IBrian Bush is a pastor who knows what it's like to lead a church drowning in debt with no clear path forward. As a church leader and someone who works with Ramsey Solutions, he's helped countless ministry families and churches move from financial chaos to clarity. Brian understands that managing church finances isn't just about numbers—it's about stewarding God's resources well so you can do the ministry work you're actually called to do.

What You'll Learn

• How to shift from budget overwhelm to simple, clear financial steps that actually work
• Why hiding your church's financial reality keeps people from engaging in the mission
• The one thing most churches are spending money on without even realizing it
• How transparency with your congregation builds trust instead of creating problems
• Why growing your church might be the best budget solution you're overlooking

Key Quotes

• "If they're going to question it, they're already thinking about it. And they're filling in the blanks on their own."
• "God put us in this position to equip the saints. Now the saints need to go do the saintly thing and let's get them inviting people to church and loving on them."
• "If you can't equip the budget, you can't do the ministry."
• "God does do blessings, but he's also given us a brain and a format to where we can go do better and be a good steward with what we have."
• "When you start writing everything down, it really helps you understand the little things. You might be spending money on things that you didn't even realize you were spending money on."

Practical Takeaways

• Start a quarterly business meeting where you share your church's financial reality with your congregation—show them what came in and where it went
• Hire a bookkeeper outside your church to bring accountability and peace of mind to your financial reporting
• Write down your budget line by line, starting simple: building costs, administrative costs, programs, staff, mission and outreach
• Stop spending on anything that's not written in your budget—this single decision will bring clarity and freedom
• Ask your congregation how you can reach more families in your community instead of trying to shoulder all the growth yourself

Resources Mentioned

• Ramsey Plus (site license for churches)
• Financial Peace University
• Ramsey Solutions Church Resources - Call 1-800-22-PEACE or 615-850-1388

Connecting with Pastor Brian Bush

• Phone: 615-850-1388 (direct line at Ramsey Solutions)
• Church Email: [email protected]
• Church Resources: 1-800-22-PEACE

Brian welcomes your questions and says if he doesn't know the answer, he knows someone who does.

Missionary Spotlight: Sara Whitehurst in Thailand

This episode featured Sara Whitehurst, who has been serving as a missionary in Thailand for 13 years. Sara works at an after-school community center in northern Thailand, teaching English and sharing the gospel. She recently helped launch a church in her village and has seen several people come to faith and get baptized. Learn more about Sara's ministry and how you can support her at pastorsandmoney.com/spotlight.

If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, share, and leave a review — it helps us get the word out and invite more people into these conversations.

Connect with Pastors & Money

Email: [email protected]

Instagram/Facebook: @pastorsandmoney

Website: pastorsandmoney.com/podcast

The Pastors & Money Podcast helps pastors, ministry leaders, and churches start thriving financially using money as a tool to fuel God's mission in our churches and families.

Want to be a guest on Pastors & Money Podcast? Send Joy Hunt a message on PodMatch: https://www.podmatch.com/hostdetailpreview/pastorsandmoney

In episode 12 of the Pastors & Money Podcast, we sit down with Dave Ramsey Expert & Crossroads Church Pastor Brian Bush to discuss how to build a healthy church budget. The episode also covers Brian's mindset shift regarding churches and budgeting, common budgeting mistakes churches make, key components of a healthy church budget, dreaming BIG with God and your church budget, the 5 budgeting expenses of most American churches, and keeping church budgets in proper balance. Listeners are encouraged to integrate faith into their budgets and dream big in their obedience to God's calling.

• Stop Overthinking Church Budgets
• Common Mistakes Churches Make in Their Budgets
• Key Components of a Healthy Church Budget
• Dreaming Big with God & Your Church Budget
• The 5 Budgeting Expenses of Most American Churches & Keeping Them in Proper Balance

Resources:

• Crossroads Church website: mycrchurch.tv
• Brian Bush on Instagram: @bbushtn

If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, share, and leave a review — it helps us get the word out and invite more people into these conversations.

