Nathan Barry Archive

Ali Abdaal is a Doctor, writer, podcaster, entrepreneur, and YouTube sensation. Ali has grown his YouTube subscriber base to over 2 million, and writes a weekly newsletter titled Sunday Snippets. Sunday Snippets covers productivity tips, practical life advice, and the best insights from across the web.

Ali studied medicine at Cambridge University. He worked as a Doctor in the United Kingdom before taking time off to explore his other interests. His YouTube channel covers medicine, tech, lifestyle, and productivity. Ali also co-hosts a weekly podcast with his brother, called Not Overthinking.

After learning to code at age 12, Ali started doing freelance web design and development. He enjoys playing piano, guitar, and singing covers of mainstream pop songs. You can find occasional videos of Ali’s music prowess on his Instagram page.

In this episode, you’ll learn:

• Ali’s savvy insights for growing your YouTube subscriber base
• A proven formula for writing content titles that get clicks
• Ali’s playbook for taking your podcast to a whole new level

Links & Resources

• The Nathan Barry Show on Apple Podcasts
• The Nathan Barry Show on Spotify
• Sean McCabe
• Pat Flynn
• ConvertKit
• Ibz Mo
• Casey Neistat
• Sara Dietschy
• Chris Guillebeau
• Tim Ferriss
• Derek Sivers
• School of Greatness podcast
• Lewis Howes
• Dave Ramsey
• Michael Hyatt
• Cal Newport
• Crash Course
• John Green
• Hank Green
• Daily Content Machine
• Andrew D. Huberman
• Reboot
• Dan Putt
• Tiago Forte
• David Perell
• Jim Collins
• The Flywheel Effect
• Impact Theory podcast
• The Tim Ferriss show
• Seth Godin
• Scrivener
• James Clear

Ali Abdaal’s Links

• Follow Ali on Twitter
• Watch Ali on YouTube
• Check out Ali on Instagram
• Ali’s newsletter
• Ali’s website

Episode Transcript

[00:00:00] Ali:
YouTube can change your life, but you have to put out a video every single week for the next two years. If you do that, I guarantee you it’ll change your life. I can’t put any numbers on it. I can’t tell you how many subscribers you’ll have, or how much revenue you have, like a hundred percent guarantee.

You will change your life at the very least in terms of skills or connections or friends, or opportunities that will come your way as a result of posting consistently.

[00:00:30] Nathan:
In this episode, I talk to Ali Abdaal. Over the last four and a half years he’s built his YouTube channel from zero to 2 million subscribers.

He’s who all of my friends who are into YouTube turn to for advice. He’s got a paid course. He’s got a substantial email newsletter. He started out as a doctor and then has made the switch into a full-time YouTuber. So anyway, I’ll get out of the way, but, before we dive into the show, if you could do me a favor after the show: if you could go and subscribe on Spotify, iTunes, wherever you listen.

That helps with downloads. If you could also write a review, I really appreciate it.

Now it’s on to the show, with Ali.

Ali, welcome to the show.

[00:01:17] Ali:
Thanks for having me. This is really cool. I’ve been following you on the internet in a non-weird way since 2016. I remember once in, I think it was 2018, I discovered your 2015 podcast series all about launching an ebook, and pricing plans, and all this stuff.

It was so good. Now we’re looking to do eBooks and things like that. Thank you for all the inspiration on that front.

[00:01:46] Nathan:
Yeah, for sure. Well, it’s fun to have you on, it’s been fun to watch you grow. I was actually on a hike with our mutual friend, Sean McCabe after he moved to Boise, my hometown. He was talking about you, and I hadn’t come across your stuff yet. And I was like, oh, I gotta check it out.

And now I’m watching a whole bunch of videos. And then of course we’ve been internet friends for, for awhile now.

[00:02:08] Ali:
I’m now a customer of ConvertKit as well, for the last few months.

[00:02:11] Nathan:
Yeah. Let’s see. Okay. So I want to dive into your story and get some context because you have an interesting path of finishing school, like a substantial amount of schooling, and then diving into the world of being a doctor, and then transitioning out of it.

What was the plan? Let’s start.

[00:02:36] Ali:
Yeah. for a bit of context, I spent six years in medical school, and then two years working full-time as a doctor in the UK national health service before deciding to take a break. In that break I intended to travel the world, but then the pandemic happened and I ended up becoming a full-time creator on the internet by virtue of the fact that I didn’t have a job when it was a pandemic.

When I first decided to apply to med school, I’d been into the whole entrepreneurship thing since the age of 12. I learned to code. I started doing freelance web design and freelance web developer from age 13 onwards. So, in school, in high school, middle school, like we call it secondary school in the UK, I’d rush back home from school when I finished off my homework in record time, and then just be plugging away at like PHP or some HTML or some like jenky Java script. I used to make $5 here and there, and be like, yes, I’m, I’m making magical internet money. Every year when, when I was in, in high school, my friends and I would come up with a new business idea.

So, we started this multi-level marketing thing and some other rando...

Matt Ragland is a productivity expert and full-time content creator. He has worked for companies such as AppSumo.com, ConvertKit, and Podia. Matt graduated from the University of Florida with a bachelor’s degree in recreation & tourism management.

Matt was one of the earliest members of the team at ConvertKit, where he was employee number five. Since leaving ConvertKit to start his own company, he now hosts a podcast, publishes a newsletter, has created several courses, and hosts his own YouTube channel.

Matt prides himself on being a skilled manager and enjoys helping his clients and audience grow and develop their agencies. He is also the proud father of two boys and is a fitness enthusiast. Matt and his family live in Nashville, Tennessee.

In this episode, you’ll learn:

• Matt’s biggest revenue drivers as a content creator
• How to know when it’s time to take your side hustle full-time
• How to optimize your YouTube channel and content

Links & Resources

• Podia
• Ryan Delk
• Bryan Harris
• James Clear
• Sean McCabe
• Sean McCabe
• Levi Allen
• Casey Neistat
• Tim Ferriss
• Jeff Goins
• Ali Abdaal
• Marques Brownlee
• Roberto Blake
• heycreator.com

Matt Ragland’s Links

• Follow Matt on Twitter
• Watch Matt on YouTube
• Matt’s website
• Matt's newsletter

Episode Transcript

Matt: [00:00:00]
If you’re not sure if you want to do something, try it 10 times, and really give it a good try. Write 10 newsletters. Make 10 videos on YouTube. Record 10 podcasts. I have found that going from 10 to a hundred is definitely a slog, and there are lots of mini milestones, but once you do something a hundred times, you’re going to build momentum on it.

And you’re also going to build your own country.

