Playmakers - The Game Industry Podcast

Jordan interviews Gordon Bellamy, a game industry veteran with over two decades of experience. Gordon is currently a Professor of the Practice of Cinematic Arts at USC and faculty advisor for USC Esports, where he leads DEI&B efforts and career development. He has worked at top companies like EA, Tencent, and THQ, and served as the Executive Director of the International Game Developers Association (IGDA) from August 2010 until July 2012. In this interview, he shares his journey from starting in QA to becoming a leader in business development, advising startups, and teaching at USC. He also offers key insights into networking, managing your reputation, and building a career in the gaming industry.

• The importance of building strong personal connections in the industry
• How to effectively network and build your reputation in the game business
• His transition from designer to business development
• Why it's essential to maintain respect and trust in workplace relationships
• Tips for startups on managing studio culture and navigating industry challenges
• The "I Like, I Wish, What If" feedback framework for effective communication
• How to engage with students and give back to the gaming community

• Learn more about Jordan & Bright Black
• Listen on iTunes | Spotify (Support the show and leave a review)
• Visit www.playmakerspodcast.com for the full blog post and more!

[02:44] Gordon’s early career: From Harvard to EA

[07:00] Transitioning from development to business development at MicroProse

[10:00] Shifting into executive roles at EA and THQ

[12:30] The "I Like, I Wish, What If" feedback framework

[15:20] The role of diversity and inclusion in shaping future game developers

[19:10] Navigating career changes and building long-term success

[23:40] Partnering with developers and maintaining trust

[28:10] Gordon’s mentorship efforts at IGDA and giving back to the industry

[34:20] Building a professional network and reputation in gaming

Learn more and Connect with Gordon Bellamy:

• LinkedIn
• Twitter

Games & companies mentioned:

• Electronic Arts (EA)
• Tencent
• THQ
• IGDA (International Game Developers Association)
• The Wave VR
• Z-Axis Studios (Activision)
• Madden NFL Series (EA)

Jordan interviews Brian Allgeier, a veteran game designer and creative director at Insomniac Games, renowned for his work on classic titles such as Ratchet & Clank, Spyro the Dragon, and the VR game Edge of Nowhere. Brian shares his journey in the AAA game industry, lessons on creative direction, working with large teams, and how to maintain a cohesive creative vision across complex projects. He also highlights some leadership tips from his book, Directing Video Games: 101 Tips for Creative Leaders, which offers practical guidance for both aspiring and seasoned game directors.

• Brian's career journey: from Spyro to Ratchet & Clank and VR gaming
• The role of a creative director in managing game design and storytelling
• Best practices for getting the most out of a game’s mechanics and assets
• How to maintain a cohesive creative vision across large development teams
• Tips on working effectively with teams and leading without dictating
• Lessons from Ratchet & Clank: balancing action, platforming, and storytelling
• The importance of “economy of design”: stretching mechanics for maximum gameplay value
• Key leadership tips from Brian’s book, Directing Video Games: 101 Tips for Creative Leaders

• Learn more about Jordan & Bright Black
• Listen on iTunes | Spotify (Support the show and leave a review)
• Visit www.playmakerspodcast.com for the full blog post and more!

[02:44] Brian’s early career: From Spyro to Ratchet & Clank

[06:00] Maximizing game mechanics and designing with economy in mind

[10:23] Transitioning from artist to creative director at Insomniac Games

[12:30] Guiding players' attention and creating focus in level design

[16:50] Techniques for managing large teams of specialists

[21:00] Working with Mark Cerny and learning about production efficiency

[26:00] Balancing creativity and budget in AAA game development

[30:30] Directing video games: Lessons from Ratchet & Clank and Edge of Nowhere

[34:20] Brian’s advice for aspiring creative leaders in game design

Learn more and Connect with Marc Mencher:

• LinkedIn
• Twitter
• Directing Video Games: 101 Tips for Creative Leaders

Games & companies mentioned:

