John is joined by Pete Wehner—veteran of the Reagan, Bush 41, and Bush 43 administrations turned eloquent Never Trumper—to discuss the once and future president's transformation of the GOP, his perplexing appeal to the Christian Right, and more. Wehner explains why the best summation of Trump’s agenda comes from Michel Caine as Alfred in The Dark Knight (“Some men just want to watch the world burn”); Pete Hegseth’s redemption narrative and invocations of his Lord and savior ring so hollow; and so many Evangelicals are so devoted to Trump in spite of his lack of godly virtues. Wehner and John also harken back to the magical duet of Tracy Chapman's Fast Car by Chapman and Luke Combs at this year's Grammy's, and riff on why the emotional outpouring it triggered was a hopeful sign for our politics and culture.

To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices