In this solo podcast, I address the broader argument against aversive tools in dog training promoted by the AVSAB and the R+-only movement.Recently, Dr. Michael Bailey, President of the American Veterinary Medical Association, commented on the use of electronic collars in dog training. That comment triggered backlash and a strong response from Dr. Lisa Radosta, President of the American College of Veterinary Behaviorists.But this presentation is not about personalities.It’s about the claim that aversives never have a place in dog training.Using peer-reviewed research, learning theory, and real-world outcomes, I examine whether the “no aversives ever” position is actually supported by evidence and what happens to dogs when ideology overrides results.At the end, I invite you, the trainers and owners, to share stories of dogs who are alive today because balanced training worked when nothing else did.Outcomes matter.