In this episode of the No Trust podcast, Chase Cunningham discusses the evolution of Zero Trust, reflecting on the growth and challenges faced in 2025 and looking ahead to 2026.

The conversation covers the hype cycle of Zero Trust, the importance of leadership in strategy implementation, the need for cultural shifts, and the metrics that matter in measuring success.

The discussion also touches on the role of AI in cybersecurity and the future of Zero Trust as a standard practice in organizations.

Key Takeaways:

• 2025 was a year of significant international growth for Zero Trust.

• The Zero Trust hype cycle has transitioned to a phase of practicality.

• Leadership is crucial for the continuous execution of Zero Trust strategies.

• Organizations often misinterpret Zero Trust as a completed project rather than an ongoing strategy.

• Incentives in cybersecurity need to shift from punitive measures to positive reinforcement.

• Cultural challenges in adopting Zero Trust can hinder its effectiveness.

• Metrics should focus on real-world outcomes rather than superficial statistics.

• Zero Trust is becoming a necessary standard for modern businesses.

• Technical debt poses a significant challenge for legacy organizations in adopting Zero Trust.

• The future of Zero Trust will likely see it integrated as a default practice in new organizations.

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What is the Zero Trust Forum about?  It’s about empowering zero trust security professionals with strategies, architecture, and real world journeys to secure the digital future, the right way!

Follow the Zero Trust Forum on LinkedIn www.linkedin.com/company/zero-trust-forum/.

Follow Jaye Tillson on LinkedIn - www.linkedin.com/in/jaye-tillson/

Follow John Spiegel on LinkedIn - www.linkedin.com/in/john-spiegel-2011543/

In this episode of the No Trust podcast, John Spiegel engages with cybersecurity expert Joshua Copeland, who shares his insights on the fundamental flaws in the cybersecurity landscape.

They discuss the leadership vacuum in the industry, the pitfalls of compliance theater, and the overwhelming vendor hype that complicates tool selection.

Joshua emphasizes the need for a proactive approach to security, aligning cybersecurity with business objectives, and the importance of effective communication with leadership.

The conversation culminates in actionable takeaways for cybersecurity leaders looking to improve their strategies and outcomes.

Key Takeaways:

• Cybersecurity has a leadership vacuum that needs addressing.

• Compliance does not equate to security; it's often just theater.

• Organizations suffer from tool sprawl and lack of strategy.

• Vendor hype can distort risk perception and lead to poor decisions.

• Security leaders must communicate in business terms to gain support.

• Proactive security measures can prevent costly breaches.

• Understanding the business is crucial for effective cybersecurity leadership.

• Cybersecurity can be a revenue-generating function if aligned with business goals.

• Leverage existing tools before chasing new ones.

• Focus on redesigning critical processes for better security outcomes.

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What is the Zero Trust Forum about?  It’s about empowering zero trust security professionals with strategies, architecture, and real world journeys to secure the digital future, the right way!

Follow the Zero Trust Forum on LinkedIn www.linkedin.com/company/zero-trust-forum/.

Follow Jaye Tillson on LinkedIn - www.linkedin.com/in/jaye-tillson/

Follow John Spiegel on LinkedIn - www.linkedin.com/in/john-spiegel-2011543/

In this episode, Den Jones shares his journey from Scotland to becoming a prominent figure in cybersecurity, discussing the evolving role of the CISO, the skills gap, and the importance of accountability.

He emphasizes the need for effective communication with executives and the challenges posed by legacy systems.

Den also reflects on leadership lessons learned from past mistakes and provides insights into implementing Zero Trust strategies.

The conversation concludes with advice for aspiring leaders and a light-hearted discussion about food.

Key Takeaways:

• Den Jones shares his journey from Scotland to the US.

• The role of the CISO has evolved significantly in recent years.

• CISOs face increasing accountability and regulatory pressures.

• There is a skills gap in cybersecurity, often due to employer expectations.

• Legacy systems pose significant challenges for security teams.

• Effective communication with executives is crucial for success.

• Celebrating small wins can motivate teams and improve morale.

• Zero Trust implementation requires understanding the audience's needs.

