Open Mike Podcast

In a nation where up to 10% of incarcerated people may be wrongfully convicted, how do you determine who's innocent and who's guilty? Dr. Burton Bentley is an emergency medicine physician who helmed a company called Elite Medical Experts. Its mission is to provide expert medical opinions in complex litigation in the hopes of avoiding such miscarriages of justice.

This fascinating installment of Open Mike examines the nuanced, sometimes convoluted systems that necessitate third-party intervention in order to provide a fair verdict. Casting a spotlight on a captivating discussion between a brilliant legal mind and a brilliant medical mind, this episode is truly a must-listen!

Show Notes

[0:05] Introducing today's guest, Dr. Burton Bentley

[0:55] Dr. Bentley, you're at the University of Arizona right now, is that true?

[1:18] What possessed you to help innocent people get out of prison?

[1:35] Dr. Bentley's background

[3:17] Your company has helped provide experts for indigent defendants, correct?

[4:18] Can you provide an example of stepping into a case where a defendant didn't have an expert and you were able to have someone step in and lighten the jury to good effect?

[8:51] So, this is a man who's already convicted, probably life imprisonment, or a lengthy sentence?

[10:57] I assume his attorneys in Ohio will be filing a motion to relief from judgment, using your affidavit you were able to procure from a forensic pathologist to show there's no evidence, asking the judge for a new trial?

[12:06] The expert witnesses are so important — in Michigan, the Supreme Court recently passed a law stating these types of criminal cases, if the prosecution is bringing expert witnesses against the defendant, the defense must provide expert witness testimony.

[13:19] How crazy is it to hear that defense attorneys try to defend someone without an expert? What's your take on that?

[15:26] The presumption in child abuse is that it's inflicted, because the child couldn't have inflicted it on themselves, and by the time it reaches a legal construct, it's because someone has informed Child Protective Services or law enforcement

[18:42] The jury has to hear the other side, even in exceptional circumstances, so they can determine who is telling the truth

[20:40] Dr. Bentley provides an example of a baby with multiple, sustained head injuries; the assumption is child abuse, but the family has video evidence of the baby constantly hitting their head against their crib

[24:48] How does a juror determine which expert is telling the truth?

[26:01] One of the telltale signs of legitimacy is if an expert is making a living off their expertise, if they're an "advertising expert"

[28:27] Experts are being paid thousands of dollars to provide expert testimony! Leaving aside the money, how do you tell who's telling the truth?

[30:55] A lot of credibility goes to the character of the expert or physician and how "likeable" they are

[33:14] You have knowledge about a specific type of expert, a child abuse pediatric expert, can you explain what those credentials are?

[36:19] How does that expert have time to treat patients as well? What kind of background does a child pediatric expert have?

[38:14] Recent studies show at least 10% of people in prison could be innocent

[39:25] Thanks for watching and listening to this episode of Open Mike!

Jake Halpern is a prolific journalist, storyteller, and Pulitzer Prize-winning author. Ned Timmons is a former FBI agent who spearheaded investigations in the 1980s that led to the indictments of the world's most dangerous drug smugglers. Together, they've collaborated on Deep Cover, a podcast detailing one of Ned's undercover missions that unwittingly led to the U.S.'s invasion of Panama.

In this compelling episode of Open Mike, Jake and Ned discuss the creative journey they underwent during production of Deep Cover, insights they've gleaned from each other along the way, and reasons that undercover assignments of this magnitude could never happen in the present day. Jake also reflects on ways his 2018 Pulitzer Prize has affected his life and career.

Show Notes

[0:08] Introducing today's first guest, Jake Halpern

[1:41] Jake's background and epic, fantasy series Dormia

[3:16] In addition to writing for dozens of publications, you teach at Morse University (no relation). How do you like being a professor?

[4:33] You won the Pulitzer Prize in 2018 — what was that like?

[7:34] When you say you wrote a graphic narrative, a "true comic" about a refugee family's immigration experience… is it funny?

[9:09] What is the book called?

[10:10] Is it a strip?

[13:31] Is winning a Pulitzer like winning an Academy Award? Since then, how has your career changed?