Nathan: [00:00:30]
In this episode I talk to my long-time friend, Matt Ragland. So Matt joined ConvertKit really in the early days. He was employee number five, and he was here for the crazy ride. Then he started a YouTube channel. He led the customer experience team at another startup called Podia. He’s now as a full-time independent creator earning a living on his own.

We have a really fun conversation reminiscing about the early days talking about crazy rocket ship growth, and how we kept up. We get into earning a living as a creator. How he grew his YouTube channel to 60,000 subscribers. How to choose a niche, and when you should double down on that, and what’s getting traction on YouTube.

The last thing that we talk about is when, as a creator, you should quit your full-time job, and some of the nuances of that, so you can go full-time on your creative endeavor. So it’s a longer episode today because Matt and I just can’t help but tell stories.

With that, let me get out of the way and dive in.

Matt, thanks for joining me.

Matt: [00:01:31]
Oh, it’s such a pleasure. I’m thrilled to be here.

Nathan: [00:01:34]
I want to go back to, what year would it even be?

Matt: [00:01:40]
2015.

Nathan: [00:01:41]
2015? Okay.

Matt: [00:01:44]
Right around this time. Maybe a couple months later, but it was like late summer.

Nathan: [00:01:49]
So, it’s July, like yeah. And then July right now. Yeah, it would have been when we started talking, I’m thinking, what were you doing online around that time? Cause I started to come across you on Twitter.

I think Brian Delk was a mutual friend.

Is that right?

Matt: [00:02:06]
Yeah. Ryan Delk was a mutual friend. Brian Harris was a mutual friend. The way that we got actually directly connected is that I was on Brian’s email list. And I saw that you were doing a webinar with him to promote ConvertKit. And I had just signed up for ConvertKit as a customer, always like a little notch in the cap that I, I feel like I have of having like the three-digit user ID.

Nathan: [00:02:32]
Do you remember what your user ID is?

Matt: [00:02:33]
I used to know.

Nathan: [00:02:36]
In the three digits is pretty impressive.

Matt: [00:02:38]
Yeah. A three digit. Yeah, definitely.

Nathan: [00:02:41]
Now they’re well into the six digits.

Matt: [00:02:43]
Yeah, it’s wild. And so, I was familiar with ConvertKit. Certainly at that time it was like, okay, let me watch Nathan talk about it. What are the things that he thinks are important with it? Like some email building strategies? Because what I was really doing a lot of my online work at that time is I was doing two things.

I was doing some contract work with some other SaaS companies. In terms of an audience building creator standpoint, I was doing two things. One was that I was creating the sketch notes. And so like visual, visual art of like webinars, podcasts. And that’s what I would use to teach people how to take better notes so they could remember more of what they’re doing.

And it was a way to connect with other influencers because it was an attention grabbing thing. And so that was the main thing in terms of audience building and some course creation.

The other thing that I was doing that paid the bills a little bit better at that time was I was also helping people set up WordPress themes and websites.

At the time I would be like, oh yeah, you know, I kind of do some web development and then like, not really knowing like what all that meant. And then as I started to work more and more with actual developers, I would set up a theme online for people. But you also look at it and see that there’s still a pretty interesting intersection between like, how can you just do something relatively simple for people that either: A, they don’t have time to do, or B, they just don’t want to figure out because they just want to focus on their creative work.

And so that’s what I was doing summer 2015 at the time.

Nathan: [00:04:27]
Yeah. So then at the time we were, I think four people, five people on the, let me count,

Matt: [00:04:37]
I think it was four if I remember properly,

Nathan: [00:04:39]
Myself, mark, David, Dan.

Four. Yeah. and we were at 15,000 a month in revenue. Let’s see now I’m trying to think.

...

Sahil Bloom is Vice President at Altamont Capital Partners, a generalist investment fund managing over $2.5 billion in capital. At Altamont, Sahil helps lead the consumer products and services sector. Sahil also participates in board activities at Altamont’s portfolio companies Fox Racing, and Brixton.

Sahil is an angel investor in over 25 tech startups. He works with entrepreneurs and founders to build scalable and sustainable value for all stakeholders. Sahil also publishes a popular newsletter about business, mental models, economics, and more.

Sahil graduated from Stanford University with a bachelor’s degree in economics & sociology, and holds a master’s degree in public policy. While at Stanford, Sahil was a four-year member of the Stanford baseball team. Sahil is also a two-time recipient of the Bruce R. Cameron Memorial Award. This award honors students exhibiting excellence in athletics, academics, and leadership.

In this episode, you’ll learn:

• How Sahil went from 500 to 200,000 followers on Twitter in one year
• The emerging seven-figure opportunity Sahil sees for localized newsletters
• Sahil’s system for writing exceptional content
• The key difference between income-producing activities and wealth-producing activities

Links & Resources

• Packy McCormick
• Mario Gabriele
• Anthony Pompliano
• Fred Wilson
• Tomas Gomez
• a16z
• Future
• Synthesis School
• Hone
• Sequoia
• Benchmark
• QED Investors
• Ryan Holiday
• Notion
• Clayton Christensen Institute
• Pallet
• Patrick O'Shaughnessy
• Ben Thompson

Sahil’s Links

• Follow Sahil on Twitter: @SahilBloom
• The Curiosity Chronicle

Episode Transcript

Sahil: [00:00:00]
I think of writing and storytelling as foundational skills to your entire life. I mean, if you write well, it makes you better in every other area of your life. I think more clearly it exposes the gaps in your thinking so quickly. And that happened to me all on the way. Like the amount that I learned about investing by writing about investing was insane.

Nathan: [00:00:27]
This episode is with Sahil Bloom. So, Sahil, full-time is an investor. He’s a vice president at Altamont Capital Partners. On the side he has built a massive Twitter following over just the last year before we started the interview.

I had no idea that his 200,000 plus Twitter followers have been in the last 14 months, basically since COVID.

So, in this episode, we talk about growing a Twitter audience. We talk about all kinds of things. Sahil was a baseball pitcher for Stanford. And so we get into the new name/image/likeness rules for the NCAA.

What else? There’s all kinds of good stuf: his creative writing process, his mental models, how he thinks about income versus wealth. It’s the kind of episode that I absolutely love some.

So I’m going to get out of the way and let you listen to it. But really quick, if you’d do me a favor and go ahead and subscribe on Spotify, iTunes, wherever you listen to the podcast, and then write a review, I’d appreciate it. It will help the podcast reach a few more people.

So, all right. Let’s dive in.

Sahil, thanks for joining me.

Sahil: [00:01:34]
Yeah. Thanks for having me.

Nathan: [00:01:35]
Okay. So, I want to start with what you put in your bio, which is just three words, investor, educator, and storyteller. I like how concise you’ve got this down to things that describe you, but how do you think about the way that those three interact with you?

