Not Real Art

What role does public art play in our communities? And how has it changed across human history? From England’s prehistoric Stonehenge to Anish Kapoor’s Cloud Gate in Chicago, public art transforms landscapes, combats isolation, and reinvigorates cities and public spaces. Whether it provides space for sacred rituals or acts as a monument, public art has the power to spark conversations and deepen our sense of community.

Today, we’re honored to welcome public art enthusiast Badir McCleary back to the podcast. On a special bonus episode, NOT REAL ART founder and host Scott “Sourdough” Power sits down with Badir to discuss Remote, the filmmaker’s ongoing video series on the power of public art. “With public art, people feel like it's theirs, especially as a taxpayer in America,” says Badir, who treks to a different location—sometimes two or three—for each episode. “In a public space, you're like, ‘Yeah, I've put at least some money into this. I can get a little bit closer.’ And I think that's what's needed. People need to feel like they have agency in [public art] because then they'll protect it, they'll engage with it, they'll have something to say about it—they won't just ‘never mind’ it.”

Created in partnership with NOT REAL ART, Remote explores the evolving role of public art and its ability to transform communities, facilitate connection, and cultivate culture. Today, Badir gives us an overview of the project, from the first episode to the fifth and most current, where he visits the National Mall in Washington, D.C.  “What would America be if it didn't have all these colorful things like art?” he asks, reflecting on the capitol’s bulky concrete architecture. “What would [America] be if we just looked at all these brutalist buildings down in D.C. on Capitol Hill?”

Our conversation also unpacks key themes in public art, including the role of technology in contemporary pieces, why allocating resources to marketing and storytelling is essential, and how public art fosters community engagement. Join us for a fascinating discussion on the complexity of public art with the creator of Remote, Badir McCleary. 

Watch the series trailer below, then watch episode one: “Desert X”; watch episode two: “Aesthetic Information as Public Art”; watch episode three: “Perception of Public Art; watch episode four: “Becoming a Public Art City”; watch episode five: “We’re Going to the Mall!”

Key Points From This Episode:

• Catching up with Badir on the work he’s been doing for Remote, his series on public art.
• Public art in San Antonio and how it has grown and flourished over the last decade.
• Insights into his two-part series on Washington DC for Remote.
• Key differences in how people engage with public art versus art in a gallery or museum.
• Chicago’s thriving public art scene and why Badir would love to do a Remote episode on it.
• Unpacking the role of scale in public art, especially for contemporary pieces.
• How technology can be used to educate and provide information on public art pieces.
• The importance of allocating resources to marketing and storytelling for public artworks.
• Reflecting on Desert X, the first installation of his Remote series, and why it’s worth watching.
• How the function of public art has evolved over centuries.
• Why Badir’s Remote episode set in Philadelphia is so special to him.
• Philadelphia’s beautiful use of markers sharing the cultural history of public spaces.
• Inspirational lessons from Badir’s interview with Charles Dixon.
• Insight into Badir’s upcoming episode on Austin and other parts of Texas.
• Unpacking the significance of public art in our nation’s capital, Washington DC.

For more information, please visit http://notrealart.com/badir-mccleary-remote-series

Step aside, digital design, and make way for the magic of hand-crafted signage. 

On today’s podcast episode, host and NOT REAL ART founder Scott “Sourdough” Power sits down with Chicago-based sign painter Ches Perry to discuss the timeless allure of hand-made art. “Never dreamt I'd be painting signs for the rest of my life,” says Ches, who wanted to be a commercial artist growing up. “But I loved that. That was the weird thing. Right from the beginning, I just loved sitting there all day long and practicing my lettering.”

A true master of the craft, Ches trained at the Institute of Lettering and Design before opening Rightway Signs, a Chicago-based company that specializes in hand-painted designs. Ches and his team aren’t confined to hand-painted lettering, though; their expertise covers digital design, murals, neon, and eye-catching rooftop signage. “Whether you're on the side of a roof, or wherever, you're by yourself,” says Ches, who revels in the solitary life of a sign painter. “I think most artists are that way. Whether it's a sign painter or a regular artist, they like that alone thing. When you're doing something that you love. No distractions.” 

