Notes from The Grey Hill

Join Barry Robertson, founder of The Grey Hill, for a walking update recorded live at Mount Stuart on the Isle of Bute.

In this episode, Barry covers:

• The brand new Grey Hill website overhaul and introduction of gift cards
• Upcoming digital author events launching November/December
• New Ebooks from Ayrshire in partnership with Carn Publishing
• Why the current audio drama income model isn't working for creators and what The Grey Hill is doing differently
• The three partnership tiers for arts organisations looking to go digital with The Grey Hill
• The Covid Changes audio theatre production and a call out for Scottish voiceover actors -
• Whether regional theatres need to rethink performance times and transport connections for audiences (my last bus home is 19:50)
• And a genuine hidden gem recommendation if you've never been to Mount Stuart
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Subscribe for updates on The Grey Hill, audio theatre, and the future of digital arts.

🎧 Find our ebooks and audio drama at ⁠thegreyhill.com⁠📍 Recorded live at ⁠Mount Stuart, Isle of Bute⁠

In this episode, recorded on a walk through Eglinton Country Park, founder Barry Robertson shares the real story behind The Grey Hill — from his years working in Scottish theatre, to the 40 pence royalty statement that changed everything, to building the store, app and audio theatre model from scratch.

Barry talks candidly about:

• Why he left theatre and what led him to audio drama
• The royalty realisation that made him rethink the whole model
• How The Grey Hill works — ebooks, audiobooks, and audio theatre, all in one app
• The Six Scottish Stories bundle and the six Scottish locations behind it
• Working with Equity and ITC to build fair contracts for creatives
• What's next: author events, live digital events, and new theatre partnerships

This is a video podcast episode — recorded as a walk-and-talk, with natural pauses to take in the surroundings. Best enjoyed watched rather than just listened to, but works either way.

Links mentioned in this episode

• Shop The Grey Hill
• Six Scottish Stories Bundle
• Download The Grey Hill App

Follow The Grey Hill:

• Instagram
• Facebook
• TikTok
• YouTube

Got a story to tell, or work in theatre and want to talk about audio drama?

Get in touch — links above, or find us on any platform.

Notes from The Grey Hill with Barry Robertson

This is the final episode of Season 1. Over seven episodes, we've explored why audio theatre matters, how to pay artists fairly, who it serves, and where it fits in your business model. But this episode is about the future—not next season or next year, but the future measured in decades. Ten years. Twenty years. Fifty years. Even seventy years after the people who made the work are gone.

The Theatre in the UK 2026 report shows theatres need revenue diversification. 36% of organisations expect deficits this year, rising to 51% among subsidised theatres. Audio theatre provides that diversification—but only if the rights are structured properly from the beginning. The decisions you make today about contracts, royalties, and rights determine what happens in 2050, 2070, and 2096.

Drawing on copyright law, union agreements with escalating royalty structures, and examples from music, film, and publishing, Barry explores:

• The long tail: how audio theatre creates assets that keep earning for decades, unlike ephemeral live productions that disappear when the run ends
• How royalties evolve over time: early returns reward producers who take financial risk; long-tail income rewards artists whose work keeps earning; surplus ticket income can accelerate recoupment so everyone earns more sooner
• Legacy and estate planning: UK/EU copyright lasts 70 years post-death, meaning families continue to receive royalties; why artists need to have conversations now about who manages their rights and how estates can be contacted
• Translation and global reach: secondary licensing allows work created in one language to reach audiences in Gaelic, Welsh, Spanish, French, or any other language across territorial markets
• Community use: how theatre outreach departments can create audio theatre WITH young people and community groups; how amateur dramatic societies and youth theatre companies can make and sell their own recordings locally
• Why audio is more accessible than filmed theatre: lower technical barriers and costs mean more venues can participate—from large subsidised theatres to small community spaces

This isn't about replacing live theatre. It's about extending its value. The work happens on stage first, exactly as it would anyway. But instead of disappearing when the run ends, it keeps working—generating income, building reputations, reaching audiences, and supporting families for seventy years, not seventy nights.

Season 1 Recap: Episode 1 (why audio, why now) → Episode 2 (new writing development) → Episode 3 (fair contracts) → Episode 4 (reaching lost audiences) → Episode 5 (low-risk pilots) → Episode 6 (business models) → Episode 7 (legacy and the long tail). The Theatre in the UK 2026 report shows the problem. Audio theatre is part of the solution.

