Office Hours with Angelique and Toby

Thanks so much to our sponsor, Classical Pearls.

In this episode of Office Hours, Angelique and Toby talk through the practical realities of clinical decision-making—from reading a patient’s body and recognizing subtle changes during treatment to knowing when to step back and let the patient become the authority on their own experience.

The conversation begins with a case from Dr. Angela C. Wu involving a patient with a history of recurrent miscarriage who is unsure whether a recent episode of bleeding represents another miscarriage or simply a menstrual period. The case opens a broader discussion about an important clinical principle: whenever possible, we should give patients the tools to recognize and understand their own bodies rather than taking that authority away from them.

The conversation then turns to the pace of clinical practice. The practitioners discuss taking a few breaths between patients, slowing down enough to actually observe what is happening in the room, and using the moments after treatment to notice changes in complexion, expression, and relaxation. A Daoist image of drawing back an arrow before releasing it becomes a useful metaphor for the value of pausing before moving forward.

The episode also includes a sponsor conversation about Classical Pearls and the transition from initial hesitation to actually incorporating the formulas into clinical practice. Angelique shares experiences using Wind Pearls for allergies and Bamboo Pearls for warm, achy joint pain.

The episode closes with a look at the work of building a new acupuncture school—and the financial challenge of creating an educational model that doesn't simply pass startup costs on to students.

Key Topics

* A clinical case involving recurrent miscarriage, irregular menstruation, and uncertainty about the meaning of unexpected bleeding
* Dr. Wu's approach to helping a patient determine what her own body is telling her
* Why clinicians should be careful about taking diagnostic authority away from patients
* Using pulse diagnosis alongside the patient's own embodied experience
* The value of taking a few breaths between patients to reset and become fully present
* How slowing down can actually improve the rhythm and quality of a busy clinic
* The Daoist image of pulling back an arrow before releasing it
* Observing changes in complexion, facial expression, and relaxation during treatment
* How to observe a patient carefully without making them feel watched
* Moving from hesitation to practical use of Classical Pearls
* Clinical experiences with Wind Pearls and Bamboo Pearls
* A Saam acupuncture case involving a gallbladder excess presentation
* Adjusting treatment after an initial experience of excessive needle pain
* Using a patient's own journal to recognize changes following treatment
* The relationship between clinical expertise and the body's own signals
* The challenges of building a new Chinese medicine school and funding its launch

In this episode of Office Hours, Toby and Angelique sit down with Sabine Wilms, PhD to explore classical Chinese medicine, translation, and the deeper meaning behind foundational texts. Sabine shares how her background in East Asian studies, anthropology, and medicine led her to a lifelong practice of translating and teaching ancient Chinese texts.
A major theme of the conversation is the difference between literal translation and lived interpretation. Sabine explains how her book Humming with Elephants grew out of years of teaching and how it aims to bring the Su Wen out of an overly dry academic setting and into a more practical, resonant clinical context. She also breaks down why terms like ben and gen matter, and how small translation choices can completely change how practitioners understand core ideas like “the root” and “the foundation.”
The discussion also goes deep into Sun Simiao’s work, especially the ten months of pregnancy in Yang Tai, postpartum care, and the broader importance of nurturing not just the fetus, but the mother, the family, and the whole cycle of life. Sabine shares that her upcoming projects include a pregnancy volume and a book on Yang Xing (self-cultivation, longevity, and moral/spiritual care).
Another rich thread in the episode is self-cultivation. Sabine reflects on moderation, rest, activity, qigong, swimming, farming, service, and the importance of listening to the body and the seasons. The conversation closes with reflections on presence, silence, poetry, and the deep connection between Buddhism and Chinese medicine.

Topics Covered
Sabine Wilms’ path into Chinese medicine and translation
How translation shapes clinical understanding
The meaning of ben, gen, and bing
Pregnancy, postpartum care, and nurturing the mother
Sun Simiao, Yang Xing, and self-cultivation
Balance, moderation, and seasonal living
Buddhism, Chinese medicine, and presence in care

Notable Quotes
“It’s not correspondences, it’s resonances.”
“You must pursue it in the foundation.”
“You should feel the classics, not analyze them.”