[15:29] Your podcast Deep Cover with Ned Timmons is amazing. It hasn't been out very long, but you have over two thousand five-star reviews. Do you know how many downloads you have?

[16:35] Ned's background, time as an FBI agent, involvement in the overthrowing of Panamanian dictator Manuel Noriega

[18:29] How did you learn about Ned and what made you decide to collaborate on this podcast?

[23:34] How long did Deep Cover take to investigate and record?

[24:36] How many episodes is it?

[25:08] Introducing Ned Timmons! Welcome back Ned.  How'd it feel to hear us talking about you for the last twenty minutes? 

[25:42] Ned, how was the experience working with Jake for the last year-and-a-half?

[28:33] Ned, when you were telling these stories, part of the shock factor is that you were a one-man operation, doing some amazing, dangerous work, making life-or-death decisions without supervision.

[32:59] Why do you think this story is resonating with millions of people, right now?

[34:46] Ned, what is it about you that kept you from being scared and paranoid, that allowed you to do this?

[37:35] Jake, why do you think there are millions of downloads, what is resonating with people?

[38:00] With COVID-19 and a divisive political climate, this story has mass nostalgic and escapist appeal

[40:03] Ned, what is it about Jake's story-telling that is so special? What did you learn from him?

[44:57] Ned's ex-wife witnessed him bringing burdens of work home with him; their marriage story is the most powerful element of the narrative

[46:01] Jake, you also have a movie called Secrets of the Temple coming out; when is that being released?

[47:43] Thank you for watching this episode of the Open Mike podcast!

Devin Gardner was the starting quarterback for the University of Michigan from 2012 to 2014. He has since played for both the New England Patriots and Pittsburgh Steelers before leaving the NFL. He now works as a commentator for Fox Sports and runs the Young Go-Getters which works to develop aspiring quarterbacks with a dream to go far.

In this episode of the Open Mike Podcast, Devin goes through the highlights of his football career and explains the choices he made along the way. They discuss the recent cancellation of Big Ten Football and how it will affect the players as well.

Show Notes

[0:11] Introducing today's guest, Devin Gardner

[1:43] Devin's background

[4:17] How did being told your GPA wasn't good enough effect you?

[5:47] How did you end up at University of Detroit Jesuit High School anyways?

[7:40] You were the best dual-threat quarterback in the world, how did you deal with that pressure?

[13:40] How were you recruited to play for U of M?

[14:49] Did anyone ever offer you off-the-books incentives to join their team?

[15:33] What is your take on paying college athletes?

[17:44] Why did you switch jersey numbers?

[20:09] Was that the year that you got off the bench?

[21:35] What was your first thought when Denard Robinson hurt his elbow?

[28:08] Did you play the next game as Quarterback?

[29:35] Did they not want to pull you from receiver?

[33:30] Practicing at Minnesota's Stadium in the freezing cold and support from Denard Robinson

[36:47] How did it feel to throw your first touchdown pass in that game?

[37:40] When did you become number 98? Why?

[39:50] What did you wear as a professional player?

[40:18] Did you get a degree in social work?

[40:43] What is Young Go-Getters?

[44:26] What is your goal for the organization?

[47:00] Are you making money from this?

[47:15] What do you do for Fox Sports? What about your podcast?

[49:38] Why didn't you transfer to another college and start for their team?

[52:01] How has Harbaugh been as a coach?

[53:47] Big Ten Football won't be happening. Do you think it was the right call?

[59:44] Check out Devin Gardener on Twitter and Instagram!

[1:00:12] Thank you for watching this episode of the Open Mike Podcast!

Brenda Hill is a candidate who ran to represent Michigan's District 10 in the State House. She was on track to win until there was a sudden and suspicious surge in votes for her competitor, Mary Cavanagh. Brenda and her friend, City Charter Commissioner Nicole Small, suspect fraud.

In this episode of the Open Mike podcast, Brenda and Nicole explain what they believe really happened in this crazy election. They dive into Mary Cavangh's background and how someone who didn't campaign could win. Tune in to hear the suspicious story and Brenda's plan to find the truth.

Show Notes

[0:04] Introducing today's guests, Nicole Small and Brenda Hill

[1:06] Brenda, can you tell us what happened with the State Representative Election?

