Oh My Word with Katie

In this episode, I'm talking with author Jonathan Rogers about his novel The Charlatan's Boy — a hilarious, heartbreaking story about a boy named Grady who doesn't know where he came from and works as a sidekick to a con artist.

Although The Charlatan's Boy is technically classified as middle-grade fiction, there's plenty here for adults. Jonathan and I talk about Southern storytelling, Mark Twain, identity, honesty, and much more.

We also talk about why Grady is physically ugly — and why Jonathan doesn't give him the easy ending of discovering that he's actually handsome. Instead, Grady discovers something much more important: He doesn't have to be beautiful to be loved.

Finally, Jonathan shares how Christian themes emerged naturally in the story and why he was interested in what the gospel looks like in a world where moral clarity isn't easy to find.

PS: Mark your calendars for my LIVE book-club discussion of The Charlatan's Boy with Jonathan at 7 p.m. Thursday, October 29, on Instagram @kathleen139! 

In this episode, I'm talking with author Jonathan Rogers about The Charlatan's Boy, Jonathan's middle-grade novel about identity, honesty, belonging, and learning to live a new way.

Jonathan is also the author of the Wilderking trilogy, a spiritual biography of Flannery O'Connor, and more. He's also the host of The Habit, a podcast and online community for writers.

We talk about Jonathan's love of Southern vernacular storytelling and the influence of writers like Mark Twain and Flannery O'Connor. Jonathan explains why he wanted The Charlatan's Boy to sound more like the way people tell stories than the way people traditionally write them.

At the heart of the novel is Grady, a boy who doesn't know where he came from. Floyd, the charlatan Grady travels with, has lied to him about his identity for years.  

We also talk about Grady's physical ugliness — which Floyd takes advantage of as he dresses Grady up like a "feechie," a supposedly wild swamp person, for their traveling act. Jonathan chose not to make Grady secretly handsome. Instead, Grady learns that being "unattractive" doesn't make him unlovable — and that he doesn't have to become someone else in order to be worthy of love.

Finally, we explore the Christian themes woven throughout the novel. Jonathan explains why he wasn't trying to write conventional "Christian fiction." We talk about forgiveness, repentance, honesty, spiritual metaphors, and the ways the gospel can emerge through a story.

The Charlatan's Boy and Grady's Story

• Why Grady doesn't know where he came from
• Floyd's lies about Grady's identity
• The feechie shows
• The collapse of the "feechie trade"
• Why identity is such a central theme in the novel

Southern Storytelling and Literary Influences

• Jonathan's love of Southern vernacular storytelling
• Mark Twain's influence
• Huckleberry Finn and Tom Sawyer
• Flannery O'Connor
• Southwest humorists
• Literary vs. vernacular storytelling
• Writing in a character's authentic voice

Middle-Grade Fiction for Adults

• Why Jonathan writes middle-grade fiction
• Why adults can enjoy The Charlatan's Boy
• Morally complex children's fiction
• Addressing serious questions without talking down to young readers

Identity, Honesty, and Being Loved

• Grady's struggle to understand who he is
• What happens when someone lies to you about your identity
• Learning to be honest when you've never experienced honesty
• Grady's physical ugliness
• Why Grady doesn't need to become handsome
• The difference between beautiful and lovable

Christian Themes in The Charlatan's Boy

• Why the gospel doesn't always look like a conversion scene
• Christian fiction and moral complexity
• Flannery O'Connor's influence on Jonathan's thinking
• Forgiveness and repentance
• Honesty about who we are
• The gospel in a broken world
• Spiritual metaphors in fiction

Writing and the Real World

• How the visible world can point toward invisible realities
• "Reading" the world as a writer
• How literary influences shape our writing

• The Charlatan's Boy — Jonathan Rogers
• The Wilderking Trilogy — Jonathan Rogers
• The Hobbit — J.R.R. Tolkien
• The Outsiders — S.E. Hinton
• Peter and Wendy — J.M. Barrie
• The Adventures of Tom Sawyer — Mark Twain
• The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn — Mark Twain
• Lonesome Dove — Larry McMurtry
• Flannery O'Connor

• Adults who love excellent fiction written by Christians
• Parents looking for thoughtful books to read with their kids
• Readers interested in middle-grade and YA fiction
• Fans of Jonathan Rogers and the Wilderking books
• Readers who love Mark Twain and Southern storytelling
• Writers interested in voice, dialect, and storytelling
• Christians interested in how the gospel can emerge through fiction
• Readers interested in Flannery O'Connor and Christian literature
• Anyone wrestling with questions of identity, honesty, forgiveness, or belonging
• Anyone who enjoys funny stories that turn out to have deeper things to say

• Would you consider leaving a rating and review on Apple Podcasts? Reviews help more readers discover thoughtful Christian conversations about books, faith, and the stories that shape us.
• Follow @ohmywordpod on Facebook and Instagram for episode updates, literary discussions, and book recommendations.

What false stories have you believed about who you are, and what might it look like to become more honest about your identity?

