Our Public Lands

In this episode, I speak with Ryan Semerad—attorney with Fuller & Semerad Law Firm—who represented the four hunters who were charged with trespass after corner crossing over a private ranch onto public lands in Wyoming. The Supreme Court issued an order on Monday declining to hear the case, upholding the district court ruling dropping the charges. As a result, corner crossing is now legal across the 10th Circuit and likely elsewhere across the country.

Our discussion covers the historical and legal intricacies of corner crossing—a practice whereby the public steps from one public land parcel to another across the corner point of private land onto public land—and how this ruling could influence similar cases outside of the 10th Circuit. Ryan recounts the multi-year litigation journey, the pivotal moments along the way, and the impact of the 10th Circuit ruling, which now prohibits private landowners from using airspace trespassing laws to block access to these public lands. He also sheds light on the broader implications of this legal precedent for hunters, anglers, and public land enthusiasts.

00:57 Legal Victory for Corner Crossing Hunters

02:35 Ryan’s Reflections on the Case

04:44 The Elk Mountain Ranch Incident

08:22 Historical Context of Checkerboard Land Patterns

18:07 Litigation Journey and Supreme Court Decision

22:07 Public and Private Reactions to the Ruling

24:36 Ranchers’ Opposition to Corner Crossing

27:31 Property Rights and Public Lands

28:05 Implications of the 10th Circuit Decision

29:11 Legal Precedents in Other Circuits

30:45 Navigating the Legal Process

31:52 Monumenting Public Land Corners

35:12 Land Exchanges and Consolidations

37:11 Litigation Challenges and Key Moments

47:32 The Importance of Public Lands

49:26 Final Thoughts and Gratitude

Affirmed Decision

https://www.thefullerlawyers.com/

https://montanafreepress.org/2025/10/20/supreme-court-declines-to-take-landowner-appeal-in-corner-crossing-case/

In this episode, I interview Joe Gutkoski, a conservation legend and hero to many in Southwest Montana. Joe passed away in 2021.

In the introduction, I am joined by former friend and colleague Pat Simmons who shares personal stories and background about Joe.

Joe was born and raised in northeast Pennsylvania, and details his move to Montana after serving in the Navy in 1946. He discusses his 30-plus year career with the Forest Service working a landscape architect, and tensions that arose when he would advocate for conservation and preservation over new extraction plans. Our conversation explores the historical attitudes towards wilderness and conservation, key legislation like the 1964 Wilderness Act, and the controversial cozy relationship between the Forest Service and logging industry. Joe discusses his efforts to protect and reintroduce wild bison in Montana which have evolved into recognizable organizations and campaigns. Our discussion transitions to the proposals for the Gallatin Range and the tension between private industry and land conservation efforts.

Last Trek of the Human Wolverine

04:02 Pat Simmons Remembers Joe Gutkowski

27:55 Joe Gutkowski’s Early Life and Career

47:51 The Near Extinction of the Buffalo

49:06 Smithsonian’s Buffalo Expedition

51:33 Buffalo Skins and Private Land

53:04 Rediscovering the Last Buffalo Camp

58:22 The Big Open Project

01:08:11 Gallatin Range Wilderness Debate

01:14:08 The Role of Landscape Architects

01:20:21 Gifford Pinchot and Early Conservation

01:30:17 Final Thoughts

In this episode, I interview Ryan Busse, 2024 Democratic candidate for Montana Governor and former executive with Kimber Firearms.

We discuss crucial issues surrounding public lands, conservation, and hunting advocacy. Ryan highlights his concern for the declining state of democracy and its impact on public lands, emphasizing the need for hunters and anglers to be unapologetic in their advocacy for wild places. We critique the current state of hunting nonprofits, arguing they are not adequately fighting for public land protections. Ryan introduces his new organization, Public Land Warriors, who fund advertisements targeting politicians who threaten public lands. Ryan underscores the significance of protecting Wilderness Study Areas and roadless lands to maintain the essence of wild America, and discusses his personal wilderness and wildlife experiences that have had profound impacts on his life.

