In this episode, I talk about how embarking on the process of making a change in the world requires a shift in thinking.

​The first shift is to begin to engage in systems thinking, to see the interlocking pieces of the whole puzzle. The second shift is to inquire into the accuracy and reliability of information that we take in. This leads to a shift in reassessing our own beliefs and assumptions and shedding those that no longer serve. Each of these leads to a person becoming a more effective change-maker. 

Show notes

[1:07] I talk about my recent podcast interview with Patrick Andrews where Patrick explains how he began to look at the bigger complex picture in his journey to devise innovative corporate structures. This is systems thinking.

[2:31] Systems thinking is necessary for effective change-making because working in only one part of the whole without appreciating the problems and necessary solutions in the rest, will render the effort nugatory.

[4:51] I provide as an example of this the broader education I embarked on, including the books I read, in an effort to understand the systems impacted by and impacting upon my work in profit-with-purpose enterprises .

[7:22] Linking up and collaborating with people who are working on solutions in other parts and other systems that complement your work is one of the benefits of systems thinking,

[8:51] Another shift occurs once systems thinking is engaged, which is an appreciation that a lot of information we absorb is focussed on only one piece of the puzzle - thus causing us to begin to healthily question the accuracy and completeness of the information we access.

[10:38] Critically examining every piece of information we come across can at first lead to a sense of disorientation but eventually leads us to strengthen our own inner guidance system.

[11:44] Another interesting phenomenon is that past information we have accepted also comes under scrutiny, which can cause a questioning of assumptions and belief structures.

[13:55] As we do this work, we become aware of and can see more clearly the programming that other people are carrying around with them.

[14:41]  All of this is part of the journey of accumulating experience while becoming a more effective changemaker.

For more, please visit the episode page on the New Earth lawyer website.

Patrick Andrews is a lawyer and facilitator with over 30 years’ experience in corporate structures and governance. He goes by the description Barefoot Lawyer. A barefoot lawyer he says is someone who makes law accessible, who meets people where they are and who is connected to the earth.

An intensely curious soul and a deep thinker, he has garnered a reputation for designing innovative, human-centred and earth-friendly corporate structures.  In this episode, we talk about his journey to the outer reaches of corporate law and governance and the treasures he brings back on his intellectual travels.

Show notes:
​
 [1:39] Patrick shares his story of his first trip to China, where he realised his job as a corporate lawyer had wider repercussions on society and the planet, that weren't necessarily for the better.

[8:49] Patrick discusses his years of 'wandering', looking for root causes of why so many good people in the capitalist, corporate world make decisions that perpetuate harm and inequity.

[9:18] Patrick says he began to see  it was  a systemic issue and sought to apply his innate curiosity to solving it.

[11:50] Patrick forayed into the not-for-profit world and found an equally toxic environment there.

[12:51] Patrick explained that he finally determined that our existing corporate legal structures are not equipped to underpin the type of corporation the world needs and he set about building it.

[17:43] Patrick began to see his role as a bridge-builder, working with entrepreneurs who were visionary and brave enough to work with him to create new structures.

[19:47] We talk about the B Corporation model, which Patrick sees as a positive but still interim model to more radical change.

[22:16] Patrick explains his ideas of moving beyond the concept of ownership of a company and ownership of employees, which harks back to serfdom and slavery.

[25:07] I ask Patrick his views on The British Academy's Future of the Corporation and Principles of Purposeful Business, which is brilliant in its conceptualisation of the different parts that need to be innovated.

[26:27] Moving away from a top-down, growth-oriented model to something more fluid and accepting of human complexity aligns with quantum theory and nature. In this vein, Patrick is exploring multiple-board models.

[31:33] Patrick shares the four elements of change he is working on, starting with embedding purpose in by-laws, in common with B Corporations.  The second element is implementing a mission lock to protect the purpose through a golden-share mechanism.

[33:36] In discussing the third element of removing a rigid, controlling, hierarchical management structure, Patrick brings up the seminal book Reinventing Organisations by Frederic Laloux,

[36:30] Patrick's fourth element is the decentralisation of power towards polycentric governance, reminiscent of Indigenous ways of organising their tribal structures including Aboriginal Australian and Native American.   

For more, visit the episode page on the New Earth lawyer website.