I'm back for Part 2 of my conversation with author and illustrator Jennifer Trafton, and this time we're diving into George MacDonald's beautiful short fairy tale The Golden Key. 

C.S. Lewis called George MacDonald his "master" and said that reading MacDonald's Phantastes "baptized" his imagination. Jennifer has studied MacDonald for years, including writing both her undergraduate and master's theses about him.

Together, Jennifer and I explore why The Golden Key is so rewarding to read and think about; why MacDonald resisted reducing fairy tales to simple allegories; and how the story's imagery can awaken deeper thoughts about faith, hope, and God's kingdom.

We also talk about the idea that imagination and faith aren't enemies. In fact, Jennifer explains how MacDonald understood imagination as a kind of spiritual seeing that awakens our desire for the beautiful, good, and true.

If you've ever wondered why stories, fairy tales, metaphors, and images matter to Christian faith, I think you'll love this conversation.

PS: Be sure to catch Jennifer and me as we go LIVE from my personal Instagram (@kathleen139) Thursday, September 24, at 7 p.m. central, to talk with YOU about Jennifer's book If Only We Could See, which we discussed in Part 1. 

In Part 2 of my conversation with Jennifer Trafton, we're turning from Lilias Trotter to one of the writers who influenced her: Scottish author and minister George MacDonald.

Jennifer's interest in MacDonald goes back to college, when she first encountered his work through C.S. Lewis. Lewis considered MacDonald his "master," featured him as a character in The Great Divorce, and famously said that reading MacDonald's Phantastes had "baptized" his imagination and played an important role in his journey toward faith.

Jennifer eventually wrote her undergraduate thesis on MacDonald's theology of imagination and later studied the 19th-century context in which he lived and wrote — a fascinating period that included the beginnings of modern children's literature and overlapping worlds of science, art, and theology.

Jennifer explains that The Golden Key is considered one of MacDonald's masterpieces — and that it is also a particularly pure example of what MacDonald meant by a fairy tale. Unlike a straightforward allegory, the story isn't designed to be reduced to one specific meaning. MacDonald believed fairy tales should be more like a wind chime: They stir resonances, memories, ideas, and possibilities in the reader. He wasn't trying to teach readers something, but rather awaken something in them.

The story follows two children, Mossy and Tangle, as they journey toward the mysterious place where a golden key will fit. Along the way, they encounter strange characters, mysterious images, shadows that seem more substantial than normal, and a deep longing for the place those shadows come from.

We explore how that shadow imagery resonates with the Bible, particularly the idea that earthly things can be "shadows" of what is to come. We discuss Hebrews, the hope of the new heavens and new earth, Plato's Allegory of the Cave, and the ways The Golden Key anticipates ideas that C.S. Lewis would later explore in The Great Divorce.

Jennifer also shares how her understanding of The Golden Key has changed as she has gotten older. As a single woman, she was puzzled by Mossy and Tangle having such different journeys. Now that Jennifer is married, she sees the beauty of walking through difficult seasons hand in hand with another person — and the reality that sometimes we have to walk "alone" for a while.

The biggest question of the episode is this: What is the golden key?

Jennifer cautions against reducing it to one simple allegorical meaning (which I tried to do at first!), but she points to MacDonald's other writings for a clue. And that leads to one of my favorite parts of our conversation: the relationship between imagination and Christian faith.

I think many Christians — especially those of us who tend to think analytically — can treat imagination and faith as opposites. But Jennifer and I discuss why that doesn't make sense. The Bible itself is full of stories, metaphors, images, and parables (Mark 4:34), because human beings need imaginative language to grasp truths that are bigger than our intellects.

And as Jennifer points out, hope itself requires imagination. To hope is to look toward something we cannot yet see and imagine a reality that is not yet here (Hebrews 11:1).

We close by talking about why George MacDonald's fairy tales have had such a lasting influence on Christian literature, including writers such as C.S. Lewis, J.R.R. Tolkien, and Madeleine L'Engle — and why children's literature and fairy tales can speak profound truths to adults, too.

George MacDonald and the Christian Imagination

• Why Jennifer Trafton has studied George MacDonald for decades
• Why C.S. Lewis called MacDonald his "master"
• MacDonald's influence on Christian writers

Understanding The Golden Key

• Fairy tales vs. straightforward allegory
• Why MacDonald didn't want to give readers a single message
• The story's mysterious symbols and images
• Mossy, Tangle, and their very different journeys

Shadows, Scripture, and the World to Come

• The mysterious "Shadowlands" in The Golden Key
• Biblical images of shadows and things to come
• Hebrews and the new heavens and new earth
• Plato's Allegory of the Cave
• Connections to C.S. Lewis' The Great Divorce
• Longing for the coming reality

The Golden Key and Imagination

• What might the golden key represent?
• Imagination as a form of spiritual seeing
• How imagination awakens desire
• Longing for what is beautiful, good, and true
• How stories can lead us toward God

