NXIVM founder Keith Raniere faces sentencing October 27 for his 2019 conviction on federal charges of sex trafficking, conspiracy, and conspiracy to commit forced labor. NXIVM whistleblower Toni Natalie and cult expert Rick Ross played large roles in the investigation that led to Raniere's downfall as head of the shadowy organization.

On this episode of NXIVM on Trial, hear the second half of a 2019 conversation between Natalie, Ross and Senior Editor Brendan Lyons at the Times Union's Hearst Center. During the discussion, they shine a light on the inner workings of NXIVM, including the role played by Seagram's heiress Clare Bronfman.

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices