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The Alaska Airlines and Hawaiian Airlines merger came with physical and regulatory deadlines that dictated an inflexible 10-month delivery window for digital and design work. With the timeline tied to real-world change, combined design, product, and engineering teams had to build and ship alongside a transformation that was already in motion.

Chris Strahl talks with Noelle Lansford and Forrest Akemann about what it took to deliver a multi-brand experience under that pressure, while respecting the long histories and cultural significance of two iconic airline brands. From foundational decisions around color, typography, and tokens to close collaboration across teams, this conversation offers a realistic look at how systems work gets done when speed is non-negotiable and the stakes are real.

We'll explore:

• What changes when deadlines are tied to physical and regulatory reality?
• Why is merger-driven multi-brand work harder than planned multi-brand?
• How do shared foundations like color, typography, and tokens enable teams to move faster together?

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Guest

Noelle Lansford began her career as an engineer on design system teams before transitioning into design, where she discovered her passion for connecting the technical and human sides of digital product creation. Today, as the founder of Shep, a design systems consultancy that partners with organizations from early-stage startups to Fortune 5 companies, Noelle helps bridge the gap between design, engineering, and business strategy. Her work focuses on creating systems that balance structure with flexibility, prioritize people over process, and deliver lasting business value instead of chasing perfection.

Forrest Akemann is a design systems lead at Hawaiian Airlines, where he has worked since 2019 across product design and design systems. He played a key role in building Hawaiian’s design system and later helped lead the system work through the Alaska–Hawaiian merger, focusing on multi-brand foundations, theming, and system adoption.

Hostt

Chris Strahl is the host of the Patterns podcast and a pioneer in modern digital product design and development. As the co-founder and CEO of Knapsack, he is a leading voice on how AI can fundamentally reshape the way teams design, build, and deliver digital products with a human-centered approach

Sponsor

Sponsored by Knapsack, the design system platform that brings teams together. Learn more at knapsack.cloud.

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In the first episode of Patterns, Chris Strahl sits down with Dave Brown, design leader at Qualtrics, to explore what modern systems thinking looks like in an AI-driven product landscape. Moving beyond traditional notions of software design, the conversation reframes product creation as a shift from a single golden path toward a world where every experience is effectively an edge case. Together, they unpack why context, not features, is becoming the primary design material and how AI is forcing teams to rethink how systems are structured, constrained, and evolved.

Drawing on his experience leading AI and ML initiatives at AWS and now at Qualtrics, Dave explores how designers and builders can shape better outcomes by designing for context, learning loops, and adaptability. The discussion spans designing for AI versus designing with AI, the rise of compound engineering, and the collapse of rigid boundaries between design, product, and engineering. Rather than shipping static features, the future points toward systems that learn continuously, respond in real time, and improve through every interaction.

Key takeaways

• Context is the core design challenge of 2026, shaping how AI systems behave, adapt, and deliver value.
• Product systems are moving from golden paths to infinite edge cases, driven by personalization and real-time decision making.
• Designing for AI means creating learning loops, where systems improve through continuous feedback rather than static rules.
• Compound engineering reframes software creation around systems that get smarter over time, collapsing traditional role boundaries.

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Guest

Dave Brown is a design leader at Qualtrics, where he focuses on AI initiatives and the evolution of the company’s design system. Previously, he spent nearly a decade at Amazon, including six years leading design for AI and machine learning services at AWS. His work centers on building adaptive, scalable product systems, with a particular interest in context, learning loops, and how teams can design systems that get smarter over time.

Host

Chris Stroll is the host of the Patterns podcast and a pioneer in modern digital product design and development. As the co-founder and CEO of Knapsack, he is a leading voice on how AI can fundamentally reshape the way teams design, build, and deliver digital products with a human-centered approach

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As AI compresses the distance between idea and execution, the abstractions that once made design tools necessary are becoming points of friction. In this conversation, Knapsack leaders Chris Strahl, Evan Lovely, and Robin Cannon make the case that the future of digital production starts in the medium products actually ship in, code. They unpack why design systems are infrastructure, not artifacts, how context becomes the critical input for enterprise AI, and why creating directly in code unlocks faster iteration with higher fidelity. This shift changes who gets to create, how teams work together, and what it means to scale ideas instead of just processes.

In this episode, you’ll hear about:

• AI as an enabler of human creativity, not a replacement
• Why prototype-first workflows are breaking down
• How the Intelligent Product Engine supports real product creation
• What it looks like for designers, developers, and product teams to build, refine, and ship together

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Guest

Evan Lovely is the co-founder and CTO of Knapsack

Robin Cannon is the Head of Product at Knapsack

Host

Chris Strahl is co-founder and CEO of Knapsack, host of @TheDSPod, DnD DM, and occasional river guide. You can find Chris on LinkedIn.

Sponsor

Sponsored by Knapsack, the design system platform that brings teams together. Learn more at knapsack.cloud.