Why Imagination Matters to Faith

• Why imagination and faith aren't opposites
• Why scripture uses stories, metaphors, images, and parables
• Why hope requires imagination
• How fairy tales can awaken spiritual longing
• Why Christian literature can shape our understanding of God

• The Golden Key — George MacDonald
• Phantastes — George MacDonald
• The Princess and the Goblin — George MacDonald
• The Princess and Curdie — George MacDonald
• The Light Princess — George MacDonald
• A Seaboard Parish — George MacDonald
• Unspoken Sermons — George MacDonald
• The Great Divorce — C.S. Lewis
• Surprised by Joy — C.S. Lewis
• Alice's Adventures in Wonderland — Lewis Carroll

Jennifer recommends a graphic novel edition of The Golden Key published by Rabbit Room Press. This edition preserves the original story while adding illustrations by Stephen Hesselman, making it an especially appealing option for visual readers.

• Readers interested in George MacDonald
• Fans of C.S. Lewis and J.R.R. Tolkien
• Christians interested in faith and imagination
• Readers interested in fantasy and fairy tales
• Fans of classic literature
• Adults who enjoy children's literature and fairy tales
• Writers and storytellers
• Christians who want to understand the role of imagination in faith
• Anyone wrestling with longing, hope, and things we cannot yet see

• Would you consider leaving a rating and review on Apple Podcasts? Reviews help more readers discover thoughtful Christian conversations about books, faith, and the stories that shape us.
• Follow @ohmywordpod on Facebook and Instagram for episode updates, literary discussions, and book recommendations.
• Be sure to catch Jennifer and me as we go LIVE from my personal Instagram (@kathleen139) Thursday, September 24, at 7 p.m. central, to talk with YOU about Jennifer's book If Only We Could See, which we discussed in Part 1. 

What story, image, or work of art has awakened a longing in you for something beautiful, good, and true — and where might that longing be pointing you?

•  Who Lilias Trotter was 
•  Her life as a Victorian-era artist and missionary 
•  Why she turned down a promising artistic career 
•  Her years serving working women in London 
•  How she eventually followed God's call to Algeria 

•  What Lily teaches us about Christian calling 
•  Why vocation doesn't always fit neatly into a box 
•  The danger of feeling like we have to choose one path forever 
•  Staying "nimble" and responsive to the Holy Spirit 
•  How Lily continued to be an artist on the mission field

•  Why seeing clearly was so important to Lily
•  What John Ruskin taught her about art and observation 
•  How careful observation can become a form of worship 
•  Seeing real people, not our preconceived ideas about them 
•  How imagination can lead to love, prayer, and action 

•  How Lily's artistic training shaped her missionary work 
•  Encountering people with humility and receptiveness 
•  Lily's love for the Muslim people  
•  Her relational approach to sharing the gospel 
•  What Christians today can learn from her example 

•  What Lily's life has to say about empathy 
•  Why Christians need to learn to truly see one another 
•  Moving beyond fear and preconceived ideas 
•  Loving people before engaging in political arguments 
•  What it might look like to show — not merely tell — people that Jesus loves them 

•  Lily's sacrifices 
•  What she gave up without knowing what God would do 
•  How God allowed her art to flourish in unexpected ways 
•  How she became a spiritual mother to many 
•  Trusting God with the things we lay down 

• If Only We Could See: Reimagining Creativity, Compassion, and Calling Through the Extraordinary Life of Lilias Trotter — Jennifer Trafton 
• Many Beautiful Things: The Life and Vision of Lilias Trotter — documentary directed by Laura Waters Hinson 
• A Passion for the Impossible: The Life of Lilias Trotter — Miriam Huffman Rockness 

• Christians wrestling with questions of calling or vocation 
• Artists and other creatives trying to follow God with their gifts 
• Women whose lives don't fit traditional expectations 
• Readers interested in Christian / missionary biographies 
• Christians interested in missions and Christian-Muslim relationships 
• Anyone who feels like they don't fit neatly into a box 
• Readers interested in Lilias Trotter, Victorian history, art, faith, and creativity 
• Anyone who wants to learn to see people with greater compassion 

• Would you consider leaving a rating and review on Apple Podcasts? Reviews help more readers discover thoughtful Christian conversations about books, faith, and the stories that shape us. 
• Follow @ohmywordpod on Facebook and Instagram for episode updates, literary discussions, and book recommendations - including details on my LIVE book-club discussion of If Only We Could See, coming toward the end of September!

'Reader's Digest Condensed' Show Notes

Katie welcomes Dana VanderLugt back for Part 2 of their conversation to discuss one of Dana's favorite classics: Charlotte's Web.

Together they explore why E.B. White's timeless children's novel continues to speak to readers of every age; how its themes of friendship, sacrifice, grace, and the power of words point beyond themselves; and why rereading beloved childhood books can deepen both our faith and our imagination.

Along the way, they discuss memorable characters, the beauty of the changing seasons, what makes great children's literature endure, and how God shows up in one small pig's remarkable story.

