Most business owners dramatically underestimate what it takes to sell successfully—until it's finally too late. 

@Tony Brown founder of @DMA is a seasoned expert in Australia's mid-market transactions. We talk about hidden pitfalls that lead to owners leaving money on the table, and the critical steps in preparing your business two years before selling. 

We break down how owner dependence, cultural fit, and timing can make or break your sale. 

And, you'll learn about why cleaning up your balance sheet, structuring flexible exit options, and keeping key staff informed is so important.

The episode is very timely for an owner on the cusp of selling.

In this episode:

Timestamps:

00:00 - Why most owners leave money on the table in a business sale

02:10 - The importance of viewing your business from an outsider's perspective

04:23 - How due diligence can turn your business upside down

05:25 - Defining the mid-market: what most Australian businesses look like

07:11 - Why a business is more like a virtual walkthrough than a house

09:42 - The crucial difference owner-operator mindset vs. strategic buyers

12:19 - The sweet spot: industry focus and the role of strategic vs. financial buyers

14:43 - How owner emotional ties influence negotiation and sale strategy

16:34 - The significance of cultural and strategic fit over price alone

18:55 - How foreign acquirers and local sellers can align interests

20:19 - The importance of owner transition planning

22:53 - Why your business "value" depends on owner involvement and planning ahead

24:54 - The power of structure: minority shareholdings, options, and de-risking deals

26:48 - Transitioning to a project-focused exit and meaningful post-sale work

28:28 - The rise of industry-specific, project-based advisory boards

30:24 - How industry giants buy and what that means for small business owners

33:34 - Protecting your business from over-sharing and maintaining confidentiality

37:07 - The risks of rushing a sale—what owners often screw up

40:34 - Preparing your balance sheet and operations two years prior to sale

43:24 - The common pitfalls when owners get overattached to systems and tech

45:39 - The underrated value of intellectual property and brand assets

48:29 - Envisioning a better small business environment—less regulation, more supportIf you want to walk away with a clear game plan, more confidence, and less risk in your exit strategy—this episode is a must-listen. Tony Brown's insights aren't just theory—they're battle-tested, real-world truths that could maximize your sale and protect your legacy.

Resources & Links:

Connect with Tony:

@kerrcapital.com.au 

Thanks for listening.  Visit the Owner To Owner Podcast website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show.

Search @ownertoownerpodcast on your favourite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes.

Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business.

[email protected]

www.ownertoownerpodcast.com.au

Jacinta and Jesse from JC and the Tree have built their version of freedom, in music and in life. They have 3 years of touring Australia to prove it. From the road, gig by gig, they've had a a red hot crack at running a fully DIY music business while travelling Australia.

This is a grounded look at what that actually takes: long drives, small crowds, constant admin, and making the numbers work through gigs, merch, and multiple income streams. They share how they stay organised, why community matters more than scale, and the trade-offs most people underestimate.

It’s a bit romantic, and a lot about being practical, disciplined, and deliberate. A useful and entirely motivating case study for anyone thinking about taking the leap to 'do a lap' and maintain or indeed start a new business.

The message - get out and have a crack! Here's a couple of tracks to get your trip started.

Outrun the Sun

Wide Open Plain

Made to Roam

Main Insights:

Timestamps:

00:00 - The transformative power of living and working in a DIY artist community

01:02 - A typical day on the road: exercise, driving, gigs, and admin chaos

03:43 - The magic of small crowds: intimacy and authenticity in live music

05:08 - Moving from full-time jobs to chasing music dreams: risk, burnout, and breakthroughs

07:55 - The real costs: gear, recordings, and building a sustainable music business

09:11 - Breaking free from expensive rent, embracing a van life for freedom and purpose

13:13 - Skills beyond music: craftsmanship, bookkeeping, and digital literacy

17:50 - Streaming vs. traditional income: the harsh realities and future promises

21:28 - The potential of sync licensing—turning creative work into passive income streams

25:44 - The resilience of community: mental health, support, and the shared journey

27:23 - The evolving Australian live music scene: opportunities for indie musicians

29:42 - Challenges of balancing passion, business, and personal wellbeing on the road

36:35 - The pros and cons of platforms like Bandcamp, Spotify, and the quest for fair revenue

42:43 - Artistic passion vs. business acumen: living the lifestyle and sustaining the craft

51:45 - Imagining policy initiatives: fairness, tax accountability, and supporting small businesses

55:12 - Final words: the importance of community, resilience, and bold choices in art and life

Resources & Links:

JC and the Tree 

Facebook

Instagram 

Thanks for listening.  Visit the Owner To Owner Podcast website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show.