In this episode, I talk about how lawyers are not trained to promote trust, whether it's developing the trust of our clients, gaining the trust of communities or guiding clients to building more trustful relationships with their stakeholders. In understanding trust, lawyers would also benefit from looking at the bigger picture, which means stepping back and appreciating the true nature of risk and the client's appetite for different types of risk

Show notes:

• [0:39] I talk about my favourite book on how lawyers can gain trust from clients, The Trusted Advisor, and the lessons I took away from it, mainly to diminish our focus on self when dealing with clients.
• [3:28] Lawyers aren't seen as an ethical profession, and we suffer from a lack of the community's trust. I mention my view, which I discussed in a Lawyers Weekly podcast late last year, that lawyers need to reduce self-interest.
• [6:48] When it comes to engendering more trust between our clients and their stakeholders, our training fails us, We are trained to warn clients not to trust, to be wary of risk.
• [8:59] Risk, however, is a part of life. Lawyers need to know where our expertise on risk sits within the bigger picture.
• [11:16] Lawyers should understand the area of risk and speak to clients about their specific risk management frameworks.
• [13:00] A more holistic understanding of risk connects back to trust-building skills, 
• [13:45] I give two examples of where clients might trade off taking a higher risk for building more trust - one of eliminating non-competition clauses in employment contracts and another of Atlassian's simplified mergers & acquisitions term sheet.
• [17:08] Lawyers who want to guide clients toward more trustful relationships would gain from learning where clients are prepared to trade risk for trust, what the legal risks are as well as the real-life risks and gains.

To learn more, visit the episode page on the New Earth lawyer website.

Camilla Andersen is an experienced law professor with successes in teaching, research and funded industry engagement. Her innovation and contribution to the law comes in the field of visual law, specifically the unique area of comic contracts. She has pioneered this work over the last 5 years. 

For lawyers, her work is a revelation.  

Join me as we delve into the fascinating story of how comic contracts came to be, and how they are revolutionising the world of legal contracting.

Show notes:

​[4:01]: Camilla discusses the factors that led her to the world of comic contracts, from her work with the pro-active law movement, to being a mother to two highly-intelligent savant children with ASD thus learning different ways of communicating, 

[6:38] Camilla reveals the amazing true story of how comic contracts came to be!​

[10:14] Camilla harks back to the early days of comic contracts, beginning with non-disclosure agreements signed by university students.

[12:22] A slot on ABC Radio's Law Report turned into a sponsorship opportunity of a lifetime via great innovative thinking at Aurecon led by their then Chief Innovation Officer John McGuire.

[13:41] We discuss the Aurecon employment contracts in depth, selecting some of the most multitextured parts of the contracts and how they enriched the employer-employee relationship. 

[19:05] Camilla relates how images can also end up getting lost in translation when they symbolise different things to different cultures!

[21:03] From Aurecon, Camilla moves on to her biggest project so far - Bankwest's customer terms and conditions in comic form, approved by Australia's securities regulator, the Australian Securities & Investments Commission (ASIC).

[24:02] Camilla tells us how endorsement for the enforceability of comic contracts came from one of the highest judicial authorities in Australia, a former Chief Justice of the High Court. 

[26:44] Camilla shows us an example contract from her husband's Alternative Consulting business, a one-page handyman services contract.

[30:49] Customers universally love the comic contracts, it seems. There is also an alternative for the visual impaired that stays true to the comic contract form.   

[32:42} We talk about how to negotiate comic contracts - lawyers should sharpen their pencils! 

[37:08] Camilla explains how to approach her or her husband's business to develop a comic contract, whether for large sponsors or smaller organisations, and tells us a little of what goes into the whole process. 

For more, visit the episode page at the New Earth lawyer website. 

In this episode, I expand on my views on the 'bamboo ceiling' - the barrier to advancement of people from different cultural backgrounds, usually referring to Asians, but really applicable to all cultural diversity.  

As a Malaysian by birth and a migrant to Australia, I bring my personal lens to the topic, with observations for  culturally diverse individuals who are looking to advance,  colleagues who want to be good allies to them, and organisations aspiring to be champions of a culturally diverse workforce and leadership.

Show notes:

• [2:07] I talk about why cultural diversity is important - it's really about promoting diversity of thought.​
• [4:31] Since the expression 'bamboo ceiling' was coined in 2005. we have moved away from promoting a singular ideal of leadership to recognising different styles, which helps people from different backgrounds.
• [6:37] Introverts, for example, are now able to be themselves more. 
• [8:06] Growing up in one culture and adapting to another can mean becoming conditioned to rely on external cues and validation. It can nurture early success, but we will eventually top out.
• [12:04] In the workplace, the very definition of leadership means expressing your authentic self - the sooner we discover who we truly are and learn to do that, the better.
• [13:15] Colleagues seeking to be allies can celebrate uniqueness and show good old-fashioned respect and civility. Tolerance goes both ways.
• [15:04] An organisation that invests in individual one-on-one purpose-work for next-generation leaders will reap rewards from diversity. Organisational purpose aligned with - not imposed upon - individual purpose will unleash potential.  

For more on this episode, visit the episode page on the New Earth lawyer website.

Virginia Warren is a lawyer on a mission.

She is not only a lawyer, she is a qualified yoga instructor, author of a book on how to resolve dissatisfaction in the legal profession, and a TedX Speaker. Until 2021, she was a partner in a legal practice in Mornington, Victoria, Australia. Today she runs a practice training lawyers and clients in love-based wisdom, called Lawyers for Love.