Key Takeaways
Classical Chinese medicine is about more than formulas and point prescriptions; it’s about resonance, context, and worldview.
Translation is interpretive work, and a single character can shift the entire meaning of a text.
Pregnancy and postpartum care in early Chinese medicine place equal importance on the mother, not just the baby.
Self-cultivation is a daily practice of moderation, presence, and listening to the body.

Links:

Sabine’s books and classes: happygoatproductions.com

cmbenevolentacademy.org

Insurance billing can be one of the most frustrating and financially consequential aspects of running an acupuncture practice. In this episode of Office Hours, Dr. Eoin Gregory of Family Billing Solutions explains what practitioners need to know before they sign an insurance contract, submit a claim, or hand their billing over to someone else. Eoin draws on his background as a retired chiropractor and former educator to explain when to bill yourself, when to hire help, and how to avoid the documentation and compliance mistakes that can trigger denials, recoupments, or audits.

We discuss what providers should look for in insurance contracts, why medical necessity matters so much, and how to protect both your practice and your patients when dealing with payers.

Key topics
Dr. Eoin Gregory shares why he moved from clinical practice and teaching into medical billing after an injury ended his chiropractic career.
He explains why new solo practitioners should often bill themselves first, at least long enough to understand coding, documentation, and the real workload involved.
Eoin breaks down why submitting a claim is the easy part, while appeals, benefit checks, follow-up calls, and payer inconsistencies create most of the burden.
He warns providers to be careful with advice from other clinicians, especially when it comes to noncompliant or potentially fraudulent billing strategies.
The conversation covers how to read payer participation agreements, fee schedules, reimbursement caps, and payment policies before signing anything.
Eoin stresses that providers should understand whether a plan is regulated by the state or by ERISA, since that changes who can help when problems arise.
He outlines what to look for in a billing company: transparency, acupuncture-specific experience, availability, manpower, and clear pricing.
The episode highlights why every claim matters for small practices, especially when insurers misstate benefits or recoup money later.
Eoin explains medical necessity in practical terms and why treatment plans, re-exams, and functional goals help support coverage.
He cautions against using mental health diagnoses casually, noting that inaccurate diagnoses can follow patients for years and affect future coverage.
The discussion closes on the importance of educating providers and patients about what insurance actually covers versus what a practice can ethically provide.

Link

https://www.familybilling.com/

Angelique and Toby talk with Warren Sheir about Chinese medicine, nutrition, and the practical power of food as an everyday therapy. The conversation moves from Warren’s background in macrobiotics and traditional Chinese medicine to his book, Ancient Wisdom, Modern Kitchen, and the real-world dietary advice he uses with patients.

What makes this episode useful
It works because it feels practical and relatable: listeners hear concrete food strategies, clinical examples, and a relaxed discussion that makes nutrition feel doable instead of rigid.

