On this episode, Paul Vallely, a columnist for the Church Times, talks about the papacy of Pope Francis and what his legacy might be.

Pope Francis adopted “a pastoral approach”, he says, “not a dogmatic approach.

“He thought that people, were the centre of the gospel, and he thought that mercy was more important than dogma. He didn’t really change a lot of Catholic teaching, in the sense that he saw dogma as the kind of ideal to which we all aspire. He knew we weren’t perfect or ideal: we were all on a journey and starting very often in a difficult place. He wanted to be there at the start of the journey to accompany people. He wasn’t a liberal: he was a pastor.”

Paul Vallely has also written in the Church Times this week about Pope Francis, after news of his death on Easter Monday, aged 88. Read the article here: https://www.churchtimes.co.uk/articles/2025/25-april/comment/columnists/paul-vallely-pope-francis-was-pastor-to-the-world

Paul Vallely’s book, Untying the Knots: The struggle for the soul of Catholicism, is published by Bloomsbury.

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