Connect with Pastors & Money

Email: [email protected]

Instagram/Facebook: @pastorsandmoney

Website: pastorsandmoney.com/podcast

The Pastors & Money Podcast helps pastors, ministry leaders, and churches start thriving financially using money as a tool to fuel God's mission in our churches and families.

Want to be a guest on Pastors & Money Podcast? Send Joy Hunt a message on PodMatch: https://www.podmatch.com/hostdetailpreview/pastorsandmoney

Strategic Planning & Faith: Implementing Your Church's Vision - Part 2 with Bryan Blackford

In episode 11 of the Pastors & Money Podcast, we continue our discussion with Bryan Blackford on strategic planning for churches. Building on the previous episode, Bryan shares valuable insights on implementing and maintaining a strategic plan for your church, avoiding common financial pitfalls, and the importance of diverse involvement and clear communication. The episode also covers effective ways to measure success, the need for periodic reviews, and practical advice for ministry leaders struggling to align finances with their church's vision. Listeners are encouraged to integrate faith into their plans and maintain obedience to God's calling.

00:00 Introduction to the Pastors & Money Podcast00:41 Interview with Bryan Blackford: Implementing Strategic Plans00:57 Biblical Wisdom and Faith in Strategic Planning02:28 Engaging with the Podcast Community03:20 Recap of Previous Episode with Bryan Blackford04:32 Common Financial Pitfalls in Strategic Planning08:32 Effective Communication of Strategic Plans11:50 Measuring Success and Making Course Corrections18:01 Advice for Pastors on Aligning Finances with Vision20:49 Connecting with Bryan Blackford and Conclusion

Resources:

The Ministry Geek website: theministrygeek.comMinistry Geek newsletterBryan Blackford on Instagram: @bryanblackfordBryan Blackford on X: @bryanblackford

Interview Transcript: Implementing Your Church's Strategic Plan: Insights from Bryan Blackford

Avoiding Financial Pitfalls in Strategic Plan Implementation

[00:04:59] Bryan Blackford: One of the common mistakes churches make when implementing a strategic plan is not communicating it enough. Strategic planning isn't a "set it and forget it" process. It should be ongoing, not just achieving goals but also encouraging generosity. Keep the plan in front of your congregation, tell success stories, and show how lives are changing.

Another pitfall is not involving a diverse group of people in the planning process. While it's common for a small group to lead the process, it's crucial to involve influential people in your ministry. These are the individuals who, through their time, talent, and treasure, will determine the plan's success.

[00:06:59] Joy Suzanne: You want their input and their ownership so they can champion the plan to the congregation.

[00:07:05] Bryan Blackford: Exactly. You need two things from your influential leaders: input at the front end and buy-in at the back end.

Communicating Your Strategic Plan to the Congregation

[00:08:00] Bryan Blackford: Effective communication involves clear, consistent messaging through every available channel. Use your Sunday sermons, newsletters, social media, and town hall meetings. I call this the "every Sunday, every newsletter" approach. At the very least, reference your vision or goals in every communication.

As ministry leaders, we might feel like we're over-communicating, but our congregation isn't there every week. They might only hear it once or twice a month. It's important to be creative and find different ways to say the same thing.

[00:09:59] Don't be afraid of over-communicating. We don't shy away from this during capital campaigns, so why should we when it comes to our strategic plan?

The Importance of Repetition in Communication

[00:10:59] Joy Suzanne: It's like learning a language. People need to hear it repeatedly to internalize it.

[00:11:05] Bryan Blackford: Exactly. For those who attend every week, hearing the vision repeatedly reaffirms why they're there and why they're serving. Communication isn't just for those who may not know your vision; it's also for those who can give the elevator pitch at a moment's notice.

Measuring the Success of Your Strategic Plan

[00:11:59] Bryan Blackford: Measuring success is highly ministry-specific and depends on the goals you set.

Bryan Blackford is the "Ministry Geek" who helps churches turn big dreams into actionable plans. With years of experience guiding ministry leaders through strategic planning, he understands that vision without a plan is just a wish—and that the right plan can transform how your church serves its community and stewards its resources.