Unabridged Show Notes

In Part 2 of Katie's conversation with author Dana VanderLugt, the focus shifts from Dana's own novel to one of the books that has shaped her most deeply as both a reader and a writer: E.B. White's Charlotte's Web.

Dana shares why she believes the greatest children's books are never just for children and explains how rereading Charlotte's Web throughout different stages of life has continually revealed new layers of meaning. She also discusses studying the novel during her MFA program and what aspiring writers can learn from White's craftsmanship.

Together, Katie and Dana explore the novel's unforgettable characters, from Wilbur's vulnerability to Charlotte's quiet wisdom and Templeton's selfishness. They reflect on the remarkable way the story introduces children to grief, sacrifice, and hope without talking down to them.

The conversation also highlights the power of words throughout the novel — how Charlotte's carefully chosen words literally save Wilbur's life — and the biblical connections to grace, salvation, friendship, and speaking life into others. Dana shares why the changing seasons form one of the novel's most beautiful images and explains how the story continues to point her toward God's faithfulness.

The episode concludes with Dana encouraging adults to revisit the books they loved as children, explaining why those stories often become even richer with age and reminding readers that great children's literature has something to say to every generation.

PS: If you want to go deeper with Dana, join her and Katie LIVE at 7 p.m. Thursday, August 27, on Katie's personal Instagram (@kathleen139) for a discussion of Dana's book Enemies in the Orchard. (Also check out the previous episode of the podcast for Katie's spoiler-free interview with Dana about the book.)

In This Episode

Why Charlotte's Web still matters

•  Why great children's books are written for adults too 
•  Returning to beloved stories at different stages of life 
•  What E.B. White teaches writers 

Friendship, sacrifice, and grace

•  Charlotte's extraordinary gift to Wilbur 
•  Receiving grace we can't earn 
•  Why Templeton remains such a memorable character 

The power of words

•  How words shape identity 
•  Speaking life into others 
•  Proverbs and "apples of gold" 

Seasons and storytelling

•  The beauty of life's changing seasons 
•  Why children need stories that tell the truth 
•  Finding hope without avoiding grief 

Why adults should reread children's classics

•  Discovering what you missed as a child 
•  Reading with fresh eyes 
•  Books that grow along with us 

Books Mentioned

• Charlotte's Web — E.B. White 
• Enemies in the Orchard — Dana VanderLugt 
• The Annotated Charlotte's Web
• Why You Should Read Children's Books, Even Though You Are So Old and Wise — Katherine Rundell 
• Impossible Creatures — Katherine Rundell 

Who This Episode Is For

•  Readers who loved Charlotte's Web as children 
•  Parents and grandparents reading aloud with kids 
•  Fans of classic children's literature 
•  Writers and storytellers 
•  Christians interested in how timeless stories reflect biblical truth 

Enjoying Oh My Word with Katie?

• Would you consider leaving a rating and review on Apple Podcasts? Reviews help more readers discover thoughtful Christian conversations about books, faith, and the stories that shape us.
• Follow @ohmywordpod on Facebook and Instagram for episode updates, literary discussions, and book recommendations.
• Tune in LIVE at 7 p.m., August 27, for Katie's next book-club discussion, featuring Dana VanderLugt! They'll be talking about Dana's novel, Enemies in the Orchard, all on Katie's personal Instagram, @kathleen139.

A Question to Reflect On

Who has spoken words over your life that helped shape who you've become — and how might God be inviting you to offer that same kind of life-giving encouragement to someone else?

'Reader's Digest Condensed' Show Notes

Katie welcomes author Dana VanderLugt to discuss Enemies in the Orchard, her moving World War II novel in verse inspired by a little-known chapter of American history.

Dana shares the true family story behind the novel, explains why she chose the unique novel-in-verse format, and explores how stories of history and faith can invite readers to wrestle with difficult questions instead of offering easy answers.

Together, Katie and Dana discuss German prisoners of war on American farms, writing for readers of all ages, the complexity of forgiveness, and why novels in verse just hit different.

PS: Dive even deeper into the book with Katie and Dana at 7 p.m. Thursday, August 27, as they go live on Instagram! Follow @kathleen139 on Instagram to watch.

Unabridged Show Notes

Katie sits down with author Dana VanderLugt to discuss Enemies in the Orchard, a World War II novel in verse inspired by the true story of German prisoners of war who worked on her grandfather's Michigan apple orchard.

Dana explains how growing up in a family of storytellers shaped her love of narrative and why she immediately knew this hidden historical story belonged in the novel-in-verse format. She shares what makes verse fiction so emotionally powerful and why it often reaches readers who think they don't enjoy poetry.

The conversation explores one of WWII's lesser-known chapters: thousands of German POWs who were brought to the United States to help relieve wartime labor shortages. Dana discusses the extensive research behind the novel, how much of her own family's story is factual, and the challenge of balancing historical accuracy with compelling fiction.