[2:46] Was it Mary Cavanagh who you believe cheated?

[3:00] Nicole, what does your job entail at the Detroit Charter Commission?

[3:45] Nicole, what do you think happened in the District 10 election?

[7:41] What happened with the Redford clerk being kept out of his office?

[8:09] Mary Cavanagh's family history

[8:36] When were the ballots reported to have been compromised? How did it happen?

[11:55] So you want the Secretary of State to conduct an investigation?

[12:34] What do you believe happened? How did they cheat?

[15:20] You have a lot of support behind you, why has there been such a fast response to this problem?

[17:04] What is the next step?

[18:12] So where do you think these extra ballots came from?

[19:30] Brenda, can you tell us about yourself and why you want to be a State Representative?

[23:12] Thank you for watching this episode of the Open Mike podcast!

Michael Phillips Jr. and Romell Holmes run the Fathers First Movement in Detroit. Their organization works to encourage men to be active participants in their children's lives. A relatively new group, Fathers First has made great strides very quickly in the Detroit community.

In this uplifting episode, Michael and Romell talk about the need they saw in their community and how they are working to fulfill it. Mike and his guests share advice from their own experiences as fathers. The Fathers First Movement is working hard to put good into this world, hear about their mission in this episode that is guaranteed to make you smile.

Show Notes

[0:30] Introducing today's guests, Michael Phillips Jr. and Romell Holmes of the Fathers First Movement

[1:26] Can you tell us about your backgrounds?

[2:23] You didn't grow up in the best neighborhoods, then?

[2:54] What was the worst thing you saw as a kid in Detroit?

[3:52] Are you both fathers?

[4:30] Did you both go through your parents divorcing?

[5:17] What is the mission of the Fathers First Movement?

[6:40] In your communities, how do Fathers treat their children?

[8:18] Is there a racial component to this problem?

[9:38] Did you grow up with distant or absent fathers?

[10:40] The Fathers First Movement wants to show fathers that being a dad is more than signing paperwork

[12:30] A lot of men didn't have a good role model for fatherhood

[13:33] Where do you guys work?

[16:07] What do you think about the Fathers First Movement, Kayla?

[17:31] The small things can make a kid feel loved

[20:04] Can you tell us about your first event?

[21:25] Check out the Event Page!

[24:20] Michael and Romell have connections in community which helps them get people involved

[25:51] Check out the Fathers First Instagram and Facebook!

[26:05] Check out their GoFundMe!

[28:13] Kayla, what do your friends thing of this? Have you seen an effect?

[30:12] Forgiving a father who left would be very difficult

[34:06] Mike talks about his experience with his daughters

[37:08] Concluding Thank you's

[38:25] Thank you for watching this episode of the Open Mike Podcast!

George Hunter is a seasoned journalist at the Detroit News who has been covering crime stories for over 20 years. A Detroit Native, he is the author of many true crime novels as well as host of the popular podcast Sins of Detroit, a show that looks at wrongful convictions that started with investigations by the Detroit Police Department.

In this episode of the Open Mike Podcast, George discusses what he believes to be the worst wrongful conviction case he's ever covered- that of Davontae Sanford. When Sanford was 14, he was arrested for a quadruple homicide he didn't commit. Tune into this episode to hear about Davontae's journey from arrest to release and the confession of the real killer.

Show Notes

[0:04] Introducing today's guest, George Hunter

[1:02] What is your background and connection to Detroit, George?

[2:22] Why didn't you become a cop like the rest of your family?

[2:38] Why did you pick journalism?

[3:49] How long have you been on the crime beat for the Detroit News?

[4:28] What is your take on federal troops offering to come into Detroit?

[6:26] Do you think that Detroit could become the next Portland?

[8:00] Are violent crimes statistically up?

[8:33] How could COVID-19 be influencing private crime?

[10:46] What is your take on Detroit Police Chief Craig?

[12:38] Do you think Chief Craig handled the Hakim Littleton Shooting well?

[14:00] What got you fixated on wrongful convictions? Check out George's podcast Sins of Detroit!