Timeline

00:00 Introduction to the Pastors & Money Podcast

00:41 Interview with Bryan Blackford: Implementing Strategic Plans

00:57 Biblical Wisdom and Faith in Strategic Planning

02:28 Engaging with the Podcast Community

03:20 Recap of Previous Episode with Bryan Blackford

04:32 Common Financial Pitfalls in Strategic Planning

08:32 Effective Communication of Strategic Plans

11:50 Measuring Success and Making Course Corrections

18:01 Advice for Pastors on Aligning Finances with Vision

20:49 Connecting with Bryan Blackford and Conclusion

What You'll Learn

• How to stop feeling overwhelmed by your church's vision and start breaking it into steps you can actually take
• Why the people you involve in planning matters just as much as the plan itself
• The secret to keeping your congregation engaged with your vision (hint: you're probably not communicating it enough)
• When to know it's time to refresh your strategic plan—and why waiting too long costs you momentum
• How to measure what truly matters in your ministry, beyond just attendance and giving

Key Quotes

• "Strategic planning isn't a 'set it and forget it' process. It should be ongoing, not just achieving goals but also encouraging generosity."
• "You need two things from your influential leaders: input at the front end and buy-in at the back end."
• "Don't be afraid of over-communicating. We don't shy away from this during capital campaigns, so why should we when it comes to our strategic plan?"
• "If our God is a God of fresh starts, sometimes our plans need fresh starts too."
• "Everything else flows from vision."

Practical Takeaways

• Start with the clearest articulation of your ministry's vision you can muster—write it down in one simple sentence this week
• Identify 3-5 influential people in your ministry (those who give their time, talent, and treasure) and invite them into your planning conversation
• Choose one communication channel you already use regularly (sermon, newsletter, social media) and reference your vision in it consistently
• If you haven't reviewed your strategic plan in over three years, schedule time in the next month to evaluate whether it still fits where your ministry is headed

Resources

The Ministry Geek website: theministrygeek.com

Ministry Geek newsletter

Bryan Blackford on Instagram: @bryanblackford

Bryan Blackford on X: @bryanblackford

Connecting with Bryan Blackford

• Website: theministrygeek.com
• Bryan Blackford on Instagram: @bryanblackford
• Bryan Blackford on X: @bryanblackford

If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, share, and leave a review — it helps us get the word out and invite more people into these conversations.

Connect with Pastors & Money

Email: [email protected]

Instagram/Facebook: @pastorsandmoney

Website: pastorsandmoney.com/podcast

The Pastors & Money Podcast helps pastors, ministry leaders, and churches start thriving financially using money as a tool to fuel God's mission in our churches and families.

Want to be a guest on Pastors & Money Podcast? Send Joy Hunt a message on PodMatch: https://www.podmatch.com/hostdetailpreview/pastorsandmoney

Bryan Blackford has walked the ministry journey from multiple angles—as a teacher, Christian school principal, and executive director of a large church. Now he helps ministries and ministry leaders grow through strategic planning, governance consulting, and one-on-one coaching. As a Ramsey Preferred Coach, he also guides people in managing their finances and building wealth. Bryan's heart is to help churches move from firefighting mode to focused, mission-driven growth.

Timeline

• 00:00 Introduction to Pastors & Money Podcast
• 00:36 Episode Overview and Listener Feedback
• 02:00 Spotlight on Steve and Julie Kramer
• 05:36 Interview with Bryan Blackford Begins
• 06:20 Bryan's Ministry Background and Strategic Planning
• 08:36 Importance of Strategic Planning in Churches
• 14:03 Aligning Strategic Plans with Mission and Vision
• 17:27 Success Stories of Strategic Planning
• 0:41 Finances and Strategic Planning
• 23:48 Balancing Spiritual Mission with Financial Considerations
• 28:47 Conclusion and Next Episode Teaser
• 
  