Chapters:

00:00 Introduction
02:55 The Long Tail
05:07 How Royalties Evolve Over Time
09:09 Why This Matters for Venues
10:04 Legacy - Estates and Next of Kin
11:02 Why Legacy Rights Matter
12:11 Contrast with Live Theatre
13:27 Why This Matters Now
14:37 A Practical Note on Estate Planning
16:32 Translation & Global Reach
18:04 Why This Matters
19:48 Long-Tail + Translation = Global Reach Over Decades
20:49 Education, Outreach & Community Use
21:06 Theatre Education & Outreach Programmes
22:02 Amateur Dramatic Societies and Youth Theatre Companies
23:32 Bringing It All Together - Over the Past 7 Episodes
27:37 On the Next Episode

Links:

• ⁠⁠⁠The Grey Hill Website⁠⁠⁠
• ⁠⁠⁠Barry Robertson LinkedIn⁠⁠⁠

Music by ⁠⁠⁠https://www.bensound.com⁠⁠⁠ | License code: 0YZPRSAEYDVUNFSE | Artist: Benjamin Tissot

Where does audio theatre fit in your business model? Whether you're a producing house making your own work or a presenting venue programming touring content, this episode explores how audio theatre creates revenue diversification, extends geographic reach, and builds long-term value—without competing with live ticket sales.

This week, the Theatre in the UK 2026 report landed with stark numbers: 36% of organisations expect deficits this year, rising to 51% among subsidised theatres. Real-terms ticket prices have fallen 8.9% since 2019. Theatres globally face the same structural squeeze: costs rising faster than revenue, ticket prices that can't keep pace, and touring economics under strain. Revenue diversification isn't optional anymore—it's essential.

Drawing on the Theatre in the UK 2026 report, cinema windowing models, and union frameworks that now make audio capture viable, Barry explores:

• How producing houses can extend the value of work they're already making—capturing live productions or commissioning audio-first to test demand before investing in full staging
• The cinema model: theatrical release, rental, purchase, streaming—and how theatre can think the same way about different audiences and revenue windows
• Why audio theatre is a data-driven development pathway for new writing, proving market demand before committing to full production investment
• How presenting venues can work with local companies, negotiate with touring artists, and support community outreach while ensuring fair pay through union contracts
• Script-in-hand performances with audio soundscape as a low-cost alternative to traditional touring—a model that's now possible with new union agreements
• Secondary licensing for translation: how work created in one language can reach global audiences in Gaelic, Welsh, Spanish, or any other language
• Why keeping revenue local matters: theatres as economic anchors generating £1.40 in local activity for every £1 spent, versus global platforms that extract value offshore

This isn't about replacing live theatre. It's about reaching new audiences, generating income from work you've already made, and building assets that keep earning long after the final performance. For theatres under financial pressure, audio theatre provides revenue diversification that supports your mission without competing with your core business.

Chapters:

00:00 Introduction
03:32 Producing Houses - If You Make Work
04:56 The Cinema Model
06:55 What This Means for Producing Houses
09:42 Why This Matters for New Writing
12:48 The Infrastructure You Need
13:46 Presenting Houses
15:15 Working Locally
16:57 Touring Artists
18:35 What This Requires
19:40 Both Models - Why This Matters
19:53 Revenue Diversification
21:17 Geographic Reach
22:19 Long-Term Value
23:42 Keeping Money Local
25:45 You're Not Doing This Alone
26:50 On the Next Episode

Podcast links:

• ⁠⁠The Grey Hill Website⁠⁠
• ⁠⁠Barry Robertson LinkedIn⁠⁠

Music by ⁠⁠https://www.bensound.com⁠⁠ | License code: 0YZPRSAEYDVUNFSE | Artist: Benjamin Tissot

You don't need to overhaul your entire organisation to test audio theatre. You don't need a digital team, a five-year strategy, or a complete transformation of how you work. You need one project. One test. One opportunity to learn what works for your venue.

But where do you start? What does a realistic first pilot actually look like? And how do you know if it's succeeding when revenue isn't the only measure that matters?

In this episode, Barry Robertson walks through how to start small, test smart, and build confidence — using the skills, staff, and programming you already have. From comedy nights to literary events to fully staged productions, the entry point depends on what you already do well.

Drawing on examples from venues testing audio theatre across the UK, Barry unpacks:

• What audio theatre actually is — and why it's a genre, not just a recording format
• Five different entry points: comedy, music, literary events, staged productions, and script-in-hand readings
• Why proper artist agreements and union-approved contracts are non-negotiable from day one
• How being early in a forming market is an advantage — not a risk
• What success looks like beyond revenue: geographic spread, audience feedback, staff confidence, and funding evidence
• Why you don't need new hires — your literary, marketing, and box office teams already have the skills
• How digital and live serve different audiences without cannibalising each other
• The infrastructure barrier that's been removed: storefront, hosting, payment processing, and delivery
• Why collaborative capacity matters more than isolated experiments

This episode is for theatre leaders ready to test — but unsure where to begin, what to measure, or whether their team can actually deliver this without becoming a tech company.