Public Land Warriors

03:25 Interview with Ryan Busse Begins

04:04 Bird Hunting and Conservation Insights

08:14 Public Lands Grazing Issues

13:40 Ryan Busse’s Background and Political Journey

18:22 Challenges and Future of Public Lands

43:17 Environmental Concerns in Montana

44:16 Recreation and Development Threats

47:20 Advocacy for Conservation

50:52 Critique of Hunting and Angling Nonprofits

54:19 Political Influence on Conservation

01:02:16 Hunting’s Public Relations Problem

01:06:18 Instilling Conservation Values in the Next Generation

01:07:23 Wilderness Study Areas and Roadless Protections

01:12:53 Public Land Warriors

01:17:56 Conclusion and Call to Action

In this episode, I interview Christopher Keyes, former editor-in-chief of Outside Magazine about his new venture RE:PUBLIC, a journalism outlet dedicated to covering public lands issues. We discuss his journalism career and 15 years working at Outside Magazine. Our conversation covers the significance of public lands, the recreation economy, and the challenges faced by the journalism industry. Chris emphasizes the necessity of objective journalism in the current political climate and his plans to steer RE:PUBLIC towards impactful storytelling and investigative reporting. Our discussion also explores the complexities of balancing recreation, conservation, and extraction, and how the outdoor recreation industry has become a powerful economic force in recent decades.

https://www.republic.land/

https://outdoorindustry.org/press-release/republic-brings-public-lands-to-the-front-page/

00:57 Gratitude to Listeners and Supporters

03:11 Chris's Journalism Journey

06:13 The Role and Impact of Journalism

13:48 Public Lands and the Outdoor Industry

15:47 Balancing Recreation and Conservation

22:46 The Future of Public Lands Journalism

27:01 The Role of Journalism in Public Land Issues

28:31 Bias and Objectivity in Reporting

29:33 The Recreation Economy and Public Lands

34:00 Introducing RE:PUBLIC

45:19 The Importance of Public Lands

47:53 Conclusion and Final Thoughts

In this episode, I interview Josh Jackson, author and public lands advocate. Our discussion centers around Bureau of Land Management (BLM) lands and the imperative of connecting people to these vast stretches of public lands. We discuss Josh’s new book, The Enduring Wild, which focuses on California BLM lands and aims to highlight their beauty and importance through immersive storytelling, photography, and essays. He elaborates on the themes and messages from his book, emphasizing the need for public awareness and engagement to protect these lands from industrial threats. Josh also discusses his passion for leading trips for urban dwellers to introduce them to camping and the natural world.

The Enduring Wild

Josh’s Substack (Forgotten Lands Project)

Usal Project

Totem Salmon

00:00 Introduction to Josh Jackson and Public Lands

00:15 Discussing 'The Enduring Wild'

00:29 Josh's Passion for Leading Camping Trips

01:02 Personal Experiences in Death Valley

02:12 Exploring BLM Lands Around Death Valley

03:53 The Usal Project and Urbanites' Introduction to Nature

08:23 Connecting People to Public Lands

12:48 History and Importance of BLM Lands

16:35 Challenges and Conservation Efforts

20:36 The King Range Conservation Area

27:08 The Mojave Desert Camping Trip

28:34 Challenges in BLM Management

30:11 The Lost Coast

31:13 Salmon Conservation Efforts

34:40 Exploring BLM Lands in California

36:27 The Bodie Hills

39:56 Wilderness

51:07 The Importance of Public Lands

In this episode, I interview Josh Schlossberg, a forest advocate, coordinator of the Eco-Integrity Alliance, and eco-horror writer. Josh discusses the complexities of forest management and the profound challenges that come with advocating for public lands. We critically examine the role of propaganda and biased journalism in shaping public opinion on wildfire management. Josh shares his experience with public records requests that reveal disinformation campaigns and discusses how political and financial motivations influence land management policies in his home state of Colorado and beyond. Josh also emphasizes the importance of creating independent media to counteract mainstream narratives.

00:20 The Role of Propaganda in Wildfire Management

01:58 Debating Forest Management Science

06:24 Challenges in Advocacy and Media

10:16 Josh's Journey into Advocacy

23:23 Eco Horror Fiction and Advocacy

28:38 Philosophical Reflections on Nature and Humanity

36:31 Wildfire Fatalities vs. Vending Machines

37:28 Eco Integrity Alliance and Wildfire Pretense Logging

38:46 Forest Fire Malfeasance Report

41:57 Public Records Request and Disinformation

46:10 Coordination and Conspiracy in Wildfire Management

48:05 Trump's Logging Policies and Public Reaction

59:47 Challenges in Media Coverage and Advocacy

01:12:51 Concluding Thoughts on Public Lands

https://news.mongabay.com/2025/08/old-forests-new-fires-and-a-scientific-standoff-over-active-management/

https://coloradosmokescreen.org/forest-fire-malfeasance/

https://coloradonewsline.com/2025/08/12/mislead-coloradans-wildfire-science/

https://eco-integrityalliance.org/

https://joshsworstnightmare.com/

In this episode, I interview Tim Whitehouse, executive director of Public Employees for Environmental Responsibility (PEER). Tim discusses PEER's unique mission in representing public employees, particularly whistleblowers. Our conversation touches on the challenges faced by public employees, the critical state of public lands, and the impact of current administrative policies. Tim emphasizes the importance of public engagement and support for civil servants and federal workers.

