Welcome to another Other Ways of Seeing Conversation. This one's with Gaby Grant. She's a creative for Adam and Eve TBWA, which is a classic ad agency name, and it is a classic ad agency. It's very famous and does amazing work. She's also a conceptual artist. Currently, her art practice is also a business, and it's called These Tits Are Mine. This is in her words…

“Gaby is the founder of These Tits Are Mine, an activist clothing brand that creates custom garments printed with people's own tits and chests to help them reclaim and celebrate their bodies.

She started the brand after having her own topless photo leaked on the Internet without her consent as a teenager. Since then she has been on a quest to take ownership back of her body and help others do the exact same, no matter what their story.”

What happened to her was pretty brutal, and here's a trigger warning for anyone who was unfortunate enough to have a similar experience.. which is have someone take a photo that you've sent personally, of your body, and then they put it on the internet. What a bunch of bastards. So, yeah, if this has happened to you, here's a warning that this is what we'll be talking about. We'll also be talking about the Other Ways of Seeing roots, where it all came from, talking about the story behind an artist's work and how important that is. Gaby's influences, including Lily Allen and the Young British Artists, the YBAs and the Sensation exhibition. We also talk about the similarities of conceptual art and advertising. We then delve into the story behind These Tits Are Mine, and I think it's quite a long journey to get there, and maybe the realisation of why she's doing what she's doing, but it's a very interesting one and it's very moving. We also talk about how the business and her art practice fits in with her day job. We discuss if art in advertising can actually exist. And lots of other things in between. It was an amazing conversation. Thank you so much to Gaby. She is such an amazing orator, much better than I am. And I barely had to edit this conversation at all. It was just pure joy.

A little word about our sponsor, hungryman. hungryman is a global commercial production company with offices in London, New York, Los Angeles and Sao Paulo. Hungryman's work spans blockbuster spectacle, sharp comedy, and emotionally driven storytelling. Do check out their website, hungryman.com. You can find all their amazing work on there. They don't just make commercials, they also make art. They make dance activist pieces, films, musicals, and some of those films are Oscar nominated. I mean, it's just amazing. Their scope is huge. Anyway, check them out. I'm very, very pleased to have their support and that they believe in this project. Thanks, hungryman!

Welcome to another Other Ways of Seeing conversation. A podcast about the art we make alongside our already very creative jobs. An investigation into why we feel the urge to make that art. Or for the artist I will be talking to, the urge to make different work from what she’s known for and what she sells.

This conversation is rather special because it’s with Wendy McBride my mum-in-law. She is a successful artist in the South West of England drawing inspiration from her home in Devon and Dartmoor, all the way to the Isles of Scilly. Working mostly in pastels Wendy paints landscapes which are sometimes representational and sometimes not so much. In her early eighties you’d think she’d got her practice down, sorted.. but as with many artists, she struggles with what she wants to make and what she feels she should produce for her audience and the galleries that represent her. Commissioned versus non commissioned art.

We begin our conversation talking about Jude, her grandson who is an incredible drummer. Wendy’s love of Jazz and how that fits with her relationship with abstract art. We discuss the influence of her childhood, growing up alone in the wildness of Anglesey and drawing in books in wartime. Wendy speaks about how she first started selling her work in the Scillies after being encouraged by her husband Keith. We talk about how some of her earlier work didn’t sell because it was ‘too abstract’ but needing to sell to supplement the family income and how that changed her work. We chat about her most recent solo show at White Space Gallery in Totnes. Wendy explains why painting pretty pictures is not enough anymore. We talk about compromising quality for cash and we touch on Wendy’s poetry. We end with advice for aspiring artists and look to the future of her art.

A little word about our sponsor hungryman… hungryman is a global production company with offices in London, New York, Los Angeles and São Paulo. Known for pairing high-end craft with a distinctive point of view, hungryman’s work spans blockbuster spectacle, sharp comedy, and emotionally driven storytelling. And here is where it gets interesting in terms of Other Ways of Seeing.. beyond commercial work, hungryman’s advocacy arm continues to expand the role of storytelling in culture. Across its two art activist ResistDance films and live performances, the large-scale dance protest project generated more than 100 million views, reaching 1.5 billion people across nearly 100 countries. Mind blowing. At the same time, hungryman’s growing entertainment division is developing a slate of films, documentaries, and stage projects. And hopefully we’ll be diving into those art projects here at Other Ways of Seeing soon.