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How do teams turn accessibility from individual effort into system wide practice? Chris talks with Anna Thielke, founder and CEO of Mantis and Company, to find out. They explore why representation on system teams leads to better standards, how designing for the edges strengthens products for everyone, and what it takes for accessibility work to spread across large organizations in a sustainable way. Anna also shares how lived experience shapes her perspective and why accessibility becomes more effective when teams view it as shared responsibility rather than a late stage requirement.

Key Takeaways

• Design systems provide the structure needed to scale accessibility across teams.
• Representation on system teams shapes the standards that reach every product.
• Designing for the edges leads to more inclusive and resilient experiences.

View the transcript of this episode.

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Guest

Anna Thielke is an entrepreneur and systems thinker who leads Mantis & Co., a disability-owned accessibility and inclusive design agency. Drawing on 15+ years of experience and her background as a blind, neurodivergent leader, she helps teams build products and cultures that work for everyone. Previously Director of Inclusive Design at CVS Health, Anna is known for blending creativity, honesty, and practicality to move organizations from intention to action.

Host

Chris Strahl is co-founder and CEO of Knapsack, host of @TheDSPod, DnD DM, and occasional river guide. You can find Chris on LinkedIn.

Sponsor

Sponsored by Knapsack, the design system platform that brings teams together. Learn more at knapsack.cloud.

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If you’ve ever struggled to balance perfection with business reality, this episode is for you. In this episode of the Design Systems Podcast, Chris Strahl talks with Noelle Lansford, founder of Shep, about why chasing the “perfect system” often breaks more than it fixes. Drawing on her experience across startups and Fortune 5 companies, Noelle argues that design systems succeed when they serve people and the business—not when they chase architectural purity. She and Chris dig into the realities of relational alignment between design, engineering, and product, the shift from component factories to consulting mindsets, and what AI means for the next generation of design leadership.

Here’s what stood out:

• Perfection shouldn’t be your goal
• Design systems teams should pursue an infrastructure + enablement structure
• Systems of systems thinking works—if the cultural conditions are right
• AI makes iteration faster, which makes human oversight more essential

View the transcript of this episode.

Check out our upcoming events.

If you want to get in touch with the show, ask some questions, or tell us what you think, send us a message over on LinkedIn.

Guest

Noelle Lansford began her career as an engineer on design system teams before transitioning into design, where she discovered her passion for connecting the technical and human sides of digital product creation. Today, as the founder of Shep, a design systems consultancy that partners with organizations from early-stage startups to Fortune 5 companies, Noelle helps bridge the gap between design, engineering, and business strategy. Her work focuses on creating systems that balance structure with flexibility, prioritize people over process, and deliver lasting business value instead of chasing perfection.

Host

Chris Strahl is co-founder and CEO of Knapsack, host of @TheDSPod, DnD DM, and occasional river guide. You can find Chris on LinkedIn.

Sponsor

Sponsored by Knapsack, the design system platform that brings teams together. Learn more at knapsack.cloud.

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In this episode, Chris Strahl talks with Elyse Holladay—staff design engineer at Color Health and host of On Theme—about the evolution of design systems and how AI is reshaping the way we think about abstraction, collaboration, and contribution. They explore what it means to maintain relevance in a landscape where LLMs increasingly influence product development, and reflect on whether design systems are still for people—or for machines. Elyse shares a clear-eyed yet optimistic take on how AI can enhance, rather than replace, the work of design system practitioners.

Key Points:

• Design systems are shifting focus from components to solving collaboration and workflow problems.
• AI isn’t replacing systems—it’s changing how they’re used and what they need to support.
• Smaller teams can move faster by focusing on what’s most valuable, not doing everything.
• Documentation is evolving to prioritize practical guidance over polished presentations.
• Design systems are becoming infrastructure for both humans and AI.

View the transcript of this episode.

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Guest

Elyse Holladay (she/her) is a long-time Design Systems practitioner and speaker, currently the Staff Design Engineer for Color Health's Continuum Design System. She was tapped to start the first Design System team for Indeed, has taught hundreds of hours of technical training content, and has been invited to speak at well-known industry events such as Clarity Conference, CSSConf Berlin, and Frontend Design Conference. She is also the host of On Theme: Design Systems in Depth. She's a technical generalist, off-the-charts extrovert, avid reader, and expat Texan with an armadillo tattoo.

Host

Chris Strahl is co-founder and CEO of Knapsack, host of @TheDSPod, DnD DM, and occasional river guide. You can find Chris on Twitter as @chrisstrahl and on LinkedIn.

Sponsor

Sponsored by Knapsack, the design system platform that brings teams together. Learn more at knapsack.cloud.

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Design systems aren’t just a UI toolkit—they’re the backbone of digital product creation and management. In this episode, engineer and researcher Steve Dodier-Lazaro joins Chris Strahl to unpack why treating design systems like standalone products is holding teams back. They explore what it really takes to scale product design and development in enterprise environments—from shared tooling and token standards to how AI and LLMs can bridge messy, real-world workflows.

In this episode:

• Why design systems are dependencies, not deliverables
• Tools and standards shaping the future of digital production
• How AI will reshape the infrastructure behind design and engineering

View the transcript of this episode.