https://peer.org/

https://peer.org/areas-of-work/public-lands/grazing-reform/mapping-rangeland-health/

01:33 Tim Whitehouse's Career Journey

02:44 The Mission and Work of PEER

04:13 Challenges in Public Land Management

08:54 Whistleblower Protections and Challenges

16:35 Impact of Administrative Policies on Public Employees

31:07 Current State and Future of Public Lands

38:00 Conclusion and Call to Action

In this episode, I sit down with Brock Evans, a legend in the conservation movement. Brock is now 88 years old and lives in La Grande, Oregon with his wife Linda. He discusses his decades-long journey of conservation efforts ranging from protecting the North Cascades National Park, to the Hells Canyon and the French Pete drainage in Oregon. He recounts his encounters with logging and mining threats, his involvement with the Sierra Club, his friendships with key figures like David Brower, and his experience lobbying in Washington, D.C. Brock emphasizes the importance of grassroots activism, drawing boundaries around lands you want to see protected, and adapting new strategies for the contemporary conservation movement. He also shares personal stories of organizing local communities to protect wild places on public lands highlighting the roles of passion and unity in successful conservation efforts.

https://www.wakerobinpress.com/endless.html#/

https://www.amazon.com/Fight-Win-Evanss-Strategies-Eco-warrior/dp/0578132958

https://www.hellscanyon.org/single-post/preremembering-brock-evans-oregon-conservationist

04:10 Brock Evans' Early Conservation Efforts

05:10 Discovering the Wilderness and Activism

09:57 The Fight for the North Cascades

11:37 Battles Against Logging and Mining

15:55 Organizing for Conservation

20:24 Hells Canyon and Legislative Battles

44:49 National and International Conservation Efforts

46:48 David Brower and the Sierra Club

51:16 Early Days and Financial Struggles

52:06 Campaign to Protect French Pete Creek

55:29 Grassroots Activism and Love Battles

58:56 Challenges in Modern Conservation

01:07:34 The Importance of Naming and Boundaries

01:15:27 Advice for Future Generations

01:17:13 Reflections on a Life of Advocacy

01:33:38 Final Thoughts and Farewell

In this episode, I interview Len Montgomery — the Great Outdoors Campaign Director for Environment America, about her background in environmental activism and her work to protect public lands and forests. Len shares insights from her early days collecting public comments for the Roadless Rule and her experiences as an environmental organizer. Our discussion delves into the history and significance of roadless areas, the ongoing threats from recent and current administrations, and the importance of combining both traditional and modern organizing methods. Len also talks about the need for public education, the role of various environmental groups, and the broader implications of logging and wildfire management on national forests as it relates back to roadless protections.

01:48 The Roadless Rule: History and Significance

02:57 Challenges and Threats to Roadless Areas

03:45 Len Montgomery's Journey in Environmental Activism

05:35 Organizing and Advocacy: Then and Now

09:54 Understanding Roadless Areas and Their Importance

23:21 The 2001 Roadless Rule and Its Impact

28:29 Recent Developments and Political Challenges

50:20 The Role of Public Support and Future Advocacy

59:18 Conclusion and Final Thoughts

https://environmentamerica.org

In this episode, I interview Jim Pattiz of More Than Just Parks, to talk about the unprecedented damages to public lands that we can soon expect from the recent enactment of the Big Beautiful Bill. First, we discuss his latest film about the Ocmulgee Mounds, an ancient indigenous gathering site in Georgia before moving on the impacts of the recent reconciliation bill, highlighting the massive increases in mandated logging on federal lands, long-term timber contracts, unsustainable coal mining practices, and how these policies undermine environmental protections. We also discuss how the United States and the public domain is being “asset stripped” for value for the wealthy and the ruling class. Our discussion also emphasizes the erosion of legal frameworks like NEPA, and the rollback of safeguards meant to protect roadless areas using the Tongas National Forest as one example. Jim underscores the need for political and public action to reverse these damaging policies, advocating for a legislative rider that can safeguard public lands and serve as a strategic political win for Democrats in the months ahead.

06:20 The Ocmulgee Mounds: A Historical and Cultural Treasure

19:42 Reconciliation Bill: The Biggest Attack on Public Lands in Modern History

47:24 Mandates and Quotas

48:59 The Decline of the Coal Industry

52:33 Environmental Rollbacks and Their Consequences

53:48 Logging and Local Economies:

56:39 Reinstating Canceled Leases

59:35 The Roadless Rule and Its Implications

01:07:56 Public Lands: A Political Battleground

01:14:30 A Call to Action: Protecting Our Public Lands

01:32:12 Conclusion: The Importance of Public Lands

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/40873920-the-lost-city-of-the-monkey-god

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1212428/

https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/60165403-wild-new-world

More Than Just Parks