Search @ownertoownerpodcast on your favourite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes.

Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business.

[email protected]

www.ownertoownerpodcast.com.au

@Michael Kerr and @Andy Farquharson dive into #employeeownership

Andy founded @abettermonday  and hosts the @alternativeexit podcast. 

They discuss;

• Why Employee Ownership is such a viable exit strategy for small business owners 
• The benefits of EO for;
• How EO has the potential to bridge wealth disparities and enhance productivity

The conversation also covers what's needed to increase the number of successful EO transitions, including;

1. The importance of engaging employees in the ownership transition process
2. The need for a supportive regulatory framework, and 
3. The cultural shifts required for successful implementation. 

Key takeaways

• Employee ownership can sustain small businesses and local economies.
• There is a significant productivity increase in employee-owned businesses.
• Employee ownership requires a cultural shift within organizations.
• Education and access to data are crucial for employee engagement.
• Employee ownership can help bridge wealth disparities in communities.
• Transitioning to employee ownership needs capital and management expertise.
• The regulatory environment must support employee ownership models.
• Employee ownership is viable for various types of businesses.
• Engaging employees early in the ownership conversation is essential.
• Local investment can enhance the success of employee-owned businesses.

Chapters

00:00 Exploring Employee Ownership as an Exit Strategy

03:15 Andy Farquharson's Journey to Employee Ownership

08:04 The Benefits of Employee Ownership for All Stakeholders

10:33 The Role of Benevolent Owners in Employee Ownership

15:33 Addressing Wealth Disparity and Worker Disengagement

19:11 Implementing the Owner Operating System

24:10 Common Misunderstandings About Employee Ownership

26:24 Engaging Owners in the Employee Ownership Conversation

29:44 The Importance of Open Communication in Business Sales

30:36 Aligning Incentives for Employee Engagement

32:35 Preparing Businesses for Sale: Cultural Changes

34:25 The Psychological Barriers of Exit Planning

35:04 The Challenge of Business Improvement

36:25 Employee Ownership: A Fit for All Businesses?

39:48 The Continuum of Employee Ownership Models

42:00 The Role of Small Business Owners

44:39 Engagement Levels in Employee Ownership

45:25 Bringing European Employee Ownership Models to Australia

47:19 The Impact of Employee Ownership in Regional Communities

49:27 Key Conditions for Successful Employee Ownership

51:00 Top Priorities for Small Business Policy

54:18 OTO outro 15-4-25.mp3

@kerrcapital

Thanks for listening.  Visit the Owner To Owner Podcast website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show.

Search @ownertoownerpodcast on your favourite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes.

Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business.

[email protected]

www.ownertoownerpodcast.com.au

@Rebecca Barnett serendipitously acquired the @Maldon Bakery  The Bakery is 154 years old and also the oldest continuously running bakery in Australia. It's a hell of a legacy to take on!

Find out how serendipity led her to this historic gem, her challenges in reviving its legacy, and the continuous improvement model that drives her success. From leveraging family history in baking to navigating the complexities of running a business, Rebecca shares her insights on;

• entrepreneurship
• the importance of community support
• the value of mentorship
• the art of baking 

Tune in to learn how passion and vision can turn a dream into reality.

@kerrcapital

Thanks for listening.  Visit the Owner To Owner Podcast website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show.

Search @ownertoownerpodcast on your favourite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes.

Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business.

[email protected]

www.ownertoownerpodcast.com.au

@Michael Kerr talks with @Nigel Purchase founder of Chase Basketball. Nigel and his team have just celebrated a 25 year business birthday. A mighty fine effort for this #familybusiness.  Nigel is all in on his business. It's his passion, it's his superannuation and he still loves going to work!

In the discussion Nigel reflects on the 25-year journey, talks about his still strong passion for coaching and the positive impact it has on young athletes. He discusses the challenges he faced in the early days, the importance of mentorship, and the unique dynamics of running a family business. 