Katie and Dana also examine the book's deeper themes of forgiveness, prejudice, doubt, and loving those we consider our enemies. They discuss writing honest characters whose faith includes questions and wrestling, and why meaningful stories don't always wrap everything up neatly.

The episode concludes with Dana sharing the Bible passage that most connects with the novel, recommending one of her favorite contemporary books, offering a glimpse into her next writing project, and revealing the beloved classic that will be the focus of Part 2 (coming August 20).

Don't forget to tune in LIVE at 7 p.m. August 27 as Katie and Dana lead a book-club discussion of Enemies in the Orchard on Instagram! Follow @kathleen139 on Instagram to watch.

In This Episode

The hidden history behind the novel

•  German POWs on American farms 
•  Dana's grandfather's apple orchard 
•  Researching a forgotten chapter of WWII 

Writing a novel in verse

•  Why verse tells emotional stories so effectively 
•  Learning the craft of poetry 
•  Writing for ages 9 to 99 

Faith, history, and difficult questions

•  Loving your enemies 
•  Writing characters who wrestle with doubt 
•  Why stories don't need easy answers 

Reading and writing

•  Dana's favorite novels 
•  Books she's reading now 
•  A peek at her next project 

Looking ahead

•  Preview of the classic we'll discuss in Part 2

Books Mentioned

• Enemies in the Orchard — Dana VanderLugt 
• Home of the Brave — Katherine Applegate 
• The One and Only Ivan — Katherine Applegate 
• Plainsong — Kent Haruf 
• The Unselected Journals of Emma M. Lion — Beth Brower 

Who This Episode Is For

•  Historical fiction readers 
•  Fans of WWII stories 
•  Parents and teachers looking for meaningful books 
•  Readers interested in Christian storytelling 
•  Anyone who enjoys thoughtful conversations about faith, literature, and history 

Enjoying Oh My Word with Katie?

• Would you consider leaving a rating and review on Apple Podcasts? Reviews help more readers discover thoughtful Christian conversations about books, faith, and the stories that shape us.
• Follow @ohmywordpod on Facebook and Instagram for episode updates, book recommendations, and literary conversations.
• Tune in LIVE at 7 p.m. August 27 for Katie and Dana's book-club discussion of Enemies in the Orchard, on Instagram @kathleen139.

A Question to Reflect On

Whom might God be calling you to see differently — even someone you've been taught to think of as "the enemy"?

'Reader's Digest Condensed' Show Notes

Katie welcomes Doug McKelvey back for Part 2 of their conversation to discuss one of their favorite books of all time: The Lord of the Rings.

Together they explore why Tolkien's masterpiece has endured for generations, how it shaped Doug's imagination long before he understood its spiritual significance, and why stories of beauty, courage, sacrifice, and home awaken longings that ultimately point us to Christ.

Along the way, they discuss Tolkien's world-building, stewardship, the surprising importance of hobbits, Tolkien versus C.S. Lewis, and why Middle-earth continues to invite readers into something deeper than fantasy.

Unabridged Show Notes

In Part 2 of Katie's conversation with Doug McKelvey, the discussion shifts from Every Moment Holy to another work that has profoundly shaped Doug's life: J.R.R. Tolkien's The Lord of the Rings.

Doug shares how he first encountered Middle-earth as a teenager and why Tolkien's painstaking craftsmanship continues to influence his own writing decades later. Together, he and Katie discuss Tolkien's extraordinary world-building, the importance of "loving a world into being," and what faithful stewardship looks like for writers and artists.

The conversation explores the differences between Tolkien and C.S. Lewis, particularly Tolkien's rejection of straightforward allegory in favor of stories that awaken the imagination and invite readers to discover truth for themselves.

Katie and Doug also reflect on the quiet heroism of the hobbits, the recurring biblical theme of God using the weak to accomplish great things, and why The Lord of the Rings resonates so deeply with Christians without functioning as a direct allegory.

Near the end of the episode, Doug shares one of the most moving insights of the conversation: that great stories awaken longings which are ultimately fulfilled not by fantasy itself, but by Christ. Together Katie and Doug reflect on how Middle-earth points beyond itself to the beauty, wonder, and eternal joy found in God's coming Kingdom.

In This Episode

Discovering Middle-earth

•  Doug's first encounter with Tolkien 
•  Why The Lord of the Rings captured his imagination 
•  The richness of Tolkien's world-building 

Tolkien and the Christian Imagination

•  Why Tolkien rejected allegory 
•  Comparing Tolkien and C.S. Lewis 
•  Stories that awaken rather than explain 

Stewardship and Creativity

•  Loving a story into being 
•  What Tolkien taught Doug about faithful craftsmanship 
•  Measuring success by faithfulness instead of popularity 

The Hobbits and God's Kingdom

•  Why ordinary people become the heroes 
•  The biblical theme of weakness overcoming strength 
•  Frodo, Sam, and reluctant obedience 

Why The Lord of the Rings Still Matters

•  Stories that awaken eternal longing 
•  Beauty, wonder, and imagination 
•  How Tolkien points readers toward Christ 