Ches and Scott discuss the long history of sign painting, how the field has evolved since the ’70s, and what the future holds for the next generation of sign painters. Ches also shares details about his journey from Newfoundland to Chicago, how he fell in love with sign painting, and the three intensive years he spent learning the fundamentals of signage. Above all, Ches feels grateful to work in a field that brings him so much joy: “People sometimes ask me, ‘When are you gonna retire?’ I say ‘never.’ I never worked a day in my life. This is like a hobby.” 

Tune into today’s episode on the player above to hear our conversation with a true icon of sign painting, Ches Perry. 

Key Points From This Episode:

• Ches’s long history in the industry, starting in the 1970s.
• How his company, Rightway Signs, came to be.
• Digital overload, and the popularity of Ches’s handmade signs.
• Ches’s son, Alex, and the excellent work he’s done marketing Rightway Signs.
• The uniqueness of every sign painter's work.
• Some of the legendary sign painters who taught and inspired Ches.
• How Ches fell in love with sign painting: the course that started it hjbk , ,all.
• The fundamentals of what they learned: fonts, brushstrokes, colorways, and more.
• How layout can make or break your design.
• The clever trick sign painters use to paint signs in reverse on glass surfaces.
• How rooftop signage has evolved and the complex rooftop signs that Ches has done.
• Working with designers and the impact computers have had on sign painting.
• Ches’s upbringing in Newfoundland and how he decided to attend art school in Chicago.
• How Ches met his wife, got married, started a family, and came to own his own business.
• Becoming a coffee drinker, training the next generation, and an overview of just a few of the amazing things that Ches has achieved with his company.

For more information, please visit http://notrealart.com/ches-perry

For artists and entrepreneurs, risk comes with the territory. Today’s guest, Los Angeles artist Tomer Peretz, embraces uncertainty in his career by making as many gaffes, blunders, and flubs as possible. “We [make] a lot of bad choices,” says Tomer, whose iconic “Bad Choices” t-shirt is emblematic of his philosophy on art: Make lots of mistakes. 

On today’s podcast episode, host and NOT REAL ART founder Scott “Sourdough” Power sits down with Tomer Peretz to discuss the Israeli artist’s now-thriving practice and the risks it took to get there. “I intend to [make] mistakes,” he says. “Sometimes, it works and turns into a great choice. But sometimes it stays as a bad choice. In this case, in [some of my riskier] creations, I thought, ‘I'm ruining my entire relationship and my entire career,’ and it actually turned into a really good thing for me.” 

Before landing in L.A. to start his art career, Tomer served in the Israeli military and backpacked across South America. His practice, inspired by travel, stories, and the people he’s met along the way, spans various mediums, including painting, photography, fashion, performance art, and NFTs. “The most creative people in the world, they're not afraid to get out of their comfort zone and just try new things,” he says. 

In this episode, Tomer reveals how he leveraged his “bad choices” into a successful career in the arts. Listeners will also gain insight into his super limited-edition fashion collection, which he describes as “one-off” works of art. Tomer covers everything from courage and experimentation to storytelling and spiritual wandering in this episode, so tune in, and learn about the joys of risk without regret. 

Key Points From This Episode:

• Insight into Tomer’s limited edition fashion collection.
• Questionable decisions that inspired his ‘Bad Choices’ t-shirt.
• The importance of getting out of your comfort zone as an artist.
• Ways that Tomer’s life experiences have informed his work.
• His time in South America, why he fell in love with LA, and how travel inspires him.
• Insight into Tomer’s gallery representation and how he built connections in Milan.
• The community-driven motivations behind his gallery in DTLA.
• Why he believes storytelling in art is more important than technical skill.
• Questions about mortality that inform Tomer’s life and work.
• Where he finds hope as a “spiritual wanderer” and why he chooses to embrace failure.
• How Burning Man inspires Tomer and informs his outlook on life.