Sahil: [00:01:50]
You know, it’s it’s interesting. I tend to think that there is like a natural flywheel that is being created in real time around the universe of like investing, in the universe of creating. And you’re seeing it in real time with some of these, you know, creative capitalists for lack of a better way to put it.

Like Packy is one of my favorite writers, does an incredible job. Mario, over at the The Generalist. A lot of these folks, I mean, Pomp was one of the early ones to do it. A lot of these folks have built these scale platforms, these audiences, and then as a result of that, and as a result of the reach and the leverage that they’re able to get on, having that kind of owned audience in a certain extent, to a certain extent, they’re able to really support these companies.

And so, as an investor, as an advisor, you can kind of just create this natural flywheel around it, where your content creation and the creative work is the leading into, these really interesting investment and capitalists opportunities. And then because of those, you’re actually getting more content to write about.

It actually is creating this really unique, flywheel that I think we’re really in the early days of candidly, like, we’ve seen a lot of people starting to do it, but it’s very much the first inning in my opinion. And I think there’s a massive shakeout happening in the investment world because of it.

All of the VC is, and all of these growth equity funds are just starting to realize that in order to win deals, in order to be a part of these cap tables and really provide value, you know, they’ve said, how can we be helpful as like the joke moniker for a long time, but in order to really be helpful, you need to be able to do tangible things for the companies that you’re supporting and investing in.

And these creator capitalists, I do feel like have figured that out and I don’t put myself in the same ranks as those people that I mentioned at all. I’m kind of very green and new to this, but, it’s been fun to start see the early fruits of that.

Nathan: [00:03:42]
Yeah. It’s interesting to me. Cause you’ve seen for a long time, investors like, Fred Wilson, Tomas Gomez and others, like have these blogs or newsletters, you know, for a long time. And it’s gotten them incredible deal flow and reputation and everything else, but it does seem like there’s a new wave.

I don’t know if it’s just the next generation of creators doing this, but it’s much more Twitter forward rather than starting with a blog and a Twitter, a newsletter. do you see other continuations or differences between like sort of the previous generation in the second generation.

Sahil: [00:04:17]
Yeah. I mean, I think that the VC world has known this for a long time. like the early stage VCs in particular have known that. Audience and reach was a wedge for deal flow. And...

Charli Prangley is the Creative Director at ConvertKit. Charli has a bachelor's degree in design, with an emphasis on visual communication, from Massey University. Before working at ConvertKit, Charli worked as a designer for companies such as Mitsubishi Electric, Xero, and her own Liner Note Kids.

Born in New Zealand, Charli now lives in Valencia, Spain. She is passionate about helping creatives improve their craft and process, as well as working on her own side projects. 

When she’s not working at ConvertKit, Charli creates weekly content on her YouTube channel and podcast, Design Life, where she shares insights about working as a professional designer, and gives tutorials and advice on design tools and concepts.

In this episode, you’ll learn:

• How to balance your side hustle with a full-time job
• How Charli turns curiosities into money-makers
• Why newsletter creators need a YouTube presence
• Charli’s tips for getting more YouTube subscribers

Links & Resources

• ConvertKit
• Basecamp
• Webflow
• Johnnie Gomez
• Pallet
• Sahil Bloom
• The Bloomboard
• Jessica Hische

Charli’s Links

• Follow Charli on Twitter: @charliprangley
• Watch Charli on YouTube
• Design Life Podcast on Twitter: @DesignLifeFM
• Design Life Podcast website
• Charli’s website

Episode Transcript

Charli: [00:00:00]
I want to show people the real life of a professional designer; the projects that I work on, how I work on them, how I make decisions, the challenges that I run into along the way. That’s the kind of thing that I’m looking to share. And then that sort of lens frames all my content. Not just on YouTube; it’s also the newsletter, the book, anything I tweet, as well.

It sort of all comes from this.

Nathan: [00:00:31]
In this episode I talk to Charli Prangley. Charli is the Creative Director at ConvertKit. She and I have actually worked together for four-and-a-half years, and during that time, well, actually before she joined ConvertKit, she’d built a popular YouTube channel about design—specifically marketing design.

She’s at over 200 or right about 200,000 subscribers on YouTube, which incredible.

She’s got all kinds of projects.

In this episode, we dive into things about design. She and I are both designers, so we love those topics.

We talk about side hustles, and how you balance that with a full-time job. Her career, moving up the ladder, becoming Creative Director at ConvertKit, and all the other things she wants to create.

What gives her energy; what doesn’t.

We talk about sharing things about money online, and how that can be a tough topic.

She shares her income, she does videos about salary and making income from side hustles, so we talk about those details, and then we talk about as a newsletter creator, is YouTube something that you want to pursue?

And tips and tricks and ideas for that.

Anyway, I’ll get out of the way, and we’ll dive into the episode.

Charli, thanks for joining me:

Charli: [00:01:42]
Yeah. Thanks having me. I’m excited—honored to be on the Nathan Berry show.

Nathan: [00:01:47]
That’s right. I’m glad it gets that kind of enthusiasm.

Is only because we’ve worked together for so long?

Charli: [00:01:59]
Maybe, I don’t know, honestly, actually I’d probably more excited to be on if we hadn’t worked together for so long.

Nathan: [00:02:04]
That’s right. You’re actually like, “Fine, fine. I’ll come on your podcast. But to be clear, I’m doing it during works hours, and you’re paying for this.”

Charli: [00:02:12]
Yeah. This is a favor to you.

Nathan: [00:02:14]
Yeah. Whereas separately, because maybe if we hadn’t spent the last four years working together, then, then you’d actually really want to do it.

All right. Well, maybe let’s start there because we have spent the last four years working together, four-and-a-half.

Charli: [00:02:33]
Yeah.

Nathan: [00:02:33]
And yeah. So coming, approaching five this fall. The first thing that I want to ask you about is how you think about all the different things that you’re doing as a creator.

As I mentioned in the intro you’ve got, you know, the YouTube channel, you have a podcast, you have a newsletter and everything else.

And I, I just love to hear how you think about the intersection of those things. And then we can get into the intersection of a full-time role, and all the full-time creator things.

So what’s the, like Charli’s creative landscape?

Charli: [00:03:06]
Ooh, I like that. I would say that I’m aiming to make the kind of content that would have helped out, you know, like the me from two years ago.

And that’s kind of been my approach the whole time through. So when I started, maybe I was making stuff more for beginners, and every now and then I will still, but I’m trying to like level up my audience as well as I level up in my career.