• Ratchet & Clank series (Insomniac Games)
• Spyro the Dragon (Insomniac Games)
• Edge of Nowhere (Insomniac Games)
• Directing Video Games: 101 Tips for Creative Leaders by Brian Allgeier
• Super Mario 64 (Nintendo)
• Uncharted series (Naughty Dog)
• The Last of Us series (Naughty Dog)
• Diddy Kong Racing (Nintendo)
• Zelda series (Nintendo)
• Titanfall 2 (Respawn Entertainment)
• Final Fantasy series (Square Enix)

Jordan interviews Dave Rohrl, a veteran game designer with 30 years of experience designing and producing online games. Dave has held senior positions at leading companies like Pogo, PopCap (he’s actually Crazy Dave in Plants vs. Zombies), Zynga, and Playdom, overseeing the design of more than 50 games and consulting on countless others. In 2014, Dave founded Mobile Game Doctor, a global network of dozens of experts that helps game developers worldwide improve their free-to-play games and game businesses. Dave shares his insights into the game design process, emphasizing how to achieve 'fun' early in development, the importance of rapid prototyping, and why using rough code and art early on helps reduce design risks.

• Dave’s journey from non-profits to leading game development at top companies
• How to find fun early in the development process
• The importance of fun and player engagement in game design
• Why using rough code and art early on helps reduce design risk
• How to balance creativity, technical implementation, and budget constraints
• Dave's approach to evaluating game prototypes and reducing project risks early
• Aligning game mechanics with user behavior
• Best practices for mobile game development and free-to-play business models

• Learn more about Jordan & Bright Black
• Listen on iTunes | Spotify (Support the show and leave a review)
• Visit www.playmakerspodcast.com for the full blog post and more!

[03:02] Dave’s background: From non-profits to game design

[07:00] Early career at The Learning Company and Pogo

[10:25] Lessons from PopCap and Zynga: The rise of free-to-play gaming

[12:12] Rapid prototyping and the "fail fast" approach

[16:50] Balancing creativity with risk management in game design

[21:20] Working with small, focused teams during pre-production

[22:55] The five fun factors: Building engaging game mechanics

[29:43] Balancing creativity and budget in mobile game development

[34:12] Dave’s advice for designers: Focus on gameplay, not flashy assets

[37:00] Prototype-driven development: Managing design risks and early testing

[41:00] The challenges of "polishing the turd" and when to abandon a game project

[47:40] The role of external feedback: Being the "emperor’s new clothes" guy

[51:50] Working with teams to improve games during different development phases

[54:30] Dave’s thoughts on the evolution of mobile and casual gaming

Learn more and Connect with Dave Rohrl:

• LinkedIn
• Twitter

Games & companies mentioned:

• Plants vs. Zombies (PopCap)
• Peggle (PopCap)
• The Learning Company
• Pogo (Electronic Arts)
• Zynga (FarmVille)
• Playdom (Disney Interactive)
• Sid Meier’s Pirates (MicroProse)
• SimCity (Maxis)
• Star Wars: Commander (Disney Interactive)
• Reader Rabbit (The Learning Company)
• ClueFinders (The Learning Company)
• BoardGameGeek (Online platform)

Jordan interviews Alfonzo Burton, a top-tier designer in UI/UX, and has worked as the Director of UI/UX at Glu and Pocket Gems. He is now the Chief Creative Director at UX Magicians Inc., a San Francisco-based user experience design agency. His expertise has been used in some of the top-grossing mobile games, with several hitting the 100-million-dollar mark. Alfonzo shares his insights on creating effective UX that drives retention and monetization, the importance of testing, why early UX planning can help avoid costly pivots later in development, and more.

• Alfonzo’s journey from web design to UI/UX for games
• The role of UX in driving player retention and monetization
• Key misconceptions about UX design in the gaming industry
• The three pillars of creating a top-grossing game: fun, deep economy, and great UI/UX
• How to balance creativity with proven best practices in UX
• The importance of testing and iterating early in game development
• Why early involvement of UX designers is critical to success
• Differences between UX design in the Western and Asian markets

• Learn more about Jordan & Bright Black
• Listen on iTunes | Spotify (Support the show and leave a review)
• Visit www.playmakerspodcast.com for the full blog post and more!