For more information, please visit http://notrealart.com/tomer-peretz

Welcome back to the Laugh Gallery as we continue to bring you brilliant comedy sets from our recent 420 event. Adam Barnhardt is on the mic today, and his impeccable timing and transcendental characterization earn him the title of a true comedic genius! After our hosts break the ice with some amusing country song titles and lyrics, Adam takes the stage to talk about how strange life is in L.A., with anecdotes of owning a dog, the hypocrisy of “woke,” the inconvenience of COVID, and the freaks that exist in every corner of L.A. Adam also reminds us to stop being assholes as he explains why he’s letting go is his resting oh-my-fucking-god face, and why using drugs is still a bad idea. Tune in now to find out why homelessness is freedom, how laughter is medicine, why angry people are easier to trust, and why not all gay people are the same. Adam is a very physical comedian, so his jokes might be a little strange to listen to without the visuals, so be sure to head over to our YouTube channel for the full experience of his wonderful set! 

Links Mentioned in Today’s Episode:

Adam Barnhardt

Adam Barnhardt on Twitter

Adam Barnhardt on Facebook

‘Adam Barnhardt | Laugh Gallery Stand Up Comedy’ 

Crewest Studio on YouTube 

Crewest Studio

Laugh Gallery

Laugh Gallery on Instagram

Scott “Sourdough” Power

Katie Love

Happy Halloween, trick-or-treaters! Grab some candy corn, a mug of hot cider, and a blanket—it’s time for our third and final art world horror story of the year. Produced by NOT REAL ART parent company Crewest Studio, Art World Horror Stories is a podcast series about bad things that happen to good artists. 

On today’s podcast episode, host and NOT REAL ART founder Scott “Sourdough” Power shares some spine-tingling anecdotes from his personal collection of art world horror stories. Rather than indulging every screwup and screw over from his 30-year career in the arts, Scott distills the horror into five practical tips for artists at every stage of their careers. “One of the lessons I've learned over 30 years in the art world, working with artists and doing projects with clients, is that poor negotiation skills result in bad deals,” he says. “Get that signed contract. You will live a happier, healthier life, not horrified and mortified by art world shenanigans.”

Tuning in, you’ll learn about the value of comprehensive communication, solid negotiation, copyright protection, clear contracts, and stoking demand for original art. Yes, bad things still happen to good artists, but they’re significantly less likely if you implement Scott’s hard-won lessons. “One of the fundamental reasons that bad things happen to good artists is because of financial reasons,” he says. “We need money to live and to work. Ultimately, when we're struggling to make ends meet, it's harder to do good deals and communicate better because you're strapped, you're paranoid, and you're stressed out, so you want to do that deal.

“Good, clear, comprehensive, real-time communication is essential to avoiding an art world horror story.”

Key Points From This Episode:

• The spooky history of Halloween and trick-or-treating, which goes back 2,000 years.
• Why bad things happen to good artists when communication isn’t prioritized.
• The art of negotiation: why poor negotiators tend to make poor deals.
• Benefits of investing in copyright protection for your work.
• How a signed contract can help you avoid art world shenanigans.
• What a “weak demand for cultural products” means for your art practice.

For more information, please visit http://notrealart.com/art-world-horror-stories-five-lessons

Halloween is just around the corner, which means spooky season is alive and well at NOT REAL ART. To get listeners into the spirit, we’ve got another episode of Art World Horror Stories on deck this week. If you missed last week’s episode with muralist Amandalynn, head there now to hear about her terrifying fall from high-rise scaffolding and the slow but steady recovery process that followed. 

On today’s episode, host and NOT REAL ART founder Scott “Sourdough” Power sits down with longtime friend and close collaborator Man One to discuss the graffiti artist’s disastrous mural project for the Center for Disease Control (CDC). “This is one of those stories where it just keeps getting worse and worse and worse,” says Man One, an LA-based illustrator, curator, and entrepreneur who’s been an active member of the art world for 20 years. “I'm going to forewarn you, this horror story gets worse!”

From racial slurs and defamation to vandalism and cease and desist letters, the project was plagued by obstacles from the start. “Every single day, some old person would stop by, yell at us, flip us off,” Man One says. “This [was] the least threatening mural that I have ever done in my life, and [I was] getting the most flak that I've ever received!” The project’s concept? A fun, colorful mural promoting the benefits of exercise and play for children in the neighborhood. “The first thing [this experience] did was open my eyes, not to be so naive about coming into a community [with a mural] and thinking that people are going to be on board just because it's a positive message.”