Key topics covered
Warren’s path into Chinese medicine
Warren shares how he began his Chinese medicine education in 1995 and how his earlier macrobiotics background shaped his awareness of food energetics, even if he no longer follows that approach strictly.
“Good clean food” in real life
He defines his current approach as:
Whole foods whenever possible
Organic foods whenever possible
Lots of vegetables
Some whole grains
Clean animal products like wild-caught fish and pastured chicken
Simple meals, eaten slowly and without overeating
Why he wrote Ancient Wisdom, Modern Kitchen
Warren explains that the book grew out of a need he saw among students and patients who wanted practical, usable dietary guidance. He and his co-authors wanted recipes that were:
Clear and step-by-step
Rooted in Chinese dietary principles
Helpful for both practitioners and patients
Food as medicine in clinical practice
The conversation explores how dietary changes can sometimes reduce the need for herbs or support treatment more gently, especially for sensitive patients.
Examples discussed include:
Using congee for spleen deficiency diarrhea
Adding food-grade ingredients like fu ling, yi yi ren, lotus seed, and qian shi
Keeping formulas and food recommendations simple so they’re easier to digest and follow
Warming foods and mindful eating
Warren and the hosts discuss:
Warm breakfasts
Cutting back on cold foods, especially in colder seasons
Adding warming spices like ginger and cinnamon
Eating more slowly
Chewing more thoroughly
Creating a more mindful, appreciative eating ritual
Diet change is hard
A major theme is that diet change is often slow and uneven. Warren notes that:
Baby steps matter
Patients often improve, then backslide
Small wins can build momentum
Consistency is more important than perfection
Community and connection
The episode closes with a broader reflection on eating as a communal, connected experience rather than a distracted, isolated one.
Notable moment
Warren describes how one patient seemed to be taking herbs but wasn’t actually preparing them, highlighting how easy it is for people to misunderstand or half-follow treatment plans.
Takeaway
This episode is a grounded reminder that food choices, preparation, timing, and attention can all support health in small but meaningful ways.

In this conversation, Heiner Fruehauf traces his path from a German family of nature-cure physicians to founding the College of Classical Chinese Medicine and coining the term "classical Chinese medicine" . His lifelong effort has been to recover the immaterial, spiritual dimension he argues was filtered out as the medicine passed through a materialist lens. That conviction runs through everything he discusses: why he built the herb company Classical Pearls to protect sourcing and quality, his vision for a new classical Chinese medicine clinical center that proves the medicine in practice rather than in theory, and three decades of scholarship mapping acupuncture points to stars and sacred geography. The episode's centerpiece is a remarkable account from his recent China trip where he finds himself standing at the source of the Ji River on Mount Wangwu and finding the landscape itself mirror the name and nature of the acupuncture point Heart-1.

Main topics

Coining "classical Chinese medicine": the immaterial dimension and the critique of TCM's materialist filter
Herbal integrity — sourcing, contamination, fillers, and why Classical Pearls exists
Crude herbs vs. granules, and freeing new practitioners from ideological rigidity
The vision for a classical Chinese medicine clinical center: demonstrating and documenting outcomes
China trip, part one: Da Tong's healing mineral waters and the barefoot-doctor-turned-benefactor Guo Runli
China trip, part two: Mount Wangwu, the source of the Ji River, and its resonance with Heart-1 (Ji Chuan)
Mapping acupuncture points to stars, rivers, and the macrocosm — 30 years of research
The state of the profession: education, licensure, and the case for clinical centers

00:00 — Introduction to Heiner Fruehauf
02:00 — From a German nature-cure family to Chinese literature, cancer, and Chinese medicine
04:30 — Coining "classical Chinese medicine": the immaterial dimension vs. the TCM materialist filter
07:00 — Practicing classical medicine in a modern, materialist context
09:15 — Herbal integrity: sourcing, contamination, and the case for Classical Pearls
12:00 — Herbs, classical formulas, and manufacturing standards
15:30 — The new clinical center: vision, design, and scope
17:45 — Retreat protocols, treatment durations, and documenting outcomes
20:10 — Healthcare funding, insurance, and banking obstacles
24:00 — Why high-quality herbs and sustainable sourcing matter
28:00 — The global herb market and quality control
31:30 — Education, licensure, and the case for clinical centers
34:00 — China trip, part one: Da Tong's healing mineral waters and benefactor Guo Runli
44:00 — China trip, part two: Mount Wangwu, the source of the Ji River, and Heart-1 (Ji Chuan)
52:00 — Macrocosm and microcosm: acupuncture points mapped to stars and sacred geography
62:00 — Practical advice for practitioners: herbs, formulas, and classical integration
72:00 — The future of Chinese medicine: clinical centers, research, and education
82:00 — Closing thoughts and a possible return conversation

The views and claims expressed in this episode are those of the guest and are shared for educational and informational purposes only. They reflect the perspectives of a classical Chinese medicine tradition and are not medical advice, nor a substitute for diagnosis or treatment by a qualified healthcare provider. Statements about herbs, formulas, mineral waters, pharmaceuticals, and specific health conditions have not been evaluated by the FDA and are not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease. Always consult your physician before making changes to your care, and never stop a prescribed medication without professional guidance.