And I love the term creator. I feel like it’s definitely the best way to describe me because I’m not just a YouTuber. I’m not just a podcaster, or just a blogger, or a writer, or whatever.

I do all the things like wherever I feel drawn to create in whichever method I feel like will best express the thing that I’m trying to teach or share is what I lean into.

Nathan: [00:03:49]
Yeah. that makes sense. Uh that’s how I feel, like, you can’t put me in a box.

Charli: [00:03:54]
Yeah, no. How dare you.

Nathan: [00:03:55]
The only box that I’m willing to accept is a giant all-encompassing freeform box of creator.

Charli: [00:04:01]
That molds, and like, changes shape as you do. Yeah.

Nathan: [00:04:04]
Yeah, exactly.

Okay. So you have all of these things. Maybe your most recent thing that I want to talk about is Inside Marketing or Inside Marketing Design is that marketing would be an entirely thing.

We’re talking Inside Marketing and Design. I’d love to hear first, why you wanted to start that, and maybe the seed, the direction a little bit.

I’ve heard you talk about like design being so focused. People either talk like graphic design, or they talk product design, you know. So, we’re like into user experience, user interface.

I’m curious how marketing design fits into that and your, your desires there?

Charli:

Robert Glazer is the founder and CEO of Acceleration Partners, a global marketing agency. Robert is also the co-founder and Chairman of BrandCycle, an affiliate marketing and content monetization platform.

Acceleration’s accolades under Robert’s direction include Glassdoor’s Employees’ Choice Awards, Entrepreneur’s Top Company Culture, Inc. Magazine’s Best Place to Work, and Fortune’s Best Small & Medium Workplaces. Robert is also the international bestselling author of four books: Elevate, Friday Forward, Performance Partnerships, and How To Thrive In The Virtual Workplace.

With a passion for helping entrepreneurs and organizations achieve success, Robert shares his insights in Friday Forward, an inspirational weekly newsletter reaching over 200,000 individuals and business leaders across 60+ countries. He is also a regular columnist for Forbes, Inc. and Entrepreneur on the subjects of performance marketing and entrepreneurship, company culture, hiring, and leadership.

Robert enjoys speaking on business growth, culture, mindful transitions, building capacity and performance, and spends his spare time skiing, cycling, reading, traveling, renovating his home, and spending time with his family.

In this episode, you’ll learn:

• The most important component for maximizing your content’s reach
• The necessity of giving your audience direct access to you
• Why the culture of your organization or brand is so important

Links & Resources

• Entrepreneurs' Organization
• “This Is the Only Newsletter I Always Read. Here's Why”
• Rad Reads
• Friday Four
• James Clear
• “How a CEO’s Inspirational Emails Got a Worldwide Following”
• Benjamin Hardy
• Tim Ferriss
• Malcolm Gladwell
• Danielle Steel

Robert Glazer’s Links

• Robert Glazer’s website
• Friday Forward
• Elevate Podcast
• Acceleration Partners
• Books by Robert Glazer
• Robert’s Twitter

Episode Transcript

Robert: [00:00:00]
Here’s how you should think about what is a mistake that you have permission to make: one of the things that was really helpful is we shared with the team a picture of a boat with a waterline, and said, “Look, the below-the-waterline stuff is going to sink the boat, the stuff that’s above the waterline, that’s not going to stink the ship. Let’s make mistakes, learn from them, and not make them again. What we really need you to do is watch the waterline.”

Nathan: [00:00:31]
In this episode, I talk to Robert Glazer, who built a newsletter called Friday Forward to a couple hundred thousand subscribers, which is really impressive.

But then he also did it while running a full-time business while running a team of over 200 people. They’re growing really quickly. The company is called the Acceleration Partners, and they are an agency that works with all the biggest affiliate programs out there. So it’s fascinating the way that he took the content, the way that he republished on LinkedIn and wrote for Forbes, and, Inc., and others.

We also get into other things like company culture. He runs a virtual team. We get into why he writes books and produces courses even as he’s running a multi-million dollar company. A lot of interesting things. There are questions that I’m asking kind of really for myself, because he has this interesting split of content creator and CEO, that I try to find that balance and walk that line as well.

It’s a phone conversation. We've been friends for a long time and, haven’t caught up in quite a while. So, it’s just fun to chat.

I hope you enjoy the episode.

Bob. Welcome to the show.

Robert: [00:01:34]
Good to be here.

Nathan: [00:01:36]
So I actually haven’t talked to you in a long time. I was just thinking back to,

Robert: [00:01:41]
Pre-COVID probably. And then we really

Nathan: [00:01:43]
Yeah, exactly. But we’ve had so many good conversations, like a few interesting things that we have in common is both running good sized firms, like as CEOs, and then also loving content creation and loving this side of it. So, I want to talk about all kinds of stuff related to that. But first, your newsletter Friday Forward, like, will you just tell high-level where that came from?

Because as I understand it, you didn’t set out to start a newsletter. You set out to create content for your team.

Robert: [00:02:12]
Yeah, and even set out to work on my morning routine. So, I actually had come from a leadership event, pretty intensive event that Entrepreneur’s Organization had put on. I think it’s until I started a long time. And then you realize you’ve got to change your dates like five, seven years ago now.

The real focus is on the morning routine, not the real focus, a big focus was on a morning routine, starting off the days. Because, you know, time for thoughtful reflection, reading something positive writing, which is a great routine for a creator anyway. And, we were given some stuff to read.

It was a little too like rainbow and unicorny like, “You can do it!” quotes. Like it wasn’t my cup of tea. And so I, when I got back and I continued through the routine, I was like, you know what, maybe, maybe I’ll combine these activities. I have some stories that I like and some quotes and some things in this folder.

Like, so I thought like our team was like 40 at the time, I think maybe 45 and we’re all distributed. We’ve always been virtual. And so I was like, I’ll just start writing this note to the team on Fridays. And it won’t be about our business or anything. It’ll be about a story or something kind of inspirational and motivational getting better.

Started sending these things, I changed the name a few times. For a couple of months I didn’t think anyone was reading them. Then I did get some notes back saying, you know what, I did this thing, you talked about three or four weeks ago, or, “Thanks, that was really helpful.” And the other curious thing was I got notes like, “Hey, I shared this with my wife’s company,” or, you know, “My brother shared this with his family. He loves it. I’ve been sending it to him.”

So, I was actually at another EO conference a couple months later talking with some other CEOs about like, this is, this has been really good. It’s been good for me. It makes me think about something, right.

It’s been a great way to connect to the team. You know, you, you should all try this. And they said, Oh yeah, well, se...

Ryan Sneddon is a self-described CEO and emperor of local news. Ryan is building a hyperlocal newsletter empire one city at a time, starting with Annapolis, MD.