Today’s episode is peppered with unexpected surprises and a few life lessons from Man One himself. “Expect the unexpected,” he says. “As an artist, I always have to be aware that there's something that I'm not aware of. There's the unknown. There's something that I'm not seeing, but I’ve got to keep my ears and eyes open so that, when it shows up, I can address it, whatever it may be.” 

With more twists and turns than an M. Night Shyamalan film, Man One’s horror story is one for the books. Tune into today’s episode for a dose of art-world dread. 

Key Points From This Episode:

• The brief: a fun, high-visibility mural project promoting physical activity for kids.
• Cue the red flags, starting with getting permission from members of a gated community.
• The trouble that arose, even after the project had gotten the go-ahead.
• Racial slurs, cease and desist letters, defamatory newsletters, and more!
• Vandalism that took place just when Man One thought it couldn’t get any worse.
• The insane lengths that those opposed to the mural went to (even suing the CDC!)
• Why Man One goes straight to the hood now when asked to find a wall for a project.
• Reflecting on the power of art to bring people together but also to divide.
• Lessons that Man One took away from this experience and how it impacted his practice.

For more information, please visit http://notrealart.com/art-world-horror-stories-man-one

Being a muralist is risky. From balancing on high-rise scaffolding to navigating busy public spaces, beautifying building facades comes with its own set of liabilities. There’s an art to recognizing potential hazards and putting necessary precautions in place, but unfortunately, accidents are bound to happen. 

On today’s podcast episode, Scott “Sourdough” Power sits down with muralist Amandalynn to discuss the artist’s unexpected fall from a scaffold earlier this year. Based in North Carolina, Amandalynn is a conservator and art director whose large-scale murals steep cities in lush botanicals and feminine magic, providing a brief escape from crude, masculine architecture and urban anxiety.

In March 2023, Amandalynn plummeted from the security of her painting scaffold while working on a client’s ceiling. “The first thing I thought when I opened my eyes was, ‘Why is there paint all over [my client’s] books?’” she tells Scott. “I wasn't comprehending why I was looking at books. Then I tried to move and realized that something was really wrong.”

The fall shattered Amandalynn’s ribs and pelvis. After a trip to the ICU, the muralist returned home, supported by friends, patrons, and a “circle of witches” who cared for Amandalynn during her recovery. “It was incredibly humbling to see everyone come together and donate to me,” she says. “People are still trying to give me money!”

Sometimes bad things happen to good artists, but Amandalynn proves there’s light at the end of a dark tunnel. In this episode, she shares the story of her terrible tumble, how it could have been prevented, and the challenges she faced during recovery. Tune into today’s special episode of Art World Horror Stories to hear how Amandalynn turned her trauma into a learning experience. “It has been pretty beautiful in the last year since I started back up again,” she says. “I've enjoyed my work a lot more.”

Key Points From This Episode:

• The story of the fall that took Amandalynn out of commission for six months.
• Ways that this accident could have been prevented (hint: it’s why guardrails exist!)
• Reasons that artists need personal liability insurance or worker’s compensation coverage.
• What the pain was like and why it looked like Amandalynn was covered in tar.
• How Amandalynn’s ambulance ended up in a ditch on the way to the ER.
• Why ending up in ICU was a godsend and how Dr. Axelrod screwed her back together.
• The “circle of witches” that cared for Amandalynn once she returned home.
• Radical acceptance and the importance of learning to ask for help.
• Insight into Amandalynn’s recovery process, which included rigorous physical therapy.
• Lessons that she took from this experience, including the value of slowing down.

For more information, please visit http://notrealart.com/art-world-horror-stories-amandalynn

Where you grow up can have a huge influence on you, from the friends you make to the schools you attend. And while it’s not always recognized as such, Montreal is a uniquely vibrant and diverse city, with exceptionally high rates of integration that set it apart from other cosmopolitan areas like New York and Los Angeles, both of which are home to diverse communities, but still contend with high levels of segregation.

