What does education do? Whose needs are being met by education? What does education mean to different people? Why did schooling fall short in providing equality of opportunity? Vishal Vasanthakumar joins us in this episode to illustrate the complex issues involved in the provision and purpose of education in India. 

References: 

Kamaladevi Chattopadhyay stands among very few freedom fighters who imagined 'Freedom' in transnational terms meaning to end exploitation everywhere and of every form. She espoused an expansive idea that will contribute to individual as well as collective growth and evolution. Very few Indians could match her in terms of her travels to countries across the world (England, Germany, Denmark, China, Japan, United States, Srilanka, etc), the relations she forged with leaders worldwide and the multiple fields she straddled in(nationalist politics, socialist politics, women’s movement, education, refugee rehabilitation, theatre, cinema, renewal of handicrafts). 

In this episode, I am in conversation with Nico Slate to talk about his recent biography ‘Kamaladevi Chattopadhyay: The Art of Freedom’. 

Nico Slate is a Professor of History and Head of the Department of History at Carnegie Mellow University. His research focuses on democracy and social movements in the United States and India. He is the author of six books: The Art of Freedom: Kamaladevi Chattopadhyay and the Making of Modern India (HarperCollins India and the University of Pittsburgh Press, 2024); Brothers: A Memoir of Love, Loss, and Race (Temple University Press, 2023); Lord Cornwallis Is Dead: The Struggle for Democracy in the United States and India (Harvard University Press, 2019); Gandhi’s Search for the Perfect Diet: Eating with the World in Mind (University of Washington Press, 2019); The Prism of Race: W.E.B. Du Bois, Langston Hughes, Paul Robeson and the Colored World of Cedric Dover (Palgrave Macmillan, 2014); and Colored Cosmopolitanism: The Shared Struggle for Freedom in the United States and India (Harvard University Press, 2012). 

In this episode, I am in conversation with Rahul De, to discuss the key ideas in his book ‘A History of Economic Policy in India: Crisis, Coalitions and Contingency’. Rahul takes us through the meaning of economic history and the need for studying it. He situates industrial development in colonial India and its integration with the global economy. Rahul meticulously and candidly explores the failure of the Indian variant of planning, the reality of the green revolution and changes in voting behaviour, the evolution of liberalisation, and defining what can make a coalition government successful. Don’s miss this episode. 

References:

In this episode, I am in conversation with Rahul Ramagundam to talk about his book, ‘The Life and Times of George Fernandes’.

George was a rare individual in politics, who did not care about his self-image or about leaving behind a legacy. His life was his legacy. In 1984, in a note exchanged with Jaya Jaitly, he writes, “There is a commitment to a cause that is much bigger than ourselves, howsoever hopeless that cause may look, and howsoever inadequate we may appear to be in fighting that cause—the cause of remaking our country”- a statement that reflects how his only commitment is to ‘remaking our country’.

A photograph of George “with a defiant fist of a shackled hand raised above the proud bespectacled face, jaw clenched, beads of perspiration trickling down his forehead, veins standing out on his throat” taken when he was held by the police during Emergency symbolised his iron-will to protect the nation from sliding into a dictatorship. That image also motivated Rahul Ramagundam to write a biography of George, which took him 12 years. His book is a superb biography which reads like a novel tracing the trajectory of Indian politics post-Independence. More specifically, this book narrates the complex story of the Socialist Party in many forms till its demise in 1977. The author writes, “Now, it can be said, safely perhaps and with impeccable historical hindsight, that the fate of the political organization, founded in 1934 and annihilated in 1977, was doomed at its very genesis. The ideological choices that it made, the political trajectory it took, the power games that it so ambitiously unfolded, had just one end and that was its end. Of course, between what was founded in 1934 and what went bust in 1977, two years before the death of its veteran leader JP (in that sense, it was with JP that the party was born and died), there were a series of tragic mishaps that define socialism in India”. 

George was a man of action, around the clock. Madhu Dandavate called him an “impulsive leader who crossed reasonable limits all the time”. But he holds many other qualities. Narrating about George’s role in the trade union movement, Rahul writes, “Aggression, commitment and dedication would be staples on which he would build one success after another. His passionate commitment, his sharp oratory, his diligence, unmindful of personal comfort, all drew municipal workers in a body, undivided by primordial loyalties or professional categories. Within a very short time, with an iron-hot determination, by overcoming their constricting categories, he succeeded in welding a disparate municipal workforce into one dedicated organization. Nothing could stop him any more, not even the challenging condition of massive unemployment”. He was someone who “revelled in action soaked in the swear of the working people”. George was also not someone who wasted his time on ideological debates but was more focused on creating an impact for his people. He was not a ‘static’ politician, but someone who responded to changing times.

In this episode, Rahul Ramagundam discusses the complex story of George Fernandes, his socialist party, Indira Gandhi’s Emergency, his relationship with his wife, his role as a cabinet minister, and his religion. We also discuss the trials and tribulations of a biographer in India- the journey of Rahul Ramagundam in trying to access a variety of sources and the importance of sorting and making archives available easily for researchers. 

