t know much about your discipline.”

(21:35) – “We’re slowly growing out of that word (sustainability). Regenerative is the word we’re hearing more. It’s not just about sustaining people and places and planets. It’s about knowing we’ve done so much damage that we need to go a few steps further to how we can regenerate areas.”

(24:20) – “How can a building contribute more than it takes? How do we build things that add to the natural, economic, and human-centric environment rather than just take.”

(27:11) – “I said ‘What do you think about a straw-bale building?’ And I got a great reaction.”

(30:46) – “It’s a great example of what can happen when you lower the barriers to collaboration.”

(33:10) – “It’s an amazing opportunity for all of us to brag about and show that we are leaders in sustainability and education and food and farming.”

Support the people and programs at MSU building a more sustainable future on campus and around the world.

Listen to “MSU Today with Russ White” on the radio and through Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and wherever you get your shows.