Join us in this episode as Ellen Goldsmith, acupuncturist and author, discusses the profound role of food in healing and prevention. Whether you're a practitioner or someone curious about integrating Chinese dietary principles, her insights reveal how everyday eating can be a powerful act of self-care and healing.

Timestamps:
00:00 - Introduction to Ellen Goldsmith and episode overview
00:24 - Ellen’s background
01:23 - The evolution of her practice from Shiatsu to Chinese dietetics
02:19 - Teaching health self-care in art and medical schools
03:45 - Why Ellen wrote her book on Chinese food principles
04:42 - Principles of Chinese medicine and the importance of prevention
05:38 - The importance of food as medicine and creating accessible recipes
06:35 - How seasonality influences dietary choices
07:31 - Incorporating condiments and flavor in Chinese dietetics
08:38 - The “who” and “when” in seasonal eating
09:20 - Practical suggestions for spring foods, including asparagus and nettles
10:18 - Using radishes and fermented greens to break congestion
11:38 - Mouthfeel and texture’s role in food enjoyment
13:00 - Delicious ways to prepare rhubarb and emphasize food integrity
14:24 - Quick, nourishing cooking methods aligned with seasonal energy
15:45 - The sensory essence of cooking herbs and aromatics
16:15 - Practitioner dietary recommendations and building competence
17:08 - The importance of deepening one’s own understanding before advising others
18:05 - Observation, self-awareness, and personalized care
19:37 - The balance between conventional medicine and Chinese dietary wisdom
20:05 - Cultural and emotional elements influencing food choices
21:02 - The process of gradual change in nutrition practices
22:07 - Ellen’s experience working with practitioners and case studies
23:27 - The influence of mainstream medicine and culinary medicine initiatives
24:55 - Dr. David Eisenberg’s pioneering work on nutrition and Chinese medicine
26:49 - Food-based lifestyle integration in medical education
27:19 - The importance of cooking in practitioner training
28:51 - Making Chinese medicine principles approachable for everyone
29:21 - The significance of internalized knowledge and somatic learning
30:19 - How daily practices, like Qigong and cooking, deepen understanding
31:23 - The enduring power of experiential, body-based knowledge
32:11 - Basic strategies for postpartum and post-surgery recovery
33:43 - Nourishing soups, broths, and meal textures for healing
34:40 - The importance of warmth and herbal remedies in recovery
36:35 - Using footbaths and moxibustion to support healing
37:05 - The role of intuition in clinical decision-making
38:02 - Sensory perception and gentle, personalized treatment
39:02 - The power of presence, listening, and subtle cues
40:53 - Blending intuition with training in effective practice
41:07 - The impact of empathy, gentleness, and somatic awareness
42:58 - Cultivating kindness and integrating Western and Chinese approaches
43:45 - The future of culinary medicine in Chinese medical education
44:39 - Food as a joyful, integral part of health routines
45:19 - Resources for practitioners and the importance of ongoing learning

Resources & Links:
Pearl Natural Health
Book: Nutritional Healing with Chinese Medicine
Dr. David Eisenberg - Harvard
Healthy Kitchens, Healthy Lives
Pearl Natural Health Website
Email: [email protected]

Note: This episode underscores that healthful eating is as much about mindfulness, enjoyment, and intuition as it is about science. Implementing seasonal foods and cooking practices can foster a deeper connection to your body, nature, and well-being.

Angelique and Toby discuss the role of acupuncture and Chinese medicine in fertility treatment, end-of-life rituals and integrating cultural practices. They present clinical case studies on autoimmune eye conditions, herpes, and more. Finally they explore channel theory including divergent and sinew channel treatment strategies.