[03:04] Transitioning from web design to mobile and console game UX

[05:25] Misconceptions about UX and why it’s a process, not just about visuals

[07:56] The three pillars of a hit game: fun, deep economy, and great UI/UX

[10:27] Balancing creativity with risk management and best practices in UX

[12:08] The iterative process of designing a UI and why multiple prototypes matter

[15:23] The importance of involving UX early in the development process

[19:13] Why successful games often struggle to change UI after launch

[22:18] Scalable UX systems: Why some designs work long-term and others fail

[25:14] The importance of testing for UX: Best practices versus innovation

[30:05] Transitioning UX design from mobile to console games

[31:03] Alfonzo’s thoughts and advice on the future of UI/UX

Learn more and Connect with Alfonzo Burton:

• LinkedIn
• Behance

Games & companies mentioned:

• Glu Mobile
• Pocket Gems
• UX Magicians Inc.
• WWE 2K17 (console UX design by UX Magicians)
• Deer Hunter and Dino Hunter (Glu Games)
• Clash Royale (Supercell)
• Game of War and Mobile Strike (Machine Zone)

Jordan interviews Robin Hunicke, an innovative video game artist. Robin was a professor of game design at UC Santa Cruz and also the co-founder of Funomena, a studio focused on creating emotionally engaging and experimental games. She is known for her contributions to games like The Sims and Journey, and is recognized in the industry for her support of independent game development, experimentation in game design, research in dynamic difficulty adjustment, and the advocacy of women within the games industry. Robin shares her unique takes on games as art, approach to game design, emphasizing how games can be used as a medium to evoke emotion, foster empathy, and more.

• Robin's journey into the game industry and her work on The Sims and Journey
• The role of empathy and emotion in game design
• How games can explore complex human emotions such as love, grief, and recovery
• The process of designing games that offer emotional connection between players
• Robin’s approach to game mechanics, dynamics, and aesthetics (MDA) theory
• Her experiences co-founding Funomena and creating games that focus on innovative gameplay
• Robin’s insights into productivity, balancing creative work, and leadership in game design
• The importance of representation and diversity in game development

• Learn more about Jordan & Bright Black
• Listen on iTunes | Spotify (Support the show and leave a review)
• Visit www.playmakerspodcast.com for the full blog post and more!

[03:02] Robin’s early inspirations: from Legos to video games

[07:04] The first Game Jam and being a pioneer for experimental gameplay

[12:00] Early mentors and influences in the game industry

[16:40] Exploring emotion and empathy in game design: Journey and Luna

[20:50] Designing games from the feeling backward: Mechanics, Dynamics, and Aesthetics (MDA)

[25:00] Mistakes, learning, and transformation as central themes in game development

[30:40] Robin’s work on Luna and the emotional depth behind the game's concept

[35:10] The importance of relaxation in game mechanics

[39:00] Lessons from Journey: Creating trust and connection between players

[41:00] Designing games with a focus on community and empathy

[45:00] Robin’s thoughts on the future of games and the importance of diversity in the industry

[48:20] Robin’s productivity tips and how she balances multiple creative projects

[52:00] Final thoughts: Building a fulfilling career in game design and being a leader in the industry

Learn more and Connect with Robin Hunicke:

• LinkedIn
• Twitter

Games & companies mentioned:

• The Sims, My Sims, SimCity(Maxis)
• Journey (Thatgamecompany)
• Luna (Funomena)
• Phenomena (Funomena's new game)
• The Marriage (by Rod Humble)
• Facade (Interactive Storytelling)
• The Witness (Jonathan Blow)
• Horizon Zero Dawn (Guerrilla Games)

Jordan interviews Eric Zimmerman, a veteran game designer, educator, and co-founder of Gamelab, the studio that created the iconic Diner Dash. Eric is currently a professor at the NYU Game Center and has written extensively on game design, including co-authoring the book “Rules of Play” (2004) with Katie Salen. Eric shares his unique perspective on game design as a way of life, emphasizing the importance of flexibility, the use of different frameworks, and the role of creativity in game creation.

• Eric’s journey from painter to game designer and co-founder of Gamelab
• How to foster creativity in teams by designing a company culture that empowers authorship
• The value of game design "frameworks" and the art of game design as a way of being in the world
• The importance of experimentation, collaboration, and being open to different disciplines in design
• Challenges faced by young designers and the role of experience in learning

• Learn more about Jordan & Bright Black
• Listen on iTunes | Spotify (Support the show and leave a review)
• Visit www.playmakerspodcast.com for the full blog post and more!