Chapters:

00:00 – Introduction
01:48 – Different Entry Points
05:27 – Setting Realistic Expectations
07:24 – What Success Looks Like
09:47 – Using Existing Staff and Skills
11:53 – How Digital and Live Support Each Other
13:37 – The Infrastructure You Need
14:24 – You're Not Doing This Alone
16:07 – On the Next Episode

Podcast links:

• ⁠The Grey Hill Website⁠
• ⁠Barry Robertson LinkedIn⁠

Music by ⁠https://www.bensound.com⁠ | License code: 0YZPRSAEYDVUNFSE | Artist: Benjamin Tissot

Your work is good enough. People want to experience it. So why aren't they there?

Not every empty seat is a marketing problem. Some of your audience can't get to you — not because they don't care, but because live theatre at 7:30pm on a Tuesday simply doesn't fit their life. Rural communities too far to justify the journey. Disabled audiences navigating public transport that wasn't built for them. Shift workers. Carers. Young people who consume culture on their commute and have never thought of regional theatre as something that exists for them.

In this episode, Barry Robertson gets specific about who those audiences are, why audio theatre reaches them when nothing else does, and why serving them is both the right thing to do and smart business.

Drawing on pilot project data from the Gaiety in Ayr and years of sector experience, Barry unpacks:

• The five audience groups regional theatres are currently failing to reach — and why
• Why only 3 in 10 UK theatres list access services online, and what that signals
• Why audio removes physical, scheduling, and economic barriers in ways video never can
• How digital access acts as a stepping stone to live attendance — not a replacement for it
• Why venues already recording their shows are sitting on untapped revenue
• The business case: new income streams, risk diversification, and stronger funding applications
• Why choosing local audio theatre over a streaming platform is the cultural equivalent of shopping independent — and why audiences already understand that instinct

This episode is for artistic directors, CEOs, and producers who believe access is a value — and want to understand how to act on it without giving their work away for free.

Chapters:

00:00 – Introduction02:00 – The Audiences You're Missing06:00 – Why Audio Is Uniquely Accessible10:00 – A Stepping Stone, Not a Substitute12:00 – If You're Already Recording16:00 – The Business Case19:00 – Where the Money Goes23:00 – What This Enables for Venues25:00 – On the next episode

Podcast links:

• The Grey Hill Website
• Barry Robertson LinkedIn

Music by https://www.bensound.com | License code: 0YZPRSAEYDVUNFSE | Artist: Benjamin Tissot

Here's your complete Episode 3 description with accurate timestamps:

Notes from The Grey Hill with Barry Robertson

Episode 3: Fair Pay & Future-Proof Contracts – What Audio Theatre Agreements Must Include

The biggest barrier stopping UK theatres from going digital isn't technical capacity or audience interest. It's confidence. Confidence that they won't exploit creatives. Confidence that contracts are fair. Confidence that they're not risking their reputation by guessing what "fair payment" means in a digital context.

For years, there were no established frameworks for audio theatre. No union guidance for this hybrid model where there's a live performance with ticket sales AND a digital recording. No standard contracts. No clarity on how BBC Radio Drama rates should adapt to theatre. Venues that wanted to explore digital simply didn't know where to start.

In this episode, Barry Robertson shares the frameworks he built through years of consultation with WGGB, Equity, and author agents in Scotland — and why having proper contracts attached to audio theatre is a massive milestone that gives the entire sector confidence to move forward.

Drawing on firsthand experience testing platforms and building fair payment models, Barry unpacks:

• Why audio theatre has different economics than pure audio formats — and why that matters
• The five questions every audio theatre contract must answer (upfront payment, royalty participation, escalation, creative control, transparency)
• How BBC Radio Drama rates were adapted for theatre contexts where live performance and digital meet
• Why traditional platforms like Audible don't work for venues or communities — and what does
• How audio theatre generates income multiple ways: live performances, touring, and digital sales
• What "union-aligned" actually means — and why it's about confidence, not compliance
• Why transparent definitions (net vs gross, expenses, audit rights) prevent disputes years down the line
• How writers keep their IP by default, but contracts can flex for exclusive rights when needed
• Why fair contracts are good business — better talent, better morale, better work

This episode addresses the question theatre leaders are really asking: "Can we do this properly without spending years figuring it out ourselves?"

The answer: Yes. The frameworks exist. The union conversations have happened. The work is done.

If you're a CEO, artistic director, or producer wondering how to move quickly into audio theatre without exploitation, guesswork, or reputational risk — this episode shows you what's already been built and how to access it.