• Leadership involves learning from mistakes and seeking mentorship.

• The future of the CISO role may involve blending with CIO responsibilities.

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What is the Zero Trust Forum about?  It’s about empowering zero trust security professionals with strategies, architecture, and real world journeys to secure the digital future, the right way!

Follow the Zero Trust Forum on LinkedIn www.linkedin.com/company/zero-trust-forum/.

Follow Jaye Tillson on LinkedIn - www.linkedin.com/in/jaye-tillson/

Follow John Spiegel on LinkedIn - www.linkedin.com/in/john-spiegel-2011543/

In this episode, Jaye and John welcome Jerry Chapman, a leading expert in Zero Trust security.

They discuss Jerry's journey into cybersecurity, the misconceptions surrounding Zero Trust, and the importance of understanding it as a journey rather than a one-time project.

Jerry shares insights on the Zero Trust blueprint, which consists of four phases: readiness, assessment, strategy, and metrics.

The conversation also delves into the challenges organizations face in implementing Zero Trust, the significance of user experience, and the need for continuous iteration and learning.

Jerry emphasizes that data and application security are often the weakest areas in organizations and highlights the importance of evaluating current capabilities to start the Zero Trust journey effectively.

Key Takeaways:

• Zero Trust is a journey, not a one-time project.

• Misconceptions about Zero Trust often focus on technology rather than process.

• Organizations need to assess their readiness for Zero Trust implementation.

• The Zero Trust blueprint consists of four phases: readiness, assessment, strategy, and metrics.

• Understanding business assets and protect surfaces is crucial for Zero Trust.

• Data and application security are often the weakest areas in organizations.

• Organizations can start their Zero Trust journey without having everything in place.

• User experience is critical in the adoption of Zero Trust principles.

• Metrics for success in Zero Trust implementation can be challenging to define.

• Continuous iteration and learning from customer interactions are essential for improving the Zero Trust framework.

Follow & Subscribe on all Podcast platforms.

What is the Zero Trust Forum about?  It’s about empowering zero trust security professionals with strategies, architecture, and real world journeys to secure the digital future, the right way!

Follow the Zero Trust Forum on LinkedIn www.linkedin.com/company/zero-trust-forum/.

Follow Jaye Tillson on LinkedIn - www.linkedin.com/in/jaye-tillson/

Follow John Spiegel on LinkedIn - www.linkedin.com/in/john-spiegel-2011543/

In this episode, Jaye Tillson and John Spiegel engage with Jason Garbis of Numberline Security to explore the often misunderstood concept of Zero Trust and its associated maturity models.

They discuss the importance of viewing Zero Trust as a strategy rather than a mere technology, emphasizing the need for cultural change within organizations.

The conversation delves into common misconceptions, the role of maturity models in assessing security posture, and the necessity of engaging stakeholders beyond IT and security teams.

Jason shares insights on how to effectively communicate Zero Trust initiatives to procurement teams and the complexities of measuring success in these initiatives.

The episode concludes with a discussion on the continuous journey of Zero Trust adoption and the importance of embedding security by design in organizational processes.

Key Takeaways:

• Zero Trust is a strategy, not just a technology.

• Maturity models help organizations assess their security posture.

• Common misconceptions include viewing Zero Trust as a product to buy.

• Successful Zero Trust implementation requires cultural change.

• Engaging stakeholders outside of IT is crucial for success.

• Zero Trust should be embedded in organizational processes.

• Communication with procurement teams is essential for effective vendor evaluation.

• Measuring success in Zero Trust initiatives is complex but necessary.

• Continuous improvement is key in Zero Trust adoption.

• Zero Trust is a journey, not a destination.

Follow & Subscribe on all Podcast platforms.

What is the Zero Trust Forum about?  It’s about empowering zero trust security professionals with strategies, architecture, and real world journeys to secure the digital future, the right way!

Follow the Zero Trust Forum on LinkedIn www.linkedin.com/company/zero-trust-forum/.