[03:04] Eric’s background: From painter to game designer

[07:00] The origins of Gamelab and the early days of independent game development

[12:00] Teaching game design; Early days at NYU and working with Frank Lantz

[16:00] The value of frameworks in game design

[21:30] Creating a company culture at Gamelab that fosters ownership and creativity

[25:20] The importance of constraints in fostering creativity

[30:00] The role of experimentation and collaboration in game design

[34:00] Eric’s advice to young designers: Embracing mistakes and the learning process

[37:00] Eric’s thoughts on the future of game design 

Learn more and Connect with Eric Zimmerman:

• Eric Zimmerman
• LinkedIn
• Twitter
• Check out: Rules of Play: Game Design Fundamentals (Mit Press): Salen Tekinbas, Katie, Zimmerman, Eric

Games & companies mentioned:

• Diner Dash (Gamelab)
• Gamelab
• NYU Game Center
• Gigantic Mechanic
• Playmatics
• AreaCode

Jordan interviews Ed Kuehnel, a screenwriter (Lumberjack Man) and game writer who has worked on over fifty video games for publishers such as Disney Interactive, Paramount Digital, Vivendi/Universal, Twisted Pixel Games, Uber Entertainment and Telltale Games, and Ubisoft. Ed shares his experience crafting stories for video games, including Valiant Hearts (which won Best Narrative at the 2014 Game Awards). Ed also shares the powerful frameworks that he finds consistently useful in crafting great in-game tales. He also dives into character development, the challenges of game writing, and lessons from the industry's top studios.

• How Valiant Hearts pushed Ed out of his comedic comfort zone and taught him valuable storytelling lessons
• The “secret sauce” for crafting effective stories
• The importance of character development and storytelling in action-adventure games
• Common storytelling mistakes in games and how to avoid “mission-itis”
• The importance of narrative design and integrating story with gameplay
• Why studios like Telltale Games and Naughty Dog excel in storytelling

• Learn more about Jordan & Bright Black
• Listen on iTunes | Spotify (Support the show and leave a review)
• Visit www.playmakerspodcast.com for the full blog post and more!

01:43 Ed’s journey into game writing

04:52 Ed's early challenges and breakthrough in game writing

07:36 Working on Hunter: The Reckoning and Leisure Suit Larry

11:17 Collaborating with Dave Grossman and learning the "secret sauce"

13:05 Games that influenced Ed's storytelling approach

16:14 The Last of Us and lessons in character development

20:22 Crafting Valiant Hearts and its episodic structure

28:20 Using the "seven easy steps" from Invisible Ink for storytelling

33:05 Narrative design and aligning gameplay with story

37:13 Pitfalls in game writing and character development.

44:44 Common mistakes like “mission-itis” in game stories. 

48:40 Ed’s advice for game writers

Learn more and Connect with Ed Kuehnel:

• LinkedIn
• Twitter
• Work | Ed Kuehnel

Invisible Ink: A Practical Guide to Building Stories that Resonate by Brian McDonald

Games & companies mentioned:

• Twisted Pixel Games
• Uber Entertainment
• Telltale Games
• Valiant Hearts (Ubisoft)
• Leisure Suit Larry: Magna Cum Laude
• Lumberjack Man (Film by Ed Kuehnel)
• Hunter: The Reckoning (High Voltage Software)
• The Last of Us (Naughty Dog)
• Lilo & Stitch (Disney Interactive)
• Maniac Mansion (LucasArts)
• Grim Fandango (LucasArts)
• Day of the Tentacle (LucasArts)
• Walking Dead (Telltale Games)
• Fables (Telltale Games)
• Psychonauts (Double Fine Productions)
• Firewatch (Campo Santo)
• Dying Light (Techland)

Jordan continues his insightful conversation with Lorne Lanning, co-founder of Oddworld Inhabitants and creator of the Oddworld series. Lorne dives deeper into Kickstarter campaigns and the realities of crowdfunding for games. He shares practical advice on gaining visibility, leveraging celebrity influence, and understanding the challenges of raising funds through platforms like Kickstarter. If you're an indie developer or considering crowdfunding for your game, this episode offers essential takeaways on strategy and execution.