What You'll Learn

• How to shift from constantly putting out fires to creating a clear path forward for your church
• Why people give to vision and mission, not to institutions—and what that means for your ministry
• The three simple questions that transform how you think about your church's future
• How strategic planning can actually improve your church's financial health (not just manage it)
• Why seminary doesn't always prepare us for the practical leadership decisions that make or break ministry effectiveness

Key Quotes

• "The stewardship issue rests on the ownership issue. The more you can encourage people to be owners in your ministry, the more they're going to give to your ministry."
• "People give to mission, people give to vision, people do not give to institutions."
• "The challenge for any ministry leader is always to determine for yourself what's urgent and what's important. If you're not intentional about it, you tend to only focus on the urgent at the expense of what's important."
• "You can't over-communicate vision and mission. It's so important, it's worth it."
• "If you're inside the Coke bottle, you can't read the label." (quoting Michael Hyatt)

Practical Takeaways

• Ask yourself these three questions about your church: Where are we now? Where are we going? How are we going to get there?
• Look at your last three leadership meetings—how much time did you spend on urgent firefighting versus important long-term planning? Schedule dedicated time this month to focus on the important.
• Review one ministry or program in your church and ask: Does this align with our mission and vision, or is it just something we've always done?
• Have an honest conversation with your leadership team about whether you need an outside perspective to help you see what you can't see from inside your own ministry.

Resources

• The Ministry Geek (theministrygeek.com) - Bryan Blackford's website where he offers resources for ministry leaders
• Vision First Budgeting (https://pastorsandmoney.com/ep001-vision-first-budgeting-for-churches/)

Connecting with Bryan Blackford

• Website: theministrygeek.com
• Bryan serves as a consultant for strategic planning, governance, and generosity campaigns
• He also offers one-on-one coaching for ministry leaders
• Ramsey Preferred Coach for financial coaching

Don't miss Part 2! In Episode 11, Bryan shares the five keys to successfully implementing your church's strategic plan.

If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, share, and leave a review — it helps us get the word out and invite more people into these conversations.

Connect with Pastors & Money

Email: [email protected]

Instagram/Facebook: @pastorsandmoney

Website: pastorsandmoney.com/podcast

The Pastors & Money Podcast helps pastors, ministry leaders, and churches start thriving financially using money as a tool to fuel God's mission in our churches and families.

Want to be a guest on Pastors & Money Podcast? Send Joy Hunt a message on PodMatch: https://www.podmatch.com/hostdetailpreview/pastorsandmoney

Show notes

In this episode, I continue my conversation with Michelle Brown, an entrepreneur and enrolled agent, discussing how to hire the right financial professionals and implement proper accounting practices for churches. We share relevant insights from an interview with Rick Ross on the Influence Podcast discussing common financial mistakes made by churches. The spotlight features missionary Lauren Becker, who talks about her work in Thailand. This episode also emphasizes the importance of personal finance in ministry.

00:00 Introduction to Pastors & Money Podcast

00:36 Weekly Insights and Financial Mistakes in Churches

02:09 Personal Journey and Encouragement for Pastors

03:21 Spotlight on Missionary Lauren Becker

05:25 Heart Behind the Pastors & Money Podcast

08:36 Interview with Financial Expert Michelle Brown

15:17 Practical Advice for Church Financial Management

23:21 Resources and Community for Church Finances

27:37 Closing Remarks and How to Connect

Resources from this Episode:

The Influence Podcast: The Business Side of the Assemblies of God

Missionary Spotlight: Lauren Becker (Thailand)

Michelle Brown's website: churchfinances.org

Intro to Church Finances Course: introtochurchfinances.com

Facebook group: Church Bookkeeping and Clergy Tax Group

Email contact: [email protected]

Podcast: The Church Finance and Minister Tax Podcast

Full Transcript:

Episode Introduction

Joy Suzanne: Welcome to the Pastors & Money Podcast. I'm Joy Suzanne Hunt, pastor and financial coach, bringing you conversations about personal finance, church finance, and how we disciple our churches in the areas of finance and stewardship. You can find the episode show notes and more at pastorsandmoney.com. And here's the show.