Chapters:

00:00 – Episode 3 Introduction
01:48 – Why Contracts Matter More in Digital
04:51 – The Five Questions Every Contract Must Answer
08:06 – Audio Theatre Generates Income Multiple Ways
09:17 – Why Platforms Don't Work – and What Does
11:30 – What Union-Aligned Actually Means
13:13 – What Writers Keep vs What Theatres License
14:39 – Why Getting This Right Protects Theatres Too
16:33 – On the Next Episode

Podcast links:

• The Grey Hill Website
• Barry Robertson LinkedIn

Music by https://www.bensound.com
License code: 0YZPRSAEYDVUNFSE
Artist: Benjamin Tissot

Notes from The Grey Hill with Barry Robertson

Episode 2: Audio Theatre and New Writing – A Development Pathway

New writing has never been more vital to UK theatre — and never been harder to programme. Tight budgets, risk-averse boards, and rising production costs mean artistic development teams are forced to choose between dozens of brilliant scripts, knowing they can only afford to stage a handful.

But what if there was a middle step? A way to commission writers, test new work with real audiences, and gather proof of concept before committing to a full production budget?

In this episode, Barry Robertson explores how audio theatre creates a development pathway that's been missing from theatre for decades — drawing on the legacy of BBC Radio Drama's golden age and adapting it for modern venues.

Drawing on real examples and practical process breakdowns, Barry unpacks:

• Why BBC Radio Drama cuts have left writers without opportunities — and why theatres are the natural successor
• How audio theatre functions as a "pilot" system, similar to television development
• The step-by-step process: from commission to rehearsal, live performance with audience, recording, and digital release
• What writers experience — fair payment, royalty participation, and retained IP rights
• How literary teams, directors, and sound engineers collaborate to create audio drama
• Why this doesn't replace live programming — it extends it and creates additive revenue
• How audio gives independent artists proof of concept for funding applications
• Why you don't need a new digital department to make this work

This episode addresses the practical questions artistic directors, literary managers, and producers are asking: How does this actually work? Who gets paid? What does the writer retain? And how do we make this happen without overhauling our entire organisation?

If you commission or develop new work — and you're navigating the impossible tension between artistic ambition and budget reality — this episode shows you a pathway forward.

Chapters:

00:00 – Introduction: Ten Scripts, Three Productions01:40 – The Crisis Facing New Writing04:00 – Theatre as the Natural Successor to BBC Radio Drama08:00 – Audio as a Development Pathway Theatre Never Had11:00 – Proof of Concept: The Gaiety Example13:30 – What This Looks Like in Practice: The Six-Step Process18:00 – Addressing the Jobs Concern20:30 – How Writers Get Paid: Live and Digital Rights23:30 – You Don't Need a Digital Department26:00 – Independent Artists and Proof of Concept27:30 – What's Coming Next: Fair Pay and Future-Proof Contracts

Podcast links:

• The Grey Hill Website
• Barry Robertson LinkedIn

Music by https://www.bensound.com
License code: 0YZPRSAEYDVUNFSE
Artist: Benjamin Tissot

Notes from The Grey Hill with Barry Robertson

In this first episode, we explore why audio theatre is emerging as one of the most accessible and sustainable innovations for UK venues.

UK theatres are facing one of the most challenging periods in recent history — shrinking budgets, rising costs, staff burnout, and fewer opportunities to take artistic risks. Yet, at the same time, audiences haven’t disappeared. They’ve changed how, when, and where they engage with culture.

In this opening episode, Barry Robertson explores why audio theatre has emerged as a practical, sustainable way for venues to reach more people, support local artists, and generate long‑tail income without becoming tech companies or building platforms from scratch.

Drawing on his own journey from North Ayrshire to national stages, Barry unpacks:

• The economic pressures facing regional and national theatre
• What global leaders like Audible Theatre and NT Live have already proven
• Why audio theatre offers reach far beyond a venue’s physical catchment area
• How real theatres are already using audio to extend programming and access
• The business logic behind capturing performances as long‑term digital assets
• The barriers that have historically stopped theatres from going digital — and what’s changed
• How The Grey Hill supports venues with infrastructure, rights frameworks, and a practical model that respects and protects creatives

This isn’t about replacing live performance.
It’s about unlocking the value of the work you already make and making it accessible to audiences who can’t be in the room.

If you’re a theatre leader navigating uncertainty — and exploring how digital can strengthen, not dilute, your artistic mission — this episode sets the foundation for what’s possible.

Chapters:

00:07 – Introduction: Why Audio Theatre Matters to Me
00:36 – The Reality Facing UK Theatre
03:59 – What the Rest of the World Has Already Learned
06:21 – Why Audio Theatre Makes Sense Now
09:21 – The Business Logic Behind Audio
12:03 – The Barriers That Have Held Theatres Back
15:27 – Why This Is an Access Revolution
17:07 – What Audio Theatre Looks Like in a Real Venue
20:33 – How The Grey Hill Supports Venues
21:44 – What’s Coming in the Next Episode

Podcast links:

• The Grey Hill Website
• Barry Robertson LinkedIn

Music by ⁠https://www.bensound.com⁠ | License code: 0YZPRSAEYDVUNFSE | Artist: Benjamin Tissot