• Strategies for Kickstarter success in game development
• The importance of a unique pitch and understanding your audience
• Lessons from successful and failed Kickstarter projects
• Securing funding and marketing your game idea effectively
• Lorne’s personal experiences and lessons from running crowdfunding campaigns
• How to balance business goals with creative vision
• The future of AR, VR, and other technologies in games

• Learn more about Jordan & Bright Black
• Listen on iTunes | Spotify (Support the show and leave a review)
• Visit www.playmakerspodcast.com for the full blog post and more!

00:00 Lorne’s experience with Kickstarter successes and failures

04:12 How to stand out and gain visibility on Kickstarter

09:10 The importance of leveraging a social media following for Kickstarter campaigns

13:36 The Kickstarter success of Exploding Kittens

16:56 Advice for game developers building unique game mechanics

22:00 Lorne's thoughts on AR and VR's future in gaming

24:07 Challenges developers face with publishing platforms

30:46 Nintendo's historical publishing policies and their impact

35:04 Final thoughts on maintaining quality and building a long-term fanbase

• Kickstarter
• Exploding Kittens
• Ori and the Blind Forest
• Cuphead
• Limbo
• Inside
• No Man’s Sky
• Pokémon Go
• Stranger's Wrath
• Abe’s Quintology:
• Abe’s Oddysee
• Munch’s Oddysee
• Oddworld: New 'n' Tasty!
• Oddworld: Soulstorm
• Abe’s Exoddus
• Farmville
• Nudge (book by Richard Thaler and Cass Sunstein)
• An Empire of Their Own: How the Jews Built Hollywood (book by Neal Gabler)
• It’s a Wonderful Life (film)

Jordan sits down with legendary game designer Lorne Lanning, co-founder of Oddworld Inhabitants and is best known for creating the Oddworld series, including Abe's Oddysee, Abe's Exoddus, Munch's Oddysee, Stranger's Wrath, and New 'n' Tasty!. In this first part of a two-part interview, Lorne discusses how he weaves artistic messages into his games. He also shares the secrets behind creating fan cultures that last for decades and dives into the philosophical and artistic influences driving his work. 

Jordan reflects on how Lorne's approach has personally inspired him to reconnect with his passion for creating meaningful entertainment. This episode will challenge listeners to make great entertainment that is also great art!

• Lorne's journey from fine arts to game development.
• How to embed deeper meaning in game design to create lasting impact.
• The concept of "Trojan horse pop" and using entertainment as a tool for societal reflection.
• How art can inspire societal change.
• How fan culture around media properties like Star Trek and Star Wars can inspire game development.
• Lorne’s views on balancing commercial success with creative integrity.

• Learn more about Jordan & Bright Black
• Listen on iTunes | Spotify (Support the show and leave a review)
• Visit www.playmakerspodcast.com for the full blog post and more!

04:03 How Lorne transitioned from visual effects supervisor to game creator

05:36 Lorne’s early experiences and intellectual influences

07:20 The importance of artistic messages in entertainment

10:38 Using pop culture as a "Trojan Horse" for deeper messages

17:16 Creating games that foster empathy and hope

22:36 Balancing art and business in the game industry

27:13 The challenge of ethical capitalism in the gaming industry

30:05 Why fan culture helps games stand the test of time

35:28 The role of morality plays in shaping enduring game worlds

39:02 Lorne’s thoughts on corporate power, individualism, and modern media

46:43 Entertainment as the campfire

• Oddworld Inhabitants: Learn more
• Oddworld Inhabitants (Lorne Lanning’s company)
• Abe’s Oddysee, Munch’s Oddysee, Stranger’s Wrath (Oddworld games)
• Star Trek, Star Wars, The Twilight Zone (inspirational media properties)
• 2001: A Space Odyssey, Red Dawn (film)
• Joseph Campbell’s Power of Myth (influence on Star Wars)
• Black Mirror, Clockwork Orange, Firefly (TV series)
• South Park, The Muppets, The Simpsons (examples of "Trojan horse pop")
• Animal Farm by George Orwell, The Mission of Art by a guy named Alex Gray (books)