Joy Suzanne: Hello there. I'm Joy Suzanne Hunt, and this is episode number nine of the podcast, and it is Thursday, July 18th, 2024 as I record this. Today's interview is part two of my conversation with Michelle Brown. Michelle shares valuable insights on hiring the right financial professionals and implementing proper accounting practices for churches. So that's coming up in the interview section.

Common Financial Mistakes in Churches

Joy Suzanne: Last week I was listening to the Influence Podcast and there was a great interview with Rick Ross on the Business Side of the Assemblies of God. The beginning speaks more to that particular organization, but even if you're not an AG pastor or church, this is a great episode to listen to.

Towards the second half of the episode, Ross talks about some of the most common financial mistakes that churches make. And they'll sound familiar to us. There are things we talk about here all the time, right? Number one, lack of planning, not having a budget. He says, God expects us to be good stewards, which means we have to have a plan. Looking into your checking account to see how much is in there with no thought to future bills and needs is not a plan. I love how he describes a budget as a pre-spending guide. Going through the budgeting process, think about this: how do we believe we can honor God best with the finances we've been trusted with?

And then mistake number two is having only one person controlling the money. He says "none of us were made by God to be in total control of anything." So definitely go check out that episode and I'll include the link in the show notes as well. [Influence Podcast: The Business Side of the Assemblies of God]

Diverse Skills in Ministry

Joy Suzanne: Yesterday, I was having a conversation with one of my lead pastors about how all these seemingly random skills and experiences I've picked up, or gone out and learned for past jobs or businesses or hobbies or projects all seem to be coming together in the work that I'm getting to do for our church right now. So for those of you who are listening to this, and you're working another job outside your ministr...

Show notes

Michelle Brown is an enrolled agent, certified nonprofit accounting professional, and entrepreneur who has spent over a decade serving churches through financial guidance. As someone who has worked on church staff as a director of finance and now helps numerous churches through her business, Michelle understands both the heart of ministry and the practical realities of keeping church doors open through wise financial stewardship.

• 00:00 Introduction to Pastors & Money Podcast
• 00:36 Weekly Insights and Financial Mistakes in Churches
• 02:09 Personal Journey and Encouragement for Pastors
• 03:21 Spotlight on Missionary Lauren Becker
• 05:25 Heart Behind the Pastors & Money Podcast
• 08:36 Interview with Financial Expert Michelle Brown
• 15:17 Practical Advice for Church Financial Management
• 23:21 Resources and Community for Church Finances
• 27:37 Closing Remarks and How to Connect

What You'll Learn

• How to hire a church bookkeeper who actually understands ministry finances (even if you don't know much about finances yourself)
• Why the three questions Michelle shares can help you spot whether someone truly knows church accounting
• The difference between outsourcing and hiring in-house, and when each makes sense for your church
• How to protect your church from IRS trouble by getting your organizing documents right
• Why your pastor probably shouldn't be managing the church finances (and what to do instead)

Key Quotes

• "If I know more than my bookkeeper, they should not be my bookkeeper."
• "Are you seriously being wise stewards of God's finances if you're not willing to spend the money to make sure that you're in compliance so you can keep your church doors open?"
• "Never give the IRS more money than they're legally due. And never give Satan a doorway in."
• "The pastor's job is not to manage the finances. The pastor's job is to shepherd the flock, to take care of the church, to spread the gospel."
• "You could only get out of a computer system the information that you put in. So you've got to make sure that you're putting it in correctly."

Practical Takeaways

• Ask these three questions when interviewing a potential church bookkeeper: What makes minister taxes unique? How does housing allowance work? What's the difference between restricted and designated funds? If they can't answer clearly, keep looking.
• Check your church's organizing documents to make sure they include the dissolution clause and purpose clause that the IRS requires for 501(c)(3) compliance.
• Consider outsourcing your bookkeeping if you don't have someone qualified in-house. Michelle breaks down how it can actually save you money while ensuring things are done correctly.
• If you have a volunteer or staff member doing your books but things aren't quite right, get them proper training in church-specific finances rather than expecting them to figure it out on their own.