Ryan’s newsletter, Naptown Scoop, is an email to the residents of Annapolis containing all pertinent news and events. It's an awesome community of residents and business owners coming together to be good neighbors.

Ryan has worked as an editor at The Daily Thread, as a business solutions consultant at Softdocs, and as an engineer for Grand Banks Yachts. Ryan has also worked as a project engineer at The Whiting-Turner Contracting Company.

Ryan studied mechanical engineering at the University of South Carolina, and also worked as a cinematographer and photographer. Ryan has done volunteer work building relationships with high school students while leading a team of other volunteers at Young Life.

In this episode, you’ll learn:

• How Ryan stays motivated when work gets overwhelming
• Ryan’s philosophy and tips for interacting with your audience 
• A great way to assess your growth and progress as a writer
• Ryan’s proven strategies for maximizing your social media engagement

Links & Resources

• From Boise
• AppSumo
• Viral Loops on AppSumo
• Jason Calacanis
• Annapolis Rotaract Club

Ryan Sneddon’s Links

• Ryan’s Twitter: @sneddymobbin
• Naptown Scoop

Episode Transcript

Ryan: [00:00:00]
First advice would just be to “get started.” Second advice would be, “don’t quit,” every day. Third advice (this is not specific to a local newsletter. I would say this to any newsletter, any brand, anyone ever) just be responsive.

The great thing about an email newsletter is that people can answer it: I can reply to an email cause it’s just a regular email. Answer every single one of those, because that’s how you build up a loyalty.

Nathan: [00:00:30]
In this episode I talk to Ryan Sneddon who runs Naptown Scoop, which is a local newsletter for the Annapolis region. I like it because I started a local newsletter called Boise, to just about a thousand subscribers. And, you know, Ryan and I were chatting back and forth on Twitter, just saying like, what ideas are we learning from each other?

He was giving me some advice and I was like, you know, I why don’t you just come on the podcast and share the story, share what you’re doing.

It’s pretty fun how it’s coming together. He’s working super, super hard on it, and we dive into all the details. So with that, I’ll get out of the way.

Ryan, thanks for joining me.

Ryan: [00:01:09]
My pleasure.

Nathan: [00:01:10]
So give us the 30-second pitch. What’s the newsletter, and then from there, we’ll dive into, “Why start a local newsletter?”

Ryan: [00:01:18]
My newsletter is called an Naptown scoop and the 30-second pitch; I could really do it in 10 seconds. It’s just everything you need to know about the town delivered straight to your inbox three times a week. And I would do it more if it were a bigger city, do it less if it were a smaller city, but that’s just kind of the perfect number of times that gets you all the information, but it’s not too much.

Nathan: [00:01:40]
Yeah, that sounds good. So what was the inspiration to start it?

Ryan: [00:01:43]
There’s another company. I mean, there’s a couple of companies now that are out there doing this, but I lived in Columbia, South Carolina after college. I went to college there and stayed a little bit extra. And there was a company there that did it and I really liked it. And then I moved away back here to home, and I didn’t have that.

And I was like, well, that was cool. I can’t be the only one that liked that. So I was like, I’ll just build it here. And, I wasn’t the only one that liked it. We were talking before we started recording. There’s not really a good original ideas in my head. So the fact that I wanted it was a good sign, because if I wanted it other people probably do, too.

Nathan: [00:02:17]
Yeah, that makes sense. I am fascinated by local newsletters. I started one on my own called From Boise.

Ryan: [00:02:27]
I get it; you got to see what everyone else is doing and your same space.

Nathan: [00:02:31]
Got to get some ideas. I saw Andrew Wilkinson do it in Victoria, British Columbia, which is one of my favorite cities to visit. And so I saw him do that and I was like, oh, well I love Boise as much as he loves Victoria, and wanted to do some local projects. So, so, it’s been fun, but maybe before we dive into the growth and all of that, what are some of the favorite moments from running it where you’re like, “Oh, this is actually pretty sweet?”

Ryan: [00:02:59]
There’s a lot. One just happened last week. I think it was, it’s been like a really long, last two weeks; has been a really super full and, I don’t use the “B” word. I don’t say “busy.” I’m not allowed to, but it’s been like a really full on hundred miles an hour, 20 hours a day, kind of lasts two weeks now.

Like sometimes—no joke—sometimes more than that. But last Thursday night I was delivering cookies to people who bought shirts, because I made some shirts to sell for the brand. And I said I was going to deliver cookies to the first or 10 out of the first hundred orders, which was like super ambitious of me.

I didn’t even think about the fact that like, I would have to sell a hundred shirts for that to happen. and I only sold 10 shirts. So I delivered the 10 cookies to the first 10 people instead of 10 out of the first hundred. But I’m delivering cookies to this one, and I just emailed everybody and said, if you’re not home, can I leave it in the mailbox?

And they were like, yeah, our mailbox is a giant stone pillar at the front of the driveway. And I was like, giant stone pillar? Like, this is probably a pretty nice house. And so I put in the GPS and I’m like, oh yeah, this is a waterfront looking pretty good. I roll up to the house and it’s gorgeous.

It’s probably like this three to $4 million house. I can look at it and kind of think I know who the architect is, because she’s pretty famous around the area. And as I’m putting these cookies in the giant mailbox, they roll up and they like the car honks, and they roll down the window. It was an Uber, they rolled out of the back windows and they’re like, “You must be Ryan!”

And I was like, “Yeah!” And they were like, “Do you have time to come in for a drink?” And I’m like, “Yeah, why not?” it’s 9:45 at night. No, it wasn’t, it wasn’t a Thursday. I think it was a Wednesday because if it was Thursday, I would have had to go home and write the email for Friday. But since it was Wednesday, I didn’t have to get one out to the next day.

So I was like, “Yeah, I have time for a drink!” And I ended up sitting on their back porch for two hours, drinking wine, just talking about their life, my life, the business, the guy, it was just the ...

Cherie Hu is an accomplished musician, an award-winning writer, a columnist, entrepreneur, and self-described “professional overthinker.” Cherie specializes in analyzing, tracking and critiquing innovation in the global music business.

Cherie earned her bachelor’s degree in statistics from Harvard, studied piano and music theory at The Juilliard School, and has taught as an Adjunct Professor at New York University. Cherie has worked for Forbes, Billboard, and Music Business Worldwide.

Cherie is also the founder of Water & Music. Water & Music is an independent newsletter, research hub and community forum that is “dedicated to unpacking the fine print of commercial, technological and cultural change in the industry.”

The Water & Music newsletter reaches over 10,000 free subscribers and 1,000 paying members. Subscribers represent numerous industries: music, film, fashion, advertising, gaming, investment banking, venture capital and more.