Lawyers for Love is currently exploring an alternate platform for individuals that supports the discovery of authentic selves, by using conflict as a catalyst.

It’s fair to say that Virginia is on a mission to bring the wisdom of love to our profession.

Show notes:
[01:52] Virginia recounts her journey into law, from a legal receptionist to law school to becoming a partner at the very same firm.

[04:16] Destiny had more in store for Virginia, in the form of a pair of high heels that led to her downfall, literally, and discovery of yoga to fix her bruised knees and ego.

[5:45] Her passion for yoga evolved into a yoga training diploma and her entrée into the world of ancient philosophy and principles, which she sought to apply to the law.

[9:40] Her next step was to write a book to introduce lawyers to another way of thinking about the mental health problems afflicting the profession. 

[13:22] Virginia has not looked back since transferring out of her legal practice to building her new project, Lawyers for Love.

[14:44] Virginia talks about how we all have unconscious 'rules' we have developed from childhood, often imposed by our family or 'tribe'.  Adopting these rules often leads to confusion and inauthenticity. We can free ourselves by consciously recognising the unconscious rules we carry around with us.

[20:16] Virginia talks about her conflict alchemy philosophy - how as lawyers, we can use the conflicts our clients come to us for as catalysts for recognising and addressing their unconscious rules.

[22:30] Virginia discusses the 'shadow' work she does, which applies to individuals as well as society when we ignore or cast blame on things that actually reflect the parts of ourselves or society that trouble us most but we don't want to accept. Integrating the shadow parts of ourselves validates the self and promotes healing.

[27:32] Conflict and war arise from an inability to accept another perspective. Our current legal system punishes perspectives whereas a loving system honours different perspectives and seeks to teach. 

[30:21] We talk about the modern type of shamanism that Virginia practises in helping lawyers identify their unconscious rules.

[34:55] Lawyers for Love is beta-testing a new platform for lawyers that will allow them to take the ideas and practices into their own legal practice.

[36:12] Virginia tells me that the highest court in Australia has discussed the organic connection Indigenous people have to the land, which is a promises first step to recognising the inter-connectedness of all things. 

For more, visit the episode page on the New Earth lawyer website. 

In this episode, I talk about how to stay physically and psychologically healthy when you're working incredibly demanding hours.  Working this way often occurs for lawyers in private practice.

I'm not a health professional - instead this comes from practical experience as a mergers and acquisitions lawyer for many years in law firms. Although it would be preferable that people don't work this way at all or don't do it for long, realistically speaking it happens.  When it does, taking a few simple measures will pay off for your physical and mental health, and sustainability in the long-run.

Show notes:

[1:05] Sometimes, lawyers work extremely  long hours because of urgent matters - whether a transaction, trial or a critical government inquiry.
[2:11] Working around the clock is not sustainable beyond a few weeks.
[3:34] I talk about how important it is to speak up if your team is under-resourced and there is a risk of unsafe work practices.
[5:30] Physically speaking, I recommend to keep exercising, to eat well, not to self-medicate and to keep up a daily meditation practice, even if just for a few minutes a day.
[8:24] Psychologically speaking. I emphasise that the crucial thing is resilience.
[10:23] Keep things in perspective even under stress. This will help you maintain your sense of humour, hold your temper and take it day by day. Stay grateful.
[15:33] Remember, that it always come down to people and appreciating those around you.

I am an experienced corporate lawyer, using the law to build purposeful, human-centred, Earth-friendly legal enterprises & ecosystems, for happier humans and a better planet.  I am also the founder and host of the New Earth lawyer podcast.

I am based in Melbourne, Australia. I established my own law practice Geraldine Grace in 2020, focussing on enterprises seeking purpose, and actors in the impact economy.

For more, check out the episode page on the New Earth lawyer website. 

John Chisholm is a lawyer and value pricing expert and an advocate for professional firms to depart from the traditional firm model which prices solely on time.  A former Managing Partner and Chief Executive of two leading Australian law firms, he compellingly runs through the many arguments for a move away from the billable-hour model - satisfied clients, more enduring client relationships, a collaborative culture, a more sustainable model, healthier lawyers, greater retention of talent, more robust financial position, increased trust and relevance in the business and wider community, and the list goes on.   