Toby just released a new book! https://a.co/d/04KI93FR
This Substack has excerpts from the book: https://substack.com/@tobydaly

Stephanie's email for signed copies: [email protected]

Key Insights:
The importance of addressing the whole "garden" in fertility treatments, focusing on filling gaps to promote natural conception
How acupuncture can assist with end-of-life transition
The application of divergent channel therapy for complex or terminal cases, exemplified by patient cases
The interconnectedness of emotional, physical, and spiritual health in Chinese medicine practice

Resources & Links:
Tracing Our Lineage - Book https://a.co/d/04KI93FR
Jeffrey Yuen - Renowned Chinese Medicine Practitioner

Consider watching this one on youtube. The visuals may help anchor your understanding of the historical physicians and formulas that Dr. Tsaur mentions.

In this episode we explore the journey of Allen Tsaur, from childhood in Taiwan to becoming a Chinese medicine translator and practitioner. We discuss the value of classical texts, translation challenges, and how deep study informs clinical practice.

In this episode:
Allen Tsaur's background and how he transitioned from engineering to Chinese medicine
The significance of classical texts like Zhang Jinyue and Wu Jutong's works
Challenges in translating ancient Chinese medical texts: terminology, context, and clinical application
The importance of commentary and historical critique in understanding formulas
Allen's approach to integrating classical concepts like Yin-Yang, Qi, and the six burners into modern practice
Insights on the holistic view of disease as branches and roots of constitution
The influence of major figures like Ye Tianshi, Zhu Danxi, and Wu Youke on current theories
Practical advice for students and practitioners on engaging with ancient texts and commentaries

Timestamps:

00:00 - Introduction to Allen Tsaur's background and career shift

02:17 - Allen's early engagement with classical poetry and the Art of War

03:39 - Transition from engineering to Chinese medicine and first encounters with Chinese medical practice

04:59 - Experiences with acupuncture and curiosity about Chinese medicine

06:05 - The bone marrow drive and cultural differences in treatment perception

07:33 - Allen's deep dive into Chinese texts and translation work

09:40 - Studying the 8 Principles and origins of diagnostic frameworks

11:49 - Starting translation: from naive attempts to collaboration with Michael Brown

13:37 - The challenges of terminology and context in translation

15:49 - Allen's systematic approach and the importance of glossaries

18:53 - Collaborations with Michael Brown and foundational texts for clinical practice

22:08 - Criticism of formula modifications and historical influences

26:23 - The significance of the six conformations and the concept of the three burners from Wu Youke

28:35 - Wu Youke's influence on understanding pandemics and epidemics

32:14 - Allen's insights on formulas for heat and cold in different contexts

38:14 - The role of formulas like Huo Xiang Zheng Qi San during epidemics

43:13 - Modifications and intuitive adjustments in formula practice

44:51 - The humility and motivation behind Allen’s translation work

54:41 - Reflections on the humility and altruism of Chinese medicine masters

67:33 - The role of the Root and Branch philosophy in Chinese medicine and the critique of over-reliance on formulas

73:15 - Who is the Yoda of Chinese medicine? Insights into the foundational figures like the Huangdi Neijing author

75:15 - The importance of commentators over centuries in shaping Chinese medicine's viability

Resources & Links:
Zhang Jingyue https://allentsaur.com/publications
Wu Jutong's Systematic Differentiation of Warm Diseases https://allentsaur.com/publications
The Nei Jing - The Yellow Emperor's Classic
Michael Brown - Translator & Collaborator
Connect with Allen Tsaur: https://allentsaur.com/

Note: For those interested in deepening their understanding, Allen emphasizes engaging with footnotes, commentaries, and classical texts alongside modern interpretations for a comprehensive grasp of Chinese medicine.

In this episode, Angelique and Toby share the real-world challenges of managing a rapidly growing practice, including scheduling, client communication, and insurance strategies. The discussion provides practical tips for handling peaks and valleys in client volume while maintaining quality care and clinical efficiency.