Today we are joined by Ric'key Pageot, an accomplished LA-based musician and Steinway Artist who has played piano and accordion for the likes of Diana Ross, Madonna, Cher, Dr. John, and many more. In this conversation, we talk with Ric'key about his upbringing in Montreal, how it exposed him to different cultures, why he was set on attending McGill University, and how his career has unfolded since. He describes what it was like growing up in a family filled with talented musicians — and the various concerts they held — before reflecting on his time at McGill and how it prepared him for life as a performer. We also talk about Parlor Social, the band that he started with his wife, Dessy Di Lauro, and how their music pays homage to Harlem Renaissance culture while also moving it forward.

Ric’key’s life as a musician has led him down some incredible paths, and in today’s show he reflects on his journey, the many lessons he’s learned, and some of the amazing people he’s met along the way.  So sit back, relax, and tune in to this fascinating conversation with Ric'key Pageot!

Key Points From This Episode:

• Ric’key’s upbringing in Montreal and what it was like being part of a musical household.
• How he discovered the piano and the jam sessions he had with his family.
• Ric’key’s Haitian heritage and how it influenced his career as a musician.
• The story of how he would sometimes bump into Justin Trudeau as a child.
• Some facts about the professional art school Ric’key attended as a teenager.
• The music that inspired Ric’key growing up: classical music, R&B, and hip-hop.
• Why Ric’key decided to earn his BA in jazz performance at McGill University in Montreal.
• How combo class prepared Ric’key to become a professional jazz musician.
• An overview of the traditional jazz musicians that have had the biggest influence on Ric’key.
• Ric’key’s first tour with Madonna and how he met Herbie Hancock.
• What it was like being a touring musician while still studying at McGill.
• Ric’key’s experience with Dr. John and his band.
• The diversity of Montreal, why it's uniquely well-integrated, and the positive impact this had on Ric’key.
• What it was like working for Cirque du Soleil.
• Why he learned to play the accordion and how that helped him get a job with Madonna.
• Ric’key and his wife Dessy Di Lauro’s group, Parlor Social, and how their music pays homage to Harlem Renaissance culture while also moving it forward.
• How the COVID-19 pandemic affected Parlor Social. 
• Hear about their upcoming performance at the Newport Beach Jazz Festival.

Links Mentioned in Today’s Episode:

Ric'key Pageot on LinkedIn

Ric'key Pageot on Instagram

Ric'key Pageot - Steinway & Sons

Madonna

Christina Aguilera

Diana Ross

Cher

Jill Scott

Earth Wind & Fire

Dr. John

Cirque du Soleil

Dessy Di Lauro

Parlor Social

École secondaire Pierre-Laporte

Brand Nubian

Big Daddy Kane

A Tribe Called Quest

De La Soul

Bob James

Ron Carter

McGill University

Herbie Hancock

Bill Evans

McCoy Tyner

Horace Silver

Gonzalo Rubalcaba

Quincy Jones

Chick Corea

Earl Van Dyke

The Beach Boys

Professor Longhair

Flaco Jiménez

Portrait of Tracy

Newport Beach Jazz Festival

Crewest Studio

DanUbe Productions

SquadCast

Polymash

Captivate

We Edit Podcasts

Universal Audio

Audio-Technica

NOT REAL ART

Does the name Keith Haring ring any bells? How about Jean-Michel Basquiat? In the 1980s, New York was home to some of the art world’s biggest celebrities. But what does this iconic era look like from the perspective of someone who never “made it”?

On today’s podcast episode, host and NOT REAL ART founder Scott “Sourdough” Power sits down with Brian Vincent and Heather Spore to discuss the duo’s latest documentary, Make Me Famous. Directed and edited by Brian and produced by Heather, the film follows the rise and fall of the East Village art scene from the unlikely perspective of Edward Brezinski, a decidedly un-famous neo-expressionist painter who worked alongside Keith Haring and Jean-Michel Basquiat but never quite reached the same levels of success.

“[There] was a duality that [artists like Edward Brezinski] had,” says Brian. “They both wanted to be famous and they also didn’t want to look like they were selling out.” 

“We live in a world where money is so lifted up,” adds Heather. “You’re successful because you have money. We think there’s heroism in just giving your all to your art. We think that the world needs a little more of that right now. I think there’s inspiration in looking at a creative moment in American history, in New York City, in the ’80s, in the East Village, with this group of punk, angsty youth just trying to do something with their lives.”