Resources from this Episode:

• The Influence Podcast: The Business Side of the Assemblies of God
• Missionary Spotlight: Lauren Becker (Thailand)
• Michelle Brown's website: churchfinances.org
• Intro to Church Finances Course: introtochurchfinances.com
• Facebook group: Church Bookkeeping and Clergy Tax Group
• Email contact: [email protected]
• Podcast: The Church Finance and Minister Tax Podcast

Connecting with Michelle Brown

• Website: churchfinances.org
• Course waiting list: introtochurchfinances.com
• Email: [email protected]
• Facebook Group: Church Bookkeeping and Clergy Tax Group (answer the screening questions to join)
• Podcast: The Church Finance and Minister Tax Podcast

If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, share, and leave a review — it helps us get the word out and invite more people into these conversations.

Connect with Pastors & Money

Email: [email protected]

Instagram/Facebook: @pastorsandmoney

Website: pastorsandmoney.com/podcast

The Pastors & Money Podcast helps pastors, ministry leaders, and churches start thriving financially using money as a tool to fuel God's mission in our churches and families.

Want to be a guest on Pastors & Money Podcast? Send Joy Hunt a message on PodMatch: https://www.podmatch.com/hostdetailpreview/pastorsandmoney

Michelle Brown is an enrolled agent, certified nonprofit accounting professional, and the owner of a bookkeeping and tax firm that specializes exclusively in church finance. After owning a Christian bookstore, God called her back to school in her early forties to get her accounting degree and serve His church. What makes Michelle unique is that even in the world of taxes and compliance, her heart beats for the gospel—she's on a mission to protect churches so they can keep their doors open and continue spreading the good news without the IRS knocking.

What You'll Learn

• Why church finances are completely different from regular business accounting (and why your regular CPA might not know this)
• How to avoid the most common payroll mistakes that get churches in serious trouble with the IRS
• Why being a good steward means investing in qualified help, not just finding the cheapest option
• The surprising IRS requirements you might not know about—like why your church actually needs a budget
• How to ensure your staff is fairly compensated while staying compliant with IRS guidelines
• 
  

Key Quotes

• "Stewardship for churches is so much more than just about the money. It's not how much you're spending—it's how wisely are you spending those funds."
• "We can't spread the gospel if the IRS is knocking on our door. Even if a church passes an audit, the stigma within the community has already done its damage."
• "My God is not a cheap God. He doesn't want our leftovers. So we don't need to be seeking for the least out there."
• "Culture is always driven by three things: the stories you tell, the heroes you make, and the things you celebrate. This is true when it comes to our finances and generosity."
• "You can't make heroes out of individuals when it comes to money, but if you can't make a hero out of an individual, make heroes out of the group."
• 
  

Practical Takeaways

• Check your payroll setup today: If you have ordained, licensed, or commissioned ministers on staff, make sure Social Security and Medicare taxes are NOT being withheld from their paychecks. This is actually illegal and one of the biggest ways churches get in trouble.
• Create a budget if you don't have one: Start simple—look at your last three years of income and expenses, put them in a spreadsheet, and create basic categories. Remember, budgets are fluid and can change, but the IRS requires one for 501(c)3 qualification.
• Evaluate your professional help: Are you working with someone who specializes in church finance and clergy taxes? If not, it might be time to seek out qualified help—saving money upfront could cost you much more in penalties later.
• Celebrate generosity in your church: This week, share one story about how giving made ministry possible—whether it's scholarships for camp, curriculum for kids, or the volunteers who show up faithfully.