In this episode, you’ll learn:

• How to leverage your life experience to dramatically improve your newsletter  
• Why freelance writers should focus on a core group of clients
• Why your audience needs a dedicated venue to find your content

Links & Resources

• Zack Greenburg
• Forbes
• Billboard
• Music Business Worldwide
• Revue
• Greg Isenberg
• Kendrick Lamar Meets Quincy Jones on Hypebeast
• ConvertKit Creator Sessions
• Spotify Greenroom
• Twitter Spaces
• Tim McGraw
• Arnold Schwarzenegger’s newsletter

Cherie’s Links

• Cherie’s Twitter Page: @cheriehu42
• Water & Music
• Water & Music on Twitter: @water_and_music
• Water & Music on Patreon
• Cherie’s LinkedIn
• “Five Lessons From My First Year of Running a Patreon Page”

Episode Transcript

Cherie: [00:00:00]
A 2015 interview between Kendrick Lamar and Quincy Jones, and Quincy Jones says the last two things to leave this planet will be Water and Music. I was just watching, and I heard that and it just immediately clicked with me. It’s been called a universal language for a reason. I liked that concept of always having that at the center, even of conversations about the business side.

Nathan: [00:00:30]
In this episode, I talked to Cherie Hu. Cherie is an entrepreneur journalist writer, and she writes about the intersection between music and technology. She has this popular newsletter in a community called Water & Music. We have a lot of fun talking about how she grew the newsletter, her journey from piano performance, through to math and then into journalism. We spend a lot of time in this episode on some trends in the industry, not just, crypto and things like that, but also, Spotify and podcasts, and how the world of music and podcasts and newsletters is all intertwined. It’s a fun episode.

There’s a little less hard hitting tactics of, “Do this next to the newsletter,” and a lot more on: this is what’s going on in the industry and what you should pay attention to.

Those are some of my favorite episodes, and this one is pretty great. So let’s dive in.

Cherie. Thanks for joining me.

Cherie: [00:01:25]
Thank you so much for having me, excited to be here.

Nathan: [00:01:27]
All right. So I want to start with your love for music and the music industry. Where did that come from? You went to Juilliard for piano performance. Tell me more about it.

Cherie: [00:01:41]
Yeah, sure. Yeah. It almost feels like a past life at this point. Right? I guess to be more specific about that, I did the Juilliard pre-college program. It’s like a weekend program out of conservatory. And did that throughout high school where I would go to Juilliard, to the city on Saturdays, do private lessons, have classes in music theory, chamber music.

And that, that was my path for a while, to just go to conservatory for piano and study that, and be a full-time performing pianist ideally. Very, very different from what I do now, but, still very near and dear to me. A lot of my closest friends, I kind of made in that environment, very intense, but fun environment.

So, I guess my first and most intense involvement growing up with music was definitely on the performing and on the creative. At the same time academically, I was really into math and I was on the math team, did math competitions in school. I ended up majoring in stats in college, taking a lot of math and stats classes, but at the same time, a lot of music classes, and from a very early stag, trying to think about where those two worlds intersected.

So, because I was more like a performer initially, I was thinking, applying math to music theory. I think that’s still a really interesting like application area. I guess also in spite of learning, studying piano for 10 to 15 years, I wasn’t even aware of the scope of what the music industry involved in terms of the jobs that were possible, the new kinds of jobs that were emerging, until I would say 2013, 2014.

That’s when I had the opportunity just to explore, this career path, to do a two week, two to three weeks shadowing experience at Interscope. It was with their A&R team. In terms of like actual like tasks, I didn’t do that much because it was a short amount of time, but just that experience opened my mind, even to things like, like real questions, like what is A&R?

I didn’t really know what that was before, being in the middle of it. And also at that time streaming had been around for a while, but I think that period of time was really when Spotify had just launched in the U S, and it’s really starting to pick up; Apple music with launch just a year or two later.

So, the whole conversation around like who the main players were in streaming was also changing pretty drastically at that time. So, timing also plays a huge role in my journey to where I got to now. So, it’s kind of through that. I realized I was interested in maybe applying like my academic interests on the staff side to more of a data analyst, or data-facing role in the music industry, whether that’s at a label streaming service, music startup, et cetera. So, did a handful of internships kind of in that world, did some academic research on the music business from a tech perspective.

So, especially looking at music, startups, and I’m super randomly at a career fair that my friend dragged me to, I very serendipitously read into my first freelance gig. I happened to meet an e...

Jack Butcher is the founder of Visualize Value, a design, consulting, and educational company in New York City.

Jack spent 10 years working in advertising for Fortune 100 companies as a creative director for multi-billion dollar brands that include Amazon, Nokia, McDonald’s, and Mercedes-Benz. It was a job he found enjoyable but constraining.

In search of freedom, Jack started his own advertising agency, which he describes as “No fun, and even less freedom.” However, after two years of iteration, Jack figured out how to transition to highly specialized (and fun) consulting, and a product business that scales infinitely.

Visualize Value is the product of that transition, a project Jack has used to build a network of mentors, a $1M/year product business, and a media platform with an audience of over 500,000 people.

In this episode, you’ll learn:

• How to use your unique skills to stand out on social media
• Why repetition in your design is the fastest way to build your brand
• How designing for niche markets makes your job much easier
• How to scale your business without compromising quality

Links & Resources

• DHH on Twitter: @dhh
• Jason Fried on Twitter: @jasonfried
• Basecamp
• Nick Huber on Twitter: @sweatystartup
• David Perell on Twitter: @david_perell
• Write of Passage
• Brian Norgard on Twitter: @BrianNorgard
• Anthony Pompliano on Twitter: @APompliano
• Maven Adviser

Jack Butcher’s Links

• Jack’s website: Visualize Value
• Jack’s email newsletter: VV/155
• Jack’s Twitter: @jackbutcher
• Visualize Value merchandise
• Visualize Value on Twitter: @visualizevalue
• Jack’s Instagram: @jckbtchr
• Visualize Value on Instagram: @visualizevalue 
• Build Once, Sell Twice

Episode Transcript

Jack: [00:00:00]
You build something digital that runs on code or media, and can be served up infinitely at zero cost replication to you, something like a product or an information product you build at once, and you can sell it to a hundred, a thousand, 10,000, a hundred thousand people. The bulk of the value is created once.

And then just becomes a game of how effective are you at spreading that story and reaching people that need the thing that you’ve done. 