Show notes:

[02:14] John describes his journey from law firm Managing Partner to consultant, which he 'fell into' at first. We talk about the challenges of being an outsider advising law firm Partners.
[08:04] John remembers his 'a-ha' moment when he encountered value-based pricing, after hearing the late Paul O'Byrne talk about it.
[12:04] The legal profession is stagnant on client-friendly pricing models, while the rest of the world innovates.
[15:19] Billable-hour pricing leads to a production mentality, which demeans lawyers. 
[17:39] The private profession is losing good people, especially women, who will vote with their feet away from an outdated model that damages wellbeing.
[20:32] As John says, clients don't even buy lawyers' time, which is an input. They buy outputs, outcomes and value. And they want certainty. 
[21:55] John answers my question on how law firms can move to a new model, away from the billable hour.
[26:56] Removing the billable-hour as a basis for charging clients can also mean a different way of measuring and rewarding lawyers' performance, from individual- to team-based metrics.
[28:20] More advantages of value-pricing include how it increases cash-flow and releases management and Partner time previously spent on billing disputes. 
[30:50] John challenges in-house counsel to participate in the push for law firms to innovate in pricing. Law firms also need more courage to lead.
[34:48] John touches on the loss of trust the profession is facing due to our inability to adapt.
[35:01] John predicts that global law firms will develop or merge into consulting firms which will see a business model shift.
[36:22] John is moving his expertise into the subscription-model of pricing, an exciting new idea that already exists in many items we consume, and helps deliver more options and build stronger client communities for lawyers.

For more on this episode, visit: www.newearthlawyer.com/john-chisholm

In this mini-episode, I talk about 5 ways a lawyer can be of service, available to every practising lawyer, wherever and however and for whomever you work.

Being of service makes us more than good lawyers, it makes us great lawyers.

Martin Luther King, Jr said, ‘Everyone has the power for greatness – not for fame but greatness – because greatness is determined by service.’   All you need to serve, he said, is a heart full of grace, and a soul generated by love.

Being of service is the way toward deep personal fulfilment which will lead to better wellbeing, better mental health and better relationships with yourself and everyone in your life.

Show notes:

[1:14] According to Martin Luther King, Jr.,  service is what makes us great.
[2:49] Every lawyer can be of service, not just those working in specific areas.
[3:15] Service is not the same as sacrifice.
[4:37] First, honour the law.
[6:46] Secondly, appreciate your client.
[9:04] Thirdly, respect your fellow lawyers.
[10:24] Fourthly, value the opportunity to learn.
[11:23] Finally, cherish the opportunity to teach.

I am an experienced corporate lawyer, using the law to build purposeful, human-centred, Earth-friendly legal enterprises & ecosystems, for happier humans and a better planet.  I am also the founder and host of the New Earth lawyer podcast.

I am based in Melbourne, Australia. I established my own law practice Geraldine Grace in 2020, focussing on enterprises seeking purpose, and actors in the impact economy.

For more on this episode, please go to the episode page on the New Earth lawyer website: 

Marguerite Picard is a collaborative family lawyer who thinks about divorce and all kinds of interpersonal disputes as problems best resolved by building common ground, rather than letting ‘law’ drive people further apart. She talks about her human-centred approach, how she looks for answers beyond the law and works with a team of psychologists, financial planners and other non-lawyers to bring a human touch to divorce and family disputes.

Marguerite is a director of MELCA, which is a one-stop-collaborative-divorce-shop. MELCA is a thought leader in all things divorce and interdisciplinary practice. MELCA's documentary ‘Family is Family’ in which a number of wise souls speak about the many benefits of an interdisciplinary approach to divorce, sums up her approach. MELCA has won many awards and accolades and as of 2021 has offices in Brisbane and Sydney in addition to its Melbourne office.

Marguerite co-wrote, "Breaking Up Without Breaking Down", which talks about how a constructive approach to divorce pays dividends for everyone in a family. 

Marguerite's second business is Smart Separation. It was set up to give people a ‘diagnosis’, an action plan, referrals and some of the wisdom of her long years in practice. 

Show notes:

[02:17] Marguerite talks about discovering collaborative practice and realising she could work with non-legal experts to deliver a better result for clients from traditional litigation.

[05:09] We talk about law and relationships. Law touches everything including relationships but lawyers claim territory in the realm of interpersonal relationships which we aren't trained for.

[07:54] Collaborative law promotes deep, actual resolution.

[10:25] We discuss MELCA's excellent documentary 'Family is Family' and how collaborative divorce law dramatically improves outcomes for children. 

[16:35] Lawyers can lead in the kind of innovation which improves things like access to justice, using our experience as a guide to what serves clients better.

[19:11] Marguerite explains how mediation as it is currently practised often does not offer clients solutions that allow them to express their views, as it is often driven by trying to meet two positions in the centre. 

[24:56] Marguerite gives us insight into how coming from a large family gave her an appreciation for resolving conflict in a way that serves justice.

[30:50] Marguerite talks about how important it is to believe in your instincts and make bold change.

[35:27] The pandemic has given us the opportunity to see that change is possible. 

[36:48] Marguerite's exciting new project is a 4-part documentary series that will reinvent the whole idea of separation from a human-centred design perspective.

For more on this episode, please visit the episode page on the New Earth lawyer website.