In today’s episode, Brian and Heather open up about their project, unpacking why such a well-connected artist never became widely known. They also discuss the commodification of fame, the instrumental role that rare archival footage plays in Make Me Famous, and how the film creates a window into a pivotal moment in art history.

Key Points From This Episode:

• The kind of famous Edward Brezinski would be in today’s social media age.
• Fame as a commodity that artists could use to get more work.
• The Make Me Famous timeline and what it was like to work with artists rather than actors.
• How the concept for the film evolved (and how it was originally conceived of as a play).
• A look at the veritable treasure trove of archival footage that makes the film what it is.
• Some pivotal moments and surprising milestones in the making of Make Me Famous.
• From actors to filmmakers: a glimpse into Brian and Heather’s personal journeys.
• The punk do-it-yourself spirit of 1980s New York that the film encapsulates.
• How the story developed in multiple directions before zeroing in on Brezinski.
• Challenges that accompanied working with Brezinski’s close acquaintances.
• Some light-hearted speculation about what Brezinski would think of this film.
• Why the best advice Heather could have given her younger self is no advice.
• Making art history fun: the best compliment our guests received about the film.
• The inspiration that even non-art-lovers will take from Make Me Famous.

For more information, please visit http://notrealart.com/make-me-famous

Yesterday, we published our first photo essay on ICONS: A Conversation with Legendary Graffiti Artists Prime and Man One. Moderated by NOT REAL ART founder Scott “Sourdough” Power, the conversation between legendary L.A. graffiti artists Prime and Jose “Prime” Reza unfolded at Helms Bakery District in Culver City, CA, as part of the traveling exhibition Close to the Edge: The Birth of Hip-Hop Architecture. 

On today’s podcast episode, we present the entire conversation between Scott, Prime, and Man One during the ICONS event on Sept. 15, 2023. The three longtime friends chat about the birth and evolution of graffiti in L.A., supplementing the conversation with personal stories about their experiences in the scene. “[Graffiti] has gotten a lot more attention as an art form,” says Jose “Prime” Reza, who flooded the gallery walls of Close to the Edge with his distinct hybrid of Cholo lettering and East Coast-style writing. “[Cholo writing was] my stepping stone into the arts,” he tells Scott. “It has opened my eyes with regard to what it is and what it was used for.”

Curated by Sekou Cooke, Close to the Edge: The Birth of Hip-Hop Architecture explores the rich world of hip-hop, from the movement’s fundamental elements, like emceeing and graffiti, to its lesser-known impact on design and architecture. The exhibition includes groundbreaking work from students, academics, and practitioners that’s rooted in hip-hop’s core ethos: identity, process, and aesthetics. The exhibition features experimental visualizations, installations, façade studies, building designs, and urban development proposals.

If you missed yesterday’s photo essay on the ICONS event, make sure to head that way now. Then pop on your headphones for an in-depth conversation on the intersection of hip-hop, graffiti, gentrification, and the urban environment of L.A.

Key Points From This Episode:

• Man One reflects on the impact that Prime’s work had on him as a young artist.
• What hip-hop means to each of our panelists: freedom of expression.
• The stories of how Man One and Prime got their names.
• Dispelling some common misconceptions about hip-hop.
• Insight into the relationship between graffiti artists and the urban environment.
• How public perception of graffiti has changed and the important role of education.
• The evolution of Los Angeles from the perspective of two of its OG graffiti artists.
• Ways that the city has come to embrace graffiti as public art.
• Gentrification as a double-edged sword and the role that artists play.
• Opportunities for developers to work with artists and include the community.
• A look at what Prime has written on the walls for Close to the Edge.
• Man One’s recent experience on assignment with the US Embassy in Nepal.
• The distinct lettering style that Prime uses and why it’s unique to LA.
• How Prime’s approach to his artistic practice has developed over the years.
• What the future of graffiti (in museums and on the streets) looks like.
• The relationship between images and language in Prime and Man One’s work.

For more information, please visit http://notrealart.com/icons