Macro N Cheese

Pakistan's False Dawn and the Beginning of History with Aqdas Afzal


Listen Later

A false dawn is a promising situation which comes to nothing. This is how Aqdas Afzal describes the situation in his native Pakistan and India at the end of the Raj.

“The point to remember here, Steve, is that the British were in India not to govern. They were in India to extract surplus and to maintain what they called law and order. And so the British left without giving the local people any taste or mechanism for bringing about accountability or democracy. But they did leave behind these two very, almost draconian institutions for keeping law and order. And because of these two institutions - these two state institutions that the British left behind - in the case of Pakistan, the first 25 years of Pakistan's history was complete chaos.”


Aqdas talks to Steve about the chaos of partition – a humanitarian crisis. Remember, Pakistan was not only separated from India, but it was also cleaved from its own Eastern wing, now known as Bangladesh. The generation that sacrificed and struggled to gain independence was hoping for a bright future. That was the false dawn.


Pakistan fell into the lap of neoliberal thinking because of the Cold War, as Aqdas explains it. When the Soviets entered Afghanistan, the military government took over in Pakistan, cozying up with the US defense establishment. Pakistani policy makers began to sound like the godparents of the neoliberal project, Thatcher and Reagan.


The interview covers the destructive role of the IMF, World Bank, and WTO – what Steve refers to as the evil trinity. No matter how many of our guests talk about them, there is always more outrage to be uncovered in their manipulation of the economies of the global South.


Steve and Aqdas discuss Francis Fukuyama’s concept of “the end of history.” With the collapse of the USSR, liberal democracy and capitalism were expected to be the final stage of human evolution, leaving no other pathway for developing nations. Aqdas counters with the notion that history is not linear.


“Russia is a country that went through shock therapy, that was undertaken by experts coming from the World Bank and the IMF. These experts are basically telling Russia how to open its economy, how to change over from socialism to a market-based economy. The same Russia today is challenging the might of capitalist countries like Britain, United States, Germany.”


He calls this the beginning of history.


Aqdas Afzal finished his undergraduate and first master's degree in Political Science from Ohio State University, then returned to his native Pakistan. After working there for five years he won the Fulbright scholarship for his second master’s and PhD in Economics from UMKC. He teaches at Habib University in Karachi and writes a monthly op-ed in Dawn, a leading English language newspaper there.


@AqdasAfzal on Twitter

...more
View all episodesView all episodes
Download on the App Store

Macro N CheeseBy Steven D Grumbine

  • 4.9
  • 4.9
  • 4.9
  • 4.9
  • 4.9

4.9

141 ratings


More shows like Macro N Cheese

View all
Jacobin Radio by Jacobin

Jacobin Radio

1,397 Listeners

Ralph Nader Radio Hour by Ralph Nader

Ralph Nader Radio Hour

1,191 Listeners

The Electronic Intifada Podcast by The Electronic Intifada

The Electronic Intifada Podcast

307 Listeners

The Katie Halper Show by Katie Halper

The Katie Halper Show

1,478 Listeners

The Dig by Daniel Denvir

The Dig

1,524 Listeners

Economic Update with Richard D. Wolff by Democracy at Work - Richard D. Wolff

Economic Update with Richard D. Wolff

1,964 Listeners

Upstream by Upstream

Upstream

1,781 Listeners

Citations Needed by Nima Shirazi and Adam Johnson

Citations Needed

3,881 Listeners

Empire Files by Empire Files

Empire Files

738 Listeners

Useful Idiots with Katie Halper and Aaron Maté by Useful Idiots, LLC

Useful Idiots with Katie Halper and Aaron Maté

4,420 Listeners

Debunking Economics - the podcast by Steve Keen & Phil Dobbie

Debunking Economics - the podcast

43 Listeners

Bad Faith by Briahna Joy Gray

Bad Faith

2,682 Listeners

The Socialist Program with Brian Becker by The Socialist Program

The Socialist Program with Brian Becker

529 Listeners

Lever Time by The Lever

Lever Time

524 Listeners

The Chris Hedges Report by Chris Hedges

The Chris Hedges Report

246 Listeners