Follow Jaye Tillson on LinkedIn - www.linkedin.com/in/jaye-tillson/

Follow John Spiegel on LinkedIn - www.linkedin.com/in/john-spiegel-2011543/

In this episode Jaye Tillson and John Spiegel engage with Richard Bird, a seasoned cybersecurity expert, to discuss the evolving landscape of Zero Trust and identity management.

Richard shares his unique journey from a small-town upbringing to becoming a chief security officer, emphasizing the importance of mentorship and the need for a paradigm shift in security architecture.

The conversation delves into the critical role of identity in cybersecurity, the challenges organizations face in managing identities, and the implications of AI on security practices.

Richard offers valuable insights for CISOs and CIOs, urging them to address persistent unearned trust within their systems.

The episode concludes with light-hearted discussions about personal experiences and the significance of travel in broadening perspectives.

Key Takeaways:

• Richard Bird emphasizes the importance of mentorship in career development.

• Zero Trust requires a fundamental rethink of security architecture.

• Identity management is a critical component of cybersecurity.

• Persistent unearned trust poses significant risks to organizations.

• Contextual data is essential for effective identity management.

• AI is reshaping the landscape of cybersecurity and identity management.

• Organizations must recognize the importance of non-human identities.

• Traveling can broaden one's perspective and enhance understanding.

• Effective identity management requires understanding context and classification.

• Cybersecurity solutions must evolve to address the complexities of AI.

• Zero Trust principles are essential for managing AI agents.

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link.chtbl.com/XIW5zsAn

What is the Zero Trust Forum about?  It’s about empowering zero trust security professionals with strategies, architecture, and real world journeys to secure the digital future, the right way!

Follow the Zero Trust Forum on LinkedIn www.linkedin.com/company/zero-trust-forum/.

Follow Jaye Tillson on LinkedIn - www.linkedin.com/in/jaye-tillson/

Follow John Spiegel on LinkedIn - www.linkedin.com/in/john-spiegel-2011543/

In this episode, Jaye and John discuss the implications of AI agents and the importance of integrating Zero Trust principles into their deployment.

Special guest Josh Woodruff shares insights from his upcoming book, emphasizing the need for a security-first approach to AI.

The conversation covers the risks associated with autonomous AI, the development of the Agentic Trust Framework, and the cultural shifts necessary for successful AI adoption.

Josh also explores the future of AI, including the role of government regulations, quantum computing, and the emergence of new job roles in the AI landscape.

Key Takeaways:

• AI agents are powerful and autonomous, posing new risks.

• Zero Trust principles are essential for managing AI agents.

• The Agentic Trust Framework helps govern AI behavior.

• Cultural shifts are necessary for successful AI adoption.

• AI can elevate human work rather than replace it.

• Clear guidelines improve AI agent performance.

• Security must evolve alongside technological innovation.

• Emerging roles like AI ethicists will become important.

• Causal AI will enhance decision-making capabilities.

• Embracing AI technology is crucial for future competitiveness.

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link.chtbl.com/XIW5zsAn

What is the Zero Trust Forum about?  It’s about empowering zero trust security professionals with strategies, architecture, and real world journeys to secure the digital future, the right way!

Follow the Zero Trust Forum on LinkedIn www.linkedin.com/company/zero-trust-forum/.

Follow Jaye Tillson on LinkedIn - www.linkedin.com/in/jaye-tillson/

Follow John Spiegel on LinkedIn - www.linkedin.com/in/john-spiegel-2011543/

In this episode, Jaye and John engage with George Finney to explore the intersection of Zero Trust principles and AI agents.

They discuss the challenges and opportunities presented by AI in cybersecurity, emphasizing the importance of identity management, governance, and the role of humans in overseeing AI systems.

The conversation also touches on the future of AI, the necessity of pre-mortems in project planning, and the need for continuous education in cybersecurity.

George shares insights from his experience as a CISO and offers advice for leaders navigating the evolving landscape of digital security.

Key Takeaways:

• AI agents pose significant security challenges.

• Zero Trust principles must adapt to include AI.

• Identity management is crucial for both humans and AI.

• Governance structures are needed for AI oversight.

• Investing in people is key to a secure future.

• Pre-mortems can help identify potential AI risks.