[15:58] It's remarkable that wrongfully convicted people aren't always unbelievably bitter

[16:32] Are there any wrongful conviction cases that stick out in your memory?

[17:50] Davontae Sanford was wrongfully convicted of murder at age 14

[20:32] People are very often pressured into pleading guilty like Davontae was

[23:42] How many people have Valerie Newman and the Conviction Integrity Unit gotten out of prison?

[24:06] George's website on Davontae Sanford

[24:10] Talking about the case of Vincent Smothers who committed the crime Sanford was accused of

[28:19] How many years was Davontae Sanford in prison?

[31:02] Who was Davontae Sanford's lawyer?

[34:10] How did Davontae's case get picked up by the University of Michigan Innocence Clinic?

[35:47] Was Kym Worthy the prosecutor during the Davontae Sanford case?

[37:16] How many innocent people are sitting in prison right now?

[38:29] Check out Davontae Sanford's Road to Freedom here!

[39:33] Vincent Smother's killing of Rose Cobb

[41:50] Watch Mike's interviews with John Sheav and Chantá Parker

[42:20] Do you think that our criminal justice and defense systems are getting better?

[44:40] Watch Mike's interview with Kenny Wyniemko

[48:08] Is the Detroit Police Department going to keep using facial recognition and Project Greenlight?

[54:05] Are people complaining about project greenlight or is it stores?

[57:03] Check out George's books!

[59:04] Thank you for watching this episode of the Open Mike Podcast!

Chantá Parker is the Managing Director of the Wayne County Neighborhood Defense Service (NDS). The NDS was hired this past fall to provide better legal defense for citizens who can't afford a private lawyer. They have an excellent track record in Harlem and are working to help bring justice to Detroit.

In episode 62 of the Open Mike Podcast, Chantá explains the origns of the NDS and how they were chosen to help Detroit. Mike asks her about what changes they've seen already and what they are still working on. Tune in to hear about the great progress that the Wayne County NDS is making.

Show Notes

[0:03] Introducing today's guest, Chantá Parker

[1:15] What is your background?

[4:12] How is the Neighborhood Defender Service (NDS) different?

[7:09] Was there a Wayne County Public Defender's office before you came in?

[8:56] Are there any statistics that show how much good NDS is doing?

[10:12] Watch Mike interview the Disruptors from The Bail project in Detroit

[14:24] People are given a very low bail but still can't pay it

[15:01] How good of a job is the Bail Project doing at publicizing their services?

[17:16] Who is training the 75% of Wayne county cases that you don't take?

[20:19] Public Defenders needs to be aware of possibly corrupt or biased officials

[22:20] What do people need in Wayne Count to help with inequity?

[24:45] What level of oversight is there to make sure defense lawyers are giving enough effort?

[26:16] NDS offers free training to lawyers looking to get into public defense

[27:02] Do judges still appoint attorneys to represent defendants?

[28:25] Are you seeing judges select attorneys who don't push as hard?

[31:15] This is an old system; it will take time to change

[31:49] Are you trying more cases than Wayne county used to?

[33:32] Are criminal courts open in person now?

[35:16] How honest would you say police have been in Detroit?

[39:08] Mike is very glad that NDS has come to Detroit

[39:58] Contact Chantá at (313) 474-3200 or through the NDS website

[40:44] Thank you for watching this episode of the Open Mike podcast!

John Shea is the commissioner of the An Arbor branch of the Michigan Indigent Defense Commission and an expert on public defense. He has been in private practice since 1988 and specialized in criminal defense. John is an advocate for better indigent defense statewide as well as an excellent lawyer.

In this episode, Mike dives further into his discussion about the criminal justice system by learning about the progress being made in Michigan. John explains the origins of the MIDC, the need for a public defender office, and how he believes wrongful sentencing is a bigger problem than wrongful conviction. Watch this informative episode to hear more about the issues that still exist in the Michigan criminal justice system and what we can do about them.

Show Notes

[0:05] Introducing today's guest, Defense Attorney John Shea

[1:21] How did the MIDC get started?

[10:44] Do you agree with Professor Primus that one statewide organization is the best solution?

[12:40] Incarcerating people costs more money than providing them a lawyer

[13:53] Were there lawyers at bail hearings before the MIDC brought them in?