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If you want to get in touch with the show, ask some questions, or tell us what you think, send us a message over on LinkedIn.

Guest

Steve Dodier-Lazaro is a freelance software engineer specialised in design systems and frontend development based in Seine Saint-Denis, France. Steve is dedicated to advancing the design system tooling ecosystem through his open-source contributions as a community advocate, addon author and contributor to Storybook, and through projects around design token tooling.

Host

Chris Strahl is co-founder and CEO of Knapsack, host of @TheDSPod, DnD DM, and occasional river guide. You can find Chris on Twitter as @chrisstrahl and on LinkedIn.

Sponsor

Sponsored by Knapsack, the design system platform that brings teams together. Learn more at knapsack.cloud.

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What does it take to transform 121 years of automotive legacy into a modern digital ecosystem? Catherine Dubut, Director of Global UX Strategy at Ford Pro, joins Chris Strahl to share how her team is reengineering the organization’s fragmented product landscape into a scalable, unified digital assembly line.

With over 80 legacy sites, 20+ global markets, and deeply siloed teams, the scale and complexity of Ford Pro’s challenge was immense. Catherine explains how her team brought structure to chaos—combining elements from outdated systems, building new foundations where needed, and stitching them together into a single, coherent design system. From establishing governance and cross-functional collaboration to introducing micro frontends and scaling adoption, this episode offers a playbook for modernizing UX at enterprise scale.

Key themes:

• Designing for fleets, not just drivers—multiple users, journeys, and roles per customer
• Replatforming 80+ tools across legacy systems and international business units
• Building a design system through consolidation, extension, and future-proofing
• Using micro frontends to bridge disparate tech stacks across Ford Pro
• Measuring success through design efficiency, team adoption, and developer alignment

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Guest

Catherine Dubut is Director of Global UX Strategy at Ford Pro, the commercial business of Ford Motor Company. She oversees a global team of individual contributors and managers across design, user research, information architecture, and content strategy. Catherine is a seasoned UX leader with a track record of designing impactful experiences, driving UX practice maturity, and digital transformation at dynamic brands at places like Samsung Electronics, REI, and Intuit. Based in Seattle, Catherine’s been involved in design community activities including organizing local events, mentoring underrepresented UX professionals, public speaking, and writing. She enjoys exploring cities, outdoors, architecture, and other adventures with her husband, daughter, and terrier mix rescue.

Host

Chris Strahl is co-founder and CEO of Knapsack, host of @TheDSPod, DnD DM, and occasional river guide. You can find Chris on Twitter as @chrisstrahl and on LinkedIn.

Sponsor

Sponsored by Knapsack, the design system platform that brings teams together. Learn more at knapsack.cloud.

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The design token nerds are taking over the pod! In this episode, guest host Christopher Bloom sits down with Garth Braithwaite, Lead Senior Staff Design Engineer at Adobe, for a deep dive into the inner workings of Spectrum’s design tokens. Garth shares how Adobe manages the complexity of scaling a multi-platform design system, and how thoughtful collaboration across teams builds real value for users.

They get into the weeds on cross-team communication, naming conventions, accessibility, versioning, and Garth’s own front-end manifesto. If you’re building, scaling, or just geeking out over design tokens—this one’s pure gold.

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Guest
Garth Braithwaite is a Lead Senior Staff Design Engineer at Adobe, where he plays a key role in maintaining the Spectrum design system. With a background in both design and engineering, Garth brings a unique perspective to scaling design systems and improving workflows across teams.

Host
Christopher Bloom is a Principal Front-end Engineer at Knapsack. He's a design system nerd, avid mountain biker, and all-around ball of insight and energy.

Sponsor
Sponsored by Knapsack, the digital production platform that brings teams together. Learn more at knapsack.cloud.

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In this episode, TJ Pitre, founder of South Left, joins the podcast to trace the real evolution of digital production — from the early days of Flash and Fireworks to today's dynamic, system-driven workflows. TJ shares his journey bridging design and development, reflects on the rise of modern tools like Figma, and explores the shift toward more connected, production-ready design. Along the way, he breaks down the growing role of the design engineer, the impact of AI on creative workflows, and what the future holds for building smarter, faster digital products.

View the transcript of this episode.

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If you want to get in touch with the show, ask some questions, or tell us what you think, send us a message over on LinkedIn.

Guest

TJ Pitre is the founder of South Left, a boutique front-end agency that lives at the intersection of design and development. With roots in illustration, UI design, and engineering, TJ helps teams transform static ideas into dynamic, production-ready systems. He’s a passionate advocate for design engineering, smarter workflows, and the evolving future of digital production.

Host

Andrew Rohman is EVP of Strategy at Knapsack, where he helps enterprises close the gap between design and code and accelerate digital product delivery at scale. He’s passionate about building better systems, reducing risk, and creating positive change across teams and organizations.

Sponsor
Sponsored by Knapsack, the digital production platform that brings teams together. Learn more at knapsack.cloud.