Nathan: [00:00:37]
In this episode, I talk to Jack Butcher. Jack has a really interesting visual style where he’s taking these complex concepts: it could be leverage, it could be this idea of build once, sell twice (that I’m super jealous of by the way), how he framed that… any of these things, he takes them and distills them down to these graphics:

Black background, white text, white line drawings, slightly pixelated looking. It’s very distinct style and he’s used it to build a massive following; well-over a hundred thousand followers in social media, he built his email list, he’s doing fantastic revenue from courses. So, we dive in on what it takes to be unique.

How a lot of marketing Twitter, you know, marketers talking about marketing is repetitive. A lot of people don’t have a unique angle on it. And so how he makes unique content that’s more interesting and engaging and stands out.

How constraints really drive that.

We talk about a lot of other things, exactly how he makes money and monetization. There’s a lot of great stuff, who inspires him, so much more. 

Jack’s someone that I’ve wanted to have on this show since I started it. And so I’m very excited to talk to Jack. 

Let’s dive in. Jack, thanks for talking with me today.

Jack: [00:01:49]

Thank you for having me, man. I appreciate it. 

Nathan: [00:01:51]
Okay. I feel like so many people on the internet are—especially in the content marketing audience growth space—are doing the exact same thing as other people, you know, it’s just like, it’s similar playbook. Everyone’s going over it repeatedly. The amazing thing is that it still works. You don’t actually have to innovate that much to make like a hundred grand a year or more on the internet, which is mind blowing, but then you come out and you actually have like a really unique visual style.

You’re doing something different instead of just like another random tweet thread, or like summarizing the same quotes that everyone else is doing. It feels like you’re doing something unique. And in, you know, in these little graphics, you’re explaining these same concepts that everyone else has talked about, but in a really condensed format.

So, I’m curious, well, one, let’s just start with where that came from, and then I want to get into like what you think other people should do to differentiate and not be the same. Like, you know, it’s just copying everybody else.

Jack: [00:02:52]
Yeah, sure, so very quick background. I studied design in school, graduated in 2010. That was in the UK. I moved to New York and started working agency jobs in basically every different capacity. So design art direction, creative direction, worked for small boutique agencies that would build like, small brands to big global behemoths at work on like.

Multinational billion dollar brand campaigns. And one of the skills, one of the skills I built up, I think, across all of those experiences was working on pitch decks. So what all of these different ad agencies have in common is you have to tell compelling stories to get the opportunity to work on a project.

But the pitch deck is kind of a work in the agency, right? Nobody wants to be the last one in work on the pitch deck, waiting for everybody’s emails to say include this, include this. So, early in my career I sort of got stuck with that by default, but for whatever reason, not quite into it quite, enjoyed the process of distilling all of these different people’s ideas that would come at you from all different parts of an agency or trying to convey something to a business.

Basically tell their story back to them in a more compelling way than they’ve ever heard it told. And that’s essentially what gets you the opportunity to work on these projects? So, yeah, a lot of late nights working on pitch decks was the, I think the eventual catalyst for visualized value as a style, I went through a ton of iterations to get there.

Worked at agencies for eight years, started my own agency and then slowly narrowed down the type of work I was doing as an agency to that really, , specific aesthetic and that very specific deliverable. So before visualize value was a media company, it was a very hig...

Alex Lieberman is the co-founder and chairman of Morning Brew. Morning Brew is a media company bringing informative and digestible business news to your inbox every morning. They educate nearly 3,000,000 daily readers on the latest news from Wall Street to Silicon Valley.

Alex also hosts The Founder’s Journal Podcast where he gives listeners a “backstage pass” into building Morning Brew, and in turn, helps them build a better business or career.

Morning Brew is considered to be the largest email newsletter on the web. Business Insider recently acquired a major stake in Morning Brew at a rumored valuation of over 75 million dollars. 

In this episode, you’ll learn:

• The foundations for building a great media brand
• What methods and metrics work best for rapid subscriber growth
• How to optimize a referral program to gain explosive growth
• How to be the leader your employees need as you scale

Links & Resources

• Business Insider
• Kara Goldin’s LinkedIn page
• Hint Water
• Pat Flynn
• Pat Flynn: Why I Switched from AWeber to Infusionsoft to ConvertKit
• KickoffLabs
• Viral Loops
• Robinhood
• Tim Ferriss
• Harry’s Razors
• Lenny Rachitsky
• Packy McCormick

Guest’s Links

• Alex’s LinkedIn page
• Morning Brew
• Founder’s Journal podcast
• Morning Brew Accelerator (MB/A)
• Alex’s Twitter: @businessbarista

Episode Transcript

Alex: [00:00:00]
That’s the beautiful thing about just business in general, this diversity of what brings people joy. People who love building process and planning who have a foundation and building on top of that foundation. You have people who have zero foundation. They want to prove to the world and prove to themselves that the crazy thing that’s been in their head that they think is valuable, there’s no proof of yet, that the actually people will love it.

Nathan: [00:00:30]
In today’s episode, I talked to Alex Lieberman, who is the co-founder, and now chairman—formerly CEO—and now chairman of Morning Brew. They grew the newsletter to over 3 million subscribers, which is insane. Making it the largest email newsletter on the web. So if we’re talking about newsletters on this podcast who better to talk to than Alex.

We get into why he transitioned from CEO to chairman. We talk about the exit: they sold a majority of the company to Business Insider rumored at over a $75 million valuation, which is really, really impressive. One of the things we talk about the channels that drove growth, their affiliate program, the referral program that so many people talk about and reference, what works, what doesn’t.

We get his take on sponsorships versus paid content, details on the type of ads that they used in their paid acquisition when they were growing Morning Brew, so much.

Anyway, there’s a lot of good stuff. I’ll get out of the way. Let’s dive in.

Alex, thanks for joining me.

Alex: [00:01:32]
Thanks so much for having me, pumped to do this.

Nathan: [00:01:34]
All right. So I want to start with, your role has shifted. You just moved from CEO of Morning Brew to chairman. And tell me a little bit about that.

What, what instigated it. What made it time for that move? I know a lot of people who have run companies for years consider a move like that.

Alex: [00:01:52]
There’s many months in the making. and I think in a lot of ways, the last year has kind of been like a unspoken transition, based on just the things that I was spending my time on and the things my co-founder Austin was spending his time on. You know, I think the, the way that I think about it is I loved—I’ve loved every part of Morning Brew, but like the things that have really given me energy is when I am building things from scratch, I love building things from scratch.

And that’s what I was able to do in, in the early days of the Brew, you know, our original newsletter, our B2B newsletters, our podcasts, like really creating the foundation for something that could obviously become a large media brand. As we’ve scaled, obviously like, you know, you’ve, I’m sure experienced this in your role, the roles of a CEO change 50 different times.