• Human involvement is essential in critical AI decisions.

• AI's blending of control and data planes raises security concerns.

• Continuous education in cybersecurity is vital for all staff.

• The future of AI in cybersecurity is uncertain but requires critical thinking.

Follow & Subscribe on all Podcast platforms.

link.chtbl.com/XIW5zsAn

What is the Zero Trust Forum about?  It’s about empowering zero trust security professionals with strategies, architecture, and real world journeys to secure the digital future, the right way!

Follow the Zero Trust Forum on LinkedIn www.linkedin.com/company/zero-trust-forum/.

Follow Jaye Tillson on LinkedIn - www.linkedin.com/in/jaye-tillson/

Follow John Spiegel on LinkedIn - www.linkedin.com/in/john-spiegel-2011543/

In this episode, Jaye and John engage with Chase Cunningham, a retired Navy cryptologic chief, to explore the concept of Zero Trust through the lens of military experience.

They discuss the importance of situational awareness, effective leadership, and the necessity of building trust within teams.

The conversation delves into crisis management, emphasizing the need for flexibility and adaptability in high-pressure situations.

They also highlight the significance of after action reviews in learning from both successes and failures, and the critical role of empowered leadership in navigating cybersecurity challenges.

Key Takeaways:

• The mindset from special ops can enhance cybersecurity strategies.

• Situational awareness is crucial in both military and civilian life.

• Crisis management requires flexibility and the ability to adapt.

• Effective leadership is essential during high-pressure situations.

• Building trust within teams is vital for successful operations.

• Organizations must have a clear mission to align efforts.

• Regular after action reviews can improve response strategies.

• Learning from past mistakes is critical to avoid future breaches.

• Crisis response should prioritize isolation of threats.

• Empowered leadership can facilitate better decision-making during crises.

Follow & Subscribe on all Podcast platforms.

link.chtbl.com/XIW5zsAn

What is the Zero Trust Forum about?  It’s about empowering zero trust security professionals with strategies, architecture, and real world journeys to secure the digital future, the right way!

Follow the Zero Trust Forum on LinkedIn www.linkedin.com/company/zero-trust-forum/.

Follow Jaye Tillson on LinkedIn - www.linkedin.com/in/jaye-tillson/

Follow John Spiegel on LinkedIn - www.linkedin.com/in/john-spiegel-2011543/

In this episode, the No Trust team speaks with Jennifer Minella about her extensive experience in technology, particularly in wireless security and networking.

They discuss the challenges of maintaining security in wireless networks, the evolution of networking technologies, and the complexities of implementing Network Access Control (NAC) in a hybrid work environment.

The conversation also touches on the future of Zero Trust architecture, the importance of unique device identity, and the challenges posed by IoT and OT devices.

The episode concludes with a light-hearted discussion about whiskey.

• Jennifer Minella has over 30 years of experience in technology, focusing on infrastructure and security.

• Wireless security protocols have not significantly changed in over 20 years, posing challenges for security professionals.

• The majority of Wi-Fi technology is consumer-based, complicating enterprise security efforts.

• Understanding the basics of networking is crucial for entering the cybersecurity field today.

• NAC implementations are often challenging and can lead to significant operational disruptions.

• Zero Trust architecture requires a shift in how organizations approach network security, especially with remote work.

• Unique device identity is essential for effective security in IoT and OT environments.

• The complexity of modern networks makes it difficult to manage security policies effectively.

• The rise of ransomware attacks on IoT devices highlights the need for better security measures.

• Whiskey culture provides a fun and engaging way to connect with others in the tech industry.

Follow & Subscribe on all Podcast platforms.

link.chtbl.com/XIW5zsAn

What is the Zero Trust Forum about?  It’s about empowering zero trust security professionals with strategies, architecture, and real world journeys to secure the digital future, the right way!

Follow the Zero Trust Forum on LinkedIn www.linkedin.com/company/zero-trust-forum/.

Follow Jaye Tillson on LinkedIn - www.linkedin.com/in/jaye-tillson/

Follow John Spiegel on LinkedIn - www.linkedin.com/in/john-spiegel-2011543/