This is one of Peter's favorite conversations. Pastor Paul VanderKlay is incredibly thoughtful, sincere, and open. He brings meaningful conversation beyond the walls of his church in California. Paul became a well-known YouTuber for his faith-based commentary on the philosophy of Jordan Peterson. Paul's interest in sharing ideas among people who come from diverse backgrounds and beliefs inspired him to develop a conversation strategy called "Estuary" with his colleague, Pastor John Van Donk. Estuary groups now exist online and at locations around the world.

Paul joined Peter Boghossian for a Spectrum Street Epistemology conversation in London. They explore topics related to the curiosities each has about the limits of the other's beliefs. Peter, an atheist, aims to understand Paul's perception of heaven, the value of non-Christian religions, and the importance of spiritual health. Paul is curious about the fissure in the atheist community, how an atheist would respond to a question from God, and if atheism would be necessary in a world without pain. Various claims provide moments of reflection for both gentlemen in this profoundly honest conversation.

Pastor Paul VanderKlay serves the Living Stones CRC (Christian Reformed Church) in Sacramento, California. His podcast is available on YouTube and in audio format on various podcast platforms.

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Watch this episode on YouTube.