The conversation also touches on;

• the significance of community
• his own business philosophy
• the joy of doing what you love and the importance of building a supportive team.

Takeaways;

• Early challenges included navigating the popularity of basketball in a competitive sports market.
• Mentorship played a crucial role in his business development.
• Family involvement is key to the business's culture and success.
• Community and belonging are central to the mission of Chase Basketball.
• Growth is important, but it should not compromise the quality of the programs.
• A positive work culture is fostered through recognition and support
• Contentment with one's business and life is a significant achievement.  

Chapters

00:00 The Journey of Chase Basketball

09:19 Challenges and Growth in Business

12:36 The Importance of Mentorship

16:08 Family and Community in Business

20:22 Future Generations and Legacy

23:32 Finding Fulfillment in Business

28:41 Reflecting on Purpose and Value

30:02 Business as a Personal Superannuation

32:33 The Balance of Growth and Contentment

35:35 Finding Joy in Business and Community

39:04 Future Aspirations and Growth in Basketball

43:46 Philosophy of Business and Leadership

49:10 Navigating Politics and Small Business Challenges

@kerrcapital

Thanks for listening.  Visit the Owner To Owner Podcast website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show.

Search @ownertoownerpodcast on your favourite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes.

Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business.

[email protected]

www.ownertoownerpodcast.com.au

Host @Michael Kerr and guest @Elise Heslop talk through how and why Elise transitioned from a 'safe and secure' corporate role to life as an entrepreneur. After taking a family sabbatical in Italy, she founded Ply Room, a values-based furniture business. After she successfully sold Ply Room she's headed back to a new role in Corporate as Head of Marketing for @earlypay. A full circle with lots of challenges overcome, lessons learned, and pivotal moments. 

We dig deep into her experiences of being a solo founder and owner of a #smallbusiness;

• The importance of trusting your instincts to the realities of running a small business
• Finding resilience and adaptability
• The highs and lows of business ownership
• The courage it takes to follow your own path
• Elise's family sabbatical in Italy as a pivotal moment in her career
• The realities of small business ownership - loneliness, stress
• Trying to find balance between business and personal life
• Elise shares insights on finding a supportive network
• What it's like to start then sell a business 

Chapters

• 00:00:00 Introduction to Elise Heslop
• 00:03:00 From Corporate to Entrepreneurship
• 00:09:00 Founding Ply Room
• 00:15:00 Challenges and Lessons Learned
• 00:21:00 The Importance of Instincts
• 00:27:00 Balancing Business and Personal Life
• 00:33:00 Conclusion and Reflections

@kerrcapital

Thanks for listening.  Visit the Owner To Owner Podcast website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show.

Search @ownertoownerpodcast on your favourite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes.

Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business.

[email protected]

www.ownertoownerpodcast.com.au

In this compelling episode of "Owner to Owner," host Michael Kerr dives deep with Dr. Craig West, the visionary founder of Succession Plus. Together, they unpick the transformative power of employee ownership programs and their profound impact on business value and succession planning. Discover how and why these strategies not only enhance business resilience but also foster community well-being. Dr. West shares invaluable insights on;

• How employee ownership programs can significantly enhance business value.
• Why early exit planning is crucial for business success.
• How employee share plans help retain key staff and improve business resilience.
• Why understanding business value is so essential for business owners.
• How succession planning benefits both businesses and communities.
• Employee ownership as a strategic exit option.
• Why employee share plans are gaining popularity in Australia

Chapters

• 00:00:00 Introduction to Employee Ownership
• 00:00:00 Benefits of Employee Share Plans
• 00:00:00 Valuation and Exit Planning
• 00:00:00 Succession Planning in Australia
• 00:00:00 Community Impact and Business Resilience

Thanks for listening.  Visit the Owner To Owner Podcast website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show.

Search @ownertoownerpodcast on your favourite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes.

Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business.

[email protected]

www.ownertoownerpodcast.com.au

@Gabe Villarreal founder, business buyer and business growth adviser on scaling a liquor business to a million dollars in monthly revenue. We discuss strategies for over coming the practical challenges of scaling and exiting businesses, as well as the merits of 'holding' businesses rather than selling. 