But now, back to Wendy McBride…

Welcome to the fifth Other Ways of Seeing conversation. Woohoo number 5! Other Ways of Seeing is a project to discover the personal or not so personal art practices of people who work in the creative industries. Now I’m walking on thin ice here because for the person I’ll be talking to - conceptual artist Daniel Eatock, there is no distinction between personal artwork and commercial art.. it’s all art. And it’s all work. He also has issues with the term ‘Creative Industries’ and what that means to him.. or what it doesn’t mean to him. I mean, I possibly need to edit my whole intro and description of this podcast and project. And that was what our whole conversation was like.. mind-bending. You can almost hear the cogs in my brain grinding away.. Dan has an incredible knack of making you look at things differently and question what you thought you already knew. It was a gift having that time to rework my brain. Stuff I will take away with me and use forever. I hope you do too.

Our conversation was recorded in Dan’s amazing studio in East London. We spoke about intention, the artist Ithell Colquhoun, painting and photography as mediums, Fontana, Dan’s rolling pin paintings, work and being creative. We talked about the creative industries (you can’t see me but I’ve put that in inverted commas with my fingers), Andy Warhol’s Factory, compromise and collaboration, Dan’s film for Winsor & Newton with Maria Lax and his one minute circles and one hour circles. Lastly Dan explained how he came to think the way he does and honing that skill, every day.

Welcome to the fourth Other Ways of Seeing conversation. Other Ways of Seeing is a project to discover the personal or not so personal art practices of people who work in the creative industries. What they make and why they make it. This conversation is with Steph. I can’t reveal her whole name as she’s chosen to talk to me anonymously. Steph is the Global Creative Director of a toy company. I mean that’s dumming it down, it’s probably the most famous toy company in the world and it’s not just for kids either. It’s brilliant at encouraging creativity.. and clearly her job is incredibly creative. And yet.. in her very little spare time she chooses to be creative in a different way. She is a comedian. She’s been writing comedy for a few years now and more recently she’s been performing.

This conversation was recorded at the end of November 2025. We talk about not quitting your day job and why.. The practice of waking up early every morning to write. The comedy writing techniques she’s learned from Logan Murray. Drinking coffee (and vodka!) though tampons.. bit sad we go into that more. The ‘crumbs of validation’ from her Instagram profile. Admitting the thing that you really truly desire. Bombing but carrying on. Being funny at work. The 90s ‘lean in’ culture. What it means to be ‘professional’. The blurring boundaries between personal and work life. Becoming more confident at stand up. Making people laugh being the best feeling in the world. The sitcom Hacks. Writing about immigration and getting negative comments. And hurricane names.

Before we get into the conversation, a quick note about sponsorship. Right at the beginning of the conversation I mention not wanting to monetise Other Ways of Seeing or look for sponsorship as this could affect who I talk to. Which of course is true but not necessarily a bad thing. I take it back! Hungryman, a super successful production company have just offered me sponsorship. I didn’t even ask for it! And it would be crazy to refuse because now I can buy some decent mics. And they have opened the doors to some ridiculously interesting conversations. So thank you Hungryman for the support and being my first ever sponsor.

Welcome to the third Other Ways of Seeing conversation. Other Ways of Seeing is a project to discover the personal or not so personal art practices of people who work in the creative industries. What they make and why they make it. This conversation is with Anthony Burrill. Ant is a super famous graphic artist, most well known for his positive aphorisms, in particular his extremely popular poster ‘Work Hard and Be Nice to People’.

We began the conversation talking about his son Jack’s final show for his fine art degree at Camberwell, working solo, collaborating with Oswin Tickler (omg I love his name), keeping on doing what you love, taking commissions, not taking commissions. You & Me & Me & You, the epic piece that’s the size of a building because it’s ON the side of a building! Work that didn’t translate so well, simplifying, trusting your intuition, a wine bar that he sent me pictures of by mistake, unfortunate places your work can end up, and the power of a single image.

Welcome to another Other Ways of Seeing conversation. Other Ways of Seeing is a project to discover the personal art practices of people who work in the creative industries. What they make and why they make it. This second conversation is with directing duo Fitch/Baker otherwise known as Matt Fitch and Chris Baker. Matt is a Creative Director at a popular independent advertising agency called Pablo, Chris is Head of New Business at Park Village, a long established London based film production company. We talk about how they met, bonding over comics, writing comics and falling out of love with comics. We discuss their highly awarded short film Backmask and how much time and money and belief it takes to get films made and out there in the world. We consider how personal projects fit around their paid work and families, and how having kids has actually helped their creative output. We chat about art and the weird stuff they like to do to inspire themselves. We also discuss not directing ads. And creating, simply for the love of it..

Sophie is a hugely successful and prolific photographer and more recently, film maker. We start at the beginning of her career in advertising as an account handler in ad agency BDDP et Fils in Paris, to Mother in London and then JWT which leads her to jack it all in to become a photographer. We talk about where her projects come from, her influences, motherhood, incredibly brave exhibitions held in her own house, and an awesome piece of advice for herself when she started out…