Timeline

00:00 Introduction to Pastors & Money Podcast

00:44 Interview Preview: Michelle Brown on IRS Compliance

01:16 Creating a Generosity Culture in Your Church

03:25 Personal News

05:07 Ministry Spotlight: Rachel Mullins in Honduras

09:54 Interview with Michelle Brown: Church Finance Insights

13:36 Understanding Church and Ministerial Taxes

22:48 Ensuring Financial Compliance and Transparency

25:34 Best Practices for Church Budgeting and Compensation

35:02 Conclusion and Next Episode Preview

Resources from this Episode

• Rachel Mullins, Missionary to Honduras
• Summer Soak Devos with CityWide Mosaic
• Church Salary Reports
• Michelle Brown, EA: ChurchFinances.org or [email protected]
• Intro to Church Finances Course
• Church Bookkeeping and Clergy Tax Group on Facebook
• Church Finance and Minister Tax Podcast

Connecting with Michelle Brown

• Website: churchfinances.org
• Course Waiting List: introtochurchfinances.com
• Facebook Group: Church Bookkeeping and Clergy Tax Group (2400+ members)
• Email: [email protected]
• Podcast: Church Finance and Minister Tax Podcast

If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe, share, and leave a review — it helps us get the word out and invite more people into these conversations.

Connect with Pastors & Money

Email: [email protected]

Instagram/Facebook: @pastorsandmoney

Website: pastorsandmoney.com/podcast

The Pastors & Money Podcast helps pastors, ministry leaders, and churches start thriving financially using money as a tool to fuel God's mission in our churches and families.

Want to be a guest on Pastors & Money Podcast? Send Joy Hunt a message on PodMatch: https://www.podmatch.com/hostdetailpreview/pastorsandmoney

Episode Show Notes

Leading Churches to Financial Freedom with Pastor Brian Bush

In episode 7 of the Pastors and Money Podcast, host Joy Suzanne Hunt interviews Pastor Brian Bush from Antioch, Tennessee. They discuss how Brian's church became debt-free, including the initial struggles, steps taken to get families financially healthy, and the eventual sale of the church building to clear the debt. Emphasizing transparency, community support, and faith, they explore the impact of becoming debt-free, particularly during the COVID-19 pandemic. Brian shares practical advice for churches struggling with debt and the importance of trusting God's timing. The episode also highlights the significance of having external support for church leaders and ensuring that financial decisions align with scriptural principles.

00:00 Introduction to the Pastors and Money Podcast

01:03 Dealing with Complainers in Ministry

04:36 Personal News and Relationship Building

06:26 Engaging with the Audience

07:15 Interview with Pastor Brian Bush

08:02 Pastor Brian Bush's Ministry Journey

12:35 Facing Church Debt Challenges

14:48 Communicating Vision and Building Trust

19:13 God's Opportunities in Difficult Situations

29:10 Overcoming Financial Challenges

29:35 Faith and Provision

30:54 Journey to Debt Freedom

32:31 Community Impact and Generosity

34:41 Debt-Free Philosophy

39:52 Pandemic and Ministry Adaptations

45:23 Practical Steps for Debt-Free Churches

51:48 Final Thoughts and Resources

Resources

Crossroads Church in Antioch, TN

Ramsey+ Membership

Financial Peace/Ramsey+ Site License for Churches

Daily Inspiration from Pastor Brian on Facebook

Full Transcript

[00:00:00]

Podcast Introduction

Joy Suzanne: Welcome to the Pastors and Money Podcast. I'm Joy Suzanne Hunt, Pastor and Financial Coach, bringing you conversations about personal finance, church finance, and how we disciple our churches in the areas of finance and stewardship. You can find the episode show notes and more at pastorsandmoney.com.

And here's the show.

Hello there. I'm Joy Suzanne Hunt, and this is episode number seven of the podcast, and it is Thursday, June 20th, 2024 as I record this. In the interview today, I'll be chatting with Pastor Brian Bush from Antioch, Tennessee, and he'll be sharing how his church became debt-free. This is such a fun and encouraging conversation, and I'm so excited to share it with all of you. 

So that's coming up in the interview [00:01:00] section.

Dealing with Complainers in Ministry

Joy Suzanne: This week, a common theme I've been hearing on different podcasts and in conversations with other ministry leaders, is dealing with the bad attitudes, the complainers, the naysayers that we often encounter in our ministries. These people they usually really don't like change, or they don't like losing control. 

