Mattio Martinez returns to talk with Charles and Isaac about the "imperial phase:" the segment of certain artists's careers when they are at their critical, commercial, and cultural peak. More interestingly, the show focuses on the post-imperial phase, where the artist feels most free to create but almost always ends up making something weird.
Examples cited: Garth Brooks' alter ego Chris Gaines, the films of Steven Spielberg from AI onwards, and whether Kanye has exited his imperial phase.