He stresses the importance of imperfect action, learning from failures, and having options in business. 

Gabe also talks about his experiences in different industries and countries, and the significance of building a business with an exit strategy in mind.

Takeaways

• The importance of imperfect action over waiting for perfection.
• Learning from failures.
• Having options in business is more important than the exit itself.
• Building a business with an exit strategy in mind is essential.
• Cash flow management is critical for business survival.
• Acquiring an established business can be more efficient than starting from scratch.

@michael kerr 

@kerr capital 

Thanks for listening.  Visit the Owner To Owner Podcast website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show.

Search @ownertoownerpodcast on your favourite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes.

Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business.

[email protected]

www.ownertoownerpodcast.com.au

@Jacquie Riddell is an experienced #NFP leader and current chair of the @CBAA. The NFP or #ThirdSector is presenting huge challenges to leadership, employees and the many volunteers. Jacquie and host @Michael Kerr talk about;

• Financial sustainability
• Mergers & Acquisitions in the NFP sector
• The impact of overcrowding in the charity sector
• The need for adopting new and better business models and #tech to improve effectiveness
• Governance, collaboration, and the role of philanthropy
• The future of charities
• The phenomenon of 'accidental retirement' (read Jacquie's article on this here https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:7334094500333531138/
• How professionals can transition from corporate roles to the not-for-profit sector

Some key takeaways

1. Not-for-profits need reliable cash, not just goodwill.
2. The charity sector is overcrowded with over 60,000 charities in Australia.
3. Passion alone is not enough; capability is essential.
4. Successful charities adopt business models similar to for-profits.
5. Governance is critical for the growth of not-for-profits.
6. Mergers and collaborations can enhance sustainability in the charity sector.
7. Philanthropy is a major opportunity for charities, especially during wealth transfer.
8. Post-COVID challenges include reduced revenue and volunteerism.
9. B Corps represent a growing trend in socially responsible business.

Chapters:

00:00 The Role of Not-for-Profits in Society

05:15 Challenges and Opportunities in the Charity Sector

10:08 Adopting Business Models in Not-for-Profits

15:06 Governance and Capability in Charities

20:25 Social Enterprises and Merging Opportunities

25:18 Collaborative Solutions in Community Broadcasting

27:04 The Importance of Sustainable Revenue

28:59 The Rise of B Corporations and Social Responsibility

31:11 Governance and Effective Leadership in Nonprofits

33:22 The Reality of Nonprofit Work and Organizational Capacity

35:36 Funding Challenges and Opportunities for Charities

37:54 Navigating Post-COVID Challenges in the Charity Sector

39:33 Accidental Retirement: A New Perspective on Career Transitions

41:10 Policy Recommendations for the Charity Sector

@kerrcapital

Thanks for listening.  Visit the Owner To Owner Podcast website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show.

Search @ownertoownerpodcast on your favourite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes.

Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business.

[email protected]

www.ownertoownerpodcast.com.au

@Michael Kerr welcomes @David Brudenell Executive Director from @decidr.ai discuss the challenges and opportunities for Australian SMEs in adopting AI strategies. 

They explore the National AI Readiness Index launched by Decidr,  the importance of system design, and how AI can transform small businesses. The conversation delves into the potential of AI to provide #SMEs with the equivalent of thousands of employees, the role of agentic platforms, and the need for businesses to adapt to the fast-paced AI landscape.

Takeaways:

• SMEs need a system built for action, not just belief
• Most businesses lack a plan to integrate AI effectively
• AI can provide SMEs with the equivalent of thousands of employees
• System design is crucial for successful AI integration
• AI is a horizontal technology that thrives on context
• Agentic platforms can unshackle businesses from administrative tasks
• AI can transform hospitality by handling bookings and customer service
• SMEs have the most to gain from AI but are at risk of being outpaced
• AI can help businesses scale and become more resilient

@kerrcapital

Thanks for listening.  Visit the Owner To Owner Podcast website to subscribe, listen back, or check out any resources or information mentioned on the show.

Search @ownertoownerpodcast on your favourite podcast player to subscribe and listen to the episodes.

Reach out to Michael Kerr via the website if you need personal assistance or advice for your small business.

[email protected]

www.ownertoownerpodcast.com.au