References: 

The Dream of a Revolution: A Biography of Jayaprakash Narayan by Bimal Prasad and Sujata Prasad 

Books by Rahul Ramagundam: The Life and Times of George Fernandes (2022), Including the Socially Excluded: India’s Experience with Caste, Gender and Poverty (2017) and Gandhi’s Khadi: A History of Contention and Conciliation (2008)

Gandhi: The Years that Changed the World by Ramachandra Guha

Gandhi as Mahatma: Gorakhpur District, Eastern UP, 1921-2 by Shahid Amin, Subaltern Studies Volume- III

Works in Progress: A Struggle to Publish BR Ambedkar’s Writing by Aathira Konikkara

In Pursuit of Ambedkar: A Memoir by Bhagwan Das

The Great Indian Coalition: What the Mahagathbandhan leaders can learn from Ram Manohar Lohia by Akshaya Mukul

Chaudhuri Charan Singh: An Indian Political Life by Paul R Brass

Paul R Brass: An Indian political life: Charan Singh and Congress Politics (Volume 1,2,3)

In this episode, I am in conversation with Professor Rajshree Chandra, to talk about her book, ‘Competing Nationalism: The Sacred and Political Life of Jagat Narain Lal’, the biography of her grandfather. Jagat Babu was a key leader in the Indian National Congress and played an important role in national movement, especially in Bihar. He was also a member of the Constituent Assembly and minister for Law and Animal Husbandry in the Bihar government post-independence. In her work, Rajshree traces the life and ideas of Jagat Babu and shows us how his life as a microcosm reflects the trajectory of Indian nationalism and the dilemmas of nationalists. She narrates the journey of Jagat Babu through four pathways: Ascetic, Hindu Nationalist, Anti-Colonial and Civic nationalisms. Rajshree talks about how Jagat Babu navigated through and sometimes attempted to refashion these four pathways. Towards the end, Rajshree reflects on forms taken by these nationalisms in contemporary times. This episode will leave us with several lessons to reflect upon. 

Rajshree Chandra is a professor of political science at Janki Devi Memorial College, Delhi University, and is a senior visiting fellow at Centre for Policy Research.

In this episode, I am in conversation with Dr Dev Nath Pathak⁠ about his new paper titled 'COVID-19 Cuts in Sociology of South Asia', published in Economic and Political Weekly.

Pathak spoke with absolute candour about the tradition of crisis mongering in social sciences, obsession with positivism, need for writing a very honest and hard-hitting polemics on the academic conferences, offered a critique on nation-building and the cancel culture in academia. He laments on how many of  the academic conferences in South Asia and other parts of the world have became big talk-shows where one might not witness any real intellectual disputes. Admitting to the institutional constricts present, he calls upon scholars to taking risks and finding ways forward, raising above existential anxieties- “who has stopped individual scholar from practicing intellectual freedom”. He also reminds us of the history of social sciences in the beginning where these was openness to learn from different sources, and how the long drawn process of standardisation of the discipline forced scholars to stick to the new boundaries. These and many other things….I admire his frankness and I am certain, this conversation with be a source of delight and deep introspection to all the listeners. 

Towards the end, Pathak suggests two songs to listen to after you finish this podcast: I have a Dream by Abba, Circle of Life from The Lion King. Don’t miss them. 

Dev Nath Pathak⁠⁠ teaches at the Department of Sociology, South Asian University, New Delhi. His books include In Defence of the Ordinary: Everyday Awakenings and To Be or Not to Be Sociological: Methodological Ways of Seeing (forthcoming).

In this episode, I am in a short conversation with author, translator and medical officer Hansda Sowvendra Shekhar, where we reflect on some key themes that influenced and informed his works. 

His debut novel, The Mysterious Ailment of Rupi Baskey, won the Sahitya Akademi Yuva Puraskar award in 2015. His second book, The Adivasis Will Not Dance: Stories, is a path-breaking text in subaltern and post-colonial literature. He recently translated ‘Kaale Adhyaay’ by Manoj Rupda from Hindi to English, titled I named my sister Silence. 

He also authored several interesting essays in leading newspapers and magazines. My favourites: Leaving the egg for the end, Discrimination-eva Jayate and A Blooming Garden. 

Also, read A Poem for the Ol-Chiki - by Sokhen Tudu - translated from Santhali to English by Sowvendra, illustrating how the Santhali language became a ground for conflict between three different scripts: Roman, Deanagari, and Ol-Chiki.

In the first episode, I am in conversation with Aakash Singh Rathore, philosopher, biographer and Ironman triathlete to discuss his Volume 1 of Dr. B.R. Ambedkar's biography, Becoming Babasaheb: The Life and Times of Bhimrao Ramji Ambedkar: Birth to Mahad (1891-1929).

Audio Editor: Niveditha

Welcome to Navigating India

India is an unnatural nation accommodating multitudes and sustaining a million mutinies. Through conversations with authors, academics, activists and thinkers, this podcast attempts to navigate through the story of this complex nation and its people.

Background Music credit ℗ 1982 BMG Music