Key topics:
Navigating peaks: how to allocate slots for emergent and ongoing care
Strategies for managing scheduling and cancellations
Transitioning to all-cash practices and insurance considerations
Building a reliable referral and network system
Recognizing practice peak signs and when to expand staffing

Timestamps:
00:00 - Introduction: managing rapid practice growth

00:40 - Approaching full booking and scheduling challenges

01:44 - Communicating capacity limits with patients

02:41 - Recognizing whether current growth is a peak or a new normal

03:24 - The importance of leaving buffer slots for emergencies

03:54 - Strategies to control new patient intake and manage demand

04:21 - Transitioning to cash-only or insurance models and leveraging staff

05:18 - Building a referral network for urgent patient needs

05:44 - Tips for delaying new patient appointments to create breathing room

06:03 - Preparing for potential patient demands for specific treatments

06:33 - When to consider going all cash and expanding staff

07:07 - Identifying when your practice has passed the peak

07:40 - Long-term patterns of practice growth and patient re-engagement

08:13 - The impact of delivering excellent results on word-of-mouth

09:26 - Managing cancellations and patient respect for your time

10:09 - Using waitlist systems effectively

11:36 - The value of human office management vs AI automation

12:00 - Staying calm during peaks and valleys in practice volume

12:30 - The likelihood of peaks becoming the new normal

13:12 - Valuing health services and patient willingness to pay

13:41 - Comparing costs and value of biomedical treatments vs alternative care

14:10 - Closing thoughts: riding out growth cycles together

Resources & Links:
Jane Scheduling Software — for appointment management and waitlist features

Join Angelique and Toby as they explore an innovative plan to reinvent Chinese medicine education, addressing its financial, operational, and societal challenges. Their discussion details a comprehensive approach to creating a sustainable, accessible, and modern Chinese medical school from the ground up, leveraging AI, new funding models, and flexible infrastructure.

Key Topics
The critical financial issues facing current Chinese medicine schools and the need for endowment-based models
How AI and software can revolutionize administration, reducing costs and increasing efficiency
The importance of crowdfunding and endowments from successful practitioners and engaged patients
Developing a flexible, pop-up classroom and clinical model using community spaces and partnerships
A proposed three-year, online-intensive curriculum that prepares students for licensing exams
Creating a nonprofit institution with a durable endowment for institutional longevity
The potential societal benefits: shifting from repetitive and unchallenging administrative tasks to fulfilling clinical work
The strategic development timeline: from concept to funded reality

Resources & Links

Connect with Kaysie Lingo about Chicago clinic space: https://anatomyandalchemy.com/about/

Ryan Hoffer Substack — Thought leader on Chinese medicine education and innovation

This episode offers a bold vision for the future of Chinese medicine education, emphasizing innovation in funding, technology, and flexible learning models to ensure sustainability and accessibility.

Timestamps
00:00 - Introducing the office hours digital bulletin board and upcoming panel discussion

07:00 - Announcing a new Chicago office space available for Chinese medicine practitioners

09:00 - Concerns about the future of Chinese medicine education and the role of funding

11:00 - The destructive financial model of current Chinese medicine schools and the need for reform

12:30 - Conceptualizing a new endowment-funded, nonprofit Chinese medicine institution

15:00 - Automating school administration with AI to drastically cut costs

16:50 - Replacing mundane admin tasks with AI to free up practitioners for clinical work

17:46 - Addressing concerns about AI replacing human roles and emphasizing the value of fulfilling work

19:00 - Developing a flexible, pop-up clinical and classroom model for future growth

21:10 - Utilizing spaces like VRBO for low-cost, temporary classroom and clinic setups

23:40 - The vision for a three-year, online-heavy Chinese medicine program with licensure pathways

27:00 - Naming ideas and curriculum structure—aiming for a broad, accessible educational model

30:01 - Committing to documenting this transformative process and inviting early collaborations