The Neophytes Talk Tariffs

In this inaugural episode of The Neophytes, longtime friend Thomas Mabey and I talk tariffs: what Trump is trying to do, why he's trying to do it, and whether all of this is likely to work. Thomas and I aren't experts—that's kind of the whole point. We recorded the conversation on April 5, 2025; if we recorded it again today, it would be different, and not just because it would be awfully hard to repeat everything we said word for word. We have more information now (whenever “now” happens to be”) than we did then—the story has continued to develop, and we’ve kept reading.

The message we’re trying to convey is that it’s okay not to know; it’s okay to keep learning; and it’s okay to change your mind. The fact that you believed something before doesn’t mean that, when presented with new information, or upon reconsideration, you’re still locked into that prior view. It’s okay, in other words, to never close the inquiry.

For more content and to subscribe to the Never Close the Inquiry newsletter, please visit neverclosetheinquiry.substack.com and follow on instagram @neverclosetheinquiry 

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Episode 12 - Rick Robison: From CIA Agent to Conservative Education Activist

Rick Robison has lived an interesting life. Initially recruited by the Central Intelligence Agency in the 1980s while on a semester abroad at the American University in Cairo, he spent years in the Middle East and surrounding areas as a CIA field operative, and later worked as a military contractor during the Afghanistan and Iraq Wars.

Today, Rick is a conservative educator and education activist. A man of deep Christian faith, he is CEO of The Legacy Generation and author of the Heroes for Freedom manuals, a set of resources on 100 men and women, some of them virtually unknown, who made particularly important contributions to the effort to create a free America.

Rick has known me virtually my entire life, and he was kind enough to come over and talk to me at some length both about how he ended up in the CIA and the work he’s doing now. As could be said with every interview I do, even if you disagree with him—and some listeners will—I think it’s important to try to understand where people are coming from and to consider whether they’re seeing something you’re not.

Please listen and feel free to make your thoughts known in the comments!

For more content and to subscribe to the Never Close the Inquiry newsletter, please visit neverclosetheinquiry.substack.com and follow on instagram @neverclosetheinquiry 

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Episode 11 - A Pharmacist's Take on the American Pharmaceutical Industry

Benjamin Jolley is an independent pharmacist from a family of independent pharmacists—the first Jolley’s Compounding Pharmacy in Salt Lake City was founded by his grandfather, Joel, in 1954.  Benjamin is a Senior Fellow for Healthcare at the American Economic Liberties Project and writes a newsletter about the pharmaceutical industry, Ramblings of a pharmacist, which is read by a number of influential people in the government and private sector.

Conveniently, Benjamin and I have known each other since kindergarten.  I had him over two weeks ago to get a pharmacist’s view on the Byzantine bizarro world of the American pharmaceutical system.  And believe me: it’s complicated.  Despite years as outside counsel for a pharmaceutical manufacturer, I didn’t know the half of it, and maybe not the third.

Stay tuned for more episodes coming soon with commentary on current events and interviews with people from across the political spectrum. 

For more content and to subscribe to the Never Close the Inquiry newsletter, please visit neverclosetheinquiry.substack.com and follow on instagram @neverclosetheinquiry

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Episode 10 - Professor Paul Mahoney - Why Securities Regulation Fails

Professor Paul Mahoney has taught at the University of Virginia School of Law since 1990; he served as the school's dean from 2008-2016.  Professor Mahoney's area of expertise is securities regulation, and in 2015, he published Wasting a Crisis: Why Securities Regulation Fails, which offers a compelling conservative critique of financial regulation from the Obama administration right back to the New Deal era.  I previously interviewed Professor Mehrsa Baradaran about her book, The Quiet Coup: Neoliberalism and the Looting of America, which offers a serious critique of the government's approach to securities regulation and response to the 2008 financial crisis, but from a progressive perspective; I view this interview with Professor Mahoney as the conservative companion to that prior conversation.

There are many issues on which conservatives and liberals can't agree on what's wrong with the current system.  This is one where at least some conservatives and liberals do agree on the problem, but propose very different solutions.  

Enjoy! 

Stay tuned for more episodes coming soon with commentary on current events and interviews with people from across the political spectrum. 

For more content and to subscribe to the Never Close the Inquiry newsletter, please visit neverclosetheinquiry.substack.com and follow on instagram @neverclosetheinquiry 

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Episode 9 - Moral Individualism with Professors K. Patterson and C. Karpowitz

Moral individualism—a measure of our autonomy from any external authority, be it the government, our family, a religion, science, friends, or something else—has been increasing over time.  We see manifestations of this everywhere across the political spectrum, from general exhortations to “live your truth” or “do your own research” to entire movements based on the idea that our institutions can no longer be trusted.  Moral individualism, as an index that can be measured, is the creation of Professors Kelly Patterson and Chris Karpowitz of Brigham Young University.  Their book on the subject doesn’t come out until this summer, but I was able to catch up with them to discuss the preview they included in an article published in 2023 in the Cambridge University Press’s Perspectives on Politics.  I had a heck of a time talking to them, and look forward to speaking with them again after the book comes out.  These ideas really, really matter: how do you hold a society together when core institutions lose their authority?  How do you restore that authority once it is lost, especially when it was lost for good reason?

Please listen and share your thoughts in the comments (and enjoy the occasional Paris sirens in the background—Professor Patterson has the good fortune to currently be teaching in France).

Stay tuned for more episodes coming soon with commentary on current events and interviews with people from across the political spectrum. 