Books & Podcasts Mentioned

• The Lord of the Rings — J.R.R. Tolkien 
• The Hobbit — J.R.R. Tolkien 
• The Silmarillion — J.R.R. Tolkien 
• The Chronicles of Narnia — C.S. Lewis 
• Every Moment Holy — Doug McKelvey 
• Theo of Golden — Allen Levi 
• The Prancing Pony Podcast — Alan Sisto and Shawn Marchese

Who This Episode Is For

•  Readers who have always wanted to tackle Tolkien 
•  Fans of fantasy literature 
•  Christians interested in beauty and imagination 
•  Writers, artists, and creatives 
•  Anyone who has wondered why The Lord of the Rings continues to resonate across generations 

Enjoying Oh My Word with Katie?

• Would you consider leaving a rating and review on Apple Podcasts? Reviews help more readers discover thoughtful Christian conversations about books, faith, and the stories that shape us.
• Follow @ohmywordpod on Facebook and Instagram for episode updates, literary discussions, and book reviews and recommendations.

A Question to Reflect On

Has a fictional story ever awakened a longing that ultimately pointed you toward something deeper — or Someone greater?

'Reader's Digest Condensed' Show Notes

Katie welcomes Every Moment Holy creator Doug McKelvey to discuss the surprising story behind one of the most beloved Christian book series of the past decade.

Doug shares how a simple prayer written to help him focus on writing fiction eventually became Every Moment Holy, why Christians from many traditions have embraced written liturgies, and how ordinary moments — whether changing diapers or repairing a water heater — can become opportunities for worship.

Together, Doug and Katie explore beauty, language, prayer, creativity, and what it means to believe that God is at work in every moment of everyday life.

Unabridged Show Notes

Katie sits down with author Doug McKelvey, creator of the bestselling Every Moment Holy series, to explore how written prayers can help Christians recognize God's presence in the ordinary moments of life.

Doug shares his journey from a non-liturgical church background to discovering the beauty of historic prayers through The Book of Common Prayer. He explains why thoughtfully written prayers aren't a replacement for spontaneous prayer but a companion to it — often giving believers words when they don't know how to pray.

The conversation traces the unexpected birth of Every Moment Holy, which began as a personal prayer during a season of creative frustration. Doug recounts how a simple conversation with Andrew Peterson quickly grew into a vision for a beautifully crafted book of liturgies covering everything from changing diapers to repairing a home.

Along the way, Katie and Doug discuss creativity, storytelling, theology, and the importance of seeing every ordinary task within God's larger story of redemption. Doug also reflects on the overwhelming success of the series, why it has resonated across denominations, and how these prayers help reorient believers toward God's kingdom in everyday life.

The episode concludes with Doug sharing the scripture that has sustained him throughout the writing process and a preview of Part 2, where he and Katie will discuss one of Doug's favorite classics.

In This Episode

Discovering liturgical prayer

•  Growing up in a non-liturgical church 
•  Encountering The Book of Common Prayer
•  Why written prayers can strengthen personal prayer 

The birth of Every Moment Holy

•  A prayer written for fiction writers 
•  Andrew Peterson's unexpected encouragement 
•  How one prayer became an international bestseller 

Finding God in ordinary life

•  Why changing diapers and doing laundry matter 
•  Seeing everyday work through the lens of eternity 
•  Reframing ordinary tasks as acts of worship 

Writing, creativity, and calling

•  Doug's unfinished science fiction novel 
•  Why artistic constraints can increase creativity 
•  Trusting God with the work He's given us 

Looking ahead

•  The new Every Moment Holy Prayer Songs
•  Preview of Part 2 of our conversation, where we'll discuss one of Doug's favorite classics

Books Mentioned

• Every Moment Holy — Doug McKelvey 
• The Book of Common Prayer

Who This Episode Is For

•  Christians seeking a richer prayer life 
•  Readers who love thoughtful Christian books 
•  Writers, artists, and other creatives 
•  Anyone who feels overwhelmed by ordinary responsibilities 
•  Fans of The Rabbit Room and Andrew Peterson 

Enjoying Oh My Word with Katie?

• Would you consider leaving a rating and review on Apple Podcasts? Reviews help more readers discover thoughtful Christian conversations about books, faith, and the stories that shape us.
• Follow @ohmywordpod on Facebook and Instagram for episode updates, book recommendations, and literary conversations.

A Question to Reflect On

What ordinary part of your daily routine might look different if you truly believed God was present in it?

'Reader's Digest Condensed' Show Notes

Katie welcomes author, teacher, and Close Reads co-host Heidi White to discuss her book The Divided Soul: Duty and Desire in Literature and in Life.

Together they explore why the tension between what we "ought" to do and what we "want" to do lies at the heart of both great literature and everyday Christian life.

Heidi shares how Anne of Green Gables shaped her moral imagination, why the parable of the prodigal son became the framework for her book, and how stories help us understand the fractured human condition after the Fall.