Some of them are very well intentioned; their heart's in the right place, but their execution is not so great. Some of them are downright manipulative. But for both, the enemy likes to use them to discourage us as leaders. We get frustrated; we get down, or we back off from what the Lord is telling us to do. Don't fall for it. 

So here are a couple of thoughts about when these conflicts come up or when these complainers come to you. 

#1 Address Conflicts Promptly

Number one, make sure to address it right away. Don't let things sit while you try to avoid the conflict. There is a time to show people grace, but if somebody is consistently behaving in a way that is sinful or that is harmful to the church or harmful to themselves, we need [00:02:00] to bring it to that person. Matthew 18 says to first bring it to that person in private. It doesn't say to first avoid it and hope it will go away.

I am the worst here, but we have to model this for our people because it's not how the world handles conflict.

About Our Guest

Pastor Brian Bush serves as the senior pastor of Crossroads Church in Antioch, Tennessee, where he's witnessed God turn an impossible financial situation into a testimony of faithfulness. For 18 years, Brian worked alongside Dave Ramsey helping churches implement biblical stewardship, but nothing prepared him quite like stepping into a church with $1.6 million in debt and only $6 in the bank. As a husband to Terri and father of three sons, Brian brings both pastoral wisdom and real-world experience to conversations about money, ministry, and trusting God through the hard seasons.

What You'll Learn

• How one church went from $1.6 million in debt to complete freedom in just six months—and why the journey started with getting families healthy first, not the building debt
• Why transparency with your congregation builds trust faster than trying to protect them from hard truths
• How constraints can actually spark creativity in ministry instead of shutting it down
• Why churches don't need debt to do ministry—they just need to trust God's timing and provision
• How to shift your thinking about stewardship, leadership, and what's possible when you let God be your provision

Key Quotes

"When we start doing the right things, God will do the other things that we can't."

"When you respect other people enough that you allow them to know the details, they respect you enough to lead them through it."

"Every pastor needs a group of pastors that are outside of his normal sphere."

"How do I know what God can do if I don't let him do it?"

"Running a debt-free church may take a little longer to do all the things that you want to do, but you'll do them a lot longer debt free than you will not being debt free."

Practical Takeaways

Call a church-wide meeting to address financial challenges with complete transparency—people can handle hard truth better than they can handle secrets and uncertainty.

Start with your families first: get them enrolled in Financial Peace or a similar program before tackling the church's debt, because healthy families build healthy churches.

Connect with a group of pastors outside your immediate circle who can speak truth, pray with you, and help carry the weight of leadership when things get heavy.

Cut everything that's not essential and commit to a cash-only approach—if you can't pay for it today, you don't spend it today, and trust God to provide what you truly need.

Resources

• Crossroads Church in Antioch, TN
• Ramsey+ Membership
• Financial Peace/Ramsey+ Site License for Churches
• Daily Inspiration from Pastor Brian on Facebook

Timeline

• 00:00 Introduction to the Pastors and Money Podcast
• 01:03 Dealing with Complainers in Ministry
• 04:36 Personal News and Relationship Building
• 06:26 Engaging with the Audience
• 07:15 Interview with Pastor Brian Bush
• 08:02 Pastor Brian Bush's Ministry Journey
• 12:35 Facing Church Debt Challenges
• 14:48 Communicating Vision and Building Trust
• 19:13 God's Opportunities in Difficult Situations
• 29:10 Overcoming Financial Challenges
• 29:35 Faith and Provision
• 30:54 Journey to Debt Freedom
• 32:31 Community Impact and Generosity
• 34:41 Debt-Free Philosophy
• 39:52 Pandemic and Ministry Adaptations
• 45:23 Practical Steps for Debt-Free Churches
• 51:48 Final Thoughts and Resources

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Connect with Pastors & Money

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Website: pastorsandmoney.com/podcast

The Pastors & Money Podcast helps pastors, ministry leaders, and churches start thriving financially using money as a tool to fuel God's mission in our churches and families.

Want to be a guest on Pastors & Money Podcast? Send Joy Hunt a message on PodMatch: https://www.podmatch.com/hostdetailpreview/pastorsandmoney