And so the way, you know, the way I think about it is the first role that I had at Morning Brew was every role Austin. And I had every role. I always tended to lean more towards sales, marketing, and content, like more the creative and people facing side of the business. Austin always, spend more time on growth product, and like the finance, the finances of the business.

And so I wore many different hats and I loved doing those things. And then as we started to grow, as we got the flywheel going of creating great newsletter content, attracting audience and monetizing our audience through advertising. My role shifted. And I went from a hundred percent doing to what I would say is like 50% doing, and 50% managing.

And I really enjoyed managing, like I loved, I loved coaching people, supporting people, but what I also learned pretty early on in Morning Brew is that managing there, there were aspects of managing that I loved, and there are many aspects of managing that I didn’t love. The way I think about managing is I think there’s two aspects to managing there’s call it like leadership and there’s operational management, operational management, really being about.

Like goal setting, metric checking, and making sure that you’re holding someone accountable to continuing to do the job they’re supposed to do really important job for a manager. Then on the flip side, I would say the leadership side of managing is kind of the empathetic management part, which is how do you support someone in their career growth?

How do you talk to someone about the things that are impacting them in their job performance, whether it’s things within their career or things in their personal life that are coming into their career, because that inevitably obviously happens as well. And what I realized is I really loved the second thing.

I didn’t necessarily really loved the first thing. The reason I bring that up is because as we’ve scaled as Morning Brew, let’s say got to 50 people and. And at 50 people, we really, that was the point in time when we had to go from bein...

Eric Jorgenson is a writer, course creator, blogger, and podcaster. He is also on the founding team of Zaarly, an online marketplace for hiring home service providers.

Eric has been publishing online since 2014, and operates a monthly newsletter. His business blog, Evergreen, has educated and entertained over a million readers.

Eric is the author of The Almanack of Naval Ravikant: A Guide to Wealth and Happiness. Naval Ravikant is an entrepreneur, philosopher, and investor. Naval's principles for building wealth and creating long-term happiness have captivated the world.

The Almanack of Naval Ravikant is a collection of Naval’s wisdom and experience from the last ten years. It's a curation of his most insightful interviews and poignant reflections.

Eric’s current project, Building a Mountain of Levers, teaches “how to accomplish superhuman feats by playing a different game — building leverage.”

In this episode, you’ll learn:

• The most important things to do when starting a newsletter
• What leverage is, and how to use it to exponentially scale your business
• How a random tweet blossomed into Eric’s best-selling book

Links & Resources

• The Almanack of Naval Ravikant
• Naval Ravikant’s podcast
• @FAKEGRIMLOCK
• Ben Caballero
• Rework
• Anything You Want: 40 Lessons for a New Kind of Entrepreneur
• Peter Bevelin
• Poor Charlie's Almanack: The Wit and Wisdom of Charles T Munger
• Berkshire Hathaway Letters to Shareholders

Eric Jorgenson’s Links

• Eric’s website: ejorgenson.com
• Twitter: @EricJorgenson

Episode Transcript

Eric: [00:00:00]
Munger said the best thing a human being can do is to help someone else to know more. Everyone has something to teach. Everyone can participate as a student and as a teacher at different points in their lives. There’s always somebody who’s one step ahead of you to learn from, and always somebody who’s one step behind you that you can help.

I think counseling and learning keeps us humble and keeps life exciting. Teaching is rewarding. The fact that we can all kind of be a part of it is really fun.

Nathan: [00:00:29]
In this episode, I talked to Eric Jorgensen, who is the author of one of my favorite books. It’s actually the book that I have gifted the most recently, and that is The Almanack of Naval Ravikant, which is a distillation of the wisdom writing podcast episodes of Naval. So Eric did this awesome project where you compile all this edited down into a book.

And I know we talked about that at the end of the episode, but throughout the episode, we talk about online education, leverage—we spend a lot of time talking about leverage—which is sort of this thing that Naval has really made the centerpiece to a lot of his content that he’s produced.

Eric has gone even further and produced a course on and talked about so much great stuff. Really important concepts that I think you’re really gonna enjoy. So I’ll get out of the way and we’ll just dive in.

Eric, thanks for joining me.

Eric: [00:01:18]
Thanks for having me. You’re on like the Mount Rushmore of heroes of like bootstrappers, turned content creators, turned bootstrappers. So like I’m super excited to be talking to you in any context. This is going to be fun.

Nathan: [00:01:30]
Well, good. And now, now I’m curious who else is on Mount Rushmore?

Eric: [00:01:33]
I knew you were going to ask me that. And I don’t, I, I don’t know. I have not prepared for it, but we can start Photoshopping it up later.

Nathan: [00:01:41]
Yeah, exactly. That’d be a really good use of both of our time.

Reading through all of your stuff online, you are obsessed with education, specifically online education. You’ve got Course Correctly where you’re like reviewing online courses with a friend of yours.

You’ve got like there’s a lot going on and you truly care a lot about the details of online education, and I’m curious, like why, where does that come from? Where does the interest turn into obsession?

Eric: [00:02:12]
So long-term I think like going to Mars is awesome, and curing cancer is awesome, and like solving world hunger is awesome. But education is the variable with the biggest coefficient into all of those things over the long term. So, like all of us who are alive right now are kind of like, Oh God, we’ve got to solve all these problems that are like affecting us.

But if we just kind of look at the species over like a few hundred years or a few thousand years, like our ability to educate ourselves. And then the next generation is like a huge, huge, heavily weighted variable. I guess into like the outcome that we achieve over a long period of time and like how we can affect that.

And I think like there’s no, you know, the, the first principles kind of like where’s the laws of physics limitedness is like, we have the ability to be so much better at education than we are, and we are. There’s some specific context where we’re incredible educators. Like our doctors are incredibly well-educated; the rigor of like a pilot’s education or doctor’s education compared to, you know, somebody who maybe like a writer, like different creative pursuits or do an MBA, like is just, we’re just missing easy opportunities to kind to become significantly better.

And the internet lowers the cost of that and increases the accessibility of it. And so I think we’re going to see like a really kind of cool transformation of that over our lifetimes. I was excited to kind of see it, see it come together.

Nathan: [00:03:40]
Yeah. So what I hear in that is there’s individual pursuits, you know, that will like advanced civilization. You know, in like one very specific and highly effective area, but then education is like the rising tide for everything of like, if you can help people teach well, you know, learn well, any of those things and make those, those tools and Content, everything available, then that can go in any, any, and every direction.

Eric: [00:04:09]
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, like Munger said, like the best thing that human being can do is to like help someone else to know more. And I think that’s a really, like everyone has something to teach and. We are all trying to learn. And, it’s something that everyone can participate in as a student and as a teacher at different points in their lives.

And there’s always somebody who’s like one s...