They discuss older-brother and younger-brother tendencies, the healing of desire, the role of joy in the Christian life, and why characters like Odysseus continue to resonate across centuries.

Unabridged Show Notes

Katie sits down with author, classical educator, therapist, and Close Reads co-host Heidi White to discuss The Divided Soul: Duty and Desire in Literature and in Life.

Heidi shares the childhood reading experience that changed her life when she discovered Anne of Green Gables during a difficult season of grief and loneliness. Together, she and Katie explore how stories shape our moral imagination and why literature often forms character more deeply than rules alone.

They discuss the central premise of The Divided Soul: that since the Fall, human beings have lived with a fracture between duty and desire. Drawing from the parable of the prodigal son, Heidi explains how both the younger brother's disordered desires and the older brother's joyless duty reveal different aspects of the same divided heart.

The conversation ranges from psychology and spiritual formation to Homer and The Odyssey, examining how great stories illuminate the struggles of real life. Heidi also shares practical signs that we may be slipping into older-brother self-righteousness, why joy matters in the Christian life, and what it means to pursue the healing of a unified soul.

Along the way, they discuss Anne Shirley, Odysseus and Penelope, Lonesome Dove, Christopher Nolan, classical education, and the enduring power of stories to help us understand ourselves and the world.

In This Episode

Reading, imagination, and formation

•  How Anne of Green Gables changed Heidi's life 
•  Literature as moral formation rather than mere entertainment 
•  Why stories often shape us more deeply than rules 

The divided soul

•  The conflict between duty and desire after the Fall 
•  The prodigal son as a framework for understanding human nature 
•  Why both younger-brother and older-brother tendencies need healing 

Duty, desire, and everyday life

•  Recognizing self-righteousness and resentment 
•  The danger of joyless duty 
•  Recovering rightly ordered desire 

The Odyssey and the harmonious soul

•  Why Odysseus serves as a powerful literary example 
•  Temptation, perseverance, and the longing for home 
•  Thoughts on modern adaptations of classic stories 

Books, stories, and the Christian imagination

•  Why great literature remains relevant 
•  Reading as a way of understanding ourselves 
•  How stories reveal spiritual realities 

Books and Authors Mentioned

• The Divided Soul - Heidi White 
• Anne of Green Gables - L.M. Montgomery 
• Little House on the Prairie - Laura Ingalls Wilder 
• The Odyssey - Homer 
• Lonesome Dove - Larry McMurtry 
• The Feast - Margaret Kennedy 

Who This Episode Is For

•  Readers who love classic literature 
•  Fans of Close Reads and literary podcasts 
•  Christians interested in spiritual formation 
•  Teachers, homeschoolers, and classical educators 
•  Anyone wrestling with duty, desire, burnout, temptation, or joy 

Enjoying Oh My Word with Katie?

• Would you consider leaving a rating and review on Apple Podcasts? Reviews help more readers discover thoughtful Christian conversations about books, faith, and the stories that shape us.
• Follow @ohmywordpod on Facebook and Instagram for episode updates and bookish content.

A Question to Reflect On

When have you felt the tension between what you "wanted" to do and what you knew you "ought" to do — and what helped bring those two desires back into alignment?

The ‘Reader’s Digest Condensed’ show notes

Katie welcomes Mississippi singer-songwriter and author Matthew Clark to discuss The Well Trilogy — a sweeping project of albums and companion essay collections inspired by the woman at the well, faithfulness in exile, and the hope of Christ’s return.

Together they explore Tolkien, creativity, grief, collaboration, The Rabbit Room, and why paying loving attention to God and the world around us may be one of the most important spiritual disciplines we’ve lost.

Unabridged show notes

Katie sits down with Mississippi-based singer-songwriter and author Matthew Clark to discuss The Well Trilogy — three albums paired with collections of reflective essays exploring healing, faithfulness, beauty, and the restoration of all things.

Matthew shares how growing up surrounded by music, visual art, and storytelling shaped his imagination, and why Tolkien became one of the earliest literary worlds that truly captured his heart.

They discuss the origins of Only the Lover Sings, the first volume in the trilogy, which emerged during a long season of grief and healing after divorce. Matthew explains how the story of the woman at the well became a spiritual “habitat” he returned to again and again — and how the trilogy gradually expanded into meditations on exile, endurance, and the return of Christ.

Katie and Matthew also explore the importance of collaboration in the creative process, the influence of communities like The Rabbit Room and the C.S. Lewis Foundation, and why personal essays and creative nonfiction can become powerful companions for people walking through suffering.

Throughout the conversation, they reflect on leisure, contemplation, beauty, and the idea that we most fully discover ourselves when we are seen and loved by God and others.