[16:51] People who need indigent defense usually don't have enough money to post bail

[18:44] Is ending bail for nonviolent offenders a popular movement right now?

[22:10] The Bail Project will pay up to $5,000 bail for free

[25:08] Watch the Ted Talk by the founder of the bail project here

[26:30] Was it the MIDC that picked the public defender organization that came to Wayne county?

[27:48] If a lawyer's paycheck depends on a judge, then they are disincentivized to do their job well

[30:55] The best way to handle indigent defense is through a public defender's office

[33:29] Michigan does not require lawyers to continue their education after passing the bar

[34:48] What can people do if their court appointed attorney does a bad job?

[41:10] Is the average court appointed case still $450 from beginning to end?

[43:15] Lawyers used to have to take way too many indigent defense cases to support themselves.

[44:32] Every wrongful conviction case Mike has seen has had a bad defense lawyer involved.

[47:41] Wrongful sentencing is a bigger problem than wrongful conviction

[49:19] Are clients pressured into taking bad pleas?

[52:51] Thank you for watching this episode of the open mike podcast!

Chris Quinn and Terry Johnson represent the Hill and Wuestenberg families who are on opposing sides of a prominent felonious assault case. Jillian and Eric Wuestenberg, are a white couple who allegedly pulled guns on the Hills, a black family, in the parking lot of a Chipotle. A video of the incident, filmed by one of the Hill daughters, went viral soon after.

On this episode of Open Mike, Chris and Terry tell Mike their respective sides of the story. Chris claims this incident is proof of racial bias in America while Terry believes the Wuestenbergs were acting in self-defense. Tune in to hear both sides of the argument in this special two-part episode.

Show Notes

[0:01] Mike Introduces Hill vs Wuestenberg case where a gun was pulled in a Chipotle parking lot

[2:14] Chris Quinn is the Hill family's lawyer

[2:54] What happened to your clients, the Hill family?

[4:13] Watch the video of the altercation here

[6:22] Did both of the Wuestenbergs have guns?

[6:44] In an incident between an adult and a fifteen-year-old, the adult should be responsible

[7:33] What did the fifteen-year-old say?

[8:15] Ms. Hill never threatened violence

[9:14] Being rude doesn't give someone the right to threaten someone with a gun

[10:55] Did the Wuestenbergs have licenses to carry

[11:19] What is Felonious Assault?

[12:48] When is the first court date?

[13:20] The current crisis of unarmed Black people having guns pulled on them

[15:49] The Wuestenberg's attorney's response to accusations of racism

[16:57] The Wuestenbergs felt pulling a gun on an unarmed mother and daughter was justified

[17:31] Have your clients considered filing a civil suit as well?

[18:46] If you could ask the Wuestenbergs one question, what would it be?

[19:25] Do you have any parting thoughts on this?

[20:14] Thank you for watching Chris Quinn's interview on Open Mike, stay tuned for an interview with the Wuestenberg's attorney

[20:21] Introducing the Wuestenberg's attorney, Terry Johnson

[21:13] What is your day to day law practice like?

[22:17] Check out Terry's website here

[22:39] If the Wuestenbergs had been members of Fire Arms Legal, what would happen?

[23:21] Is there more to this story that isn't in the video?

[24:41] The Wuestenbergs claim that there was no bumping inside Chipotle

[32:23] Did the police show up at the scene?

[32:50] When can someone pull a gun on someone?

[33:57] How could the Hills have caused serious bodily harm?

[37:12] What were the charges against your clients?

[39:55] Terry explains his quotes about how Eric and Jillian Hill's lives have changed

[42:44] If the Hills had been white, would your client have pulled a gun?

[44:53] How long ago was the incident?

[45:58] No one is considering why the Hills made the bump a problem in the first place or filmed it

[48:35] How would you tell your firearm student to behave in Ms. Hill's situation?

[50:30] Watch Mike's interviews with Karen McDonald and Jessica Cooper

[51:27] Terry believes that the current political climate has affected this case

[52:40] Shootings of unarmed Black people in America

[58:40] Thank you for watching this episode of the Open Mike podcast!