For more content and to subscribe to the Never Close the Inquiry newsletter, please visit neverclosetheinquiry.substack.com and follow on instagram @neverclosetheinquiry 

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Episode 8 - Dr. Casey Burgat: We Hold These "Truths"

Dr. Casey Burgat is the director of the Legislative Affairs program at George Washington University’s Graduate School of Political Management, the host of its Mastering the Room podcast, and the mind behind Crash Course with Casey Burgat on Substack.  We spoke recently about his book, We Hold These "Truths": How to Spot the Myths That Are Holding America Back, a collection of essays from the professor and various politicians and political experts pushing back on certain widespread misconceptions people hold about how our government works.  The book is highly accessible, as is the energetic, backwards cap-wearing Professor Burgat.  We had a terrific time talking to each other (speaking for myself, at least), and I hope you come away from listening with some new information or a new way of looking at something old. 

Stay tuned for more episodes coming soon with commentary on current events and interviews with people from across the political spectrum. 

For more content and to subscribe to the Never Close the Inquiry newsletter, please visit neverclosetheinquiry.substack.com and follow on instagram @neverclosetheinquiry 

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Episode 7 - Two-Time House Candidate Adam Frisch on Democrats' Path Forward

Adam Frisch is a tough dude, a glutton for punishment, and a serious optimist.  Across two races to represent Colorado’s rural 3rd Congressional District, the self-described “pro-business, pro-energy, moderate, pragmatic Democrat” drove 77,000 miles—a third of the way to the Moon—to meet voters where they were.  He lost both races, the first to Lauren Boebert by just 546 votes in the closest House race of 2022, but each time, he dramatically outperformed expectations.

Not done with trying to make a difference, he then ran for vice-chair of the Democratic National Committee.  That race was a little bit less close—as it turns out, “moderate” and “pragmatic” are not words that play particularly well at conventions.

Now, Adam is on Substack as a “proud centrist working with The Welcome Party on building a winning coalition.”

Adam and I had a great time discussing, well, what Democrats love to discuss: how did we get here, and how do we get away from here?

Stay tuned for more episodes coming soon with commentary on current events and interviews with people from across the political spectrum.

For more content and to subscribe to the Never Close the Inquiry newsletter, please visit neverclosetheinquiry.substack.com and follow on instagram @neverclosetheinquiry

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Episode 6 - National Security Deep State - Prof. Michael J. Glennon

Professor Michael J. Glennon is a longtime professor of constitutional and international law at Tufts University's Fletcher School of Law and Diplomacy.  In 2016, he published National Security and Double Government (available here), in which he challenged the idea that U.S. security policy is still forged by the president and Congress, arguing instead that our policy comes—or came—from the several hundred unelected officials at the top of the various military, intelligence, diplomatic, and law enforcement agencies who are responsible for protecting the nation—in other words, from the national security Deep State.  The book was based on decades of scholarly inquiry, but also on personal experience—Professor Glennon began his career as counsel to the Senate Foreign Relations Committee in the 1970s; he was there when Idaho’s liberal firebrand, Senator Frank Church, led his investigation into the secret dealings of the CIA, NSA, and FBI.

The dynamic has changed since President Trump entered the political arena.  He has challenged the security directorate more and dramatically more openly than any of his predecessors, and there is no guarantee this ends well.  Professor Glennon and I spoke about that and much more: about the concept of "double government," drawbacks in the old way of doing things, risks in the new, and where we go from here.

Stay tuned for more episodes coming soon with commentary on current events and interviews with people from across the political spectrum. 

For more content and to subscribe to the Never Close the Inquiry newsletter, please visit neverclosetheinquiry.substack.com and follow on instagram @neverclosetheinquiry 

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Episode 5 - Michael Baharaeen of The Liberal Patriot On Democrats' Path Forward

This is my conversation with Michael Baharaeen, Chief Political Analyst at The Liberal Patriot here on Substack.  The writers for The Liberal Patriot, co-founded in 2021 by Ruy Teixeira and John Halpin, believe in and advocate for Franklin Delano Roosevelt’s Four Freedoms: the freedom of speech and expression, the freedom of worship, the freedom from want, and the freedom from fear.  Though they primarily write to Democrats—why did they lose? What should they do now? How can they win again?—their work is insightful and worth reading even if you'd rather like Democrats to keep losing.

Michael and I spoke about all that and more: what brought Democrats to this point, where they're at now, and where they should go from here. 

Subscribe to The Liberal Patriot here: https://www.liberalpatriot.com/?utm_source=substack&utm_medium=web&utm_campaign=substack_profile 

Stay tuned for more episodes coming soon with commentary on current events and interviews with people from across the political spectrum. 

For more content and to subscribe to the Never Close the Inquiry newsletter, please visit neverclosetheinquiry.substack.com and follow on instagram @neverclosetheinquiry 

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Episode 4 - Gabe Fleisher of Wake Up to Politics on Trump 2.0 (So Far)

This is my conversation with Gabe Fleisher, who might be one of the best and most balanced political journalists working today.  It would be a lot to say about anybody, but it's really a lot to say about Gabe--after all, he's only 23 years old.  The Georgetown graduate and writer behind Wake Up to Politics, as good a subscription as there is on Substack, has been writing about politics since he was nine.  All these years later, he's a seasoned pro finally doing what he loves full time, and my gosh is he good at it.  Gabe and I spoke about his background, including how he got started and how he broke the news that New York City mayor Bill de Blasio was running for president, and then discussed our views on the first month of Trump Administration 2.0.

Subscribe to Wake Up to Politics here: https://www.wakeuptopolitics.com/?utm_source=global-search 

Stay tuned for more episodes coming soon with commentary on current events and interviews with people from across the political spectrum. 

For more content and to subscribe to the Never Close the Inquiry newsletter, please visit neverclosetheinquiry.substack.com and follow on instagram @neverclosetheinquiry 

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