In this episode

Growing up surrounded by creativity

•  Matthew’s artistic family background 
•  Learning guitar through one hilariously surprising riff
•  Why early success matters when learning an instrument 

Tolkien, imagination, and literary influence

•  Growing up immersed in Middle Earth 
•  Tolkien’s idea of “escape” and why it matters 
•  The influence of Josef Pieper’s Only the Lover Sings

The origins of The Well Trilogy

•  How the woman at the well became central to Matthew’s spiritual journey 
•  Writing through grief, loneliness, and healing 
•  Why each album became paired with a collection of essays 

Creativity and collaboration

•  Learning to invite others into the creative process 
•  Working with essayists, editors, and visual artists 
•  The role of communities like The Rabbit Room and The Cultivating Project 

Faithfulness in exile

•  The themes behind A Tale of Two Trees
•  Psalm 137 and learning to “keep singing” 
•  Hope, despair, and the promise of restoration 

Beauty, contemplation, and paying attention

•  Recovering the true meaning of leisure 
•  “Beholding” as a spiritual practice 
•  Why art and stories matter for Christian culture-making 

Books and authors mentioned

• The Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit — J.R.R. Tolkien
• Only the Lover Sings — Josef Pieper
• Culture Making: Recovering Our Creative Calling — Andy Crouch
• Galahad and the Grail — Malcolm Guite
• King Arthur and His Knights of the Round Table — Roger Lancelyn Green

Who this episode is for

•  Readers who love contemplative Christian nonfiction 
•  Fans of Tolkien, The Rabbit Room, and faith-infused art 
•  Christians walking through grief, loss, or spiritual exhaustion 
•  Songwriters, artists, and creatives navigating calling and collaboration 
•  Anyone longing for beauty, hope, and deeper attention to God 

Enjoying Oh My Word with Katie?

• Would you consider leaving a rating and/or review on Apple Podcasts to help more people discover the show?
• Share this episode with a friend who loves books, music, or thoughtful Christian conversations.
• Follow @ohmywordpod on Facebook and Instagram for more bookish content and episode updates!

A question to reflect on:
What is a Bible story that you have "lived in" for a season (or maybe you're in it now), and how did God meet you there?

The 'Reader’s Digest Condensed' show notes

Katie welcomes historical fiction author Jamie Ogle to discuss Daughter of the Rebellion, her new novel set in the final days of the Western Roman Empire.

Together they explore the fascinating history behind the Visigoths and gladiators, the stories that shaped Jamie’s faith and imagination, and how themes of redemption, sacrifice, and the sanctity of life emerged unexpectedly while writing the book.

Unabridged show notes

Katie sits down with award-winning author Jamie Ogle to talk about her newest novel, Daughter of the Rebellion — an epic story of Visigoth captives, female gladiators, faith, and redemption in fourth-century Rome.

Jamie shares how growing up with missionary biographies, family storytelling, and classics like Little House on the Prairie sparked both her love of history and her desire to tell meaningful stories.

They discuss her unexpected journey from wanting to become a missionary to discovering that God had called her to write stories instead — stories that explore the faith, sacrifice, and perseverance of the early church.

Jamie also dives into the real history behind Daughter of the Rebellion, including the Visigoths’ conflict with Rome, the surprising realities of gladiator culture, and the fascinating historical figure woven into the novel.

Throughout the conversation, they explore how God renewed Jamie’s joy in writing, why themes of human dignity emerged naturally in the story, and how historical fiction can illuminate timeless truths about faith and courage.

In this episode

A childhood shaped by stories

•  Learning to love history through real people’s experiences 

From missionary dreams to writing novels

•  Why Jamie originally wanted to become a missionary 
•  Discovering that storytelling was at the heart of her calling 

Writing in the Roman Empire

•  How researching St. Valentine inspired Jamie’s first novel 
•  Why the early church and late Roman Empire fascinate her 

The world of Daughter of the Rebellion

•  The real history behind the Visigoths and Alaric 
•  Female gladiators and the surprising realities of gladiator combat 
•  Creating Adel, Felix, and the historical figure Telemachus (don't Google him till you've read the book!)

Faith, joy, and the writing process

•  How God renewed Jamie’s joy in writing after burnout 
•  Discovering a story’s deeper meaning after the writing process unfolds 

Books mentioned

• Ben-Hur — Lew Wallace 
• The Hobbit — J.R.R. Tolkien 
• Little House on the Prairie — Laura Ingalls Wilder 
• Belle of Chatham — Laura Frantz 
• The Hiding Place — Corrie ten Boom 
• The Hobbit — J.R.R. Tolkien

Who this episode is for

•  Readers who love Christian historical fiction 
•  Fans of ancient Rome, gladiators, and church history 
•  Writers navigating calling, creativity, and burnout 
•  Christians interested in stories of courage, sacrifice, and redemption 

Enjoying Oh My Word with Katie?

• Would you consider leaving a rating and/or review on Apple Podcasts to help more people discover the show?
• Share this episode with a friend who loves books, history, or thoughtful Christian conversations.
• Follow @ohmywordpod on Facebook and Instagram for more bookish content and episode updates!

A question to reflect on: What stories — whether from history, literature, or your own life — have most shaped your faith?